TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:
1004967660 MA 1 2 13
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:
CLIENT: Hi.
THERAPIST: Hi.
CLIENT: So I've actually been doing okay.
THERAPIST: Well good. It's great to hear that.
CLIENT: Yeah, I'm pretty proud of myself, actually.
THERAPIST: Well great.
CLIENT: And I'm doing well.
THERAPIST: Good. That's actually wonderful.
CLIENT: Yeah. You were right. (Laughter) I'm surprised, really.
THERAPIST: [Interposing]
CLIENT: Yeah, it was no, the -
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: I was feeling pretty abandoned at the end of that, which I didn't realize at all until like halfway through last week. I was like trying to go to bed and James was downstairs and it was really cold in the room and I was like, [inaudible 0:00:51] why don't they fucking turn the heat up in this house and started weeping. And it was like, okay, yeah, yeah, Chad [ph 00:01:04] is right.
THERAPIST: Mm.
CLIENT: So. Yeah. I don't think I am still, but I didn't think I was to begin with, so I don't know. (Pause) Yeah. Yeah, I made it.
THERAPIST: Yep. Absolutely. [00:01:38]
CLIENT: I feel like maybe the Geodon [ph 0:01:42] is helping. To inject the Geodon and not the [inaudible 0:01:45] because I don't have the side effects that it was giving me before. [inaudible 0:01:49] but there is some interaction between the two. And it just feels like I can kind of get it and manage things. Managing things there is sometimes that, but, yeah. It's good to be here.
THERAPIST: Well, welcome back.
CLIENT: Thanks. I get very scared whenever I don't see you for a week or more. I get scared that things are going to be different. (Pause) [00:02:42]
THERAPIST: In any particular way?
CLIENT: (Pause) I guess I'm mostly afraid you won't be as gentle with me as you usually are that and be upset with me. Or that you will be the kind of person that gets upset with me. But I am also afraid that you will just say you don't want to do that anymore or switch careers or something. Just that things will be different.
THERAPIST: Um hm.
CLIENT: I suppose I'm also scared that now I feel like I'm doing really well and I'm afraid that now you'll be like, "Actually, I think you feel like this" and it'll be like, "Oh, crap, now I feel horrible again." So there's that. [00:03:51]
THERAPIST: [Interposing] think that too.
CLIENT: Yeah. You know, I've been there has been a lot of kind of can I make it to Wednesday. Not so much that it's been especially hard, but, you know, especially the last couple of work days have been hard. I've been doing a lot of distracting things and trying to say I've been distracting myself a lot. Watching a lot of TV; reading a lot. Drinking some. (Pause) [00:04:44]
So yeah and I guess "fear" is kind of the watchword.
THERAPIST: Um hm.
CLIENT: And really the talk with James about job searches. You know, we agreed that I'm really just going to focus on teaching jobs.
THERAPIST: Um hm.
CLIENT: I'm going to you know, look for substitute teaching positions and [inaudible 0:05:14] long term teaching positions, but that that's really the thing to do.
THERAPIST: [inaudible 00:05:24]? Sort of anything you can find?
CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. I feel much more confident about that and much better about doing that job, so...
THERAPIST: Um hm.
CLIENT: So, you know, we got back and the next morning I woke up and I guess this would be the day before yesterday I woke up and said, "Okay. I am unemployed now. I have to be doing something to look for a job." So I have been kind of keeping busy the last couple of days as also a way to kind of be less anxious. [00:06:06]
THERAPIST: Um hm.
CLIENT: My [inaudible 00:06:09]'s okay.
THERAPIST: Um hm.
CLIENT: I [inaudible 00:06:22]. James and I are in a really good place.
THERAPIST: Well, good. Good.
CLIENT: Yeah. I guess going home a pretty similar thing happened to what's happened when I've been in the hospital, of just being in a completely different environment, being completely away from the things that I've been worried about. You know, we have other things that I have been worried about, but feeling like they weren't as bad or I was more equipped to handle them. And (pause) yeah, I guess I just feel like I had another wind had a second wind or something. [00:07:18]
THERAPIST: Um hm.
CLIENT: I'm scared, though because realistically speaking, things are probably going to get bad again.
THERAPIST: Um hm.
CLIENT: And the likelihood is that there won't be they'll probably get bad again pretty soon.
THERAPIST: Um hm. When did you get back up here?
CLIENT: On the 30th.
THERAPIST: Um hm.
CLIENT: The night of the 30th. I saw Mom on the 30th and it was actually a very, very good visit.
THERAPIST: Mm.
CLIENT: Yeah, she thought so, too, which was nice.
THERAPIST: Um hm.
CLIENT: She's like, "This is the [inaudible 00:07:56]. Yeah and, you know, there were a couple of awkward moments, but like when she told me that she kept calling me Marla in her mind. Marla is her younger sister because to me they're kind of we're kind of the same person. (Chuckles) Or fill the same role. She's like, "I guess that I feel very maternal towards Marla." I was like, "Maybe it's because you don't feel very maternal towards me." (Chuckles) [00:08:32]
THERAPIST: Um hm.
CLIENT: But that's okay. She's been going through her grandparents papers. Her grandmother died awhile back, I guess, but she's had all this stuff and she's just going through it. So she's she talked a lot about her parents' lives and her grandparents' lives and a lot of stuff I didn't know. You know, I didn't know that my grandfather didn't go to seminary until after he got married.
THERAPIST: [inaudible 00:09:16]
CLIENT: Agnostic. He was a convert. My grandmother thought she was marrying a composer. Ha ha. Sucks to be her (laughter).
THERAPIST: (Chuckles)
CLIENT: Yeah, he was this hot, young composer. She was a student.
THERAPIST: Um hm.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: And he decided that that's not what he wanted to do?
CLIENT: Yeah, he played the organ. He had a, like, side job playing the organ at an Episcopal church and he just listened to the sermons, was baptized, then went to Seminary the next year which I am amazed that they let him do that. That's not usual. But he was extremely gifted and, lots of great [interposing].
THERAPIST: Oh.
CLIENT: He was a pretty great pretty good composer and amazing musician. I think just very, very bright. Not very nice. Very, very bright. [00:10:30]
THERAPIST: Um hm.
CLIENT: But yeah, we went to visit some estates; toured the mansion and all of that.
THERAPIST: Um hm.
CLIENT: I feel really good about the way we set it [inaudible 00:11:05] up. So we were very clear about wanting to see Mom without my siblings and then she suggested doing something and that would work really well. Like going and doing something. Like going and taking a visit and looking around. [00:11:24]
THERAPIST: Right. Yes.
CLIENT: Which was, I think, much better than going back to her apartment. And (pause) yeah. Both she and my mother in law gave us electric kettles. (Laughter) Which uhhh that happens to my mother in law a lot. Like she thinks people think that other people get them the same thing a lot and I think it drives her nuts. So I think we're not just not going to tell anyone.
THERAPIST: (Chuckles) Right.
CLIENT: You know, if and when I get a job teaching [inaudible 0:12:14].
THERAPIST: Mm.
CLIENT: Yeah, I'm really scared. [00:12:28]
THERAPIST: I get it.
CLIENT: Yeah. And I'm really thinking about it.
THERAPIST: What do you mean?
CLIENT: Saying, "Yes, I'm scared" then decide how to take everything as it comes. (Pause)
THERAPIST: I wonder if part of what you're scared of here is not knowing what you did wrong to get kicked out of here for a week and a half or whatever time.
CLIENT: Hm...I wonder if it's more I know when I didn't do anything wrong. I feel like there must have been something. I don't like to think that it seems like things that are so important to me can just stop and there can not be anything that I've done to do it.
THERAPIST: Um hm.
CLIENT: So maybe I'm scared that I didn't do anything.
THERAPIST: I see.
CLIENT: I'm glad you're okay.
THERAPIST: Thanks. You mean from being sick or just in general?
CLIENT: Yeah, [inaudible 00:14:15]
THERAPIST: Were you worried?
CLIENT: A little bit. Not really. I figured it was probably the flu. (Pause) [inaudible 00:14:43] seems like you need to be fairly incapacitated to take time off. You do. (Chuckles)
THERAPIST: Me.
CLIENT: Yes. (Chuckles) So (chuckles) I imagined things must be pretty unpleasant for you.
THERAPIST: (Chuckles) Um hm. [00:15:04]
CLIENT: Yeah, I mean I guess it also it is scary to me how much I need to be here.
THERAPIST: Um hm.
CLIENT: And you know, I don't quite know how to I don't know how to imagine a world in which you don't let me down in some pretty significant way eventually. So I'm sort of waiting for the other shoe to drop. [00:15:56]
THERAPIST: For that shoe to drop, yeah.
CLIENT: I've thought about this a lot in conjunction with what has sort of happened with this priest at my church, Mark.
THERAPIST: Um hm.
CLIENT: He left. It was really hard for me to ask him for help and I did it because people say I should ask for help and because he asked if there was anything he could do and it just didn't happen.
THERAPIST: Um hm.
CLIENT: And there is, you know, lots of good and less good reasons for that, I'm sure, and I can come up with several plausible and good reasons, but that doesn't [inaudible 0:16:57]. Like, I don't care.
THERAPIST: Um hm.
CLIENT: I don't care that you're sick. I don't care that it's Christmas. I don't care.
THERAPIST: Yeah. [inaudible 0:17:19] doesn't matter.
CLIENT: Yeah. I feel like I ought to know. (Long pause) I'm not sure why (pause) things were as much easier for me as they have been at home.
THERAPIST: Um hm. .
CLIENT: So it's back to [inaudible 0:18:01] distance. You know, it worked out okay.
THERAPIST: Um hm. Yeah. [00:18:09]
CLIENT: You know, I'm going to be okay with Mark. Everything's fine in some way. But there's this this thread of being really disappointed in him.
THERAPIST: Um hm. What thoughts go along with that?
CLIENT: I'm sorry?
THERAPIST: What thoughts go along with that? The disappointment in him?
CLIENT: Being upset with myself for asking in the first place and thinking by asking for help I allowed him to fail me [inaudible 00:19:16] because I wouldn't be disappointed in him if I hadn't asked for anything [00:19:21]
THERAPIST: Um hm.
CLIENT: Just thinking he misses it the way it should be.
THERAPIST: Um hm.
CLIENT: He should have known better. (Pause) Wishing it were more important.
THERAPIST: Um hm.
CLIENT: Thinking it should matter that I don't want to die most of the time.
THERAPIST: Um hm.
CLIENT: Like that should make a difference. [00:20:03]
THERAPIST: Um hm.
CLIENT: And then thinking, no of course it shouldn't matter. (Long pause) You know, thinking if I can do without this, how important is it really? You know, I am doing without it. I'm not really sure what he could do anyway. I'm not sure that any concern that he did express or anything that he did do would actually be enough, so... So I just [inaudible 00:21:03] of myself for having like -
THERAPIST: I see, yeah, these all sound, I guess, like in part, ways of (pause) like talking yourself down from how hurtful it is or sort of backing off without [inaudible 0:21:27]
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: That you asked for help from him and he didn't help.
CLIENT: Yeah. [00:21:38]
(Long pause) I can't tell how much I'm just really unwilling to face the possibility that he might have hurt me and how much I just am not hurt.
THERAPIST: Um hm.
CLIENT: Like I said, it's scary to me to need this so much.
THERAPIST: Um hm. I think that thought puts you in a terribly vulnerable position.
CLIENT: I [inaudible 0:22:48].
THERAPIST: Um hm.
CLIENT: But I knew you weren't going to say it. (Chuckles)
THERAPIST: (Chuckles) Yes.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: [inaudible 0:22:56] cover.
CLIENT: (Long pause) Yeah, and this is so much bigger and more important than the ways that I asked for help from Mark. And (pause) and kind of exactly what I need. Exactly. And that's I don't understand that at all. (Pause) So I feel like it's just going to stop and I'll have to deal with that. (Long pause) [00:24:23]
And I don't know how to deal with that. (Long pause) I think both it's going to stop and it won't be anything that I've done, but it will also be my fault.
THERAPIST: Um hm. Sure. [00:25:08]
CLIENT: Yeah. Feels kind of being both helpless and guilty.
THERAPIST: Yeah. I'd imagine that there's almost some way you want it to stop because it is so hard to bear this like excruciating worry that will blindside you.
CLIENT: Yeah. I'd rather have it over.
THERAPIST: Yeah. [00:25:47]
CLIENT: You know, it feels like I'm not doing anything to make this happen, so it's not in my control and that I don't need it and somehow I feel like that.
THERAPIST: Um hm. Yeah, and [inaudible 0:26:25] finding it difficult for you to be putting yourself in someone else's hands or my hands in that way.
CLIENT: [inaudible 0:26:44] it.
THERAPIST: Um hm.
CLIENT: Or nothing else is good.
THERAPIST: Um hm.
CLIENT: You have to do everything, but...
THERAPIST: Um hm.
CLIENT: [inaudible 0:26:58] might be worse (long pause). You know, it's sort of like halfway expecting James to hit me or come in with fight [ph 0:27:34].
THERAPIST: Um hm. (Pause) My hunch is that you are disappointed in and maybe even angry with me for taking off on you for awhile. But that you're really worried about what would happen if you were aware of that felt that way, talked to me about it. I think if you really felt that way, you'd probably feel you had to bring it up. I imagine that not only is scary, but I imagine that maybe it's one part of what's actually scaring you maybe now. [00:29:03]
CLIENT: I suspect you're probably right. But I feel like I don't have any way back [ph 0:29:10].
THERAPIST: Yeah, sure.
CLIENT: You're right that I would feel like I had to bring it up.
THERAPIST: Yeah. (Long pause) Yeah, if I really sort of go long on that one with a sense of, like, [inaudible 0:29:56] like I wonder if you -
CLIENT: I was just laughing because you explained [interposing] [laughter].
THERAPIST: I guess I wonder if you might possibly even have a worry that your being upset or angry or disappointed last week caused me to be sick.
CLIENT: (Chuckles) That is pretty [inaudible 0:30:37].
THERAPIST: Yeah. I know, obviously, that is not the kind of thing you would consciously, or in that sort of grown up mentality, worry about.
CLIENT: Hm... Sounds awful. I can't tell.
THERAPIST: Sure. Yeah.
CLIENT: I feel like I'm (pause) kind of frozen up all around that area and when I try to get close to it, I freeze up.
THERAPIST: Yeah, sure. [00:31:25]
CLIENT: I don't know...
THERAPIST: Yeah. I guess what's clear is that something about even the possibility, whatever is there, whether you're sad or something quite different, is very frightening.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: I think that that that's the part of it that you're mostly in touch with, just feeling scared.
CLIENT: Yes. I have all these different reasons; all these different things to be scared of [inaudible 0:32:08] just feel scared.
THERAPIST: Um hm.
CLIENT: Thinking about I feel like if I don't talk to you about this, then it's going bad [ph 0:32:32]. I'm afraid you won't be patient with me for this.
THERAPIST: Mm.
CLIENT: So I have to talk about it.
THERAPIST: I see. And (pause) and it's a way of placating me.
CLIENT: Yeah, I guess so. [00:32:59]
You know, there's also the part where it is helpful and satisfying for me and I know that. But that's (pause) slightly more difficult.
THERAPIST: Um hm. (Long pause) I guess it's (pause) inconceivable that I would (pause) be here for you in any case wherever you happen to [inaudible 0:34:14] to talk about it. [Interposing]
CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I even have trouble following that sentence. (Chuckles)
THERAPIST: Hm.
CLIENT: My mind just skips right over it. [inaudible 0:34:39] (Long pause)
I feel like I'm holding on very tightly and trying very hard to have things be just the same.
THERAPIST: Hm.
CLIENT: [inaudible 00:35:33] fruitless and all of those things.
THERAPIST: Mm.
CLIENT: I guess what I'm really worried about or what I think of is that my doing so much better last week made me (chuckles) think.
THERAPIST: Oh (chuckles).
CLIENT: [inaudible 0:36:41]
THERAPIST: Um hm.
CLIENT: It's like I don't need her as much, so now you can get sick.
THERAPIST: I see. (Long pause) I don't know I guess I was thinking there is a smidge of reality to that in that, I mean, you know if you had really been in danger and crisis, I would have made sure that we at least [inaudible 00:38:18].
CLIENT: Yeah, I know. [00:38:18]
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: I'm glad that didn't have to happen.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: [inaudible 00:38:32] don't be sick [ph 00:38:33].
THERAPIST: Right. (Pause) But clearly, only one of us can be well.
CLIENT: Of course. (Chuckles)
THERAPIST: (Chuckles)
CLIENT: Oooh...(chuckles) Yeah. (Pause) [inaudible 00:39:55]
THERAPIST: No.
CLIENT: What do you know...someone working [inaudible 00:40:16] to feel like I was allowed to feel better. Thank goodness for that. [00:40:20]
THERAPIST: (Chuckles)
CLIENT: I worry that I won't be smart enough.
THERAPIST: Hm. Like for me? For this process?
CLIENT: Mm.
THERAPIST: For me?
CLIENT: And for the process. (Pause) I am getting really good at that board game where a [inaudible 0:41:11].
THERAPIST: Um hm.
CLIENT: I beat James like five times. I won a lot when we were playing with James's brother.
THERAPIST: (Laughter)
CLIENT: I also found out that Franco is ranked in like the top two percent of people who play that game.
THERAPIST: Oh.
CLIENT: So I feel better about losing to him.
THERAPIST: Um hm.
CLIENT: I love Franco. [inaudible 0:41:37] adorable.
THERAPIST: (Chuckles) Now does he always beat James?
CLIENT: Yeah, he always beats us both.
THERAPIST: Um hm.
CLIENT: I guess not always. James has won some. I'm interested to see what James would feel like now. I feel like it was like I just got strategy somehow or it started fitting together. That's reassuring to me. [Interposing]
THERAPIST: Laughter. [00:42:15]
CLIENT: But...well...
THERAPIST: I think that you were smart enough and you would have figured this one out, too.
CLIENT: Something like that, yeah. But yeah, figuring a game out makes me feel confident [ph 0:42:39].
THERAPIST: Um hm. Sure, it is really reassuring when the world works that way. You put your mind to it, it makes sense, you can do really well at it.
CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Although I'm not sure it's it didn't feel like I was putting my mind to it in a specific way.
THERAPIST: [Interposing] kind of playing. [00:43:06]
CLIENT: I was kind of playing and thinking about it and then one day I sat down and I'm like, "Oh, these all fit together in this way."
THERAPIST: Um hm.
CLIENT: But, yeah, that is reassuring. I don't feel like there is I mean, I don't feel like I'm missing so much, not like there's gaps, but I just can't see -
THERAPIST: Um hm.
CLIENT: Because the worst is not knowing what you're going to say or what you might do.
THERAPIST: I see. That's when you're really in danger.
CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. You know, it's like it's going to hurt somebody's feelings but I didn't realize [inaudible 0:44:00].
THERAPIST: Mm.
CLIENT: How do you ever pay close enough attention?
THERAPIST: Mm. (Pause) Yeah, especially if they don't tend to talk much about what their feelings are.
CLIENT: Yeah. But it's not excuse, right?
THERAPIST: Clearly.
CLIENT: (Chuckles) Yeah. (Long pause) Do you think I had somebody booked [ph 00:45:04]?
THERAPIST: No.
CLIENT: Okay.
[Interposing] [Laughter]
THERAPIST: I didn't think you were jut referring to me, but I think I was fairly included in the...
CLIENT: Okay. That's what I thought because of what you said. [00:45:16]
THERAPIST: Yeah, it's all right.
CLIENT: That's okay.
THERAPIST: So I yeah, I mean, I think it works across the board because people can be difficult to read or be ambiguous or they just haven't said anything, but -
CLIENT: Especially you.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: (Laughter)
THERAPIST: I think, you know, just sort of by virtue of how this was set out, it's not because I think I'm especially -
CLIENT: Yeah, that's fine. I guess I don't think about that very much. [00:45:53]
THERAPIST: Hm.
CLIENT: Like I don't I feel like I won't worry very much about hurting your feelings.
THERAPIST: Um hm.
CLIENT: Sometimes I think I don't worry enough about hurting your feelings.
THERAPIST: I was imagining it was kind of like part of the you know, a gestalt of not having this or things that were I'm coming from sort of figured out in a way that is very reassuring.
CLIENT: Yeah. That's not enough [inaudible 0:46:28] and I definitely feel like I don't have -
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: this or where you're coming from figured out. Yeah.
THERAPIST: Um hm.
CLIENT: I feel like I spend a lot of my time telling myself it's okay not to.
THERAPIST: Um hm.
CLIENT: [inaudible 0:46:48] (Chuckles) That's something, too.
THERAPIST: We should finish up for now. We'll talk tomorrow.
END TRANSCRIPT
