TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:
CLIENT: Hi.
THERAPIST: Hi.
CLIENT: It always feels like a room for sitting down in rather than standing up in. (pause) (sigh) I still haven’t gotten the car fixed, which is mostly fine, except like both this week and last week, I’ve forgotten to tell Monica that we haven’t gotten the car fixed, until like the night before.
So it’d be like, “Oh, by the way.” And the thing there isn’t like – I can either take the subway or the bus, and both of them go pretty fast. But if I take the subway, Monica will usually drive down in the car; get the kids in the car, to like switch off with me, so that she doesn’t actually ride the bus to get down there; it’s like a mile or two away from the house. And I take the bus; it doesn’t get there by 9; it’s like 9:15. [0:01:17] (pause)
Just feeling I have my shit together. (pause) I still haven’t gotten my tax forms to James, or like figured out all the places that I’ve been tutoring this year. I don’t think it’s going to be that hard, because I think everywhere is with like – had been with a company or another, so that I should have the W2 forms. [0:02:02] (pause)
That’s what I meant like, he asked me for a long time ago, and sort of said, “Okay, I’ll put it in the back of my mind.” And like I went to the hospital, and hadn’t really gotten down to it. (pause)
I really don’t want to go today. But – (pause) [0:03:00]-[0:04:00] (pause) Even though I went to bed at like 9 last night; 9:30. (pause) It’s like trying to walk through mud all the time; just wears me out. (pause) (sigh) [0:05:00] (pause) It’s kind of like walking through mud, and that’s exactly right, because it’s just like my whole body, and then it’s like when I’m thinking, that’s like trying to walk through mud too. It’s – I don’t know. (pause)
THERAPIST: There’s like (pause) somebody turned on friction or something?
CLIENT: Yeah. (laughter) Yeah. (pause) [0:06:00]-[0:07:00] (pause) (sigh) I read on Facebook last night that someone tracked down one of [] camps in the desert. And like, there’re broken gen bottles, and car parts, and the campfire and everything. There’ talking about it as just this like huge find for contemporary archaeology, and a big deal.
I just sort of thought, man that’s sort of a shitty way to treat your camping place. (laughter) Oh whatever, just leave it in the desert; no big deal. I guess a lot of archaeology is predicated on the fact that humans were really shitty at cleaning up after themselves. (laughter) [0:08:30] (pause)
Jason got this job that’s [not working out.] (ph) It’s like an internship I think for [] (ph). It’s exciting; he didn’t think he was going to get it. (pause) [0:09:30] (pause)
But it’s funny that my dad got hit by a car on his bike.
THERAPIST: No, I didn’t know that.
CLIENT: Yeah, he’s okay, but like the bike is totaled. I think he’s pretty shaken up, and sort of, (Austin)’s (ph) is not really a city that’s easy on bikes; it’s not really designed for it. All of us would be on him; it’s like, Papa’s just so bad. The peripheral vision is such like he just doesn’t pay attention to the things around him, like I’m afraid to cross the street with him. [0:10:40]
THERAPIST: It would distract him?
CLIENT: Yeah. It seems like in this case, it was clearly like the woman who hit him’s fault, because she was looking for a cell phone, and just came around the corner, and bam. (pause) It’s weird; so Papa’s like commuting on a bike, which is the most dangerous thing that you can do pretty much anywhere in America.
Amanda is like an increasingly high level river, like white water kayaker, which the way she sort of was talking about it, as a matter of fact, they said, “Yeah, everyone who’s like a class 5; class 4 or 5 kayaker has a really big life insurance policy.” It’s just like it’s really hazardous; people die (inaudible at 0:11:35).
Jason’s like wilderness adventuring, which is probably the safest of any of it. (pause) I don’t know, I feel like I should be more worried about this; worried about people. But like, I’m most worried about Papa; Amanda I sort of say, “Well, you know, you know those are the risks that you’re taking, and you’ve decided it’s worth it.” And I’d much rather that she’d do that than want to do it and not do it.
Papa, I’m not sure he does know what the risks are. (pause) [0:12:45] (pause) I guess what I’m thinking is, it’s a little weird to be like the safe stay-at-home person, but to feel like I’m sort of in daily contemplation of my own mortality. (laughter)
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: I don’t know. (pause) (chuckle) The (inaudible at 0:13:22) that comes to mind is like, “Well Amanda’s taking up white water kayaking, but I’m really the one with the death wish. (laughter) (pause) That feels so a little melodramatic to me.
THERAPIST: Mm?
CLIENT: That feels so melodramatic to me. (pause) [0:14:34] (pause) I was talking with a couple of friends from church at this party, and one of them is a – she’s like an (inaudible at 0:15:39) professor, I want to say. And the other is – he was like a practicing psychologist for awhile, now he works for the church.
I don’t know how we got on the topic, but so we were talking about like mental illness, specifically within the academics setting. I was doing the least amount of talking, which tells you something about my friends. (laughter) I like them. And so Lionel, who’s the psychologist said, “Well, you know, when somebody’s suicidal, they’re terrified; it’s like they don’t actually want to die. I’m sort of like, “I’m going to really disagree with you there.” And then I stopped; it’s like, you know what, this is going to get too real for a party. [0:16:38] (laughter)
I guess what was surprising to me was that like I would have felt very comfortable continuing to talk about it; it was more like, I’m going to regret this in the morning. (laughter) I was a little drunk. Or I had been drinking. (pause) (inaudible at 0:17:12) (pause) (inaudible at 0:17:23). (pause)
It’s so weird, it’s like (sigh) for one ten-minute period to another, it feels like I will die if I keep feeling like this any longer. (crying) But I don’t; it just keeps going, and you know, this isn’t a new feeling, so I know that that’s what’s going to happen. Like I know that it just keeps feeling like this, and that eventually I sort of wake up and notice that (inaudible at 0:18:43) wasn’t so bad, but I can’t ever – like I can’t tell where that came from.
When it does get easier, I can’t always tell where it is, and it is (chuckle) really convincing. So like, but like this is going to kill me, that I can’t do this, but I have to. (pause)
THERAPIST: I imagine it’s really unbearable; it doesn’t feel like you can handle it for more than few more minutes.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: And in a way, I guess part of the worst part is that’s actually not true.
CLIENT: Yeah. (chuckle) Yeah. (pause) [0:19:50] (pause) I just go through my day, like you know, there’s part of me that thinks like, well, I’ll get up and get dressed. But I’ll be dead before I get to work. Or I’ll go to work, but I’ll be dead before I get home. But you have to – you can’t act like that’s the case. Like you can’t – you can’t just stop. (pause) [0:20:50]-[0:23:50] (pause)
THERAPIST: It did seem to me like, you know, maybe some of the stuff you were talking about yesterday has something to do with how you are feeling so awful.
CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) (sigh) Yeah, I think that’s right. (pause) [0:24:50] (pause) I feel like I’m in this precarious position, and it feels like James’s putting me through.
THERAPIST: It occurred to me also like that first you were talking about with maybe some of the things that you’ve been saying so far today are actually related to that, in a sense that (pause) I don’t think, you know, clearly you’re not far from knowing that or being in touch with what you were upset about yesterday. [0:25:47]
But I expect that most the time, you don’t connect those things with how awful you’re feeling?
CLIENT: Mm-mm.
THERAPIST: I mean you come in and sort of talk about ways you feel flaky or not together. I wonder if that’s in part a reference. You know, you may not be together; there’s like these things you’re really upset about, that you feel kind of distant, you know a bit distant from. And you just feel the upset, and then feel kind of shapeless, and (inaudible at 0:26:22) and unbearable. Then, you’re probably thinking about death, and not anticipating you’ll live through the next few minutes.
I wonder if that’s also like (pause) partly a comment on how you don’t feel like you can bear to think about some of the things that are so painful and upsetting. I mean with good reason, if they’re really painful and upsetting, I’m not saying you should be able to, I’m just saying, I wonder if some of, you know, in the last few minutes, your thoughts about, maybe they’re not in your thoughts, but dying and not being able to bear the next few minutes are in part for feeling closer to things; particular things that are so unbearably painful. [0:27:46]
CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) I tend to find it difficult to recall from week to week what we talk about in couples counseling. (sigh) (Are you surprised?) (ph) (laughter)
THERAPIST: (At times) (ph) it’s like in a way, you’re going to have, (sort of that you’re in a fog), in a way, like given how painful a (inaudible at 0:28:25). Then you want to be like, have I been here before?
CLIENT: (laughter) Yeah. Yeah. You know, I feel like after the point of couples counseling for me, it felt like I don’t want to talk about this stuff; I don’t want to think about it, and I won’t on my own. So it’s kind of thrown back in there. (pause)
It feels like (pause) it feels like James would say, “Well, there’s going to be some sort of enormous and catastrophic loss for you. So either you’re going to lose Chad, or you’re going to lose me, or you’re going to like lose your whole support network, or mostly just like Chad and James. And if you can keep it together, and get it together, maybe you won’t lose either of us.” [0:29:52]
But – (pause) (sigh) but I can’t keep it together feeling like this sort of loss is just breathing at the back of my neck. And so it feels like the more I sort of come apart because of that, the more I’m doing it to myself. (crying) (pause)
THERAPIST: Like the eminence of the loss is so terrifying that you come apart, which brings about -
CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) Yeah. (pause) (inaudible at 0:31:39) At one point, talking to Dr. (inaudible at 0:31:46), and she’s being pretty (confident,) (ph) and us saying like, well I want to have kids eventually, and like we’re really far away from that. (inaudible at 0:32:02) that’s what I want in the future.
And she’s like, “Well if you don’t have kids, you know what is going to be the cause of that, right?” And I sort of like, “Well, James and I are having a tough time, and all this stuff.” She’s like, “No, like suicide. That would, like you know, if you kill yourself, you can’t have kids.”
But I don’t know where I’m coming from, but like something that feels like – it would feel much more bearable for me to just cut myself off from things, and just to make like – like just waiting for it to happen to me. And it’s like the worst of all possible cases, if that’s the words. (crying) Like waiting to lose people.
THERAPIST: I imagine feeling kind of paralyzed, but stopping and watching it happen.
CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) But like I know, it’s like knowing that I could stop it, and then not (inaudible at 0:33:26). (crying) Like, I’m doing something wrong, and I can’t tell what it is.
THERAPIST: I see. (pause) [0:34:26] (pause) So, I think the problem of understanding this is like, the situation that you’re in, anticipating losing (inaudible at 0:34:52), and feeling like you’re going to make it happen, or you’re not going to be able to stop it happening, and you’re just going to watch it happen; kind of pass away I guess, like that’s sort of one of the most harrowing situations you can imagine.
CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) Right now anyway.
THERAPIST: Sure.
CLIENT: (laughter) (pause)
THERAPIST: I guess another aspect of it is, it seems almost predetermined and at the same time, in a way it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. Like clearly it makes emotional sense, and feels very much like that’s what’s happening. And there are some ways that like – there are some reasons in the world that you can think of, that would cause that. [0:36:21]
But I guess my impression is, it doesn’t seem like it’s entirely about that.
CLIENT: It doesn’t seem like it adds up; yeah.
THERAPIST: But it feels inevitable.
CLIENT: Yeah. (pause)
THERAPIST: And to credit like my point is, not to say that you are not being realistic, but just to say that (pause) it’s mysterious. You feel out of commission, and not clear why; but you do, I’m not doubting it, it’s just – [0:37:18]
CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) Yeah. And you know, it’s like when James has said the things like I think about leaving sometimes. It’s like I sort of think about I always knew this would happen. (pause) Yeah. It’s like the exact expected worst today. [0:38:18] (pause)
And when we talk about moving, it’s like I could say, no, I have to stay in Boston, but I can’t say that. And that like trap, if it’s like the exact expected worst day (pause) it’s (nonsense) (ph) that I’m going to lose you. But I’m going to have to act like it’s not that [big of a deal.] (ph) (pause) [0:39:16]-[0:41:16] (pause) (crying)
THERAPIST: If James would be close at all really to knowing what that meant or looked like (pause)
CLIENT: Yeah. (pause)
THERAPIST: Maybe I wouldn’t need him?
CLIENT: I hope not. (pause) [0:42:16] (pause)
THERAPIST: Like in that way, it’s kind of unclear whether I could understand or appreciate what I mean to you. (pause)
CLIENT: It feels like it doesn’t matter whether you do or not.
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: Like that’s not – (pause) yeah, it feels like it would be better if you didn’t. Even if you did, it’s not like that would change anything. (pause) [0:43:50] It might just make you feel worse. (pause)
THERAPIST: Because have you done anything that would why that would make you feel better? I mean in the same way that like if it’s pretty that James’s not getting that really hurt, maybe it’s because I’d be gone anyway.
CLIENT: Yeah, I don’t know. (pause)
THERAPIST: We should stop now.
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