TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

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CLIENT: I wanted to make let you know so that if you had someone else you wanted to put in that slot, you could.

THERAPIST: I appreciate it.

CLIENT: Next week Thursday I’m out, too. I’m going to be in Montana [ ] (inaudible at 00:00:13).

THERAPIST: Let me just write that down. I may have something on Friday morning this week at 9:15.

CLIENT: That’s a little too late.

THERAPIST: Today is the 12th, so it’s the 20th? Okay.

CLIENT: Work is demoralizing right now. [00:00:59] I don’t know if I told you this, but the project I was supposed to work on from December 13 until August 14 got canceled, so they just threw all of the architects on the project we were supposed to start working on in August; and, of course, the project plan architect was not expecting 100 architects eight months early. So the project architect didn’t have any work for us to do, so we’ve all been kind of wandering around aimlessly trying to do things that are semi-useful. At my manager’s level, all of the managers are being pressured because we’re in this weird situation where the project I’m working on now, is the follow-on to another project, but it isn’t done and is behind schedule. It is still in the early phase of the project when they were expecting to be in the middle phase by now, so we can’t build off of Zen because there is nothing there to build off of. So we’re just kind of like . . . [00:02:02]

My mentor there, Brian, actually has been using that gesture a lot in meetings with the bosses to explain why he’s not doing anything right now. Anyway, work is demoralizing, but (sighs) my boss has made a couple of comments about how I’m distracted at work and use the Internet too much and I look like I’m not engaged, so I’m trying really hard not to Internet at work and not to look at my phone. My boss notices and comments on that if I’m looking at my phone a lot or on the Internet a lot. It’s hard, because I don’t really feel like I have anything to do and my boss, Chris, finally gave me a task last week and gave me a deadline and Brian did it, also, and finished it half a day earlier than I did. Honestly, I could have finished it two days earlier than the deadline Chris gave me if I had been working, not at some theoretical peak efficiency, but even at what I know is my personal average efficiency – not even my personal fast pace. I’ve been far below my average for a while now. [00:03:12] (pause) I’ve kind of had a bit of a [ ] (inaudible at 00:03:17) persona instead of (chuckles) doing any work. [She said it doesn’t suck.] (ph?) (long pause) [00:05:14]

THERAPIST: I guess at work, in a way it’s like nobody is really doing their job.

CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) I don’t know. This is the longest I’ve ever held one job before. I don’t hate it, it’s just that I don’t feel like I’m very good at it and I feel like I’m just building up this massive amount of ill will towards myself.

THERAPIST: From other people?

CLIENT: Yes. [00:06:01] (pause)

THERAPIST: I do wonder in my usual sort of way, whether it also feels like neither of us are doing our jobs here. What I have in mind is I don’t imagine that you really think that I’m not doing my job, that I’m not listening or that I have nothing to say or that I have no idea what’s going on with you or anything like that, but I could imagine, at another level, things aren’t getting better as quickly as you want, I bet, and there are still things that you’re struggling quite a lot with – work and sleep, I imagine, and other things. [00:07:03]

CLIENT: Part of that is my fault because medication would help, but I haven’t called – is his name [Dr. Peabody?] (ph?)

THERAPIST: In Concord.

CLIENT: And I could have called him and scheduled an appointment. I don’t know. The phone is really intimidating.

THERAPIST: Do you want his e-mail? Would that make a difference?

CLIENT: Yes, please. I didn’t realize he did.

THERAPIST: I think so. I think I have an address for him that is like [doctornPeabody,] (ph?). I’m assuming that’s a work e-mail. I’m sorry. I hadn’t realized – which I should have, I guess – that might have made the difference.

CLIENT: Thank you.

THERAPIST: Sure. Maybe I’ll take a minute at the end just to make sure that I write that down. [00:08:01] So you don’t feel like you’re doing all of your job either, but I suspect that you feel kind of like both. Again, I don’t know if there are also ways that you kind of feel like I’m not doing what I should be doing, but I do imagine it in this sense of I’m not getting better as I want to as fast as I want to. (both chuckle) Brian, what the hell? At that level, I imagine you feel some of that.

CLIENT: There is also another level where I don’t actually believe I will ever get better. It’s just always going to be a horrible struggle. [00:09:02] (pause)

THERAPIST: From that vantage point, this feels like an exercise in futility?

CLIENT: Well, no. It’s an exercise in coping skills, I guess.

THERAPIST: I see. So it’s not like something will ever change; it’s more like fundamentally how you feel and how things go won’t change, but maybe you’ll have some better ways to deal with it or manage it.

CLIENT: Yes. (pause) [00:10:07] I’ve been depressed and have had problems with motivation and apathy and lack of engagement with what I’m doing since I was a teenager pretty consistently. There have been good days and even good weeks, but there hasn’t been a reasonably long span of time where I haven’t felt cripplingly, crushingly unable to have a life. (long pause) [00:11:46]

THERAPIST: I imagine you feel actually kind of fairly sure that that won’t really change. (pause) In that way, kind of hopeless.

CLIENT: Yep. (pause) [00:12:26] But really, is feeling hopeless such a bad thing? Maybe it’s just a function of the depression, but I kind of feel like false hope is even worse than feeling hopeless.

THERAPIST: Sure. Sure. I guess another way of putting it would be that seems realistic rather than deluding yourself. In other words, you would be deluding yourself if you were [ ] (inaudible at 00:12:59). (pause) [00:13:09]

CLIENT: Even though I don’t expect that I will ever actually get better, I don’t think these sessions are a waste of time because if nothing helps, coming here and unpacking things makes me better able to get through my week. (long pause) [00:14:34]

THERAPIST: I imagine it must feel to you as though I’ve then been a bit deluded if I thought things could change. (pause)

CLIENT: No. That’s your job, right? Things can change and you can be an actor in that change. [00:15:02] That’s kind of what you’re here for, right?

THERAPIST: It’s complicated in that I guess what I’m pointing to, what I imagine, is the sense that you have that we’ve seen this differently. In other words, for you, to cope a little better and attack stuff in a way that lets some air in and makes the week easier. It is absolutely a good thing and it’s unfortunate that things won’t more basically change, but that still helps and that’s still good. [00:15:57] I guess I imagine that you have seen me as having grander visions and, I guess, what I’m interested in is what I imagine is that discrepancy in your mind.

CLIENT: I actually haven’t [ ] (inaudible at 00:16:23) until just now. (long pause) [00:17:29]

THERAPIST: I guess one reason I’m mentioning it and that I think about it is because I think that must be familiar. If it’s there, even if you haven’t thought about it, and maybe it just isn’t there and I’m kind of barking up the wrong tree, I imagine that might be a familiar feeling for you in the sense of knowing how bad or hopeless things are in the way that the people around you don’t seem to know. I guess it seems like it could be or, at least, for you, if not in general. [00:18:06] I imagine that to be part of your depression and maybe another way to put it is part of [ ] (inaudible at 00:18:14) for you. (pause)

CLIENT: There is a part of me that still is astonished that I’m still alive. I spent all of my teenager-hood and most of my 20’s expecting that I would kill myself before I turned 30, and yet I’m still here and am going to be older in a month. [00:18:48] (long pause)

THERAPIST: You figured you would just get old enough to just be sure you were done?

CLIENT: No, not even. I couldn’t imagine being able to hang on that long. [00:20:03] (pause)

THERAPIST: Maybe a little like what you were saying about your job, that it’s demoralizing and you feel like you’re building this mountain of ill will, and yet somehow it’s lasted longer than other jobs you’ve had before which, I guess, is kind of surprising. Like that.

CLIENT: Yep. (pause) [00:21:13]

THERAPIST: [Just take a second while I send you the e-mail and process it.] (ph?)

CLIENT: I’ll try to be on time next time. Sorry.

THERAPIST: I’m pretty sure this is fine. Doctor L. Peabody. Do you want me to text it to you or is e-mail better?

CLIENT: I don’t know. It all goes to my phone.

THERAPIST: Have a nice day.

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