TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: So right at this moment, I am okay. (Laughs) I feel like I should have a party.

THERAPIST: (Laughs) I'm glad to hear that.

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah. Applying for a job. I'm going to go turn in my application to officially withdraw from school after this (unclear).

THERAPIST: You have to apply to withdraw now?

CLIENT: Yeah, I know. (Laughs) I don't have a [detective] (ph) (unclear) application, but I think it says "application" on the form, so, I mean, what are they going to tell me? [00:00:51]

But more importantly, I changed my bags around; I'm not carrying school bags around with me. It took me a long time to notice that that was a bag like I just don't pay any attention to it.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: And it was like this is not okay anymore. (Laughs)

THERAPIST: Yeah.

(Pause): [00:01:19 00:01:27]

CLIENT: I told them I wasn't coming back to ECT. I feel like I (inaudible). I sort of feel like I'm putting my foot down or something. (inaudible).

(Pause): [00:01:41 00:01:52]

CLIENT: I still kind of want to kill myself, but not as much. (Laughs)

THERAPIST: All right.

CLIENT: Yeah.

(Pause): [00:01:59 00:02:10]

CLIENT: Tutoring is really good.

THERAPIST: Good. That was the first day that on Saturday was (cross talk) -

CLIENT: And it went really well.

THERAPIST: Good.

CLIENT: The kids are super smart. Yeah. Very, very bright kids.

THERAPIST: Where are they in school?

CLIENT: I was working with two kids in fifth or sixth grade? And I have one boy in eighth grade. So, younger than would be ideal for me to work with, but they were really fun.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah. It was we couldn't get as much done as I would have liked to because their previous tutor didn't know whether the next person would want to continue on with the books they were reading so we hadn't assigned any homework for them Saturday. So we just kind of said, 'well, let's just do what we can with what we have.'

THERAPIST: Is this like, enrichment?

CLIENT: Yeah. This a woman from South Vietnam has just a small company for, I think specifically for Vietnam kids. Yeah, because I mean I can guarantee you none of these kids are having trouble in school.

THERAPIST: Right. (inaudible). [00:03:30]

CLIENT: Pardon?

THERAPIST: Nothing has to be wrong for you to have a lot of tutoring in (unclear).

CLIENT: Yeah. I've heard (unclear) for school kids. So, yeah. So I mean the biggest problem I think is going to be for me to keep up but it's not going to be much of a problem, I hope. (Laughs) But you know, I'll be working, so that's good.

THERAPIST: Okay. Do you see them in a group or do you see them -?

CLIENT: I see the two fifth graders together, the ninth grader (unclear). Yeah, they're reading "The Gold Compass," the fifth graders are, which is one of my favorites.

THERAPIST: That's pretty good therapy.

CLIENT: Yeah. (Laughs) Yeah, I think these are not books they're reading for school. I think they're just working on reading comprehension and vocabulary. Yeah, they have a lot to I could see them having a tutor just for vocabulary because there are just a lot of words they don't know. But I don't know. It's a little bit of a stretch. (Laughs) So, yeah. And I had an interview with a woman who's looking for a tutor for her son that didn't go as well they've only been in the states for like two months so she doesn't speak like any English at all. And I'm not very good at like working through a language barrier like that. I need to work on it and she was like almost a half an hour late for our appointment and I told her that I didn't meet today and it was like, 'oh no, I can't because I have a doctor's appointment.' I have a meeting with Dr. (unclear) this afternoon. And then I told her I could come by tomorrow evening and then after I left I realized that no, I can't because we're having dinner with Franco. So, I don't know whether she will want to hire me or not I had to cancel twice. But, we'll see.

(Pause): [00:06:20 00:06:36]

CLIENT: But it's really nice to be working with kids again. I just like it so much.

(Pause): [00:06:42 00:07:03]

CLIENT: Yeah, I like it. I'm going to (unclear).

THERAPIST: Good.

CLIENT: Yeah.

(Pause): [00:07:08 00:07:25]

CLIENT: I'm still pretty much convinced I'm never going to find a real job. But I don't think that's fair. I just -

THERAPIST: How that feels.

CLIENT: How that feels, yeah.

(Pause): [00:07:36 00:07:57]

CLIENT: Things are kind of tough with James. About half the time they're tough and about half the time they're really good. And it's unclear to me what is making the difference. Like he just snaps at me all the time. And I don't really blame him for snapping at me because I'm kind of crazy. (Laughs) And we do spend pretty much our whole day together in the apartment because he works from home.

(Pause): [00:08:35 00:08:49]

CLIENT: You know. It hurts my feelings to say that as I say that I think, 'oh, the thing to do would be to go work from the library.' (Laughs) I'm not sure that would be the thing to do. I'm lazy and I like staying at home, but (laughs) I need to get over that. Yeah, it hurts my feelings.

(Pause): [00:09:17 00:09:45]

CLIENT: I was having a really hard time last night. For some reason just being in church was really rough which is usually not the case.

THERAPIST: Not usually, yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah, but -

(Pause): [00:09:57 00:10:12]

CLIENT: You know, thinking -

(Pause): [00:10:13 00:10:21]

CLIENT: My life has been so hard for quite a while now and there is not really anything that can be done and I don't understand why this is happening to me.

(Pause): [00:10:36 00:10:46]

CLIENT: I tried to tell James about it and it didn't go very well. You know it could have gone a lot worse but it also could have gone better.

(Pause): [00:11:01 00:11:37]

CLIENT: Yeah, the first and primary thing he said was, "well, you seeing Chad isn't helping and it shouldn't be a problem going to San Antonio." Like no. (Laughs) No. (Laughs) Not (unclear) (Laughs). Not at all thing.

(Pause): [00:11:55 00:12:12]

CLIENT: And I don't feel like it's fair to be upset with him for not knowing exactly the right thing to say in this situation.

(Pause): [00:12:27 00:12:41]

CLIENT: I wouldn't know what to say to myself.

(Pause): [00:12:41 00:12:50]

CLIENT: So it's turning into this thing where he'll snap at me in small ways and it's just building up and I, I'm usually quite good at not letting things like this build up but I'm not being very successful with that.

(Pause): [00:13:13 00:13:56]

CLIENT: And then we got home and he made dinner because I was doing really badly. He said, "You go sit down, I'll make some dinner." We made popcorn and we watched TV and I felt much better and things were great.

(Pause): [00:14:13 00:14:33]

CLIENT: I think part of why things are building up again, they don't stay bad, so it's like, 'well, I don't really need to (unclear).'

THERAPIST: Uh huh [yes].

(Pause): [00:14:46 00:15:01]

CLIENT: Unless it's just so clear to me that I'm driving him nuts and I don't know how to stop. I try. I try not to be crazy. (Laughs)

(Pause): [00:15:15 00:15:26]

THERAPIST: What are you doing that's crazy?

(Pause): [00:15:25 00:15:35]

CLIENT: Now I can't think of anything. But, okay, so I talk to him all the time when he's trying to work. It's just you know, I'm sitting down, he's there. I have a question. I do that.

(Pause): [00:15:51 00:15:59]

CLIENT: I fret constantly.

(Pause): [00:16:01 00:16:08]

CLIENT: And I'm in kind of a bind because do I talk to him about the fact that I'm fretting? Or do I not talk to him about it? And I feel like neither one is really a good solution.

(Pause): [00:16:21 00:16:36]

CLIENT: I forget things. And I have to ask him things like, 'where do I catch the bus stop to go here?' to this place, that place that I'm going to before the entire time I've lived here.

(Pause): [00:16:56 00:16:56]

CLIENT: I mean, ECT is not helping. (Laughs)

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: Or has not helped. I avoid things. I really don't like dealing with paperwork. Like, it terrifies me. So I just avoid it. I know I'm not supposed to but I do.

(Pause): [00:17:29 00:18:01]

CLIENT: That's a [good one] (ph) now.

THERAPIST: Um hmm [yes].

(Pause): [00:18:03 00:18:56]

CLIENT: I'm worried that I'm not treating him well. But I asked him and he says things are fine. I sort of know things aren't fine (shaky). But I don't know whether that's actually true or whether that's just me making something up because I'm (unclear). You know, it could be (laughs) I feel like I'm pretty sensitive to what's going on in our relationship. I feel like I'm pretty good at navigating that. But I also know for a fact that I make things up to worry about. (Laughs)

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: So, I don't know.

THERAPIST: Okay.

(Pause): [00:19:48 00:20:30]

CLIENT: He spends so much time taking care of me.

(Pause): [00:20:32 00:20:43]

CLIENT: I cannot be easy to be married to right now. I mean, I'm not sure that it's ever easy to be married to me. (Laughs)

THERAPIST: Chuckles.

CLIENT: Let's be clear. (Laughs) But especially now [00:21:09].

(Pause): [00:21:0100:21:09]

CLIENT: I hate that.

THERAPIST: Um hmm [yes].

(Pause): [00:21:10 00:21:17]

THERAPIST: I know you do.

CLIENT: (Laughs) Okay.

(Pause): [00:21:22 00:21:55]

CLIENT: He is usually so easy to be with. So I feel a little bit selfish for, you know. I'm upset because he's snapping at me a lot. I kind of think I should just get over it of -

(Pause): [00:22:18 00:22:26]

CLIENT: So James is not perfect all the time. I should just deal with that. Which I do, mostly. But -

(Pause): [00:22:41 00:22:47]

CLIENT: You know, it bothers me.

(Pause): [00:22:47 00:23:10]

CLIENT: A lot of what he's said to me recently has been in instances where I've been particularly hard on myself or particularly impatient with myself or taking things too hard and it's like that's not helpful. (Laughs)

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: Because I'm just, I'm anxious about it just makes me more anxious.

THERAPIST: Yes. I imagine it makes you feel even more so like you're doing things wrong.

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah.

(Pause): [00:23:51 00:24:34]

THERAPIST: You're talking about of lot of this at sort of a bit of a remove from it, or not so much in terms of a (unclear) so that the nitty-gritty of what's happening? And I'm not sure what to make of that whether you're kind of wanting to mange it more on your own and sort of let it all out there -

CLIENT: I don't know.

(Pause): [00:25:10 00:25:16]

CLIENT: I think part of it is I don't really remember it that well, like I don't hold onto specific instances so it takes me a long time to find a pattern at all to say, 'oh wow, James has been really snapping at me a lot, hasn't he?' I've it' not until I'm going like it's hard for me to pick up a pattern. I think also I'm a little bit protective of him in a way.

(Pause): [00:25:55 00:26:05]

CLIENT: And I'm talking with you about something I'm upset with him about, but I sort of don't like telling you anything that might make you think less of him. So (laughs) yeah.

(Pause): [00:26:17 00:26:35]

CLIENT: It's not a rational desire, at all but there it is.

(Pause): [00:26:39 00:26:50]

THERAPIST: Sometimes (inaudible).

CLIENT: (Laughs) Yeah.

(Pause): [00:26:55 00:27:11]

CLIENT: Also, how much of it is just tone of voice? You know (unclear) it's hard for me to even like, how could I even bring it up with him when the problem isn't really at all what he's saying so much as the way that he's saying it?

(Pause): [00:27:31 00:28:29]

CLIENT: It's sort of what he's saying, but I can't even think of anything.

THERAPIST: I wonder if how do you feel both so guilty and so inadequate because of how much he's taking care of you that to speak up about being angry with him about his being so critical would both sort of add to the guilt and would make you feel even more inadequate because then you would feel, I think, as though and you're still having trouble handling some things about how's being, he's doing all this and you can't even [suck it up] (ph) [talk it out] (ph).

CLIENT: Yeah, that's a (inaudible).

(Pause): [00:29:30 00:29:36]

CLIENT: Yeah, and all the things that he snaps at me for, or 90% of the things that he snaps at me for, I would snap at me for. Like, I think it's in some ways he's a very reasonable man to be criticizing me for these things. It doesn't, it just I just can't handle it.

(Pause): [00:29:57 00:30:30]

CLIENT: Yeah, most of the time he's so much more patient with me than I feel like is reasonable of anybody. So that's what I've been (unclear) to do in the situation. It's like maybe he's just being normal. (Laughs)

(Pause): [00:30:57 [00:32:20]

CLIENT: And I do just feel just guilty all the time and then you say, inadequate.

(Pause): [00:32:31 [00:33:12]

THERAPIST: Yeah, I think to an extent that probably makes him feel very nervous.

CLIENT: How so?

(Pause): [00:33:16 00:33:20]

THERAPIST: Like -

(Pause): [00:33:20 00:33:31]

THERAPIST: (inaudible) like the things you feel guilty and inadequate about like is really not okay.

CLIENT: Yeah.

(Pause): [00:33:37 [00:33:44]

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: I (unclear) you have.

CLIENT: I think something's going to explode in my face at some point in some way.

THERAPIST: Um hmm [yes].

CLIENT: (Sigh)

(Pause): [00:33:57 00:34:29]

THERAPIST: Yeah, I imagine that's the only way you can tolerate it is to kind of feel like something catastrophic at any moment in other words, if you settled into this then you'd really feel bad like -

(Pause): [00:34:51 00:35:10]

CLIENT: That makes sense.

(Pause): [00:35:10 00:36:38]

THERAPIST: Yeah, I think in the beginning it sounds like he was criticizing you which makes you feel worse and you feel like by the fact that you were kind of indulging and saying it was okay to be feeling hurt by what he was saying, or like that was something you had a right to ask for help with, or understanding of, and I imagine (unclear) kind of make you feel worse. [00:37:22]

CLIENT: Yeah.

(Pause): [00:37:24 00:37:36]

THERAPIST: (Unclear) understanding or you can say like, 'well of course he's after you about that." And it is crazy.

CLIENT: (Laughs)

THERAPIST: (Laughs)

CLIENT: I mean, that would make sense.

(Both laugh)

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah, on some level that's what I expect, certainly.

THERAPIST: Um hmm [yes].

(Pause): [00:38:00 00:38:18]

CLIENT: I think he's really scared.

(Pause): [00:38:20 00:38:30]

CLIENT: In some ways it's a lot easier for me to deal with when I hurt myself or my wanting to kill myself than it is for James, I think.

(Pause): [00:38:37 00:38:46]

CLIENT: I don't feel like I'd be giving up anything of value.

(Pause): [00:38:56 00:39:10]

CLIENT: So you know, that I just feel worse about getting upset with him for snapping at me (laughs) because -

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: it's pretty clear to me where that's coming from.

(Pause): [00:39:21 00:40:45]

CLIENT: Then again I agree with him and can see if he weren't there I'd just kill myself.

(Pause): [00:40:53 00:41:03]

CLIENT: [Now I'm] (ph) very angry.

(Pause): [00:41:03 00:41:09]

CLIENT: Or I don't spend much time with it anyway.

(Pause): [00:41:10 00:41:52]

THERAPIST: Like, I think, it was a couple of days ago now, this (unclear) comes up when we're talking about your feeling guilty for (unclear) taking care of you; you're being angry at him sometimes (inaudible).

CLIENT: Yeah.

(Pause): [00:42:39 00:42:44]

THERAPIST: You're feeling that that happens is all acceptable.

(Pause): [00:42:47 00:42:52]

CLIENT: Yeah.

(Pause): [00:42:52 00:43:01]

CLIENT: Yeah, like it just doesn't have anywhere to go.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

(Pause): [00:43:03 00:43:57]

CLIENT: And then I feel guilty for feeling suicidal and so that just goes around.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: That's real fun. (Laughs)

(Pause): [00:44:05 00:44:34]

THERAPIST: Yeah, you are in this trap I think where some of your reactions and things that you feel, you also feel are completely unacceptable.

CLIENT: Yeah. Some.

THERAPIST: And intolerable, really. Yeah.

CLIENT: Yes.

(Pause): [00:45:16 00:45:23]

THERAPIST: I guess what would be more accurate to say is usually because in some way I think it feels sort of like (unclear) about maybe James (inaudible).

CLIENT: Um hmm [yes].

(Pause): [00:45:40 [00:45:47]

CLIENT: Yeah, but I mean the only reason it doesn't feel unfair to, or feeling the ways that I'm acting and feeling don't feel unfair to other people that I don't really have anybody else in my life right now. Like, I'm just not spending time with people.

THERAPIST: So (unclear) the only way it doesn't -

CLIENT: Well I mean it doesn't I don't feel like I'm treating other people unfairly because I'm not treating other people any way at all. I'm just not around other people much recently.

(Pause): [00:46:34 00:46:41]

THERAPIST: Do you mean, and if you were you would also feel like you're treating people like that or that -

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: I see.

(Pause): [00:46:43 00:46:53]

THERAPIST: I'm going to stop. I wonder and this is not a big deal could you possibly come in at 9:15 tomorrow instead of 7:45?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: You're sure?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: If you realize otherwise, let me know, like (inaudible).

END TRANSCRIPT