TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:
CLIENT: He has most of our furniture. So...
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: Yeah. So he still has the table (inaudible) we just don't have a chair. Yeah. So this occurred to me this morning. Are you late on purpose?
THERAPIST: (LAUGHTER)
CLIENT: (LAUGHTER) Because...
THERAPIST: No.
CLIENT: Okay.
THERAPIST: (inaudible)
CLIENT: Just that I'm chronically late and it makes me feel better that I usually end up beating you anyway. (LAUGHTER) Because I get really anxious about it when I'm like running late for everything as well as this. But... So I didn't know whether the therapeutic guise extended that far but... So I really, really wish that that doctor had not said anything to me. Like really wish it. [00:01:01]
I would have been much more okay if he had just called and said something to you and not said anything to me. But... So like he said a couple of times when he first sent in this, you know, he was like, "Ordinarily I wouldn't say anything about this." I was like, "Yep. There's a reason for that. Like you don't have any way of knowing that you're playing into the fact that I feel really badly about being taken care of and the fact that I feel like most of the time when I have a supporter that person leaves and the fact that, you know, I feel like they leave because it's bad for me to be taken care of. Like he can't access this but he should have known better. I don't know. I talked with James a long time about it last night and he was, he was really good.
THERAPIST: Good. [00:01:59]
CLIENT: You know, I, I'm just having a hard time letting go of it. (PAUSE) Yeah. You know, an easier time since I actually I saw it through to, "Oh, you know, this is why it's getting under my skin so much." But... It's just... (PAUSE) Yeah. There are reasons that it's not, he ordinarily wouldn't do that. I'm really angry with him. But on the other hand, it feels like he's just too easy to be angry with because nobody really likes him, I mean, at the hospital. [00:04:05]
Like there was an evening where it was like the kind of nightly wrap up turned into a huge bitchfest and much of the bitching was directed toward him and you could feel the counselor as he read it going... (SIGH) Like, "I know." (LAUGHTER) But obviously (inaudible) which is really good I think. Like that's important but... Yeah. So nobody really likes him and I never have to see him again and he's out of my life and so it should, it's easy for me to be upset with him. I feel like it ought to be easy for me to let it go but it is not. [00:04:07]
You know, I feel guilty about having to talk to you now. What the fuck is up with that? It's just... (SIGH)I always have felt guilty about how important this is to me. I guess I'm just realizing that very sharply when it's, you know, especially so at this point. (PAUSE) Yeah. It's just, you know, I was just so horrible. Like...
(PAUSE) [00:05:09]
CLIENT: Yeah. James and I have talked about, well, if it becomes necessary for me to be hospitalized again like (inaudible) is good. We feel like this or James feels like at least and I hadn't really thought about it but I agree with him that James feels like this is a viable option whereas, you know, both of us had felt that it would not be again. That...
THERAPIST: Sorry. This?
CLIENT: This good hospital.
THERAPIST: Oh, okay.
CLIENT: That, you know, I know pretty well now the placebo effect is gone basically.
THERAPIST: Right. [00:05:55]
CLIENT: The... But the time and space and safety is there. So that's good. But, you know, we kind of talked about what do we do in the future? Like how, how do I protect myself? And, you know, we've come up with reasons. Like just, if I have a bad interaction with a doctor just, you know, if I feel bad about him, just refuse treatment from him, just say I want somebody else. Because he just... It can do so much damage. But that's, you know, going to piss everybody off at the hospital because it throws their scheduling off and, you know, how, and, you know, non compliance is...
THERAPIST: Right. [00:07:03]
CLIENT: ...the big red flag.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: And you know me. I like to be compliant. But... (PAUSE) You know, he raised my meds when he shouldn't have and he told me that my wanting to get my medication for my thyroid right was just my anxiety getting out of control.
THERAPIST: Oh.
CLIENT: And, I mean, he was about half right on that one so I've got to give him credit for that. Yeah. I was looking for something to be anxious about because I am anxious. But that being said, they did fuck up my medication and I offered to let it drop multiple times and everytime, the nurses said, "No. If it's important to you, it's important to us." [00:08:05]
And I said, "Okay, fine." You know? And my endocrinologist has been pretty specific about this and told me in no uncertain terms that this is important so I'm trying to do what he says is important. And the one person who told me that I was, that it wasn't important, that he knew better because he's a doctor is, you know, my doctor. You know, it's like I try not to let people get in a position where they hurt me like that unless I know them or... You know, I don't actually have to know them. I have to spend about five minutes with them. [00:09:01]
But I like experts. What can I say? Like... Or I don't like experts but people who are in a position of expertise. Like they can hurt me and I know that there's not a way to protect myself from that or that there's not a good way or complete way. It just sucks.
(PAUSE) [00:10:00]
CLIENT: And the part that I'm not really talking about is the part where you were very valuable to me. Like you were the person I called. What the fuck is he doing?
(PAUSE)
THERAPIST: I guess sometimes I'm your lifeline.
CLIENT: Yep.
(PAUSE) [00:11:00]
THERAPIST: And... (PAUSE) Sometimes you don't, you deserve more.
CLIENT: Hmm. (PAUSE) Yes.
(PAUSE) [00:12:00]
CLIENT: On the plus side, the (inaudible) program is actually really good.
THERAPIST: Oh good.
CLIENT: Yeah. That's nice. Yeah. I think maybe I just hate (inaudible) because I really hate (inaudible).
THERAPIST: Oh.
CLIENT: (LAUGHTER) Or no I don't think my emotions towards her were strong enough to be termed hate. I just really don't want to be in the same room with her ever again.
THERAPIST: (LAUGHTER) What you would call that.
CLIENT: She... (LAUGHTER) Yeah.
THERAPIST: No.
CLIENT: No. She was super nice was the problem and trying to be so hard to be really helpful and just the opposite. But yeah, I like this program. It's a lot more specific and in detail, detailed than most of the (inaudible) that I've encountered before. [00:13:11]
THERAPIST: Uh huh.
CLIENT: Which is really helpful because the broad stroke side...
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: Because the... You know, a couple of the central models that they use I find really not helpful or problematic and so... Like this emotional mind, rational mind, what the fuck is that? That's not how the mind works.
THERAPIST: (LAUGHTER)
CLIENT: And they clearly not how the mind works and they know that that's not how the mind works. So, yeah, I don't want to deal with that. But, you know, when it comes to just like going through emotions and talking about them in a whole lot of detail and what they look like and how, you know, you feel them and how you express them.
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: And what those emotions could do...
THERAPIST: Uh huh.
CLIENT: Yeah. I can see the point of that. It's really...
THERAPIST: I agree.
CLIENT: ...helpful.
THERAPIST: Like the more phenomenological...
CLIENT: Yes. Yeah.
THERAPIST: ...aspects of it are good. It's not the more theoretical ones. [00:14:07]
CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah. They stay away from those so, you know. It's therapy. We can't tell those patients too much. You know? God knows, information would overwhelm them. We have to tell them it's fine." (LAUGHTER)
THERAPIST: (LAUGHTER)
CLIENT: Yeah, so that's helpful and there's a really emphasis in this program at least on like you have to experience all the emotions. All the emotions... You know, no emotion is, emotions don't have moral weight. And that part I think I just wasn't in a place in my life six months ago where I could see that and now I say, "Oh, yeah."
THERAPIST: Uh huh. [00:15:03]
CLIENT: "Yeah, I got that." The whole healing comes through pain part. I don't like it but it's the truth so I, I can work within that. (PAUSE) Yeah. It feels like the when I actually recognize that and actually not just recognize it but kind of embrace it... I hate to use that word.
THERAPIST: (LAUGHTER)
CLIENT: I don't like it when people talk about emotions in that way. (LAUGHTER) When people like use that description. But anyway, when I do that it, you know, hurts less.
THERAPIST: Oh. [00:15:59]
CLIENT: So, that's good.
THERAPIST: Good.
CLIENT: James and I had a fight last night which didn't really get resolved before we went to bed. Like it sort of got resolved but we were both super tense and super upset still. You know, from my perspective, James just jumped on me, you know, got really upset at me for reasons that I am still only subtly clear on and I think he just was having a bad day.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: I was there and he was angry.
THERAPIST: Yep. [00:16:57]
CLIENT: You know, my goals are big in this kind of thing. So my goal for the evening was to do three logistical things but not more than three. Like rest and, you know, so part of that. And I told James about that and he thought it was a really good idea. But then he jumped on me when I didn't do it. I was like, "That's not helping." (LAUGHTER) Like, "I tell you the goal so you can help me but if you're going to get mad at me when I don't fulfill them, like, that's, that's the opposite of the point." And, you know, Eric (ph) texted me out of the blue to say, "Hey, good news. It looks like we've got somebody for the apartment that won't crap out on us." I was like, "Awesome. Keep me posted," texted him back. And he texted me again. He was like, "Will you be around tomorrow? I really want to get the, I want to get the sub lease from you so we can get this moving really fast." And I started to text him back and James jumped on me. [00:18:01]
I was like, "What the fuck?" I actually, you know, ordinarily I shut down in this situation and I did shut down. I said, "No." You have to tell people things they don't want to hear and so I said, "It feels like you're jumping on me and I don't know what I did and it's not helpful if you're going to yell at me for, if I don't carry out these goals that I set for myself in therapy." Eric doesn't know, has not heard from James that I'm out of the hospital, as it turns out, so he's just being a douchebag. Like, "Oh, I assume Tanya's better. Let me make her deal with this thing that put her in the hospital in the first place." And I think James is just terrified of me taking too much on...
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: ...and I'm going to get sick again.
THERAPIST: Yeah. [00:18:59]
CLIENT: And I understand that but...
THERAPIST: (inaudible)
CLIENT: ...he's really not helping.
THERAPIST: I see, yeah.
CLIENT: Yeah, I think he's scared, he's scared. And I think also he's angry because he's had to work really, really hard because I'm sick and it doesn't help him when I do, when I act in patterns that are going to make me worse again.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: And I really understand that but...
THERAPIST: Right but the jumping absolutely does not help.
CLIENT: No, no. You know, I was so scared. Like I get, I was scared he was going to hit me and that's like not coming from anywhere other than him being really angry. Like he's angry enough to punch a wall but, you know, as far as I know, nobody has ever hit me. As far as I know, James has never hit anyone.
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: I think he got in a fight when he was like ten because he was being bullied, whatever. [00:20:01]
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: And I was, I was so scared. Yeah. So, you know, I said my peace and he said his peace and I just kind of apologized and I had apologized for texting Eric and I didn't think I had anything else to apologize for so I didn't apologize but I had to work really hard not to. (LAUGHTER)
THERAPIST: Mm hmm. Yeah.
CLIENT: But like, you know, it was at the point where I see why he's so angry and I certainly forgive him for it but the effects of it are still with me and so I can't say everything's okay again. You know, I think this morning... I think I'm fine. But last night, you know, I was so scared. [00:22:15]
THERAPIST: Hmm.
(PAUSE)
CLIENT: So eventually, I eventually texted Eric back, "I'll be in the hospital tomorrow. Like can give you the..."
THERAPIST: Yeah. Right.
CLIENT: "...can get up with you to give you the copy of the lease and the keys and stuff."
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: You know, friendly reminder.
(PAUSE)
THERAPIST: "I'll be in the hospital, comma, douchebag (inaudible) James."
CLIENT: (LAUGHTER) Yeah. I don't think my calling him a douchebag would have any effect on him.[00:22:05]
THERAPIST: (inaudible)
CLIENT: (LAUGHTER)
THERAPIST: (inaudible) (LAUGHTER)
CLIENT: Yeah, yeah right. (LAUGHTER) Yeah it seems like things are starting back up. I called work and got my schedule for not this week but next week. I'm only on for part time so I'll see if I can pick up some more hours. I need to make up for the time I missed to be eligible for health care.
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: I only have to work twenty hours for health care but... I only have to work an average of twenty hours.
THERAPIST: I see. Yeah.
CLIENT: I should add up my hours so far and see how I'm doing.
THERAPIST: I see. So you shouldn't be that far off.
CLIENT: I'm sorry?
THERAPIST: You shouldn't be that far off because...
CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. I think I'll have to make up some but I think it'll be okay.
THERAPIST: Yeah. [00:22:57]
CLIENT: And I still won't be eligible for another month or another six weeks but, yeah. I called Papa (ph). I called him back because he butt dialed me and I was like, "Hi" (inaudible) (LAUGHTER) call him back and that was, that went poorly. You know, he's... Everyone's been really good about keeping their distance. I had really... He was the first person I had talked to. I talked to Amanda once when I was in the hospital and that was (inaudible) And my mom doesn't even know that I was in the hospital. (inaudible) sort of thing (inaudible). You know, I think Papa thought I didn't want to talk about being in the hospital but really I just find it's getting hard to talk to him these days because I don't know if it's him getting older or spending all of his time alone with Joanne (ph) or what but he just doesn't listen. [00:24:09]
You know? He spent half an hour talking about the renovations and everything on the house and all the stuff that's going on to get a new stove and like, "Okay, fine. But..." I don't think he asked how I was doing.
THERAPIST: Yeah. Well...
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: That's what (inaudible).
CLIENT: And I know he's really worried. I think he's trying to help but...
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: ...it's also...
THERAPIST: It wasn't because he wasn't thinking of it at all.
CLIENT: I don't think so, no.
THERAPIST: But I gather there was a way in which it felt the same.
CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah. I think habit is hard to break for him. I guess... It's hard enough to listen to people (inaudible) to talk to people who don't listen to me. [00:25:09]
THERAPIST: Mm hmm.
CLIENT: Yeah. We're not going home for Thanksgiving. I really want to go home for Thanksgiving but... (LAUGHTER) I told James this and he said, "Okay." And I said, "But I don't think the logistics are worth it." And he said, "Well, what do you think we would have to do?" And I said, "Well, travel a lot. We would have to actually be with my family." (LAUGHTER) But, you know, I mean (inaudible) wasn't the same thing last year. We stayed and went over to friend's houses that we don't know very well and that was okay.
(PAUSE) [00:26:01]
CLIENT: Everytime I talk to Papa he talks about how they're getting a double bed for one of the bedrooms, you know, for James and I to stay in when we come home and I just feel really bad that we haven't visited (inaudible) they're always welcome or we're always welcome.
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: But he just feels really bad. All of their other kids are still in Texas. [00:27:03]
THERAPIST: I see. You're the only one (inaudible).
CLIENT: Yep.
(PAUSE)
THERAPIST: I get the impression as you're talking that you're also sort of communicating to me that you're happy and relieved to be back here, like you're talking to me.
CLIENT: Yeah. (LAUGHTER) Definitely that. Yeah. It's a good thing.
THERAPIST: Good. Well welcome back.
CLIENT: Thanks.
THERAPIST: Sure.
(PAUSE)
CLIENT: And oh, as for tomorrow, the day actually doesn't start until ten.
THERAPIST: Oh, okay. That's easy. [00:28:01]
CLIENT: Yeah it's really easy. And it's like less than a half hour...
THERAPIST: (inaudible)
CLIENT: on the interstate.
THERAPIST: Good.
CLIENT: Yeah. I'll probably hit it... And it's going in the opposite direction of traffic flow.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: I don't have to wait half an hour and then not be able to get on. Oh God, I hate (inaudible). It's really just the commute.
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: This one is the one that's the worst but the other also, it gets kind of hairy in the afternoon, heading back. Yeah. Yeah, I'm real happy here. It feels like the Geodon is actually doing something. So...
THERAPIST: Good.
CLIENT: It's really nice. I really was not expecting that.
THERAPIST: (LAUGHTER)
CLIENT: (LAUGHTER)
THERAPIST: Who knew?
CLIENT: Yeah, so it's nice. I mean, I, I feel confident and good enough of placebo effect aspect of it. [00:29:03]
THERAPIST: Good.
CLIENT: Because...
THERAPIST: Right. Right.
CLIENT: I kind of just went, "Well, just give me whatever you want. It's fine. Whatever." Yeah. It still makes me feel like crap after I take it in the morning. I haven't taken it yet because I haven't eaten yet. But I, I feel like just really stupid and tired and slow and like I can't react to people unless for about an hour, hour and a half and then I'm just good for the rest of the day.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: Whatever. I'll take that.
THERAPIST: Yeah, right. Not a bad deal overall.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
(PAUSE) [00:30:00]
CLIENT: Yeah. I guess I'm still just working out how to get back into my life.
THERAPIST: Sure.
(PAUSE)
CLIENT: They put me on the prayer list at church (inaudible).
THERAPIST: How did they know?
CLIENT: Oh, I...
THERAPIST: You told them that you were (inaudible).
CLIENT: (inaudible).
THERAPIST: Nice.
CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. I told them about it (inaudible) yeah.
THERAPIST: So it went okay? [00:31:05]
CLIENT: Yeah it was really good.
THERAPIST: Good.
CLIENT: It was really, really helpful. There was one day where it was like I was waiting both to hear back from you but I knew I wasn't going to hear back until six but I still was waiting and I was like, "Well, I'll try and call him again at six because he's not going to be able to get through on these phones."
THERAPIST: I see, yeah.
CLIENT: And then I was also waiting for Mark to visit.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: So it was like... (LAUGHTER)
THERAPIST: (LAUGHTER)
CLIENT: Oh. (LAUGHTER)
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: That was a hard day.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah. I get really scared because I felt like you and Mark, people are not going to come through. I get really scared. This is why I appreciate the like fast text message back saying, "Let's text back at this time." I really appreciate that.
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: Yeah. [00:32:01]
THERAPIST: Even if "at this time" is a little ways out (inaudible).
CLIENT: Yeah, that's totally fine. Like...
THERAPIST: (inaudible) is really important.
CLIENT: Yeah and unless things are as they were when I was admitted like that bad...
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: Like I said, call me back...
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: right away most of the time...
THERAPIST: Right.
CLIENT: ...it is, I can hold on (inaudible) yeah.
THERAPIST: I wonder if that is also part of the effect that this doctor's comments had on your sort of feeling guilty about coming here. I wonder if in some way, like just worry about whether I was going to be here when you got back, something like that. Like this was for some reason or somehow going to be taken away. [00:33:05]
CLIENT: No. It didn't feel like it was going to be taken away. It felt like I was going to have to give it up.
THERAPIST: I see.
(PAUSE)
CLIENT: Yeah. But I do worry that, I worry that people are going to be taken away from me. (PAUSE) Yeah.
(PAUSE) [00:34:00]
CLIENT: I get so scared. (PAUSE) Yeah, I hate being late but I also, I hate waiting for people.
(PAUSE)
THERAPIST: Because you're afraid they won't come or...
CLIENT: Yeah. Mom sometimes just wouldn't come.
THERAPIST: Oh.
(PAUSE) [00:35:00]
CLIENT: Yeah, it, it's a little terrifying to me how much I need you and to some extent, Mark and James and just people. It's like... It's very scary. (PAUSE) Yeah, it is that part of me that does not care about anything else or like does not care about consequences just like wants to (inaudible).
(PAUSE) [00:35:55]
CLIENT: You know (inaudible) that part was very very strong and I knew I should walk away and I didn't and that was bad. And I regret that. (PAUSE) (LAUGHTER) It's funny. I, I told James about it feeling like this feeling like I had with (inaudible) and he like really did not see the parallel. He was like, "I'm still not, I'm still not getting it." And finally I talked, we talked about like well, you know, there was a time when I was at William & Mary, (inaudible) was really taking care of me in really important ways and that was okay. That was appropriate. It was like... That was just strong teacher student relationship. That was good. And I said, "But I don't get to feel good about that part anymore. Like, I feel like all of it was bad. I feel guilty about all of it even if I don't think, believe that I need to feel guilty about it. I do." [00:37:15]
THERAPIST: You feel tainted by the romantic part and guilt to do with that?
CLIENT: That's like, well, if this relationship turned into this thing that was not healthy then, you know, maybe I'm never okay.
THERAPIST: Hmm. [00:37:55]
CLIENT: And I don't actually believe that that's the case. I just feel bad still. Yeah I'm a lot more gunshy than I used to be.
THERAPIST: Mmm.
(PAUSE)
CLIENT: So it was really good that Mark came and visited me. We sat and talked for like an hour and it was just very like serene and nice and really good person (inaudible). You know, the, this Sunday (inaudible) the sermon was another of the priests that I have an up and down relationship, in my head at least. I have no idea what he thinks of me. He gave one of the best sermons I've ever heard (inaudible)period. [00:39:21]
THERAPIST: Oh.
CLIENT: He was talking about there was the little apocalypse of Mark which is like where Jesus talks about the end of times because these (inaudible) he talked about personal apocalypses and, yeah, the kind of lives and rubble and without saying that that was easy, you know, this is the beginning of something really good but it's just a hard line to walk.
(PAUSE) [00:40:00]
CLIENT: (inaudible).
THERAPIST: Are you saying in part that you're feeling a bit hopeful?
CLIENT: (LAUGHTER) Well that would never do.
THERAPIST: (LAUGHTER)
CLIENT: Yeah, actually. Yeah, yeah, yeah. As they say in (inaudible) I feel like I am very slowly learning to trust the process.
THERAPIST: Uh huh. Good.
CLIENT: It's about time. (LAUGHTER)
THERAPIST: (LAUGHTER)
CLIENT: Yeah. I don't know what I'm trusting it to do.
THERAPIST: Uh huh.
(PAUSE) [00:41:00]
CLIENT: (inaudible). (PAUSE) Healings and transformations.
(PAUSE) [00:41:59]
Which is all getting wound up into (inaudible) or me at this point (inaudible) you know, like starting to see purpose of talking about the divinity of Jesus and talking about the trinity and, you know, talking about God who is in relationships and the God who suffers. You know, to say the suffering happens, it happens and that's real. But the idea being that's not the end point, even though it still happens and kind of needs to happen.
THERAPIST: I see. Like (inaudible). [00:43:01]
CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. That part still... I'm working on buying that part but I can see why it's there now.
THERAPIST: (inaudible).
CLIENT: Oh, the, the... I can see why that piece of the theology that, you know, the crucifixion and resurrection, why that is something that people (inaudible) this is really real. I don't know that I'll ever be orthodox enough to talk to very many people about it but, yeah, I'm okay with that. [00:43:59]
THERAPIST: (inaudible) the reality of the suffering.
CLIENT: Yeah.
(PAUSE)
THERAPIST: Is like very meaningful to people.
CLIENT: Yes. Yeah. (PAUSE) Yeah. (PAUSE) Surely did not think I would be saying that. (LAUGHTER)
THERAPIST: (LAUGHTER)
CLIENT: Yeah, I'm getting weird.
THERAPIST: (LAUGHTER)
CLIENT: But, you know, what do you do? My life is weird. [00:45:07]
THERAPIST: We should finish up for now.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: But we'll continue with weirdness (inaudible) tomorrow.
CLIENT: (LAUGHTER) Okay.
THERAPIST: Have a good day.
END TRANSCRIPT
