Transcript of Audio File:
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:
CLIENT: I have not been doing so well the last couple of days and it's kind of like, "Well, I'll take it easy last night and I'll feel better in the morning," and I really didn't feel better in the morning. I keep kind of hoping it will subside and it doesn't really seem to be. You know [two day stuff] (ph?) Basically just job stuff. I just (pause) can't stop being anxious and "catastrophizing" and (pause) . . . yeah, I'm sure there is a third thing there, but (laughs) that's basically what it's about. Yeah, just not feeling good about my prospects. I'm not really sure what the next thing to do is. Things just seem kind of bleak. [00:01:33] (pause) I don't know. (pause) Crying when I don't expect to and things like that. (pause) It feels sort of like I'm just on the edge of panicking all the time. I'm pretty good at not panicking, but I can't quite (sighs) not be about to panic, if that makes sense. [00:02:25]
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: I'm tutoring real well.
THERAPIST: That's good.
CLIENT: They like me. I'm a little bit surprised but I guess I really shouldn't be.
THERAPIST: Are you [ ] (inaudible at 00:02:51)
CLIENT: It's not bad if it has been, or no worse than it has other times. (pause) You know, it feels pretty under control but it doesn't want to go away. (pause) [00:03:38] I just don't know what to do next. I sort of don't like any of the other things I could be doing or I could do next term. I don't feel like I could do them. (pause) [00:04:23]
THERAPIST: What are you referring to?
CLIENT: It just seems increasingly less likely that I'm going to find a job from any of the schools I've been talking to, so I can keep on kind of sending applications out to the wind or I can . . . You know I could look at matches in teacher and matches in education programs which I'd like to do, but I can't really afford it. Really I don't want to take out more loans and it's not exactly like the application period right now anyway. (pause) I can keep going with the tutoring, which I am doing, but I feel so unprepared for that. I was talking with a woman about tutoring her daughter, mostly reading and writing. She's 12. But she's looking for somebody to be like five hours a day, three or four days a week. [00:06:04]
THERAPIST: Where is it at?
CLIENT: Her daughter is not in school right now. (sighs) she's an ESL student and she has a couple of learning disabilities from brain injuries when she was younger and that just terrifies me. I feel like maybe I'm not the right person for that job. (chuckles) (sighs) (pause) [00:06:49]
THERAPIST: One thing you could do would be . . . I think you're right you probably don't know enough to work with somebody that has those sorts of problems. But if you wanted to, you could hire a neuropsychologist or somebody like that to meet with you once a week as sort of a supervision. Maybe start out once a week and then once you learned a little more it could be less and build the cost of that into what you charge them. And with that kind of assistance I think you might want to meet with the neuropsychologist first and find out whether that would work. It might. [ ] (inaudible at 00:08:05) However I also know the work thing is actually important in real life in addition to being less important.
CLIENT: (laughs) Yeah. Thanks.
THERAPIST: Sure. (pause) [00:08:55]
CLIENT: It sort of becomes a moot point because my schedule is more split up than she's really looking for anyway. I'm like, "Well, that convenient" (laughs) (pause)
THERAPIST: You don't really want to do it.
CLIENT: I sort of don't.
THERAPIST: Then don't do it. (pause)
CLIENT: I guess I sort of feel like it wasn't my intention to have a job where I go in every day scared. (pause) Maybe that's it [on the long view] (ph?). (crying softly) I was pretty scared at first teaching, but (pause) one of the reasons that I want to be teaching is that it's something that I have confidence in myself about. (crying) [00:10:21]
THERAPIST: I'm really sorry that I ran out of tissue.
CLIENT: Oh, that's okay. I didn't even look for them so . . . (laughs) (sniffling) (pause) I was anxious all day about tutoring this girl yesterday. I think that will settle down eventually if I can get a sense that I feel like I know what I'm doing more and feel like I know what we're going to do more and have more of a relationship with them and so forth. (sighs) (pause) [00:11:44] Yeah, of course [ ] (inaudible at 00:11:46) (laughs) Sorry. (chuckles) (pause) I sort of don't know what to catch on to other than [ ] (inaudible at 00:12:23) (pause) Maybe it can be well. I mean, it's not right for me to be confident in my ability to teach this, you know? Maybe I can't do this. I have a lot riding on this. (pause) [00:14:17]
I'm trying to deal with it by doing other useful things other than finding a job. I taught them how to bake bread yesterday. (sniffling) They didn't really need me to teach them how to bake bread, but I'm pretty good I think. Of course, I forgot to put the salt in until the very end, which I do a lot. (laughs) (sniffles) (pause) [00:15:08]
Yeah, so basically this is the usual [ ] (inaudible at 00:15:12). I feel like I've been here a lot. [ ] (inaudible at 00:15:18). Just feeling discouraged, hating myself, just feeling trapped all of the time. (long pause) [00:18:15]
Times like this it's sort of aggravating to have stopped hurting myself and I don't know how to deal with it. (chuckles) I'm not sure how good it is for me the "well, just don't think about it right now" approach is, but I kind of pull up a little bit and say, "Okay, I can't really deal with this right now." (chuckles) Then I read a book. [00:19:24]
THERAPIST: I guess I'm thinking about tutoring and it's sort of like . . . I mean it didn't, but it could have unfolded with me [ ] (inaudible at 00:20:13) encouraging about your being able to do that and work with that kid and you collapsing, feeling in some sense like you should be able to, that you couldn't handle not feeling up to it. [00:20:45]
CLIENT: Yeah, that's the scenario I have to realize you have to do . . .
THERAPIST: Angry at yourself or falling apart, and I think that would be horrible, but I think you might also like there would be a sense of familiarity or even like it would probably reduce the anxiety some because then it would be so clear what you couldn't handle.
CLIENT: That makes sense. [00:21:42] (pause)
THERAPIST: And I'm not sure of this, but I could imagine you putting in a little bit that I would have imagined I would have thought you could do it. In a sort of positive; not because you're feeling great, but because you're good with kids and stuff like that. It would be encouraging sort of.
CLIENT: I don't know. Against that, I already sort of talked with James about this kid and already basically decided I'm not going to do it. I feel guilty about that decision.
THERAPIST: I see. [00:22:55]
CLIENT: So I think that's kind of what I'm trying to put forward.
THERAPIST: I see. Yeah, I understood it differently.
CLIENT: I also am anxious about talking to you about tutoring because I'm afraid you will think I can't do it so . . .
THERAPIST: Is that because it has something to do with me saying it's something I've done?
CLIENT: Yeah, I think so. I'm sorry, that sucks. I feel like it sucks. But, yeah, I think that . . .
THERAPIST: And is it like do you know more how that works? Is it because I know something about it and believe you're competent at it or I think you're emotionally having too much trouble to do it? [00:24:25]
CLIENT: I think it's because you know something about this and I don't know anything about this. (chuckles) Like I'm really making it up as I go along every single time. (pause) (sniffles) [00:25:31] I hate that. I hate feeling that way.
THERAPIST: Which way? I mean, [ ] (inaudible at 00:25:38)
CLIENT: (laughs) I was talking about not wanting to talk to you about tutoring.
THERAPIST: I think maybe it is a little like I said before, not with you pulling me into that, but the other part about I mentioned I was sort of being encouraging that you could do that other job that you don't want to do and that [ ] (inaudible at 00:26:12). In this case, I didn't even encourage you to do anything and I'm already making you feel lousy [ ] (inaudible at 00:26:23) especially evident to me because I know something about it.
CLIENT: (laughs) Yeah. (pause) [00:26:44]
THERAPIST: I have the impression it feels like I can sort of see right through you and what feels to you like a very flimsy pretense that you could work on these cases.
CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah. (pause)
THERAPIST: Does it occur to you that I think this is something you may be able to do? You might just be good at it. You might not need a lot of training for you to be able to do well. [00:27:43]
CLIENT: Not really. I mean . . . (pause) I started doing this because I thought this was something I could be good at. I don't know. I'm just in a spot right now where I don't think I could possibly be good at anything. I don't know if something is happening. I don't know. I guess I do sort of feel like you're seeing right through me and I feel like well, if that's the case, then there's no way I'm going to be good at this. (laughs) [00:28:51]
THERAPIST: How do you mean? Because everybody else would, too?
CLIENT: No, it's more like if you're seeing through me you're not going to be seeing anything good.
THERAPIST: I see. (pause) [00:29:48]
CLIENT: It's one of the top things about applying for jobs. I think I said this before. I spend so much of my day coming up with idealized not quite false picture of myself as perfectly competent and it feels much more false than I think it actually is but it feels pretty false. So it's like the more I feel like . . . I just more and more feel like I'm lying to people all day and have a harder and harder time seeing that actually no, there are things. It's not like I'm telling people I've done things that I haven't done. [00:30:40]
THERAPIST: I've not forgotten you said it actually did go pretty well yesterday.
CLIENT: Yes. (laughs) Yes. It really did.
THERAPIST: I understand that that can coexist with the feeling of being a total failure in tutoring, clearly being unable to do it any reasonable way.
CLIENT: Yes.
THERAPIST: And being sort of false in putting yourself forward.
CLIENT: Yes. I'm not sure I have, but it definitely . . . (pause) [00:31:45] Yeah. It's pretty horrible. (pause) My friend is coming to town for Easter. We're going to get duck. She likes to cook a lot, lot. Even more than I do. Yeah. I think our kitchen will be a little disappointing because we don't have any we have counter space, but it's not really usable counter space. It's like this big. People come into town and I want to kind of have it together. I don't know. (laughs) (sniffles) (pause) Yeah. [00:33:06]
THERAPIST: I know I've mentioned before that I think you have some times like a wish to fall apart, be taken care of. I think it's always sounded a little fishy to you.
CLIENT: It's more like I know it's true and I'm really uncomfortable with it. (laughs)
THERAPIST: Really? You think it's true?
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Okay. Because I think the way it's working in here is you fall apart and then maybe you'll, at least temporarily, feel like you're sitting with somebody who is nice and fair and caring and being supportive. Whereas if you're talking about getting a tutoring or teaching job you're sitting with somebody who really sees that you can't do it. In a way that makes you feel like such a failure and so anxious. [00:34:20]
CLIENT: That makes sense.
THERAPIST: If we're talking about you having fallen apart and being a wreck and at loose ends, that's a different ballgame. In one way it's really a sad, difficult, upsetting one, but it's not so scary. It's not scary in the same . . . you're only scaring me.
CLIENT: Yes, that. (laughs) Yeah. I'm sorry; I got distracted by thinking about it. I think the kind of wanting to fall apart is something that I know is going on, but I don't think it's happened all of the times that you've suggested that it was happening. I think that's where it is (both laugh) because sometimes I don't think it's happening and sometimes I just really don't want to talk about it or I'm really uncomfortable with it. I think in some ways it's like I've been working very, very hard to kind of manage how very anxious I am and I don't want to be talking to you and then be more anxious and . . . (pause) So yeah, I think you're right there. [00:36:23]
THERAPIST: It also kind of sucks that I mentioned tutoring . . .
CLIENT: No, I mean, [ ] (inaudible at 00:36:30) look good. (laughs) I mean, it really helped.
THERAPIST: Then it's not so bad.
CLIENT: Yeah, it really helped. But again, that's something I'm afraid of. I guess I can see why you don't say very much about yourself. (laughs) You couldn't have predicted that. I certainly didn't predict that. Yeah, that does suck. (pause) [00:37:39] Yeah, I can't fall apart. You don't have any tissues. (sniggers) (pause) I've been trying to not bother James with this too much which is you know. That's about it. [00:38:31]
THERAPIST: You mean with the job stuff?
CLIENT: Yeah or rather how badly I'm doing with it right now. Probably because I genuinely don't want to bother him and partly because I'm not sure how he's going to react every time. (pause) I guess I do kind of want to come in here and dump it on you because I sort of know how you're going to react. (laughs) (sniffles) I know what you're going to say, but I know you're not going to get mad at me. (long pause) [00:40:33] I guess I do keep hoping that there will be a world in which I don't have to do this like this often or it doesn't have to be this hard. (pause) That doesn't seem to get me very far. (long pause) [00:42:12] Yeah, this is so familiar. I really do feel like I've had this exact thing, panic, a lot of times. It's the emotion I get very frustrated with it. I don't want to be here, you know? But I'm sure a part of me is saying, "At least it's something I know." (long pause)
THERAPIST: We should stop for now.
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