TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:
CLIENT: Hi. James was upset with me and I don't know what happened. It's one of those where every time I think "what did I do to get James upset with me?" I started being overwhelmed by all of the things I've ever done wrong ever and all of the ways that I'm a terrible person, so it's a little hard to piece together the situation. (laughs) (pause) [00:01:03] I'm thinking about looking for a job as a nanny. It just occurred to me that I actually like kids for some reason more than a lot of people and I'd much rather spend my time with children than spend my time in an office. It's kind of the point of what I'm trying to do. I think the way that I've been, I was asking for James's support. I didn't used to do that. That could be too much for him. (sighs) [00:02:02] (pause) Maybe he just doesn't want to hear again (laughs) that I am upset with where my career is right now or where it's been. I feel like the systems that I've been in have betrayed me. [...] (inaudible at 00:03:02) (pause) [00:03:32]
THERAPIST: Are you worried [...] (inaudible at 00:03:35) then I might think you're as terrible as you think you are?
CLIENT: (laughs) I hadn't thought about it. Maybe. That would be pretty hard. I think I'm pretty terrible. (pause) I don't know. I guess I must have worried that you also don't want to hear about all this again. [00:04:34]
THERAPIST: I see. (long pause) [00:05:53] You kind of ask too much of me as well and that you also care about my opinion.
CLIENT: Yeah. I feel like I ask a lot of you. I feel like the ways in which I'm upset and angry are only marginally justified at best, and even if they are it doesn't matter. It 's just the way things are. I have to figure out what to do. [00:07:02] (pause) Yeah. I feel like I needed to stop feeling sorry for myself about six months ago. (pause) [00:08:33] So I guess it's not clear to me how you said that one possibility for why things were so bad over the weekend was the stuff we talked about on Friday; and I guess I'm not clear how that works if I don't think about it at all over the weekend. (pause) [00:09:45]
THERAPIST: First I could be wrong but second...
CLIENT: [...] (inaudible at 00:09:58) I was just trying to change the subject. (pause) [00:10:37] I don't know what's going on. (crying) (long pause) [00:12:04]
THERAPIST: It occurs to me you feel like you're doing really bad and kind of irresponsible things to James and to me in ways that reflect horribly on you.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: I think that's probably what hurt about Friday. It seems to be what is hurting at this initial part of it with James. You feel like you've pushed him too far and made some really unfair demands on him in a way that I think you're feeling was sort of horrible for you to do. And then just now, I think you felt like you were changing the subject, which I think you felt was kind of a weak way out. [00:13:46]
CLIENT: Yeah, but this isn't new. I've sort of always felt like that or always for the last month or two or however long. (sniffles) (pause) [00:14:49]
THERAPIST: Also I think there's maybe another part of it, too, where you feel like you are sort of some combination of trying to kind of fight back or maybe it's just trying to get a little bit of what you need for yourself in ways that then you feel really horrible about. Again going back to Friday, you said, "Look, I've been this way with teachers and professors," or whomever because before Avi, in a way, it really worked and that was you didn't say it quite like this, but I guess I understood it like it was kind of a lot of what you got from authority figures was what you got through having those sorts of relationships with teachers and professors. [00:16:15] You were trying to get something that really matters to you; and I think with James, as well, you're trying to use him to help manage the job search with all of the stress and sort of self-punitive stuff that goes along with it. You're trying to use him as a kind of outlet or support in a process that's very difficult right now. You're trying to change the subject probably to get to something that seems remotely manageable to talk about and then I think when you sort of try to get one of these things for yourself you then I think you don't necessarily immediately realize what you're doing it or what it's for, but then you kind of feel terrible about yourself for it. You're taking the easy way out or you're being very difficult, making very unreasonable demands on people. [00:17:49]
CLIENT: Yeah. Like this morning, all this tragedy and you're comforting me and I feel really bad about it. (chuckles) Yeah. (pause) [00:18:50] It seems to be either almost more than people can take or more than they necessarily have.
THERAPIST: The reason I am not more comforting I'm worried about how many negatives I've squeezed in there is not because I've been pushed too far or I felt you shouldn't ask, it's because... How can I explain it? [00:20:07]
CLIENT: You are very comforting, but I also want to hear what you were going to say.
THERAPIST: Immediately it might be helpful if I were comforting you at any time you wanted it, but part of how this works is that it can get in the way of looking at any number of things about your wanting to be comforted. Why then? About what? From whom? [00:21:13]
CLIENT: I believe you.
THERAPIST: I guess part of the point of what you're saying is that that sucks, partly because you don't get comforted sometimes when you want to, and partly because it then makes you feel terrible for having wanted it like you did something wrong.
CLIENT: No, I would feel terrible anyway. (laughs)
THERAPIST: Okay. (pause) (crying) [00:22:59]
CLIENT: I guess a part of [...] (inaudible at 00:23:23) not feeling like I just need to stop crying already goes a long way. But also, and I think I really would feel terrible anyway all of the time. It is worse when people comfort me when I ask them to. That's harder. I think I had something else to say, but I don't know what. [00:24:15] (crying) (long pause) I'm wondering why you felt like you needed to explain that. (long pause) [00:26:21] I sort of feel like I need to stop crying a little bit. (pause) [00:27:04]
THERAPIST: I'm a little confused. First you said that not feeling like you have to stop crying goes a long way and you wondered why I explained what I just did when I did; and then you said you feel like you have to stop crying. I have the impression those things were related in your mind, but I didn't get the story.
CLIENT: I think probably that's what they sounded like, part of me is saying, "Time for me to pull it together and talk some more." Part of me doesn't want to and it's sad; if I can pull it together, so probably. I feel like I'm letting you down here.
THERAPIST: Stunning (ph?)
CLIENT: (laughs) Yeah. (crying) [00:29:02]
THERAPIST: It isn't too funny over there?
CLIENT: No.
THERAPIST: You sure?
CLIENT: I don't know.
THERAPIST: [...] (inaudible at 00:29:14) that doesn't necessarily sound right. (pause)
CLIENT: [...] (inaudible at 00:29:30) a block from my church. It's on the same block as my church. [00:29:56] (pause) [...] (inaudible at 00:30:12) I guess this is what people do. (long pause) [00:31:36] This is hard today. I don't know why. (long pause) [00:33:01] I feel like I say this is hard as if just saying it out loud makes it easier. It does not. (long pause) [00:34:07] All I can think of is that I just want to cry. I just want to give up. (crying) [...] (inaudible at 00:34:53). I feel like there's no way to say that I don't want to give up. [...] (inaudible at 00:35:20) (pause) At the beginning of the day and the rest of the day, James is there. (crying) [00:36:51] I don't know what you want me to say. (crying) I feel like I'm just strong enough to keep getting back up, but not actually going anywhere. I hate feeling so sorry for myself. (crying) [00:38:01] Also I hate having to blow my nose all the time. (laughs) That's disgusting. (chuckles) [00:38:30] (crying) This is not [...] (inaudible at 00:38:56) (pause) [00:39:40]
THERAPIST: I think you're partly struggling with wanting and not wanting me to be reassuring. One part of you doesn't want to reach for that and hates it when you get it and feels terrible about it; and another part of you, I think, really wants it. I think in parallel with that, probably something that also feels more pseudo-masochistic, is where I'm sitting here watching you cry, basically, and not really doing anything about it, in a way that, I imagine, feels sort of quite cruel to you, but maybe also like you deserve that. [00:40:54]
CLIENT: [...] (inaudible at 00:41:08) (pause) [...] (inaudible at 00:41:48) (pause) [Cruel boss] (ph?) sounds incredibly familiar.
THERAPIST: We should stop for now.
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