TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: With his concerns which I only had... I got in earlier today to listen to the first ten seconds of.

CLIENT: Oh.

THERAPIST: And it's, if you want to talk about that, then I can listen to the rest of it. Unless you talked to him as well.

CLIENT: I talked to him again today and would you mind listening to it today because it is something I would like to talk about.

THERAPIST: No, not at all.

CLIENT: I'm sorry. I...

THERAPIST: No I don't. I wouldn't mind. I just wouldn't take the time if it's not going to be very useful. (LAUGHTER)

CLIENT: No I...

THERAPIST: Let's see.

(PAUSE) [00:01:00]

(PAUSE) [00:02:00]

THERAPIST: I can just play it for you if you want.

CLIENT: No. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I don't know.

THERAPIST: I...

CLIENT: Maybe not because it wasn't... It's not what he intended.

THERAPIST: What he intended. I mean, that's, that's why I listened to it at first because I imagine there were some things that he wouldn't have wanted to say directly to you but I don't think there's anything like that.

CLIENT: Okay. Then I guess just skip it because if it's something that he felt like he could say directly to me like I asked him what he meant.

THERAPIST: (inaudible) okay. That's fine.

CLIENT: And he kind of repeats himself anyway so... (LAUGHTER)

THERAPIST: (LAUGHTER) What he said to me was (inaudible) what he said to me was that he was concerned that the intensity and exploratory nature of our work could in addition sort of benefits of being supportive and helpful in some ways have detrimental effects including making you more anxious and dysregulated. [00:03:01]

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: And that he was...

CLIENT: So that's basically a combination of what he told me and what I inferred from what he told me.

THERAPIST: And, yeah, he was sort of quite decent about it saying, "Look. This is my hypothesis. We, you know, we don't know and, you know, you have a longer view and have worked with her a long time and she values the relationship." So, you know, he was sort of saying, "You might give it some thought."

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: But nothing more (inaudible).

CLIENT: That's good.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah. I don't know if it's good or bad that I wasn't until like twenty four hours into that but I was like, "Oh man. That's got to suck for Chad too." (LAUGHTER)

THERAPIST: (LAUGHTER)

CLIENT: I mean, I imagine it happens sometimes but I also imagine that it must be really hard. So...

THERAPIST: How so?

CLIENT: Well, you know, I mean, for me I feel like it's a... I panic because I feel like it's, like, the relationship is going to be taken away from me.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: For you, I imagine it's a, you know, your professional judgment is called into question. [00:04:07]

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: Like, you know.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And I mean, I don't, yeah. It's one of the things, it's one of the things that I'm worrying about but I feel like I'm learning about it in because of the lack of other things to worry about at this point. But it is hard for me to let go of even though I do feel like I've kind of done what he asked. I've given it a lot of thought and I still think he's wrong and tried to talk to him about it today and that wasn't going to go anywhere. So I said, you know... (LAUGHTER) I said, "I don't think there's really a way to explain myself to you that's not going to come across as being very defensive or actually be very defensive." [00:05:03]

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: "So I'm just not going to."

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: And then he seemed fine with that.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I think he was fine. I think he's pretty good but I think he's judging based on my chart.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: And, you know, that's fine. That's what he had to do in this situation. I wish that he were more receptive to other information because, you know, it's his job, it's his job to kind of hypothesize, as he said, like calculate based on what's in my chart because he's not going to get a chance to get to know me. He still has to listen to what I have to say. But when he doesn't do that, that's when he makes a really big mistake in my view. And I don't feel like he listened to what I had to say. Oh well.

(PAUSE) [00:06:01]

CLIENT: It feels like, it feels like the situation was (inaudible at 00:06:17) over again actually.

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: Not in, you know... There's not a romantic aspect to my relationship with you this is, you know, that I'm aware of or at large or whatever. But rather that like you're somebody who really supports me, who I really care about and I really depend on and I feel like I am being told, "This isn't okay. This isn't appropriate. You have to walk away."

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: And I feel like it's... I'm being told that the right thing to do would be to walk away and that I find... That makes me anxious. [00:07:05]

THERAPIST: Yep.

(PAUSE)

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Umm... (SIGH) (PAUSE) Yeah. I mean, what, what matters to you is being ignored and you're not really being listened to.

CLIENT: Yeah. He kept saying, "If the therapy were working so well you wouldn't be in the hospital." [00:07:59]

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: And I think he kept returning to it because it's the hardest thing to refute, because it sounds like a very big clear, final reasoning. But I think it's really not at all.

THERAPIST: (LAUGHTER)

CLIENT: (LAUGHTER) Like okay well, therapy is one aspect of my life. There are many other aspects that have kind of gone to shit. So...

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:08:31) quickly.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I've, I've been giving this emotion regulation thing a lot of thought.

THERAPIST: Uh huh.

CLIENT: And well yeah I have kind of dropped the ball in terms of pragmatic skills and I do, you know, I do find times when thinking about or like exploring ways that I'm upset just makes me more upset and out of control. [00:09:09]

But those are not all of the times and I feel like when I worry too much about keeping a lid on things I become more anxious and less able to tell what is actually going on.

THERAPIST: Mm hmm.

CLIENT: Yeah. I also told him that (LAUGHTER) the reason I appeared much more emotionally regulated the second or third, in the latter half of our meetings was I had come to realize that we wouldn't be able to communicate effectively so I appeared upset at all. So... (LAUGHTER) [00:10:07]

THERAPIST: (LAUGHTER)

CLIENT: He seemed to take it pretty well. I'm not sure that it means that he just couldn't take it in but I don't know. I don't know whether that was just me being a jackass or whether that was actually useful information but it felt good to say. So...

THERAPIST: I don't see why you shouldn't tell him.

CLIENT: (LAUGHTER) Well yeah.

THERAPIST: I mean...

CLIENT: Because it gets in the way of other communication. But that was the last time we were going to meet so...

THERAPIST: Right and I think that's a tricky differential diagnosis for you...

CLIENT: (LAUGHTER)

THERAPIST: ...when communicating more directly what you think really gets in the way of further, is going to get in the way of further communication and when it's going to enhance further communication. [00:11:09]

CLIENT: Hmm.

THERAPIST: In other words, saying like saying something (inaudible) other person doesn't want to hear and imagining it's going to fuck everything up rather than actually make your thoughts (inaudible) feelings, whatever more known in a way that actually contributes.

CLIENT: Yeah and I have trouble with that.

THERAPIST: (inaudible)

CLIENT: I noticed particularly with me being in the hospital and being around so many people who are so loud. (LAUGHTER) And have no problem making their thoughts, desires, wishes known.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I, yeah, I noticed, "Huh, maybe you really need to work on this. Yeah. [00:12:09]

THERAPIST: I... (PAUSE) I guess from what I've seen there are times when things we talk about do disregulate you some. I think that's inevitable and this sort of couldn't occur without it and so the question in my mind is... Well, mostly that I think seems to work out, it seems to me fairly well, that I'd be interested in your thoughts about it In other words, sometimes or even oftentimes things we talk about are upsetting. And...

CLIENT: And then it's appropriate to be upset. (LAUGHTER) [00:13:09]

THERAPIST: Yeah and to be upset and the hurt and confusion and frustration sometimes stays with you.

CLIENT: Mm hmm.

THERAPIST: And that's sort of inherently part of the therapy. And I guess the concern would be if there are times that... There are two concerns there. One is if that stuff became too much or became more of a source of trouble than you could sort of manage or didn't seem worth it. And then the other thing would be, you know, sometimes you get into a cycle like that where things just sort of, you know, get worse and worse in the therapy... And that's, you know, pretty clearly not what's going on. [00:14:07]

CLIENT: Mm hmm.

THERAPIST: And as far as the first (inaudible) it doesn't seem that way to me.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: I guess there are probably sometimes where it's happened but my impression is most of the time...

CLIENT: And that's how it feels to me.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah. I, I'm in, you know, position of, again, I feel like I'm being asked to distrust my recollections and my sense of things. So I'm always up for some skepticism. So... But, yeah, that is how it feels to me. The times where I'm, things get worse seems to be...

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: ...where I don't have time after therapy to kind of sort through, calm down...

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: ...and like get ready to go back and focus. [00:15:05]

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Like be out of the world and that's when either like I'll be like in the middle of it and have that just interrupted and then later on by myself go back to being very upset.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: Or then I just won't be able to calm down.

THERAPIST: Uh huh.

CLIENT: And then, you know, I'm like with people and it's awkward.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: But that doesn't happen terribly often.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: In part because, you know, I have a ritual for like when I leave. This is what I do. And like it's not like an actual ritual but in my head like a mental like I think and I calm down and I get ready to kind of start the rest of my day.

THERAPIST: Yep.

CLIENT: So yeah. I mean, I (inaudible at 00:15:57).

THERAPIST: Yeah. I'm not real concerned, I'm not real concerned or worried about his concerns.

CLIENT: Okay. (LAUGHTER) Thanks. [00:16:01]

THERAPIST: I think your worry about this being taken away from you and the resonance of this is important, you know, I absolutely think there are sort of, well, things to sort of keep an eye on but I'm not really worried about it.

CLIENT: Okay. Good. Yeah. I am hoping and I think I would like to focus more on certainly for myself and I don't know (inaudible) here on self injury...

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: ...not doing that. If only because it looks really bad on my chart. (LAUGHTER)

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: Which is another thing I realized in the hospital. I... There are a lot of reasons to self injure. I don't do it for the same reasons a lot of people do it. [00:16:55]

Like I don't show people most of the time (inaudible) certainly and to some extent, it's like I think wanting to show people and refusing to let myself do that. You know, I think there's a cycle. But it's, it's...

THERAPIST: My impression is it calms you down.

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah, it's much more an emotion regulation thing...

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: ...than a communication thing.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: You know? There are a couple of wall punch or own face punching things out there. You know, people really explicitly wanting to communicate to other people how they were feeling with self injury.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: But not for me, not for me.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. I didn't punch a wall. (LAUGHTER) I really wish I were the kind of person who punched walls. But...

THERAPIST: I understand.

CLIENT: I am not that kind of person.

THERAPIST: Right. [00:17:59]

CLIENT: I did it once and maybe and my hand puffed up and I had to go to the health center. It was so humiliating. (LAUGHTER)

THERAPIST: Uh huh.

CLIENT: I'm just not going to do that again.

THERAPIST: Gotcha.

CLIENT: Or hopefully not. But, yeah. Yeah. So, okay. Thanks.

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: It is interesting that I panic (inaudible).

THERAPIST: Although just going back to the self injury thing, like...

(PAUSE) [00:18:55]

THERAPIST: I have two sort of questions. The first one is... Well I guess I get the impression that you are more concerned, more upset, more wanting to stop doing it or feeling like either to our paying attention to it or working on it more in here or in some way you kind of deal with it more or something like that.

CLIENT: I mean, I guess, I guess I'm more concerned about it now because...

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: ...I've, from seeing it through other people's eyes more.

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: And I think, "Oh, yeah. I guess other people don't really deal with their emotions in this way and well, you know, it's probably not actually good for me." [00:20:01]

THERAPIST: I bet it's not so easy to talk about here actually, as I think about it. I mean, I wonder if that's part of why we don't talk about it much.

CLIENT: I don't know.

THERAPIST: Or maybe there's something in my reaction to it that makes it more difficult to talk about.

CLIENT: I don't have much to say about it. I guess I do have stuff to say about it but I feel like I, I feel like I say what I wanted and talk about it as I want to and I don't...

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: I find it hard to talk about in general. But I don't know. I didn't, it doesn't, it hasn't seemed to me as though it were a huge concern for you. Like...

THERAPIST: Oh I see.

CLIENT: ...I feel like you've kind of communicated, "Well, if you don't feel that bad, then you won't do it." You know, like...

THERAPIST: Mm hmm. [00:21:07]

CLIENT: ...working on the reasons for needing to hurt myself rather than, you know, saying, "Just shut that down too."

THERAPIST: Uh huh.

CLIENT: So I don't know. (PAUSE) Yeah. Yeah. (PAUSE) You know, it really bothers me so it would be nice to not do that. But I don't know. Part of it also just like trying to make these people happy. [00:22:03]

THERAPIST: Mm hmm. The hospital people?

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. (PAUSE) There really doesn't seem to be a good consensus on how, how, on the distinction, if there is one, between masking emotions and regulating them. (LAUGHTER) You know, the kind of, the same person, this woman who is this expressive therapist. She does all the (inaudible at 00:22:59) Well, you don't want to bottle up your emotions but at the same time...

THERAPIST: Yeah. [00:23:09]

CLIENT: ...those skills that she's teaching are pretty much that's what they do for me, for me at least. I don't know (inaudible).

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:23:15) symptom is like sort of more or less appropriateness of like person, place, time, whatever.

CLIENT: Hmm.

THERAPIST: I think.

CLIENT: That's helpful. Hmm. Yeah. (PAUSE) You know, there's a, there was a young woman, a girl, she's like seventeen...

THERAPIST: Mm hmm.

CLIENT: ...at the hospital with me who's kind of a hot mess. And who... She was the one that punched the wall and then like bitched about needing to get it x-rayed until she got it x-rayed. It was clearly not broken. I was like, "Can you move it?" (LAUGHTER) [00:24:03]

THERAPIST: (LAUGHTER)

CLIENT: (inaudible at 00:24:07) which I should have. Why didn't I say that?

THERAPIST: Maybe they should have just punched a wall.

CLIENT: That's true.

THERAPIST: (inaudible)

CLIENT: She would have been able to attack me. I'm pretty sure. But I'm bigger than she is. (LAUGHTER)

THERAPIST: (LAUGHTER) Okay. There you go.

CLIENT: Then clearly. But she was just super focused on, "I know all of the DBT (ph) skills and can tell you about the groups so that I dominate every group all of the time." And God that got under my skin and of course it gets under my skin because I see myself in her. And I want to talk all the time so it annoys me when she's talking all the time. (LAUGHTER) But... Yeah. But (inaudible) I'm sure she was actually using those coping skills but talking about them a lot was also a symptom of needing to dominate the conversation, needing to have everyone's attention and affection and admiration, adulation et cetera. [00:25:17]

THERAPIST: Mm hmm.

CLIENT: So... So then I go back and forth between saying, "Well, I feel like I'm way more self aware than most of the people in here." But maybe that is just another side of me really being in denial because I feel like I think everybody else here is in pretty deep denial about one thing or another so in general you don't get to be the exception. (LAUGHTER)

THERAPIST: (LAUGHTER)

CLIENT: And I say that of course wanting you to kind of reassure me but also it doesn't matter whether you reassure me or not because like there's nothing that is going, that... There's so reassurance that is going to get there I feel like or that should get there. I think that is the question I always might need to have. [00:26:11]

THERAPIST: So I think you're backing off wanting reassurance from me by kind of (inaudible)...

CLIENT: Putting it out there and...

THERAPIST: ...little bit. Like...

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tell me I'm better than them. (LAUGHTER)

THERAPIST: (LAUGHTER) Well, what, why do you want to be better than them?

CLIENT: Because they're really annoying. (LAUGHTER) Actually, yeah, I just had a hard time with the people this time around. You know, I did kind of make some friends and that's good but I felt like, I felt like most people there any relationship I had was just like sucking the energy out of me. [00:27:17]

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: And I don't know how much of that is me and how much of that is them. And I know some of it was them but I'm sure also some of it was me just not being good at, you know, seeing holes in people and trying to kind of fill them in.

THERAPIST: Yeah. (inaudible at 00:27:55) it also occurs to me that you weren't in there because you were at your best. [00:28:01]

CLIENT: (LAUGHTER) There's that, yeah. Yeah.

THERAPIST: Where I'm going is to say that, like, you know, it's draining to be in the kind of shape you were in. Again, I know there's probably also like lots more interesting stuff about what was going on with people or how did it make me feel drained or irritated but like you were feeling really awful.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And you're often feeling really awful but this was like even really awfuler (ph).

CLIENT: Yeah and thinking...

THERAPIST: I'm sure that wasn't...

CLIENT: ...the thing I should have done with the doctor was to ask people what he's like and then I can, you know, have information with which to moderate my approach. And I'm like, "But if you could have done that, you wouldn't have been in the hospital." (LAUGHTER)

THERAPIST: (LAUGHTER) [00:29:03]

CLIENT: So, yeah. Thanks.

THERAPIST: Sure. (PAUSE) I try to, I tend to try to tell you about things that you're really in denial of...

CLIENT: Thanks.

THERAPIST: ...at least as they come across to me.

CLIENT: That's, that's good. I appreciate that.

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: I mean, sometimes that's hard to hear.

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: I appreciate that. But, you know, when you tell me something that I really don't want to listen to, that's usually indicative that it's something that I really need to listen to so I try to remember that.

(PAUSE) [00:30:00]

THERAPIST: I'm glad you're feeling better.

CLIENT: Yeah, me too (inaudible).

THERAPIST: Yeah.

(PAUSE)

CLIENT: You know, I'm a little... Like I said, I was a little worried that I was feeling so much but we left the hospital like all the worries just kind of came back. I was like, "Okay. (LAUGHTER) Then that's fine."

THERAPIST: (LAUGHTER) Right.

CLIENT: But yeah. (PAUSE) I'm not sure what made the difference. I'm not sure why (inaudible) and likewise I'm not totally sure why I got better.

THERAPIST: Mm hmm. [00:31:15]

CLIENT: You know, I wrote a lot it felt like, you know, it felt like I picked up the phone to call you because I felt really guilty about leaving James.

THERAPIST: Mm hmm.

CLIENT: But I don't (inaudible) because I don't usually feel anything besides guilt (inaudible). I guess it feels like I keep thinking somebody, you or God or somebody dumped me. (LAUGHTER)

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:31:57) [00:31:59]

CLIENT: Is going to tell me eventually, "Okay, you've worked hard enough. Now we're telling you the easy way. Okay," like, "You've suffered enough. Now here's the shortcut." So there's that. That's not going to happen. But... No it's not that that's what is going to happen. It's just that this is the shortcut. (LAUGHTER) It's just so fucking long.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah. You know, my roommate for the first four days that I was there has been kind of in and out of hospitals for the last fifteen years or so and she was there because she was on lithium (ph) and she went off her meds without telling anybody. [00:33:03]

Like seriously? What the fuck. And then she was there for three days and then leaves, you know, against doctor's advice. I'm like, "Really? Really?" Ugh! I just don't understand that. Like, yes, you feel bad when you stop taking your depression medication all of the sudden. Yes, even if you didn't feel that good before you stopped taking it, you feel worse after. Yes, that's how medication works. (SIGH) (PAUSE) They put me on Geodon (ph) which was fine the first day and then he was like, "Let's up it to sixty. Why not?" And now I feel like crap so I'm going to go back down to forty.

THERAPIST: Yep.

CLIENT: I checked in with the doctor about this.

THERAPIST: Right. [00:34:01]

CLIENT: (inaudible) yeah, like I could barely walk over here. That was not fun.

THERAPIST: Oh?

CLIENT: Yeah. I took like a three hour nap before I walked over here.

THERAPIST: Oh.

CLIENT: (LAUGHTER) Yeah.

THERAPIST: Yeah. It's really (inaudible) up.

CLIENT: Yeah. It's like my legs are all wobbly. I just, I feel really weak. But... (PAUSE) Yeah I guess I'm pretty pissed at my doctor. You know, like what part of sensitive to medication do you not understand that you want to change my medication the day before you discharge me? Really? Really that's the solution? (LAUGHTER) And it's also, you know, he's somebody who's easy to be angry at and so...

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: (LAUGHTER)

THERAPIST: Maybe he's easy to, maybe, maybe not. I mean, I guess I assume you say that because you're not going to see him again or... [00:35:03]

CLIENT: Yeah and because he doesn't have a very good bedside manner. It's, you know...

THERAPIST: Uh huh.

CLIENT: He's... The patients all like, there's somebody that they all hate and he's one of them.

THERAPIST: Yeah, I guess the way you said it made me wonder if you're sort of backing off being angry with him but maybe not.

CLIENT: I don't know.

THERAPIST: Maybe there's bunch of things you're pretty angry for I think.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: I assume this is the same doctor (inaudible).

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Well there was... He was out the first two days I was there so I another guy, (ph) who was like, "Sure. You don't need to go to the (inaudible) groups. Like you know what is going to help you and if these make you worse then don't go. Then he was like, "We're just not going to change your medication. It'll be fine."

THERAPIST: Mm hmm.

CLIENT: And so I liked him. (LAUGHTER) But, you know, it's easy for me to like people who...

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: ...tell me to do things I'm already doing.

THERAPIST: Yeah. [00:36:01]

CLIENT: So I don't feel... (PAUSE) Yeah, I'm just angry about the whole situation. Yeah. I don't think I'm still angry at you. I don't know. It doesn't feel like it. I was pretty angry though for a while.

THERAPIST: Mm hmm.

CLIENT: Yeah because I didn't want to be there.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Or, you know, didn't want to be anywhere.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: If I was going to be alive, I might as well be there but didn't want to be anywhere. [00:36:57]

THERAPIST: Yeah. How does the timing of I guess, one (inaudible) I have about... I wondered if the situation with the apartment, showing the apartment...

CLIENT: That was I think one of the big things...

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: ...that I had to be pleasant and cheerful not only to Eric (ph) and Wes but also to these people I don't know.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Eric and Wes. I told Eric I haven't tried to commit suicide today and I'm counting that as a win and nothing.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: They got me ice cream.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: Like nothing. I was like, "Really? You're that clueless?" or, you know, "Really? I'm that bad at communicating?"

THERAPIST: Mm hmm.

CLIENT: Like I didn't think I am that bad at communicating. I don't... It's like I say the words and it's not what the other person hears. My doctor was really surprised to hear I was in the hospital even though last time we met, I told him I was not doing well. [00:38:15]

I feel like I, I'm just doing something really wrong. Yeah. But then, we talked about (inaudible).

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: And that's just really hard for me to say, "Well, this thing just really needs to happen but I can't do it..."

THERAPIST: Yep.

CLIENT: "...because I'm sick."

THERAPIST: Yep. And that's pushed you a little...

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: ...like in a way that was not the (inaudible) hospital but was not helpful. [00:39:01]

CLIENT: I mean, it was helpful in the sense that you were right. I really did need to be not doing the, the apartment anymore but it put me in conflict with James in that situation.

THERAPIST: I think it made you feel more responsible because you felt like I was... You felt totally paralyzed when you couldn't do any of the options I think.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And I think by pushing you, I was kind of laying more responsibility on you to do something, to do a particular thing about it.

CLIENT: Mm hmm.

THERAPIST: Like I don't think I was sort of (inaudible at 00:39:41)

CLIENT: (LAUGHTER)

THERAPIST: I think when the moment was more that you were feeling so burdened and so stuck, so trapped.

CLIENT: Yeah, and I felt like when I went home and did say, "I can't do this."

THERAPIST: Right. [00:39:57]

CLIENT: And kind of came into James and he said, "Okay. That's fine."

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: But he was just really clearly unhappy with it and I wasn't, it (inaudible) me less burdened.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I was, you know, more burdened because I felt like, "Okay, well I did what was supposed to make me feel better, what was supposed to be a relief for me and I still feel like I'm responsible for this.

(PAUSE)

THERAPIST: And there are a few things at the hospital that help but one thing I was wondering about is the timing of finding out that you guys were not either of you going to have to show the apartment and your feeling better.

CLIENT: I don't know that that...

THERAPIST: Didn't click at all?

CLIENT: ...corresponded.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: Because I didn't, I didn't find out about that until a couple days later.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: Basically I got there and James was like, "I'll take care of it." [00:41:01]

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: "Like, I'll do it. I'll take care of it."

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: "It's... Don't think about it anymore."

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: So... No, I don't know. You know, it's kind of hard to throw a temper tantrum for more than four days. (LAUGHTER) Not that that was entirely what I was doing but in part I was just, I just needed to be angry and after a while that gets used up. It's nice, you know?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: It's really nice. Yeah (PAUSE) Yeah. And I think, you know (inaudible at 00:41:51).

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: Nothing has really changed but I have, I have some breathing space and I can keep going. [00:42:05]

THERAPIST: Yeah. Well, we'll stop for now.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: And I'll let you know if I have any available time open. Otherwise I'll see you on Tuesday.

CLIENT: Okay. Have a good weekend.

THERAPIST: You too. Take care.

END TRANSCRIPT