TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: Good morning.

CLIENT: Morning. So [inaudible at 00:00:11] something good about the exclusive method so I keep thinking about suicide. Just thinking about it. I feel big-ish. I certainly feel like I can call you if things get worse and I feel like I will. Trying to I don't know make something.

THERAPIST: Yes. That's how you win the war.

CLIENT: Yes. Not yesterday, but -

THERAPIST: What is it that you think?

CLIENT: It just gets really bad and I fantasize about killing myself and it's usually either bleeding out or jumping (ph) or something.

THERAPIST: Like slitting your wrists or your throat and bleeding out?

CLIENT: Yes, yes. It just starts to feel like it's too hard for me to figure and I say nope, that's not your job right now. You just have to [inaudible at 00:01:41]. So I let go. It hasn't been bad enough for me to even call you so but I don't know what that means. I tend not to call you if it doesn't feel like a crisis of some kind. And it feels like I can make it through these next two days. [inaudible at 00:02:10]. But yes, I have to keep reminding myself that you can't actually read my mind; when I say I'm doing badly you don't necessarily know what that entails, [laughs] so I'm trying to be better about that. [00:02:28]

THERAPIST: To compensate for my lack of mind-reading?

CLIENT: Yes. You [inaudible at 00:02:38]. I ended up e-mailing one of the Priests from my church just to say [I still feel] (ph) really badly, I can use some help. [inaudible at 00:02:56] but one thing that he had mentioned would be for me to just go there a couple of days a week to volunteer in some way. So I said this is a possibility for me at least. And that was very, very hard to do. Very hard to do.

THERAPIST: Sorry, what?

CLIENT: E-mailing him and asking for help.

THERAPIST: In the first place, okay, yes.

CLIENT: Yes. Even though [inaudible at 00:03:24], he knows what's been going on, he's [inaudible at 00:03:30], I'm saying things like I'll call you and we'll talk sort of thing. But I, I know pretty much know what his job looks like and it's pretty f***king insane and I feel like it doesn't serve either of us for me to wait for him to remember. And so, yes, that's just not setting us up for success. But it's terrifying to ask. Yes. [00:04:12]

So I was telling [inaudible at 00:04:19] that I wrote him saying I think I'm going to do this and I'm going to be going a couple of days a week, and telling him and he said oh I didn't realize you were that bad. What? Oh, yes, he can't read my mind. [Laughs.] Yes. I get to feeling like I'm ill-used when I don't ask for help and I don't get the help and I'm trying to say you know people can't read your mind, you have to ask for what you want. That's just how it goes. Especially if it would be one thing if I were not telling people but outwardly showing how bad it is. But I in fact spend a whole lot of energy hiding it so if you're actively trying to deceive people you can't get upset when they are deceived. I mean you can but it doesn't do anybody any good.

THERAPIST: I guess it all points to how hard it is to let people know.

CLIENT: Yes. Yes. It feels like I spend a lot more time so one of the things that was actually kind of nice about being in the hospital was it was easier for me to feel bad when I felt bad. And so there were a couple of days in there where I would have more or less giant meltdowns a couple of times a day and that was bad but the rest of the day I felt pretty good. It was like I got it all out or something and then could just go about my life. And that's really, really hard now. I don't know how much it's been absorbing with James and so just not hDanng any time that I'm actually alone. [00:06:43]

THERAPIST: What does a meltdown look like?

CLIENT: Usually I feel kind of anxious or burdened with the stress for a few hours and then there's some kind of triggering event and I just go back to my room and I cry and cry and cry and cry and cry a lot.

THERAPIST: You're lying on the bed sobbing?

CLIENT: Sitting in bed sobbing. And the part that's hard to get to is the part where I stop crying not because I said okay that's enough now, I have to go back to the rest of my life, but because I'm ready to stop crying.

THERAPIST: You're done, [inaudible at 00:07:35]?

CLIENT: Yes. And then I would just kind of sit there against the wall for a little bit and writing, and I've been writing which has actually been good. And then it's time for lunch or it's time to do something else and I am ready to do that thing and I feel light-hearted again. Yes. But it's scary to think that that's being that sad because I really worry that I'll lose control over myself, or I'm not actually worried about losing control; I'm worried that I'll make a stupid decision and try to hurt myself or... [00:08:49]

THERAPIST: I see, so you were safe in the hospital?

CLIENT: That's part of it I think. Yes. And it doesn't -

THERAPIST: I think it would've been physically actually pretty difficult to hurt or kill yourself there.

CLIENT: Yes. Not so difficult to hurt myself but certainly difficult to hurt myself pretty seriously. And also it wasn't hurting anybody else for me to be that sad there. Everybody's sad there. It does not distress [the other employers] (ph) for me to be crying and it really distresses them. I try to be okay with that but I just it's just hard.

THERAPIST: Yes, it's truly hard. So I'm sure you wish you could be more okay with that.

CLIENT: Yes, I think it would be better for us both in the long run. I think he I think it would become less hard for him over time in some ways because it's really hard for him to see the when I show how upset I am for a while then I feel better, that is hard for him to wrap his mind around. So he usually thinks if I look better, he's more comfortable; if I look worse, he's more worried. And those aren't actually good indicators of how I'm doing necessarily, or how I'm doing relatively. [00:10:44]

It was weird. We were at friends last night playing board games. Franco had stepped out to we played a board game.

THERAPIST: You played what?

CLIENT: It's a game; it's a pretty nerdy game to be honest. It's one of these board game prizes. It's fun. It's kind of like Risk but less cut-throat. And Franco had gone to buy some ice. So James and I were talking and I was feeling like there was something off in my conversation, I couldn't quite get in sync with the conversation. And I was talking and enjoying talking, sort of, and I would say things that Franco and James would find hilariously funny but I found marginally funny, and I would say things that I thought were really, really funny and they thought were sort of funny. But it was something wrong and James said no, things are fine, I'm not sure you have to worry about. And I just said that I think part of it is just I'm just so sad and he said oh. And again, he doesn't know or it's hard for him to remember or that I was part of me wanted to be there laughing and part of me didn't want anybody to be laughing because I was so sad. An imbalance half of laugh and cry, I think. [00:12:49]

But on some level it feels like the things that are most true about me are kind of hard to take situations like that. And James did say, Franco and I like you pretty well. We're okay if you need to be sad, that would be fine. But -

THERAPIST: The people.

CLIENT: Yes. Yes.

THERAPIST: I don't know but you're probably right that some of us agree with it it's not entirely okay, apparently, when you're [inaudible at 00:13:52] you really feel. I [inaudible at 00:13:58] means you still have to totally fall apart but -

CLIENT: It hurts.

THERAPIST: Yes.

CLIENT: You know it hurts me when he said you just go in a downward spiral.

THERAPIST: I don't know that it's a [inaudible at 00:14:37] tendency. I'd imagine it is, I really don't know.

CLIENT: I don't think it is. It doesn't seem like I imagined. [00:14:45]

THERAPIST: Yes, it would surprise me.

CLIENT: It would be hard for it to be as I see, as I imagine. [Laughs.] But he's concerned and he doesn't know what to do. Sometimes I want him to help me feel better and sometimes I don't and I don't even really know what to ask for in those situations. And so he ends up getting frustrated because I'm frustrated because he's not helping me in the way that I need but he doesn't know what that way is. There's no way he can know.

I've spent a fair amount of time thinking about Dan yesterday. [inaudible at 00:15:51] two of the last five years, which for some reason now has been [inaudible at 00:15:53] upon him, which is unfortunate because it's a really good show. I guess I've been kind of avoiding thinking about it. I think that's why I've been really angry and really hurt and I don't like me feeling that way towards him. And because every time I try to formulate how I feel angry or hurt, I end up saying well, you know, that's something that you did also Tanya so why are you angry at him for that? [00:16:33]

So yes. Part of me wants to say yes but you know he was 40 and you're 25 and that makes a difference. He was a teacher and you were the student and that makes a difference. You should've known better but he really should've known better. And a part of me says I don't know how much [inaudible at 00:17:06]. In some ways I feel like I was in a position to know better more than he was. But he really loved me. But he really didn't love me enough to leave me alone. It's not really that I am mad at him, you know, I kind of mourned for him in that it's over but [inaudible at 00:18:34]. I miss being able to trust people. And then still I'm like it was okay to like people or to love people. Now I'm feeling like that's good [it ended too] (ph).

THERAPIST: Does that affect things here?

CLIENT: Less than I expect. I always feel like it will but -

THERAPIST: How so?

CLIENT: Because I'm a sucker for male authority figures. I mean, got to be honest. And this is the thing. I knew that going into that. I knew that this is my blind spot. I don't know. I guess I feel like it's not the emotions that were the problem so much as the handling of them and I trust you to handle them [inaudible at 00:20:02] because you're not going to be blindsided by it. But it does affect things here in the sense that I am really worried that you are going to disappear. [00:20:32]

THERAPIST: Any particular reason I'm going to disappear?

CLIENT: I don't know. I worry my insurance will stop covering you or you'll move or I'll have to move or I'm not really aware of how much I worry I'm not really aware of worrying about it until something comes up like Dr. Foley and I think oh I'm really not secure about this relationship at all and the way exactly that it works. Because there's no reason he should have been able to get to me like that outside of my job. But he really got to me.

THERAPIST: Well one of the things I think you're saying is that I'm a real lifeline for you.

CLIENT: And it's scaring me to have that. Right. [00:22:41]

THERAPIST: And, yes, I guess it's scary if you didn't believe or think to have that.

CLIENT: Yes. I guess as I think about it more closely, I'm more exact. I worry or fantasize that I will not live up to my half of this and then you'll leave me. I worry that I won't be smart enough. I won't be worth your time [inaudible at 00:24:07]. You know a lot of -

THERAPIST: There's a sort of pattern, I wonder if it's even scarier in a way to entertain the possibility that this really isn't as contingent on those sorts of things as you worry that it is.

CLIENT: I'm not sure how it is scary but it's certainly hard for me to get my head around because in one way or another most of my relationships with people who support me have been contingent on my being far enough for them to see it. [00:25:39]

THERAPIST: My [inaudible at 00:25:49] even scarier phase would feel close to me in even scarier ways if you are confident it didn't really matter to me how far you were or how hard you worked, or things like that.

CLIENT: I don't think I see that. I guess I just don't see how that cannot matter or I have a hard time envisioning an analogous relationship. I don't know. Yes, yes. You know, I can believe in a belief and assume that my father's love for me is not contingent on this phase but it feels like it. And I know my mom [inaudible at 00:28:46] so.

THERAPIST: How?

CLIENT: It feels pretty clear that this, maybe not their actual, their love of me as some separate entity onto itself, but certainly in the way that they are loving to me. Have I f***ked up that badly in the last 15 years so it's hard for me to so I don't have the counter example in some ways but, yes. It sure feels like ever since my dad got a lot better once I started getting my schoolwork done, once I started having my shit together. Yes, yes. [inaudible at 00:29:57] that it's terrifying for both of us is that being married is that that means [inaudible at 00:30:09]; being married you don't move around a lot. And it's pretty scary [inaudible at 00:30:15] think how vulnerable that makes me to the other person. [00:30:20]

So on the one hand I know there's nothing I can do that would make James leave me but on the other hand I am, I desperately don't want him to regret that commitment. And I feel like I can make him regret.

THERAPIST: It feels kind of, sort of he does not in any way really get you out of the worry.

CLIENT: No, not really because he kind of stressed to me I need to know when you're down. The nice thing about James is that I do feel reasonably confident that he actually likes who I am [laughs] what? You look like that should be a surprising thing or it should not be a surprising thing. It's a surprising thing. So that is very, very hard for me to get on that way because to be my truest self is to be the person that James really likes. [00:32:04]

THERAPIST: That works out.

CLIENT: Yes, [inaudible at 00:32:10]. Even their (ph) iteration of my less-true self [inaudible at 00:32:30]. He still likes me pretty well when I'm super depressed. I don't know why. I wonder how much of that had to do with not crying all the time, but -

THERAPIST: Sure, I'm sure that's what he -

CLIENT: [Laughing] yes. So I guess, to return to you, I don't know what I don't know if that would work for me. I sort of daily envision a situation in which it really doesn't matter how smart I am; I can't really envision a situation where it doesn't really matter how hard I work.

THERAPIST: You mean from my point of view, that stuff doesn't matter at all in the way that you feel it does in your closest relationships. I don't know about your mom [inaudible at 00:34:07] talk about hurting so much but I think I know in one way; I certainly know about James.

CLIENT: Yes, I mean I believe you I just don't understand.

THERAPIST: Okay, all right. [00:34:23]

CLIENT: Yes, it's sort of like I've come to acknowledge the fact that being smart is not going to make me any less depressed or working hard is not necessarily going to make me any less depressed, but I still don't quite understand how that could be. Yes, that starts to feel like out of peace with the rest of my life in the sense that I'm basically f***ked no matter what I do but doesn't make any sense. I know that's not because those aren't actually the same things but I feel like they're the same things.

THERAPIST: No, what I was saying was I think [inaudible at 00:35:32] which was I think those are probably ways you keep your distance and that facilitates your having this other more isolated side that wants to die, doesn't want to work, doesn't want to think it through. You just f***king know a lot of shit I think to the extent that you feel convinced that other people need you to be working hard, smart, chin up, you get to keep the other side to yourself. [00:36:56]

CLIENT: That makes sense.

THERAPIST: And it probably [inaudible at 00:37:05] and then it's like then f***k all of them and their expectations. Which isn't fair; I'm sure you're very guilty and so forth.

CLIENT: Yes, but [00:37:22] one step away from -

THERAPIST: And work. For what it's worth I think there is a whole lot about what you grew up with that where you needed a stint (ph) outside like that and those people around seeing what your parents couldn't really deal with or bear well who wanted the things that you felt that caused a I'm not there were good reasons I think that just developed this way. I don't mean to kind of -

CLIENT: No, I know what you mean.

THERAPIST: Just the way I see it as being a bad guy for that. [00:38:25]

CLIENT: Yes. There can be good reasons for me having it in the first place that don't necessarily entail my needs right now, [inaudible at 00:38:42]?

THERAPIST: Yes I mean -

CLIENT: I really think I do. Let's be clear. [Laughing]

THERAPIST: [inaudible at 00:38:49] that you use it now.

CLIENT: So this is not a two-minute question, but so how do you deal with that then? Sorry, I told you it's not a two-minute question. You don't have to answer it. [Laughs.] It's just you're absolutely right and I do not know how to turn it off.

THERAPIST: Well here's a new answer to that question. You know, if you stick with how you feel and it actually seems true to both of us, part of it will come out in the wash. [00:40:03]

CLIENT: Good. Good. One thing I am afraid of, thousands of things I am afraid of, but one thing I'm afraid of is that if I pay too much attention to that part of me as a survival skill, if I let that part of me come to [inaudible], I don't know whether that's grounded in reality or not but it's a very easy excuse for me to kind of keep to the status quo. And when you get right down to it, I really don't want to be alive. I'm real sick of it. And sometimes [inaudible at 00:42:13] that helps alleviate it; sometimes it doesn't. Today saying okay I feel better now. [00:42:23]

THERAPIST: And other times you just think you're more sure of it?

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: Well one part among the others of the problem I think is this way that you sort of set things up or that you experience things where you're some of the feelings that feel the truest and the hardest and the scariest are the ones you're going to keep most to yourself, which I think means that well, the people closest to you are letting you down.

CLIENT: Are?

THERAPIST: That means [inaudible at 00:43:55] you ever feel that way. I mean yes, as grown-ups we can both sit back and say well in fact I can't read minds, but f***k that. I mean -

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: we should stop for now.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: Yes, sure. [00:44:29]

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