TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:
THERAPIST: Good morning.
CLIENT: Good morning.
THERAPIST: (Unclear) at the time.
CLIENT: Yeah, of course. (Unclear) it's okay. James and I'd been watching Friday Night Lights, (unclear). [00:00:27]
THERAPIST: I saw that high school football (unclear)?
CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. It's a pretty good show actually. You know, both of us kind of hate football, but it's really just about like small town in the south and, you know, (unclear) but they're a little bit homesick for Texas so we ended up staying up too late last night and watching too much TV, so it goes.
(Pause): [00:01:05 00:01:13]
CLIENT: All, of course, is like -
(Pause): [00:01:16 00:01:20]
CLIENT: I can't tell whether it's just on TV shows that nobody can make good decisions or whether that's just the way things are.
THERAPIST: (Laughs)
CLIENT: (Laughs) I suspect it's just the way things are, but that's really depressing. (Laughs) (Unclear) to talk about.
(Pause): [00:02:07 [00:02:29]
CLIENT: How do you get over anxiety? Like, how do people deal with it?
(Pause): [00:02:36 00:02:46]
CLIENT: (Unintelligible) I forgot my dad's birthday.
(Pause): [00:03:02 [00:03:06]
CLIENT: (Laughs)
(Pause): [00:03:06 00:03:12]
CLIENT: So, there's something else to fret about.
(Pause): [00:03:19 00:03:54]
CLIENT: The last time I talked it went better than it has in a while, actually. You know, it's more of an actual conversation instead of him just talking. (Unclear).
THERAPIST: Sure.
CLIENT: Do you think a visit I would actually like him to he does much better in person. He's it gets frustrating because he's a really, really good priest, like he's very good at being with people in trouble. Just not always good at being with his family. But I feel like, one, I want to do this. He sort of falls into the priest role a little more, and so I don't know, it's like he makes the time, or has the time to listen and have a real conversation. That's good.
(Pause): [00:05:31 00:06:07]
CLIENT: I said, 'you know I'm not really doing very well.' And he said, 'okay. I think you'll feel much better when spring comes.' I said, 'no, I really don't think that's going to happen.' (Laughs)
THERAPIST: (Chuckle)
CLIENT: And then he kind of sat up. (Laughs)
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: So.
(Pause): [00:06:26 00:06:39]
CLIENT: He's my dad.
(Pause): [00:06:38 00:07:33]
THERAPIST: (Unclear) that I think you do that to yourself, or at least you do that in here a lot. Sort of something, somewhat analogous to his comment about the spring. I think like sort of because of the last conversation went better or how he's usually better in person or one on one visit, or, well, but he's my dad. All, I think sort of heading off -
CLIENT: Disappointment?
THERAPIST: Sure. (Unclear). But we can go with it.
CLIENT: (Laughs) Yeah, but you know. It's okay for me to do that to myself. (Laughs)
THERAPIST: Okay.
CLIENT: (Laughs) Just don't let anybody else do that to me. No. Well, yeah. It's got to come from somewhere.
THERAPIST: That's where you got it, yeah.
(Pause): [00:08:56 00:09:21]
CLIENT: No, I mean, I think you're right. I do do that.
(Pause): [00:09:23 00:09:55]
CLIENT: Oh yeah, we won't be like them. That quality is negative.
(Pause): [00:09:57 00:10:08]
THERAPIST: Apparently not even her therapist.
CLIENT: (Laughs)
THERAPIST: (Laughs)
CLIENT: (inaudible)
(Pause): [00:10:14 00:10:31]
CLIENT: A lot of the time I feel like if I let myself not kind of turn that negative emotion aside, it'll just swallow me up. But also now I just like that's the thing you do, like that's what you do when you're unhappy.
THERAPIST: (Unclear).
CLIENT: Yeah.
(Pause): [00:11:16 00:11:30]
THERAPIST: Although I'm being (unclear) about him. (Unclear) it's not what he does to himself, the "chin up" thing. My impression is that like, at least I think what you talk about most is his using that kind of scattered or disorganization where a lack of mindfulness as a kind of protection against having to take responsibility for things, or maybe this is me wondering if as protection it's a way of sort of protecting himself against getting angry.
CLIENT: That's probably right because he's worked really, really hard (unclear) anger since I was a kid.
THERAPIST: So if you don't look at it any more then it's uncharitable to say that about him, but like (unclear).
CLIENT: Yeah. I think he's really scared of his own anger.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: I don't know. I've seen him do that to himself. Mostly about stuff that he is just really, like people, disappointed in and doesn't want to be disappointed. You know, so like with things in his marriage going the way he wants them to, he will kind of check up -
(Pause): [00:13:29 00:13:43]
CLIENT: You know, again I'm just so much happier to be doing that to myself than to have anybody else say things like that to me. No. No. Absolutely not. I'm not (laughs) this is not a seasonal thing.
THERAPIST: Right. Right. There's an edge there.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: For you. I mean.
CLIENT: Yeah, I feel (unclear). I'm like, no. I've been in the hospital like three times in the last year. This is not a seasonal thing.
THERAPIST: A little bit of sunshine is (client laughing so inaudible), yeah.
(Pause): [00:14:30 00:14:40]
CLIENT: You know, and then I feel bad about that. Wow. He's so scared for me. You know. His first wife was in and out of hospitals. Yeah, most of their marriage for most of her life.
THERAPIST: She was in and out of hospitals a lot, too?
CLIENT: I think less now. I think the last five or ten years she's gotten a lot more stable. She goes to a therapist who works really well with her. And I have the impression that she finally got medication sorted out in a way that works for her. But yeah, there still is like a -
(Pause): [00:15:42 [00:15:49]
CLIENT: 20 year period.
(Pause): [00:15:53 00:15:59]
THERAPIST: She's in and out of the hospital like a few times a year for 20 years?
CLIENT: I don't know if it was a few times a year. But I have the impression that it was at least once a year.
THERAPIST: Uh huh [yes].
(Pause): [00:16:14 00:16:19]
CLIENT: And for (inaudible)?
THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah, she's tried to kill herself several times.
(Pause): [00:16:22 00:16:28]
THERAPIST: Seriously.
CLIENT: I don't know. She's never really told me about [suicidality] (ph). I think that's not something she really wants to talk with me about.
THERAPIST: I mean, I'm not asking because I know she tried to kill herself, but like, where did you hear it?
CLIENT: Honestly, I know about mom's tried to kill herself because she told James and James told me. (Laughs) What? (Laughs)
THERAPIST: Crazy. Like -
CLIENT: (Laughs)
THERAPIST: I didn't tell my daughter because I didn't want to burden her with this but I tell her husband -
CLIENT: (Laughs)
THERAPIST: because totally, that's the person to tell. I mean, well -
CLIENT: James has a really trustworthy face. (Laughs)
THERAPIST: James, I have no doubt is incredibly trustworthy. This has nothing to do with James.
CLIENT: (Laughs)
THERAPIST: I mean, I'm not saying anything about James, but obviously she's going to tell you. And -
CLIENT: (Laughs) Well, I'm sure she knew that he was going to tell me (unclear). That's why she told James because she couldn't tell me but you know, she wanted me to know about it. (Laughs)
THERAPIST: I'm just saying that (unclear).
CLIENT: (Laughing) Oh, yeah. (Laughing) (Unclear laughing). That's my mom. (Laughs)
THERAPIST: I mean there's wanting to tell you and wanting to keep it from you. And then there's -
(Pause): [00:17:49 00:17:54]
THERAPIST: whatever she's doing in telling James.
CLIENT: Yeah. And to be honest, it's a little bit unclear to me what's she's doing there. Like, why she tells me what she tells me and doesn't tell me. Like I never know when she's in the hospital. I only know about it in retrospect because and sometimes not even then because she won't you know, if she can avoid telling us, she will. So she just, you know, my whole life, she just would disappear for months at a time.
THERAPIST: Months.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Wow.
CLIENT: I don't know that she's in the hospital that entire time, but you know, recovery period.
THERAPIST: Sure.
CLIENT: And then she comes back and doesn't even acknowledge that she's been gone. So yeah.
(Pause): [00:18:54 00:18:59]
CLIENT: So I think my dad's really scared of it all that I've turned into her.
THERAPIST: Yeah. Like clearly there's a lot going on but I wonder if one aspect of what's going on with you is like you're trying to see where the hell she's been.
(Pause): [00:19:17 00:19:25]
CLIENT: I've not really thought about it in that way.
(Pause): [00:19:33 00:19:36]
THERAPIST: Again, (unclear) I'm not saying that's the main thing that's going on.
CLIENT: Yeah. I don't know.
THERAPIST: But if I think about (inaudible).
CLIENT: No, no.
(Pause): [00:19:52 00:20:02]
THERAPIST: What are actions to your mom, I know we don't talk about her that often, but one of those is sort of really longing for her, I think, and missing her and wondering where the hell she is.
CLIENT: Hmm hmm [yes].
THERAPIST: I guess part of a (unclear) thing for you, you know, where you have been in and out of the hospital might feel like one of the only ways you possibly could know or could be trying to figure out where's she's been.
(Pause): [00:20:47 00:21:03]
CLIENT: That's hard for me to tell.
THERAPIST: Sure.
CLIENT: Yeah, I am so angry with her. It's hard for me to see anything other than anger, you know?
THERAPIST: Um hmm [yes]. What did she tell James about her suicide attempts?
CLIENT: I don't know. I just James told me she had tried to kill herself multiple times. That was all.
THERAPIST: That was the first you heard of it?
CLIENT: That was the first I heard it directly acknowledged. It was pretty clear like, you know, like I I mean she's got scars.
THERAPIST: Where?
CLIENT: On her wrists. Yeah.
(Pause): [00:22:16 00:22:25]
CLIENT: (Unclear) now, I had kind of thought that she had probably tried to kill herself, but that was the first I had heard yes, this is why she'd been in the hospital.
THERAPIST: And you would ask?
CLIENT: No.
THERAPIST: I'm not saying you should have or like (unclear). [00:22:48]
CLIENT: That wasn't going to happen. (Laughs) No it never did.
(Pause): [00:22:53 00:22:59]
THERAPIST: When did she tell James about this?
CLIENT: Pretty recently. Maybe a year or two ago.
THERAPIST: Since you've been more depressed? Or since she found that you were in the hospital.
CLIENT: I don't I think it might have been before I was hospitalized, but I don't know. I don't really remember.
(Pause): [00:23:21 00:23:26]
CLIENT: Like I don't remember the context of that conversation, either. And I don't remember why they were talking about it anymore.
(Pause): [00:23:27 00:23:45]
CLIENT: This just struck you as a lot crazier than it struck me, like, I just never really thought about that. Of all the things my mom does, (laughs) she won't acknowledge (laughing).
THERAPIST: (Unintelligible) her.
CLIENT: Yeah. Basically.
THERAPIST: I don't know how she's doing. I haven't talked to her in, at least since Christmas.
(Pause): [00:24:13 00:25:30]
CLIENT: And (unclear) also another reason, to (unclear) things. I just really don't want to be like her. I really, really, really, really don't. (Sigh)
(Pause): [00:25:51 00:26:04]
CLIENT: And I don't want to go back to the hospital.
(Pause): [00:26:04 00:26:38]
CLIENT: I know I'm not I know that in some ways I'm just not going to be like her, you know. I'm better. I really should (unclear) I just am.
THERAPIST: Um hmm [yes].
CLIENT: That makes a big difference.
THERAPIST: Um hmm [yes].
(Pause): [00:27:02 00:27:43]
CLIENT: The last time I saw her it actually went really well. We went to oh, what's the place? Where [inaudible] lived.
THERAPIST: Oh -
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Yes.
CLIENT: Yeah, we went with her and, yeah, it went really well. We had good conversation. She wasn't crazy and that was fine. And she just hasn't contacted me since then. (Laughs) That was over Christmas break.
(Pause): [00:28:48 00:28:55]
CLIENT: (Unintelligible)
(Pause): [00:28:54 00:30:20]
CLIENT: (Unintelligible)
THERAPIST: (inaudible)
CLIENT: (Laughs)
THERAPIST: (Laughs) Un huh [yes].
(Pause): [00:30:28 00:30:37]
CLIENT: (Laughs)
THERAPIST: (Unintelligible)
CLIENT: Yeah.
(Pause): [00:30:41 00:30:54]
CLIENT: Just there are many things I feel vaguely incompetent about, and that's high on the list. I just -
(Pause): [00:31:02 00:31:08]
CLIENT: I don't know what normal parenting is like.
THERAPIST: Yeah (inaudible).
CLIENT: (Laughs) Yeah. I mean I've hung out with James's parents some. They're pretty normal I think.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: But it only goes so far.
THERAPIST: Sure. Sure and after their kids are grown up -
CLIENT: Yeah. Well, James's father was 80 when we started dating.
THERAPIST: (Unintelligible)
CLIENT: They have a lot of kids.
THERAPIST: (Unclear)
CLIENT: Yeah. They've got five. We're not going to have five kids. (Laughs) No.
THERAPIST: All right (unclear). Is James the oldest?
CLIENT: He's the oldest boy. He's got one older sister.
THERAPIST: Who's the one who's the typical husband?
CLIENT: Which one?
THERAPIST: Okay.
CLIENT: Oh no, actually, I guess Jessica's husband is not too bad. So yes, this is the one with the typical husband.
THERAPIST: Okay.
CLIENT: Yeah.
(Pause): [00:32:25 00:32:30]
CLIENT: She's a piece of work. (Laughs)
THERAPIST: (Unclear). What's her name?
CLIENT: Vivienne.
THERAPIST: That's right.
CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah.
(Pause): [00:32:42 00:32:47]
CLIENT: So essentially, he's the oldest child. Vivienne's a couple of year's older but -
(Pause): [00:32:54 00:33:02]
CLIENT: just their personalities are such that James just kind of took the lead.
THERAPIST: Um hmm [yes].
(Pause): [00:33:13 00:33:27]
CLIENT: What scares me (unclear) his parents -
(Pause): [00:33:30 00:33:35]
CLIENT: They take such good care of me. It's terrifying.
THERAPIST: You think it's terrifying.
(Pause): [00:33:45 00:33:59]
CLIENT: Yeah, it's like I just I mean, pretty early on in the time we were dating, it's like they just decided that they wanted me.
(Pause): [00:34:10 00:34:24]
CLIENT: It's really nice.
THERAPIST: Um hmm [yes].
CLIENT: But a little scary.
(Pause): [00:34:27 00:34:41]
CLIENT: Now they don't do that with all of their kids.
THERAPIST: Significant others?
(Pause): [00:34:50 00:34:53]
CLIENT: So you know they're really welcoming to like Cory's girlfriend. But, and very kind to her, but it's not quite the same thing. Yeah.
(Pause): [00:35:06 00:35:11]
CLIENT: They haven't just adopted her.
(Pause): [00:35:15 00:36:08]
THERAPIST: I don't know what to do.
CLIENT: Okay.
(Pause): [00:36:11 00:37:04]
THERAPIST: Well, I imagine that they, in some ways this is good, but in some ways it's like the way being here can be scary in that it's clear in a way that the other person, like me or them, pays attention to you, to think that what you feel or think actually really matters, and that gives a kind of that really makes it easier to feel and think things that are very dangerous in other ways, in other words, keep very much locked away.
CLIENT: I hadn't thought about that. I think you're right.
(Pause): [00:38:07 00:38:20]
CLIENT: Yeah. But it is scary in exactly the same way.
(Pause): [00:38:27 00:38:43]
CLIENT: It feels like it's harder to stay in control of myself. Yeah. All of these things that I don't usually have to feel or think they just come out. Anything could happen. (Laughs)
THERAPIST: Yeah. That's is scary.
(Pause): [00:39:17 00:39:31]
THERAPIST: It's just occurred to me now that maybe that's why you're so vigilant about not telling me (unintelligible). I mean it's terrifying now, when you don't live with your parents, or live at home, and you know, have a grownup mind to think with. And that's sort of like Pandora's box that comes along with being paid attention to that way and I guess I don't know, but I'm sort of guessing that would be in a way scarier.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: And maybe a person could reason away as a kid.
CLIENT: Yeah. I don't know. I don't remember as a child, I don't remember feeling taken care of in this way by my therapist for whatever that's worth. So -
(Pause): [00:40:41 00:40:52]
CLIENT: Yeah, I think I thought that if she found out about what is going on there would be repercussions against me. I think I thought I would get in trouble.
THERAPIST: If she thought that you were depressed.
(Pause): [00:41:06 00:41:24]
CLIENT: I'm sure she actually, now, I'm not sure. You know, you can't hide that as well as you think you can. I imagine particularly not as a child. But I tried. (Laughs)
THERAPIST: Yeah. And was really scared, I think.
CLIENT: Yeah.
(Pause): [00:41:47 00:43:02]
CLIENT: Yeah, I still worry about that, you know.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
(Pause): [00:43:06 00:43:11]
CLIENT: I worry about repercussions.
(Pause): [00:43:11 00:43:25]
THERAPIST: Getting in trouble for feeling bad.
CLIENT: Um hmm [yes].
THERAPIST: And for people finding out about it.
CLIENT: Um hmm [yes]. Yeah, particularly feeling suicidal.
THERAPIST: Recently.
CLIENT: Recently. I have to kind of sit myself down. [Cell phone vibrate noise]. I'm so sorry, I don't know who (unclear). I sit myself down and say, 'no, you really have to tell somebody about that.' (Laughs)
THERAPIST: I see. And (unclear) and almost reflexive (unclear) yourself. [00:44:05]
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: Because people, you know, people react strongly when I tell them that I'm suicidal. They don't take it in stride.
THERAPIST: Sure.
(Pause): [00:44:23 00:44:29]
CLIENT: Well. We now they I worry that [cell phone vibration noise] (unclear) back to the hospital.
(Pause): [00:44:37 00:44:43]
THERAPIST: We should stop.
CLIENT: Great.
THERAPIST: Yeah. (inaudible)
END TRANSCRIPT
