TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: Hi.

CLIENT: Hi. So it’s been a very visiting sort of weekend for me.

THERAPIST: Oh. Did I mention I was going to be away?

CLIENT: You did then I forgot. When are you going to be away again?

THERAPIST: You forgot; I forgot I mentioned it. I’m going to be away Saturday afternoon, a week from Friday. So that’s the 18th and then I will be away Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday that following, which I think is the 21st, 22nd and 23rd. And, that’s right, you mentioned working as usual. Do you want me to text it to you?

CLIENT: I’ll just write it. I’ll write it down.

THERAPIST: And you mentioned you’re working as usual that following Thursday, which I think is the 24th. [00:01:02]

CLIENT: Yes, so you’re away the 18th through the 24th basically?

THERAPIST: The 18th through the 23rd, although we don’t meet on Thursday. Are you working as usual on the 18th?

CLIENT: That’s a Friday?

THERAPIST: Is it Good Friday?

CLIENT: This coming Sunday is Palm Sunday so Friday after that is Good Friday.

THERAPIST: Right, which is the one where -

CLIENT: So we’re not working but I wouldn’t be able to come in.

THERAPIST: Okay. Great.

CLIENT: We have church.

THERAPIST: No that makes sense. I remember [inaudible at 00:01:39].

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: But I had to ask because I’m not leaving until later in the day. That’s why I asked.

CLIENT: Okay, thanks. If you have any time open in the morning that may be good.

THERAPIST: All right. I’ll let you know. So it’s been a visiting sort of weekend.

CLIENT: [Laughs] Thanks. So Geoffrey, my law teacher, is in town, or was in town this weekend. [00:02:11]

THERAPIST: He was a grad student at Brown and is working at Brown?

CLIENT: Yes, he’s super. He’s a very dear person but he sort of has a couple of tracks that he runs on and he just sort of runs on them constantly. And so we basically just have the same conversations every time we meet, which most of the time I really enjoy it but for the last couple of years they’ve been very painful conversations for me. So that was tough. [00:02:43]

So we he’s also, he wants to spend all the time talking and he’s very sort of slow moving. So we said let’s have lunch. We’ll meet up on Sunday after church and have lunch and it took four hours. And I hadn’t thought to say oh we have this other thing we have to go to at 2:00 so it was a long time. And then I lent him a book. I was talking about using a new Hebrew textbook that has come out in the last couple of years. And he wanted to see it so I lent it to him. And he was leaving this morning so I said well I’ll come by and get it from you. And he said we could have breakfast and I said I’ll get back to you on that one. [00:03:41]

So I did not have breakfast with him but I came by and we had a cup of tea and then we talked for a while and it was just a lot of the same. And every time he says so if you guys end up staying here do you think you would go back to Brown, and I have to explain why no, no I’m really not going to every single time. And it’s [real painful] (ph). I don’t know. I miss it. [00:04:32]

And then at church yesterday there was so usually there’s usually a 6:00 service and then an 8:00 service and usually a sandwich or soup-supper between them. And I’m one of the people that’s supposed to set that up or be in charge of that. And the other person basically I got stuck with that job because nobody else would do it. [00:05:24]

THERAPIST: Congratulations.

CLIENT: Yes, thanks. I didn’t have the strength of will to say no, I won’t be in charge of this. And it’s just more like I think it’s really important that we do it and so if I think it’s important, I’ve got to be willing to make it happen. And Sean who’s the guy who sort of organized, who sort of brought it back and organized it, is, he’s a great guy but he really, he has to talk about something three or four times before he feels comfortable actually doing it. I you know it’s important that we do this but it’s really not a big deal in some ways. [00:06:07]

So I got there last night and I was supposed to set up the sandwiches and there weren’t any sandwiches because the place hadn’t delivered them. And so, and then we eventually found them because the catering company had delivered them to a different church building that was three blocks away. And so we got those but then Camilla said oh and there’s going to be 20 to 30 heads coming in. So they’re coming for the 8:00 service so can we feed them too? So we ran out to get some pizzas. And it was, there was no world in which any of this was a big deal. The worst-case scenario is people don’t have anything to eat; it’s going to be okay. [00:07:00]

I’m rife on that very frame because I could say okay we’ll fix this. Okay, let’s do this. But it was very funny to sort of I was sort of in the mindset of we decide and then we do it and then we’re done. And Sean was very much in the mindset of oh well I’m going to come over and then consult and then we’ll talk about it some more and then I’m going to get fussy with Camilla about not telling us about these people beforehand. Are we sure this is going to be okay? I don’t think this is going to be okay. I said it’s okay.

He sort of really wanted to talk with Camilla and Chuck, the priest, about it and it was 10 minutes before they had to go upstairs and do the service so I said they can’t do this right now. This is not but I don’t know. Plus as an aside I spent most of the evening running around and fixing things and then running around and talking to people. I’m not really talkative, but good. I don’t know. [00:08:25]

THERAPIST: Because you made stuff happen?

CLIENT: Yes, yes. It’s good to be faced with a problem and be able to say okay well this is the solution and then we can do it kind of.

I had to question our credit card debt. It’s less easy to see what solution there is. Yes, I get, I just get overwhelmed with the money stuff. We’ve spent 1/3 of our income last year on therapy and I don’t know. It’s I just get so angry about this situation. I’m so angry that this is where we are and it’s not my fault. It’s not my fault that I couldn’t work for a few months and that we put a lot of money on credit cards because that’s what they’re for is emergencies. But now we can’t get out of that. [00:10:06]

It’s really not James’s fault but he’s the one who has to deal with it and I can’t deal with it. Realistically he would be the one who would want to deal with it anyway. That’s how he rolls. But I don’t know, I just don’t -

THERAPIST: Yes, there’s no, family or article or even [inaudible at 00:10:43] for gratitude. And if you were teaching there would have been.

CLIENT: Yes. [Pause] I just feel like we’re stuck. [00:12:01]

[Pause]

So after this I’m going to have tea with Joshua, he’s the friend from [] so we’ll see. I haven’t seen him anyway in almost a year. He’s just sort of out of the blue sent me an e-mail [inaudible at 00:14:09] so. Not the worst timing; maybe not the greatest. I don’t know what good timing would be. [00:14:25]

THERAPIST: I don’t know. Maybe that’s your point a bit about the money.

CLIENT: I don’t know. I don’t know whether I could’ve applied for Disability. I actually, I didn’t look into it mostly because I wasn’t well enough to look into it. I didn’t have the energy to do anything. I don’t know. [00:15:03]

THERAPIST: I mean I guess I meant what I said in our meeting [inaudible at 00:15:17] that okay you had started by saying this happened and it wasn’t my fault, both that you couldn’t be earning money and you were having to spend so much on therapy, at least that how I understood what you said. And I don’t know what I intended to say was something like and yes it would’ve you were in a situation where you didn’t have any of that kind of thinking that had you happened by chance to get another one you would have had a [starting point] (ph). [00:16:09]

CLIENT: Yes, no that was my point. I don’t know where to go from there. It’s a lot more painful to think of it as not being my fault than it is to think of it as somehow being my fault.

[Pause]

And now I feel like okay now I need to either be spending less or I need to be making more. And I can’t really be spending less; I just can’t be. And I don’t, we’ve already pretty much pared down our budget as low as it gets. We could not buy groceries from local places anymore and spend less on food that way but that would not be that much of a difference. And I can’t be making more until I know where we’re going to be. [00:19:07]

I feel like it’s my fault and I can’t fix it. I don’t know if I feel like it’s my fault but I definitely feel like it’s mine to fix but I can’t do it.

THERAPIST: [inaudible at 00:19:30]?

CLIENT: I don’t know.

THERAPIST: Like it’s some of your responsibility?

CLIENT: Yes.

[Pause] [Crying]

THERAPIST: I guess I wonder how much, why you chose one or need to be taken care of?

CLIENT: Sorry, I didn’t hear the first part of it. [00:24:06]

THERAPIST: Sure. I guess I’m wondering how much this is upsetting because it’s hard to actually to want or to need to feel taken care of. I’m thinking about both the money and the treatment.

CLIENT: I don’t know it’s sort of both. It’s hard for me to say, to continue to say no I need and I deserve to be taken care of, to be treated like that isn’t negotiable. It’s sort of this constant thing that I have to keep fighting. [00:25:28]

But I also feel like I’m getting to the point where I can start taking care of myself. I could, I have things to offer but I’m sort of stuck in this place where I can’t, where I’m just dependent on -

THERAPIST: I see, because of the situation and not knowing where or when you’re going to move?

CLIENT: Yes. And also the things that I’m good at not really being things that people tend to pay for or, yes. Geoffrey would just say why don’t you just go back to teaching? You’re a natural teacher. And I said well I know but it’s not that easy to find a job. And I just hate having to have that conversation over and over again. I don’t know why I can’t, why I haven’t found a job. And I haven’t been trying so it’s not it’s more I don’t know. [00:26:56]

THERAPIST: It seems to me that I can’t tell if this is part of what’s painful or not but that he might make you feel like you’re fucking up. First of all you should obviously be at Brown. Second of all if not what the hell’s the matter with you that you couldn’t find a teaching job, what’s going on there? In other words it’s not what he’s literally saying; it is where he’s coming from as far as he goes. And I don’t know if what he’s saying about teaching or not but I imagine what he is about makes you feel that way. [00:27:38]

CLIENT: Yes, yes. In his world I don’t know it seems to me like he doesn’t, he just doesn’t seem to have much of a sense of how hard it could be to find a job in his field or what it might mean not have enough money to live on, what that might feel like. The lawyer I talked to you about is teaching Hebrew and that was the first thing. I really like this; I really would love to do this. I want to find somebody to pay me to do it but they’re not going to. They’re not those jobs aren’t really there.

And he said well you know what most of the teaching I’m doing is volunteer and that’s just so rewarding in these ways. And I said yes I know. It is rewarding but I need to be making enough money to live on. [00:28:48]

THERAPIST: Then there’s this other way that’s not very rewarding at all, yes.

CLIENT: And, yes, and so he thinks less of me for being tired of living and for wanting to be paid for what I’m doing. And also it’s hard because he does believe in me so much. He believes that I’m so capable and so smart and such a good teacher and so he doesn’t understand why I’m not doing that or using that. [00:29:51]

THERAPIST: Is it true? Sounds like you don’t either. That it doesn’t make sense to you either? [00:30:17]

CLIENT: [Crying] Yes. There’s a part of me obviously that thinks that’s bullshit and can’t do anything and imposturous and all of that, but I’m smart enough to know when I’m the smartest person in the room; I can tell. And I can tell that I’m really good at these things and I can’t understand. I can’t make a complete picture.

It’s sort of like I was talking with Candace last night about avoiding stuff. We know this guy that we went to William & Mary with. He’s a decent enough person but he gets pretty solidly uninspired. That’s just who he is. And so he’s been writing for all of these sort of online Catholic journals and publications and he sort of just started off being a regular contributor to that other place. [00:31:56]

And so I’ve been sort of pushing Candace to blog more because I say Candace you need to be better than him. Nobody wants to hear what he has to say if they can hear what you have to say. And I know it’s not either or; that’s very ungenerous of me and all of that but there it is. She’s just a lot smarter and a much better writer and a lot more interesting. [00:32:35]

I don’t know. I can’t make that make sense. Even when I can track down the reason which is basically that Mark’s made it his job to get these jobs. He decided he wanted these and he’s gone after them and Candace hasn’t really done that yet. It just doesn’t, it still doesn’t come together for me. Also he’s a man and he’s white. [00:33:25]

THERAPIST: He’s got those things going for him.

CLIENT: Yes, yes. Oh God I got so pissed off at Calvary when I realized so they had this lecture series, people coming in to talk about the Old Testament and read the Bible. And we’ve had five speakers and there’s one person of color and one woman and they’re the same person. And she came and she talked about the Book of Ruth, which let’s be honest, it’s the least important part of the Bible. You know it’s like -

THERAPIST: I don’t know the important parts.

CLIENT: Okay, well I mean it’s like Torah, Nevi’im, Ketuvim, the Torah and the prophets and the writings. The writings are the stuff that came last and the stuff that’s sort of peripheral to the central Biblical message. I think that’s the most interesting stuff personally. And so I said well you knew that you had to have some minority people but it just feels like you’re just checking off your boxes and then getting down to the real stuff, which is the white man basically. [00:34:33]

So there’s that. And I don’t think anybody who was making that decision noticed that that was what, that’s what was happening, but that’s sort of exactly the point.

[Pause]

I remember once when I was [inaudible at 00:36:13] I was eleven or twelve at school and everybody was doing an art project. At the end of it I said I think I like mine the best and my classmates said you’re terrible, basically you’re a terrible person. You’re saying that you’re better than us. I said no, I don’t think it is the best I just like it the best. They didn’t really get that and I felt bad. [00:36:43]

[Pause]

[inaudible at 00:37:57]

THERAPIST: I guess I don’t know what to say. I mean one thing is I mean I guess this sort of is Geoffrey’s thing in Geoffrey’s world where you also live a little bit as well in a way. This stuff that’s happening with you and teaching [inaudible at 00:41:32] just doesn’t make sense. And I don’t know I guess I think that might be because that you flux (ph) or flattens the world a bit and doesn’t kind of admit or acknowledge things like depression or lots of other stuff. But I mean you’re talking about a lot more than that so I’m not sure what else to say about it. [00:42:34]

[Pause]

CLIENT: I feel like this is happening a lot recently. I’m just feeling like I can’t put things together in a way that makes sense to me. I guess the last week I’ve been, aside from today, I’ve been pretty cheerful and pretty very high energy and it’s hard. But I’ve also been sort of more aware than usual in that when I’m like that my picture of the world is pretty limited. I can’t remember what it’s like when I’m not like that. And I don’t know, I can’t fit things together somehow.

THERAPIST: We should stop now. [00:44:32]

END TRANSCRIPT