TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: remember.

CLIENT: I’ll try; I’ll remind you.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: Okay. But like I find it very – I don’t like looking at the clock.

THERAPIST: Yeah. I don’t mind checking it and making sure we’re done.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: You know, I also -

CLIENT: Actually, do you actually – do you have 10 open on Monday?

THERAPIST: Yeah, I do.

CLIENT: Because that would work this week, because Ryan Evan’s out of town.

THERAPIST: Okay. You want that?

CLIENT: Yeah; that sounds great.

THERAPIST: Okay, so now I can [overlapping conversation at 0:00:31]

CLIENT: I guess I’ll take it then. (laughter)

THERAPIST: All right, that I’m going to write down, because now I’m on, you know, whatever. (pause)

CLIENT: Can I ask you to send me a text or something?

THERAPIST: Yeah. (pause) Today, so Monday is the 31st I think. Okay, and I forget, do you have an iPhone?

CLIENT: No.

THERAPIST: Okay, that means I can’t just text you from my phone.

CLIENT: Okay; here, you know, I’m just going to (inaudible at 0:01:12) (chuckle)

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: I don’t have a pen on me, so I usually have one.

THERAPIST: Oh I have one.

CLIENT: Oh yeah. (pause) Thanks.

THERAPIST: Sure. (pause)

CLIENT: So I did go to work today also, so I just got off work. (pause) (sigh) It’s weird being physically sick, because like it’s a lot worse to be depressed. But or mostly like, [all this] (ph) really suck. (laughter)

THERAPIST: Were you at work yesterday?

CLIENT: Yeah. I just got a (inaudible at 0:02:08). And so, it’s much worse to be depressed, but I still have to get up and go to work. It’s actually better for me if I do, because I usually end up like pulling out of it for a while. I’m like why can’t I control this? (laughter) Realizing that no I really just have to take the day off for this thing that seems really minor.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: And it’s just weird.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah like being depressed is so much heavier.

CLIENT: Yeah. (laughter)

THERAPIST: And so much harder, and yet like that you have to (inaudible at 0:03:02) at work. But being sick in a way that’s a drag, but not as bad.

CLIENT: Yeah. I just feel like really guilty about it, I just felt really bad, and I thought for a while that I was going to have to take Wednesday off, or Thursday off too, because I was still felt bad on Thursday, I just went into work anyway. But I thought like I wasn’t going to be able to go in, and so (sigh) I just felt really guilty.

Well I can’t stand up long enough to take a shower, then I probably (chuckle) shouldn’t go into work. (chuckle) (pause) I think it was like a bug; no big deal. [It’s fucking kids] (ph). (laughter) It’s like my immune system missing like snaps back into gear. Like, oh here are all the things you missed, and then (laughter) intervening 15 or 20 years when you weren’t around kids. [0:04:25] (pause)

Kim was – she drove me to the train station just now, and so we were talking. She was talking about her job, which she has to like mediate between people right now, and that’s frustrating and hard for her. She’s talking about their communications director being sort of the weak link, and not that good at stuff, and somebody else like (dubbing) (ph) for a spot.

It’s like well, if both of them pan out, I’m a really good writer. (chuckle) Then I was like, “Oh fuck, I shouldn’t have said that.” (pause) So then I sent her a text later when I got off the train, and be like “Just so you know, I’m not actually looking for another job. And if I do decide to, then I’ll give you a lot of notice.” [0:05:36] (pause)

Yeah, I’m starting to be ready to be looking for another job. And then at the same time, I’m like actually, it feels more like I’m ready to have another job, more that I feel like I’m starting to really want to. (laughter)

THERAPIST: Starting to feel you’re done with this one?

CLIENT: A little bit. I mean, well it’s hard, because today was a really good day. And like in some ways, it really gives me things I really need out of my work, and in some ways, it really doesn’t give me things that I need. So like, how do you balance that?

You know, I really like that I’m working for a person, and not for a company; that’s really important. I was thinking about this just in terms of like sleeping. Well I’ll maybe start looking; like I will tell Kim when I start looking for a job, and not when I find a job, because it’ll make her life easier to have – she’ll need a lot of time to find somebody else. And because since she’s not a corporation, I know that my telling her that I’m thinking about another job will not get me fired. [0:07:01]

But there are not very many jobs where I could do that. And I feel like that’s sort of general honesty and important to me. Ordinarily, it seems like it’s hard for me to shut down (laughter) so maybe it would be best to like work places where I can be that honest, because I like to be that honest regardless. I don’t know.

I miss teaching; I miss (sigh) (pause) I miss doing something a little bit bigger in scope. Amanda is applying for teaching jobs this year, so she called me to talk about that yesterday. I had a hard time like; I had a hard time talking with her about it. I just was so jealous. I feel like I’m really jealous of a lot of people right now, and I don’t like that very much. [0:08:24]

So there’s this couple, that they were undergrad – they were undergraduates at William & Mary when I was a grad student there, and they were in the Tae Kwon Do Club; they’re both like just very very good at tae kwon do; like really really good. And they’re cute as a button; with all that, just super cute; very sweet people, and super religious.

They got married like right out of undergrad, and moved to Denver, and they just bought a house. And I keep fucking bumping into them on the train. (laughter) I’m like come on. Is this city not big enough? (laughter) I don’t think they even – like I don’t think they live around here. (laughter) It’s just like – [0:09:22]

So yesterday I was coming home, and I went to get on the train, and they were like sitting in the compartment (inaudible at 0:09:33) waiting for it to start. And I was – just keep on going. (laughter) (pause) [0:10:33] (pause)

I took (inaudible at 0:10:42) to a like toddler place at the – (coughing) you okay?

THERAPIST: Yeah, I don’t know what’s up; yeah, I think I’m fine though.

CLIENT: at the Boys and Girls Club, and (sigh) she was like having sort of a tough day, like much (clamere) (sp?) and shyer than she often is. She’s not really a social butterfly most the time, like she’s sort of wary of strangers both small and large. But then she was like playing some, and not playing some, and I was trying to (bust) (ph) in there to help her. But also tried not to like follow her around all the time, because that’s not actually good for her. And I just looked around and it’s pretty full; I just thought – I just feel like this is a room full of adults trying with more or less success to look like they’re not bored. (laughter)

And then I felt sort of bad. (laughter) [0:11:53] (pause) I feel like the play groups are explicitly so that you can send the kids off by themselves, and like talk to grownups; like this works better. (chuckle) But I wouldn’t do all those, because I’m shy about talking to like Denver moms. (pause) (sigh) [0:12:53] (pause)

THERAPIST: Yeah, there’s some days you feel like (inaudible at 0:13:03) for them, and (pause) critical of them, and anxious and guilty about that.

CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) Yeah. (pause) I think super intimidated also though. Like I just (pause) (sigh) yeah, yeah, it sort of feels like being in school again, and like I had a lot more resources to deal with feeling snubbed, but I definitely feel snubbed, even when I’m not actually being snubbed. [0:14:16] (pause) Yeah. (pause)

THERAPIST: I think you’re talking about feeling intimidated. Like at first I thought you maybe were like putting them up here, because it was like safer in a way than feeling unequal toward and being critical of them. But I actually, that’s something it’s not, it is more like (pause) like they have some stuff that you really don’t have. [0:15:29]

CLIENT: Yeah; self-assurance is what comes to mind. (laughter) (pause) Yeah. (pause) Also like (pause) there aren’t that many of Kim’s friends who I don’t feel like they’re patronizing me a little bit when they talk to me. It just [may be what it is.] (ph) And I’m supposed to vary between feeling like they’re right to be patronizing, and (sigh) feeling quite critical of them for it. [0:16:49] (pause)

Part of me is like, “God, I really don’t want this to be my job.” That’s why I’m taking care of kids, because I don’t want to be like schmoozing with people; like that’s not what I want my job to be. (chuckle) (pause) I mean I can switch with kids; I’m good at that. (pause) [0:17:49] (pause)

Yeah, but I’m like there’re a lot of days where I can barely do this job. (sigh) (pause) Yet I want to be doing something bigger in scope, but it doesn’t – it doesn’t seem like that good of an idea. (pause)

THERAPIST: I guess you really don’t feel like much doing this job.

CLIENT: You know, not really. (pause) I mean – [0:18:53] (pause)

THERAPIST: I think sometimes you’re treated that way.

CLIENT: Yeah sometimes. Well, and in some ways, it makes it easy when people treat me that way, because then I can be like, “Well, fuck you; this is important work and it’s not easy.” And I do believe that it’s both important and not easy [in this job] (ph). (pause) I don’t know. I don’t – yeah, I just don’t talk about enough. [0:19:29] (pause)

THERAPIST: I can imagine for you to [establish a link] (ph) with, you know, like other things that you wanted to pan out [in grade school most obviously] (ph), but -

CLIENT: But teaching is hard.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And I did apply to a lot of places last year.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: I’m like, I don’t remember that time well enough to know what (inaudible at 0:20:08) is like, or why nothing worked. But I feel like it could be that (sigh) I just felt puffy; it could be that I just didn’t -

THERAPIST: I remember what you told me -

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: remembered a few good things. One was (inaudible at 0:20:32) after sending about five resumes out, and not hearing good things back, you decided that like you were completely going about this entirely the wrong way. Now I’m teasing a little, but like it was a pretty small number of resumes, and you were sure that they’re not working out meant that like, you were really fucking the whole thing up.

The other thing I remember actually was it may be more substantial is, it was really tight, like you’d heard about that when [Jenny quit] (ph) with a job, you applied, and like they hired somebody with a PhD in that field or something. So it’s like –

CLIENT: Obviously that was [psycho thing] (ph). Yeah.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah. You do things that like the independent school job market has just changed in the last five years.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah, that’s what I meant. But I can sort of figure that out, but it doesn’t – (sigh) (pause)

THERAPIST: That was the other thing I remember. (pause) I know it’s a job, but it’s a [angry issue] (ph) thing. So residential like a private school who just has like (audible at 0:21:59), so like an hour away from here.

CLIENT: With (school?) (sp?)

THERAPIST: (School) (sp?). That’s right, yeah.

CLIENT: Okay. I forgotten about it entirely until James reminded me when I [kind of was depressed] (ph) (inaudible at 0:22:10).

THERAPIST: I don’t remember why you didn’t get that one, but I remember you feeling -

CLIENT: I think I wasn’t the right – like it wasn’t my field; I was applying for like a history position or something.

THERAPIST: Yeah, I remember it being something that felt like kind of insulting or a little more like -

CLIENT: Yeah, I think, or what James said at least was that it was a history; it came down to me, and somebody with a history degree. And they said like, we going to (ditch) (ph) this person, please reapply, because like we’re interested in you. But, I don’t know. (pause) [0:23:10] (pause) (sigh)

THERAPIST: I know you’ve had a lot; you’ve worked very hard.

CLIENT: What’s that?

THERAPIST: You sent out a lot of resumes; that was very hard.

CLIENT: Yeah. (sigh) Yeah, I don’t – I don’t really want to that again right now.

THERAPIST: Yeah. (pause) [0:24:10] (pause)

CLIENT: Man, I just feel like crap. (laughter) Candace said she’d (coughing) [ended up] (ph) going through this program at University of Maryland; it’s like a post-master’s program, but it’s like a – it has some certificate or something, but it’s like a three-year summer program. But it’s for people who already have a master’s degree, and are like working toward like a spiritual direction or a ministry.

So it’s basically – exactly for her, like for what she’s doing now. But she talked about going there and everyone being like really impressed that she had a master’s from William & Mary in theology. Like for what she’s doing, that is the best degree you can have.

But it’s just like, oh yeah, I remember that. But like that was kind of a big deal program for the very small field that is like religious theology and (inaudible at 0:25:31) studies; like yeah, that’s as good as it gets. (pause) I am sort of not wanting to remember that, but I just feel so bad. (pause)

Or like there’s too much cognitive dissonance there between – (pause) (sigh) between having done anything that are valuable and feeling, just so (inaudible at 0:26:35) feeling. (pause) (sigh) (background noise)

(inaudible at 0:27:17) they didn’t think about it and look at it. And I can sort of say, well okay. (pause) The thing that I’m uncomfortable with is the idea that I’m not a failure, and so I just need to sort of lean into that, and apply for things, and figure out what I want to be doing and then go for it. (pause)

But I’m not sure that really helps. Like (pause) something like that the mind sets, that it’s so stating that takes all the energy that it would take me to do things. (chuckle) (pause)

THERAPIST: If you’re not a failure, does that make a lot of this so sad? [0:28:41] (pause)

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah, I hope there could be a reason. (pause) (crying) [0:29:41]-[0:30:41] (pause) I’m (inaudible at 0:31:36). I slept a lot this week; I’m still tired. I just don’t want to be tired. (pause) I hate saying that; it sounds really (white noise) (inaudible at 0:31:59). (pause) (sigh)

But I don’t know. I don’t really like you knowing that I feel sorry for myself. (pause) But that’s hard to say that. (pause) [0:33:08] (pause) Amanda asked me if I wanted to direct a summer camp at a church retreat center in Texas this summer. You know, like the place [grew up] (ph) like at camp, she’s worked there the last couple of summers, and they’re looking for people.

I said yeah, maybe. I don’t know if the logistics would work, but it’s sort of exactly like what I would like to be doing, so – (sigh) (pause) She told me about it, and like my first impulse was just to like shut it down as hard as possible. Then it’s like, “No, no, Tanya. You really actually do want this job.” (laughter) [0:34:24] (pause)

THERAPIST: Why did you want to shut it down, you know? Was it for like leaving Denver? Or for not wanting to move out there? Or -

CLIENT: I think it was like, I felt well, there’s no way I could do this, even though I felt like, there’s no way that I could like spend time with James, or there’s no way that I could take time off of work, and just knowing my life would be in this place where I could do it at that point, and if I like think too hard about not being able to do this thing that I want, then I will just be heartbroken. (pause) I do have to actually see if I can do it first. [0:35:38]

THERAPIST: I see. (pause)

CLIENT: It’s funny, I don’t think that much about like what you can tell from my manner or not. I guess I always sort of assumed that like when things are really, it’s like screaming in here when I’m quiet. And when I’m moderately bad, it’s like shouting. But I guess it’s not necessarily (chuckle) the case. [0:36:40] (pause)

THERAPIST: Yeah, I guess (pause) (coughing) (inaudible at 0:37:18), I can’t I mean at the moment (pause) like (pause) (inaudible at 0:37:34). And I had a sense that it’s overwhelming, and painful, and you’re picking your way fairly carefully around what you can and cannot sort of think about – about it. But I don’t have the sense that things are really really bad.

CLIENT: No. (pause) [0:38:34]-[0:39:34] (pause)

THERAPIST: I imagine part of what this – part of the way this goes [I’m listing] (ph) is that mostly you seem very sad; like you sort of I think mostly move more towards feeling like sad, or you mentioned you know, you’d be heartbroken. Which I think is probably scarier than focusing on the part where you feel like a failure. (pause)

CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) [0:40:34] (pause)

THERAPIST: Probably partly, and I think about it, because (pause) think that rather than like a failure, (although) (ph) it may seem a little closer to me. [0:41:40] (pause)

CLIENT: Yeah, I mean I think that (pause) it felt right there, is that I was asking you for something, but without realizing that I was, or wanting to, and that you gave it to me anyway, and that was really scary. I think that was really scary, so (inaudible at 0:42:46). (laughter)

THERAPIST: Got you. (pause)

CLIENT: (sigh) (pause)

THERAPIST: Well we should stop.

CLIENT: Okay. Yeah.

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