TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:
THERAPIST: Good morning.
CLIENT: Morning. (pause) So, I went to bed by like 9:30 last night. James went to bed at like 2 or 3, which is not unusual for him, but I usually like to roll over and go back to sleep. But I woke up, and was up for like an hour. (pause) [0:01:00] (pause)
Thanks for yesterday.
THERAPIST: Sure.
CLIENT: I don’t feel like we’ve given it – like we needed to get to the hospital. Yeah. (pause)
THERAPIST: What hurts is that there was something about – things unfolded here, so I’m not sure what that (inaudible at 0:02:10) actually.
CLIENT: Yeah I think so. (pause) I’m not sure what either. You know in part, saying that like, “Okay, well I’ll talk to Chad tonight,” was sort of like a commitment that I had made. It’s like, okay, well I don’t – all of this off the table until at least that point.
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: So I could sort of take a break from it. (pause)
THERAPIST: When you say you were up for an hour, did you mean (pause) what happened? [0:03:16]
CLIENT: I mean like I stayed in bed, and sort of like you’re awake and thinking, but you’re not really awake enough to actually want to get up. (pause) I – (pause) It was strange, because like I was pretty calm, and pretty comfortable, and like not unhappy in that moment. [0:04:27]
But I was like nope, I still want to die. (pause) Yeah. (pause) [0:05:27] (pause) See I’m typically, I want it to be – (sigh) typically, I wanted everything set – I say no, I can’t do that. Just because I sort of imagine how that would play out in my head, and, you know, I had imagined peoples’ reactions, and I imagined what it would do to them, and (pause) I never know, like that makes me sad; like I feel sorry, but I also feel like I can actually control other peoples’ happiness. [0:06:58]
Which I feel like is probably a good life lesson in the long run, but maybe not that convenient for right now. (laughter) But there it is. (pause) [0:07:58]-[0:08:58] (pause) Yeah, I feel like I spend so much time trying to (pause) trying to derail my intuitive responses to things, because I feel like, you know, I come to think that my intuitive responses are not actually that good for me.
But, like I don’t know what self-preservation looks like right now. (pause) [0:10:00]-[0:11:00] (pause)
THERAPIST: Well I think there are some moments (pause) where you can send that over to me. [overlapping conversation at 0:11:15]. That’d be okay. Well, (sigh) I guess I’m thinking of yesterday when you were here, and it was becoming my decision about whether you went to the hospital or not.
And then, like I made the call for – (pause)
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: That decision may be too much for you right now. (pause)
CLIENT: Yeah, you know, in some ways I find that immature. [But it’s like, I don’t know how much I trust you.] (ph) (crying) (pause) [0:12:15] (pause) You doing okay?
THERAPIST: (sigh)
CLIENT: I have an itch on my back. (pause) [0:13:15] Thanks. I had flour on me when I came in the door.
THERAPIST: (chuckle) Okay.
CLIENT: (laughter) That’s a little embarrassing. (pause) (inaudible at 0:13:41) right now. (pause) (sigh) (crying) [0:14:41] (pause) (crying) I’m mean and awful. (crying) (pause) [0:15:41] (pause)
Okay, here’s what I mean. So yesterday, you said that, you know, you couldn’t fix this. But given time you could help, you thought, but you couldn’t fix this. And so I can see – I can see how this is going to go away this time; I can see how I’m going to feel better, eventually. I don’t know exactly how, it just – it happens.
I don’t see (pause) (crying) I don’t see a point at which I just stop being destroyed by this, and I don’t – (crying) I don’t know. (pause) [0:16:54] (pause) (sigh) You know, and I can sort of say – say like at eight-hour period, or two days, or two weeks, or you know, often just eight hours – but like I don’t (pause)
THERAPIST: Well what’s the point if it’s just going to keep coming back all the time?
CLIENT: Yeah. (pause)
THERAPIST: I mean putting aside the question (pause) how you – of your view of that at other times when you’re not feeling that? It’s very clear that when you are feeling this bad, you’re quite sure. This is never really going to be any different. [0:18:00] (pause)
Like this is a conviction that you have at these times. (pause) I guess what you’re really focused on at the moment is, like this point of difference between us at the moment, where I -
CLIENT: So like, if I trust you with those decisions, like why should I trust you with them?
THERAPIST: Ah-huh; in that I have this long-term view that’s quite different from yours.
CLIENT: Yeah. [0:19:22]-[0:20:22] (pause) (sigh)
THERAPIST: Well. (pause) [0:21:22] (pause) Okay. So, I mean I think there are three parties to this – these decisions; one is me, and the other is a part of you that’s quite determined to kill yourself. And then there’s the rest of you, or some other part, that feels variously I think. And that’s the part that puts you sort of that pushed it off in my hands; the part of you that wants to kill yourself, I don’t think trusts anybody.
CLIENT: Mm-mm. [0:22:49] (pause)
THERAPIST: And (pause) doesn’t feel (pause) like I would be acting in your interests if I didn’t let you die. (pause)
CLIENT: Yes. (pause)
THERAPIST: I think the only thing I can really (pause) do, or the only kind of relationship I can have with that part of you, is to acknowledge it, and to acknowledge it’s distrust, and anger, and (pause) importance. [0:24:12] (pause)
CLIENT: Mm-mm. (pause) [0:25:12] (pause) (sigh)
THERAPIST: What was your plan [for tonight?] (ph) (pause)
CLIENT: Well sort of just to have it. (pause) [Kind of] (ph) before work or after work. (pause) So – yeah. (inaudible at 0:26:17) Yeah, or something else. (pause) Probably after work. (pause) [0:27:17] (pause)
THERAPIST: Yeah, I think you’re really pissed. (pause)
CLIENT: Yeah. I am [upset right now.] (ph) You know (pause) [0:28:24] (pause) You know, I do trust you, and I can’t help but – I just feel like – (pause) I feel like that causes me suffering. (pause) I’d rather you know; I’d rather talk to you. (pause) [0:29:24] (pause) And that like – (pause) to me that feels like taking a short-term (feeling) (ph).
THERAPIST: Ah-huh. (pause)
CLIENT: There was a quiz on BuzzFeed that’s like, you know, the silly quizzes they have on there, “Which (inaudible at 0:30:01) character are you?” So this one is like, “What will your ultimate fate be?” And so you answer right; questions about what band you listen to and stuff. And at the end it says, “Ultimately, you will die.” (laughter) (pause) So guess if I take the really long way, it’s sort of mute. (laughter) But – yeah. (pause)
I don’t understand people who want to live forever. I mean they talked about like doubling the human lifespan; I don’t understand that. (pause) [0:31:01] (pause) I don’t understand – like I don’t understand theologians who are interested in the afterlife. Probably if it’d be a hurdle – (laughter)
THERAPIST: Might be. (pause) [0:32:03] (pause) Another thing with the part of you that (pause) really wants to die, and has always had, and really distrustful, (pause) it doesn’t like to talk much.
CLIENT: I know.
THERAPIST: More about like an (interaction) (ph). [0:33:08] (pause)
CLIENT: A little how I usually feel like – I talked to you about that, and you have to do something about it.
THERAPIST: Mm-mm. (pause) You mean like I knew how it felt?
CLIENT: (pause) Yeah. Eventually, you have to tell me no, you can’t kill yourself, in some way or another. (pause) (inaudible at 0:34:00) [I guess I’ll get along here.] (ph) (pause) Plus I feel like that’s sort of a shitty position for you. (pause) But not this part of me that wants to kill myself really cares very much.
THERAPIST: Yeah. It’s certainly been putting you in that position for years. (pause) I think.
CLIENT: (inaudible at 0:34:34) (pause) [0:35:34] (pause)
THERAPIST: All right, I’ll just answer quickly. I think you’re sort of – (pause) I think in terms of what you mean, that on one hand you feel that I (inaudible at 0:35:48), and on the other hand, not so much. (pause)
CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) (inaudible at 0:36:13), not mine to deal with. (pause) What happens today? (pause)
THERAPIST: Well, (pause) [0:37:13] I don’t know yet. I think I sort of had different (pause) thoughts at different moments that we’ve been talking. I mean (pause) there’s a way I think you’re actually quite relieved at the prospect yesterday of going to the hospital. I think that actually helped you feel better, or unclear or something.
CLIENT: Yeah, it did. (pause)
THERAPIST: In a way I guess, (pause) you know, I think the truth is now, there’s some extent to which this decision’s in my hands, and some extent to which it’s of course still in yours. I mean that’s just reality when you’re home. [0:38:23]
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: And I think that’s not true at the hospital. You know, frankly the decision there really is pretty much out of hands at that point, which I think is a relief, among other things. (pause) Then there’s, there are moments where I think like, you know, you’re telling me that you think you’ll tell me. (pause)
It can seem a little touch and go. (pause)
CLIENT: Yeah. Realistically, I’m like oh well. I hate it, and I don’t want to. (pause) [0:39:39]
(pause)
THERAPIST: I guess -
CLIENT: That’s a lot to ask. (inaudible at 0:40:12) (pause) And like deep down (pause)
THERAPIST: I want to make sure I’m clear, I assume you mean it feels like a lot to ask of you? (pause) Yeah. Yeah, I think it is. It puts an awful lot on you, if that’s what you mean. (pause) From that (pause) [0:41:39] you’d be [cared for] (ph) at the hospital also because you’re (relieved) (ph) you know.
CLIENT: Yeah. (pause)
THERAPIST: And – (pause) so let’s go that way.
CLIENT: Okay. (pause)
THERAPIST: Actually, I think that what you’ve just said, you’re actually on the same page. And I think you probably would call me; I think the risk isn’t huge there, but I do think it puts a lot on you. And I think (pause) it would be easier and more comforting in some ways, for you not to have to carry that for awhile.
CLIENT: Yeah. [0:43:05] (pause) Yeah, that does come as a relief.
THERAPIST: Okay. (pause) James up yet?
CLIENT: Probably not. (laughter)
THERAPIST: Okay.
CLIENT: I can get him up.
THERAPIST: Okay.
CLIENT: I guess I just wait in the waiting room?
THERAPIST: Yeah, do you want to call him from here, and then go over there?
CLIENT: Yeah. We he like call eventually, your office?
THERAPIST: Yeah. (pause)
CLIENT: Okay.
THERAPIST: You want to talk about it?
CLIENT: Yeah. Let me call James first. (pause)
THERAPIST: I’m just going to be sitting right at the window. (pause) [0:44:07]
CLIENT: “Hey sweetheart, it’s me. So I’m at Chad’s; she’s sending me to the ER for real this time. So, can I ask you to get up? (laughter) Okay. I’ll probably just hang out in the waiting room until you get here. The waiting room’s at Chad’s. Okay.”
Do you need to talk to James again?
THERAPIST: No, this time you need to [be evaluated] (ph) I think.
CLIENT: Okay. “Even this time, we need to be evaluated. So, you know, we can just go. Yeah. Okay, yeah, so take your time. Okay. Okay. Bye.”
Okay.
THERAPIST: If you like, I’m happy to talk to him after this a little more about why I’m deciding this way. It’s up to you, if it would make things easier for you.
CLIENT: I think it’s okay. You know, if you asked him questions, and he were to call you.
THERAPIST: No problem. And oddly -
CLIENT: Yeah. (pause)
THERAPIST: Let’s see, you could start with, you really can’t talk much about it right now, but unfortunately, (inaudible at 0:45:51). You can’t come in. Somehow, what do you think?
CLIENT: Yeah, no, (pause) I think that – and I guess we’ll just say that I don’t know about the rest of the week. I’ll try to be in touch –
THERAPIST: Later today.
CLIENT: Yeah. (pause)
END TRANSCRIPT
