TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: Did I mention that I'm going to be away at the end of next week?

CLIENT: Yeah. Also 4:30 on Friday would work?

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: So I'm actually hearing back from jobs, which is really good.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And it seems like basically people are looking for like all different kinds of hours and it seems like I don't know whether I'll be able to make it work, to come in more than three times a week anyway. So the one that I'm really hoping I'll get now is I'll be looking for two days a week, but like 12 hours a day both days.

THERAPIST: Wow.

CLIENT: So, yeah. (Laughs)

THERAPIST: Any job (unclear)?

CLIENT: Yes. (Laughs)

THERAPIST: Those are the two that you really liked.

CLIENT: Yeah, that would be a lot.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: So like then like I would be at work the entire time you're at work if that worked out and that would be like Thursday and Friday.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: So I guess I'm saying, 'yes, I can definitely do 4:30 but I (cross talk)

THERAPIST: Wouldn't do anything.

CLIENT: Wouldn't do anything. Right.

THERAPIST: It depends on how much of this is important in your life.

CLIENT: Yeah. Do you would there be the possibility, any possibility for you to have might you have time like earlier in the day on Thursday and Friday? Because the other thing that a lot of people are looking for is some days from like noon to like 8 or 7 or so.

THERAPIST: Let's see.

(Pause): [00:01:37 00:02:15]

THERAPIST: Maybe, and I will do what I can. Generally within a few months I can do something like that. I just have nothing blocks in my schedule to make that work.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: And I could start looking for stuff like that now regardless of what it looks like.

CLIENT: I don't know what it looks like is going to happen, like, yeah.

THERAPIST: I've got right, because on one hand there are many jobs which are probably more likely afternoon.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: But, and then there are teaching jobs which are probably morning and midday.

CLIENT: Yeah. I'm sort of expecting that I'm not going to get a teaching job more than likely that's kind of not on my radar.

THERAPIST: Most likely (inaudible). All right, so -

CLIENT: I'm hoping to, like I'm getting enough response that I feel like I will figure something out in the next like week or two.

THERAPIST: Okay. All right. And the one you want is the (unclear) job?

CLIENT: Yeah. Well, I think I want it. I'm not sure. Like, I really don't know.

THERAPIST: What is it?

CLIENT: It's a couple that, they live downtown. They've got they live like downtown. THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: But (unclear) because (unclear) wouldn't like (unclear). I think it's like close to the college but mostly it seemed nice from the posting and they've got like a three year old and they do have a three month old, which is a little bit terrifying for me. But babies are like there are like four things that could be wrong with them, you know. (Laughs)

THERAPIST: (Laughs)

CLIENT: You just have to (unclear). [00:04:24]

THERAPIST: You've got to look at it like that.

CLIENT: And they have a dog. And mostly, it's just the scheduling would work better than most (inaudible).

THERAPIST: What are the hours -?

CLIENT: They had it wasn't (unclear) that I asked for. I'm not sure that's like 12 hours a day. The posting was listed for like 25 to 30 hours a week and they said they needed somebody for two days a week and like other (unclear) of the week so I don't know what that is. I'll talk to them about it.

THERAPIST: All right. Well I will keep an eye on early Thursday and Friday.

CLIENT: But -

THERAPIST: Do you want to keep Fridays if we can?

CLIENT: I don't know. I think so.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: Yeah, I think so.

THERAPIST: Okay.

(Pause): [00:05:29 00:05:40]

CLIENT: I've sort of in the last couple of days had like five people say I wanted an interview but I haven't actually had any interviews (laughs) except for one couple I really want to work for, but I probably won't get to because they're looking for somebody for nine hours a week and they're not starting until the end of June and the hours they're looking for are like right in the middle of the time that I would ask for.

THERAPIST: Well I'm glad to hear that you're getting a response. It must be nice (unclear) that they're not going to just (unclear).

CLIENT: Yeah, it is nice. It is nice. You know, I'm like weirdly concerned with nannying as a low prestige job but you know, pretty much my options are all low prestige at this point. (Laughs) I just need to get it out of my head that like working in any office is better than anything else. So, yeah, I just need to get over it. And like the nanny jobs that I've had have been just like really, really good. Mostly in terms of I've worked for really good families and developed really close relationships with them. Yeah.

(Pause): [00:07:07 00:07:12]

THERAPIST: Where are you looking?

CLIENT: I'm sorry?

THERAPIST: Where are you looking?

CLIENT: Pretty much everywhere within a 10-mile radius anywhere that's like a half hour drive around here.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

(Pause): [00:07:22 00:07:32]

CLIENT: Yeah, it's okay.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: It's ridiculously nice to hear that from people. (Laughs) You know, it's nice to be the one telling people no occasionally. (Laughs)

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: So. Yeah, I feel slightly less desperate. People are really weird about their baby sitters. Like occasionally, I don't know I feel like -

(Pause): [00:08:01 00:08:11]

THERAPIST: I'm probably less than surprised that people are weird about anything anymore.

CLIENT: (Laughs) Yeah I guess you probably would not be.

THERAPIST: What I'm curious about in which way?

CLIENT: Oh, just there's a woman who got defensive like I, I'm not (unclear) but is like, 'I'd like to tell you more about the visit and see if you're really interested. I'm very picky.' You know, she's going back to work and she wants to make sure that the household routine stays exactly the same from the way it was before she went back to work. Like your six month old is not going to have his mother with him all the time. The household routine is not going to be the same. (Laugh) Like, it's going to be different. I'm not you. And she's like I want to make sure my husband isn't stressed out about this so I need you to cook him dinner every day. That was really it for me. (Laughing) No. I don't cook my husband dinner. (Laughing)

THERAPIST: (Laughs)

CLIENT: I make lemon pie. (inaudible)

THERAPIST: Yeah?

CLIENT: Yeah. But yeah. So, we'll see. People are like, 'we would like somebody who can speak Mandarin to our two month old. Bi-lingualism is a requirement. I'm like, 'okay?' (Laughs)

THERAPIST: Like maybe.

CLIENT: Yeah, I want something like that.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I hope it doesn't suck.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

(Pause): [00:10:09 00:10:30]

THERAPIST: Yeah, I do too.

(Pause): [00:10:26 00:10:45]

CLIENT: I met up with Joshua this morning for breakfast. I think he was a little bit like shy or hesitant about talking about things to do with the department with me. I said, 'no, tell me about this conference that you went to.' Like, 'how was it?'

(Pause): [00:11:07 00:11:30]

CLIENT: James and I spend a lot of time together in the same place, but we always spend a lot of time in the same place, but we're pretty good at giving each other space like being alone in the same room.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I think -

THERAPIST: That's really neat.

CLIENT: Like most of the day.

THERAPIST: Sure. James works at home.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Yeah?

CLIENT: Yeah, so. And for a long time we were eating the whole pie.

THERAPIST: You ate the whole pie? (Laughs)

CLIENT: (Laughs) It was really good. We watched Highlander for the first and hopefully the last time. (Laughing) It was really something. (Laughs)

THERAPIST: How did that happen?

CLIENT: Oh we wanted to watch a movie and were looking at what Netflix had and we've been watching Battlestar Galactica, this sci-fi show that's been really depressing this season. Like it's a really good show but it talks about tough things. I mean it's a show about like the destruction of the human race and the choices that people make when they're 50,000 human beings left, period. And they're all stuck together. So, you know, things are hard. And so we're both kind of burned out on serious things, I think. So Highlander for a week (cross talk)

THERAPIST: (Unclear) Highlander (unclear). [00:13:18]

CLIENT: Oh, my God. James told me it was going to be campy but I really was not prepared. Like Queen singing Queen did the soundtrack.

THERAPIST: That's right. Yeah.

(Pause): [00:13:36 00:13:56]

CLIENT: (Unclear) I feel like we're on the same page.

(Pause): [00:14:01 00:14:40]

CLIENT: I still haven't made the doctor's appointment to deal with this thyroid thing. I'm afraid I'm just going to forget completely.

(Pause): [00:14:52 00:15:10]

CLIENT: Yeah, I feel like so far externally nothing has changed, but yeah, I'm doing good (unclear). And sort of don't want to poke it (unclear) go away. So (pause) that's unfortunate for you I guess. (Laughs)

THERAPIST: (Laughs)

CLIENT: I don't know. That was a lot more hostile than it sounded in my head. Sorry about that. (Laughs)

THERAPIST: (Laughs)

(Pause): [00:15:54 00:16:11]

THERAPIST: Let us be clear who (unclear) to look at the painful, yucky, disturbing things. (Laughs)

CLIENT: (Laughs)

(Pause): [00:16:23 00:17:01]

CLIENT: I had a not that long, but moderately long discussion with James so that the priest in charge at my church e-mailed everyone the gist of the e-mail was, 'because the church is still shut down as part of a crime scene, we can't work there on Sunday. We're going to the synagogue has offered us space on Sunday and you know, it was a nice e-mail. It was a fine e-mail, but he like, he talked about like, 'isn't it nice that we have the chance to like worship in the home of our spiritual forebears?' And so my view is response, 'is absolutely not. Like that's not -' Jews aren't Christian spiritual forebears, like this is not how it works. Like they are both drawing on the same traditions. He's basically doing the same thing that 9 out of 10 Christians do which is equate second temple Judaism with modern Judaism when they are like totally different things. Oh, I see. And the problem with that is then you get into like looking at Judaism as like an historical thing rather than a religion and like (unclear) and like Jews aren't really important anymore and that's not what he meant to do but, anyway, the question was whether I should send an e-mail about it which I think I'm going to just to like get it off my chest. I can't believe James suggested I well, first we kind of thought about it but and then you're like, 'you should send an e-mail but you should wait a week.'

We've got a lot more to deal with right now.

(Pause): [00:19:05 00:19:09]

THERAPIST: The idea that like early (unclear) Christianity came out of the Jews of that day in part, which is (unclear) Judaism.

CLIENT: Yeah, like modern Judaism is like really didn't develop or didn't even start developing until the destruction of the (unclear) temple which was the same historical event which started modern Christianity. And so like the sacred texts of modern Judaism are yes, the Bible, but also the Mishnah and the Midrash which are like 200 to, however, (unclear). But which is, shockingly enough, developed in the same time period as the sacred texts of Christianity were written.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: So they developed along parallel lines at the same time.

THERAPIST: So it's totally (unclear). [00:20:03]

CLIENT: Yeah and it's just like -

THERAPIST: And he's a religious leader.

CLIENT: Yeah. And he's my religious leader and I don't want him saying that shit. (Laughs)

THERAPIST: (Laughs)

CLIENT: Yeah. It's just ignorant. And, yeah.

(Pause): [00:20:36 00:20:40]

CLIENT: It pissed off most of the Jews I know. Or like that kind of thing. I piss them off, like the people that I (unclear) with. It just it's like maybe I just saw that and they were being like so much and there thought was like how Christianity has replaced Judaism (unclear). I don't know what they're doing but it's not very important.

THERAPIST: (Unclear). I see.

(Pause): [00:21:23 00:21:31]

CLIENT: But it is also like a really small thing to be (unclear) at. But it's like, you know, the same thing as when somebody makes a sexist comment without thinking about it. Do you like, call them on it? And then be like that angry feminist for the rest of the evening or do you like go and have it bother you for the rest of the evening?

THERAPIST: I see.

(Pause): [00:21:50 00:22:10]

CLIENT: I don't want to ever (unclear) say something sexist and mean to be sexist. Like the point of it is that people need to deal with it. And so it's hard to correct them because they get upset because their intentions are good and the point if that, 'of course your intentions are good,' which is why I'm correcting you. (Unclear) I thought they meant to be (unclear) I would go away and not be their friend anymore, but I've been reading a couple of feminist blogs lately and so I was just having our predicted and amicably reputable fight. (Laughs) Most of which boils down to James being a little bit less of a feminist than I am but that much. (Laughs)

THERAPIST: You guys are like radically (unclear). [00:23:23]

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah.

(Pause): [00:23:25 00:23:48]

CLIENT: I guess it's more like we're in agreement on principle and disagreement on how to handle oneself if you believe that, yeah.

(Pause): [00:24:08 00:24:36]

CLIENT: My sister-in-law finished her Master's Degree. She's very happy about it which I think is (inaudible).

(Pause): [00:24:50 00:24:58]

CLIENT: My sister-in-law is going back to work and this will entail putting her two year old in day care for a time because she has this is really not relevant to anything, but it's what' I'm thinking about. (Laughing) So she asked James's mom if she could like watch her while she's gone and James's mom was like, 'No, we're done.' So, go her.

THERAPIST: (Laughs)

CLIENT: You know I think both Vivienne and Jessica had kind of a hard time like figuring out what to do getting off the ground in different ways and so James's mom ends up like watching their kids a lot.

THERAPIST: (Unclear).

CLIENT: Yeah.

(Pause): [00:25:52 00:25:57]

CLIENT: James told me I'm turning into his mom yesterday. I'm not sure how I feel about that. (Laughs)

THERAPIST: (Laughs)

CLIENT: I'm pretty sure it's because we're passing a group walking in and I said something to the effect of about one of the people like, 'if it's cold enough for a coat, why is it not cold enough for socks?' (Laughs)

THERAPIST: (Laughs)

CLIENT: So. Anyway, I've gotten really grumpy.

(Pause): [00:26:24 00:26:31]

CLIENT: This is about a man, not a woman. Because if it was a woman their clothes are totally different.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: Yeah.

(Pause): [00:26:41 00:26:44]

CLIENT: I ran into a friend from the coffee shop yesterday. She was somebody I'd been like trying to set up a time to go out for drinks like a couple of weeks and sort of let it lapse and like I want to be friends with her but not urgently and also like she's not a good enough friend for me to feel totally comfortable around her so that there's always like anxiety about being out with her. I was walking with James and she was walking with two of her friends and it was like sort of awkward for me when everybody introduces themselves and we talk like for 30 seconds and then like, 'are you going to keep talking or are you just going to run away?' (Laughs) I chose to run away. (Laughs) Part of me. So and then felt bad about it for a couple of hours.

(Pause): [00:28:01 00:28:08]

CLIENT: And then we had pie. (Unclear) (Laughs)

(Pause): [00:28:13 00:28:32]

CLIENT: James's birthday is in two days and I've been thinking about what to get him for literally a month and I have not gotten him (unclear) yet. Mostly it's that I was going to get him a DVD but the prices jumped by like $25 between the time that I decided to get him it and the time I ordered it and (unclear) I feel like this is pretty typical for me. I think about it but it doesn't happen.

(Pause): [00:29:14 00:29:21]

THERAPIST: (Unclear) will be back this afternoon I think.

(Pause): [00:29:26 00:29:45]

CLIENT: Just you know, kind of just sitting here saying what I think successfully made me more anxious. (Laughs)

THERAPIST: (inaudible).

CLIENT: (Laughs)

THERAPIST: (Laughs)

CLIENT: Well, it is. It works very well. (Laughs)

THERAPIST: Sorry, I should -

CLIENT: (Laughs) Why?

THERAPIST: Because -

(Pause): [00:30:14 00:30:29]

THERAPIST: I think there's a way in which you're being a little more assertive with me today that I think is probably part of what's making you anxious and you know, what's useful probing my commenting on that or thinking about it, not, you know, what I think was like a possibly (unclear) respond or reacting to it.

CLIENT: Okay.

(Pause): [00:31:09 [00:31:15]

CLIENT: It didn't bother me.

THERAPIST: Sure. (Unclear) good.

CLIENT: Maybe.

THERAPIST: (Laughs)

CLIENT: I don't know. (Laughs)

THERAPIST: (Laughs)

CLIENT: Oh. (Laughs)

(Pause): [00:31:26 00:31:42]

THERAPIST: I mean I gather you make comments like that which have a little snip to them and then (unclear) and anxious.

CLIENT: Yes. Yes, that's about accurate.

(Pause): [00:31:54 00:32:06]

THERAPIST: And I think that -

(Pause): [00:32:06 00:32:29]

THERAPIST: You know maybe the whole package of things is a little hard to stop and think about which is why it sort of happens and passes and goes away. But then you have to (unclear) (Laughing)

CLIENT: (Laughs) Well you know, ideally that would make it easier to think about it but, yeah.

(Pause): [00:32:43 00:32:56]

CLIENT: I mean, I think that when I, I mean, well I think that when I say things that are actually snide, you know, maybe a lot snide that that's supposed to be a good thing in the sense of like if I didn't feel comfortable with you I won't make fun of you. But, then I'm really never quite sure how much you agree with me on that kind of thing. (Laughing)

THERAPIST: (Laughs)

CLIENT: So I say things and then wish I could take them back.

THERAPIST: Because maybe actually it wasn't the thing to do.

CLIENT: Yeah,

(Pause): [00:33:49 00:35:01]

THERAPIST: (Unclear) therapy like in the sense that I sort of look at quips and whatever as kind of how (cross talk)

CLIENT: Is this the thing of like analyzing humor is like dissecting a frog?

THERAPIST: Something like yeah.

CLIENT: Have you heard that oh, Mark Twain said, "analyzing humor is like dissecting a frog." Something like, 'it's kind of gross and the frog dies from it.'

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: He didn't say, 'it's kind of gross I've forgotten the first half of that.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: But that was close enough.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

(Pause): [00:35:52 00:36:06]

THERAPIST: But part of what you're saying is that you are feeling more at ease.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And wary, but more at ease, first.

CLIENT: Yeah. I'm sure that if I'm honest with myself part of my like making fun of you is also expressing things that I'm slightly less comfortable with about therapy or talking about, you know therapy is not all wonderful all the time. But (laughs)

THERAPIST: Yeah, I mean that's been the gist of a lot of the kinds of things that you say.

CLIENT: And not the sort of thing that I less aware of as I'm saying it and sort of in (unclear). So, yeah. I believe you.

THERAPIST: I imagine those things go together feeling more, sort of a bit more comfortable with me and feeling like you can be kind of critical.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Or, more accurate to say, you can voice criticism that you have.

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: (Cross talk unclear). I'm actually thinking of (unclear). You may be but I (unclear) keep a log. Yes.

CLIENT: Yeah. I mean -

(Pause): [00:37:55 00:38:00]

CLIENT: I guess it's like with priests at my church saying the same thing of my church is really important to me like being a member of my church is really important to me. It didn't matter like if I weren't a member of his congregation like I would be there sending out an e-mail in five minutes letting him know this is wrong and not think about it. But even that, probably, I would only say it because like it's important to me that I'm a Christian and so I feel like educating other Christians that sounds really condescending it is important to me. If I weren't Christian like I wouldn't care when people make fools of themselves. Because both it's really important for me to speak up and it would be really excruciating to do so.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Again, like it's another way to be in a leadership or a teaching type of role where like it is my church and my classroom, like there is some equation of me like what I'm doing and what my role is (unclear).

(Pause): [00:39:58 00:40:04]

THERAPIST: And so therefore it's like to be critical or bothered about therapy is to be critical of me.

CLIENT: Yes. Yeah.

(Pause): ` [00:40:15 00:40:29]

CLIENT: I guess I just assume that I get the feeling that you put a lot of yourself into your job. But like this is a role that, yeah, I don't know how to say it other than you put a lot of yourself into it.

THERAPIST: I still don't see how that equates with my therefore as belief in it in every way or like not wanting to be criticized, you know what I mean? Like -

CLIENT: I see what you mean. I think, I mean I think I was just I feel like

THERAPIST: (inaudible)

CLIENT: Yeah. (Laughs)

(Pause): [00:41:38 00:41:45]

THERAPIST: And I guess in the, apparently in this sort of almost idealistic kind of way -

CLIENT: I don't know. I think I'm pretty idealistic about thinking that -

(Pause): [00:42:10 00:42:30]

CLIENT: I think in some ways I feel a need to think that this kind of system must be important to you. I practice I feel like every time I like given myself to a system or like (unclear) into it I've ended up, it's hard to stay idealistic about something that you spend all your time doing. Like yeah, you see the things that are really good about it and the things that are really bad about it. I know people who do but that usually involves a lot of like denial.

THERAPIST: Let's stop there.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: I'll keep you posted on earlier day times.

CLIENT: (inaudible)

THERAPIST: Yeah, is earlier better, period? Or is like the extension I think you've applied for what?

CLIENT: I am not really sure at all. Sorry.

THERAPIST: Yeah. No problem.

CLIENT: (inaudible)

END TRANSCRIPT