Transcript of Audio File:
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:
THERAPIST: Hi.
CLIENT: Hi. It's been a weird day so far. I'm really anxious. I guess that's not actually that weird for me. I'm feeling really anxious and I'm not sure why. I'll start to do something and think that I'm not going to be able to do it right anyway; and then not be able to start doing it, including things like getting dressed. [00:01:00] That literally happened when I was getting dressed. (laughs) I'm not going to get dressed right. (laughs) All of the things I have to be anxious about seem pretty silly. (pause) I'm anxious about it being James's birthday, even though I'm entirely sure that he doesn't really care one way or the other. He's said on multiple occasions that it's not a big deal for him, so he doesn't want it to be a big deal. [00:02:03] (sigh) (pause) But I want to take care of him. (pause) (sigh) It's really hot in here. TBrians. Yesterday it said it was going to be like 60� today and today it says it's going to be like 70�, which is nice. (pause) [00:03:03]
(pause) I'm afraid I'm going downhill again and I don't want to and I don't quite know how to arrest that. I feel like the more I think about it the more likely it is that I'll just get worse. It's not always easy to stop thinking about things. I had like four or five really good days in there. (sighs) [00:04:08] (pause)
THERAPIST: Yeah, you've been really anxious, huh?
CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah. I'm worried about how therapy is going to go today. (pause) I guess I feel like I need to keep it together [in a good way.] (ph?) (pause) [00:05:14] Not that that actually results in anything. My thinking is that it doesn't do anything. I'm not sure that's true. (pause) [00:06:11]
THERAPIST: It sounds like you might feel you have to keep it together because it's James's birthday and even if he doesn't want to "go big" with it you don't want it to be a day where he's got to be taking a lot of care of you or worrying about you and things like that.
CLIENT: Yeah, exactly.
THERAPIST: And you're worried something is going to happen here that's going to really upset you [ ] (crosstalk at 00:06:59)
CLIENT: Yeah. (long pause) [00:08:20] I think I need to stop watching so much TV. It really is bad. I just get really critical of it, which is kind of the opposite of the point. I started watching Alias because Battlestar Galactica was really depressing me. I needed a break from that. After three episodes I was like, "No, I can't do this."
THERAPIST: [ ] (inaudible at 00:09:03)
CLIENT: It's like a spy show. I feel like when all of my enjoyment of a show comes out of saying snarky things about it, I just shouldn't watch it. (both laugh) [00:09:22] They're just really bad at it. It was like why did everyone carry a gun except the heroine? Really? You can carry all of this cool stuff around except for a weapon of some kind? Points for being able to use chairs and things when you're beating people up, but really? You could just get a gun. It would be okay. Super-secret meeting by accident with your contact. You're looking at each other. (laughs) You're two people having a conversation. It's pretty clear that you're not being subtle at all. They're just really bad at it. The same thing is sort of happening with the West Wing, only it's me criticizing Aaron Sorkin's writing, (laughs) such that any time he wants to show that a character is affected by something that is going on in his life and it's spilling over into his work, he does it with a slip of the tongue. Like he refers to someone's father and says "his grandfather," because the character is having trouble with his father. Okay, you can do that once. But when that's the only thing you're doing and it's not the only thing he's doing. [00:11:00]
THERAPIST: It's a little contrived.
CLIENT: I find it a little irritating. I'm pretty sure it won an Emmy for best screen writing two years in a row, (laughing) so I'm probably not going to do much better. Maybe I should just read more books. (pause) I'm afraid that I won't find a job (sighs) or that I'll find a job and it will be awful. [00:12:03] (crying) (pause) I guess today I'm just not feeling like I give back very much and like I'm drained of resources or something. [00:13:00] (pause) I feel like I'm the person that other people take care of and . . .
THERAPIST: I wonder if you're worried about being kind of demanding with me, like "Better not upset me today."
CLIENT: I don't know. (sighs) (long pause) [00:14:53] It's true that I feel like this relationship is very one-sided, obviously, and sometimes that bothers me more than others. Right now or today it's sort of been like all of my relationships are pretty one-sided. That's getting to me. (pause)
THERAPIST: It's like you feel a huge drain and like a failure in that way. [00:15:50]
CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) Yeah. And when I try to get out of that dynamic I don't do very well. (pause) [00:17:03] I can't tell whether this sitting and talking and not distracting myself with other things, but just sitting and talking whether that itself just makes me more anxious and upset or whether I was going to be anxious and upset anyway and it just takes away all of the excuses for not doing it and all of the diversions, I guess. I think I'm going to go with the second, but . . . [00:18:01] (pause)
THERAPIST: I think you're in a bit of a pickle in that the more you feel worried about falling apart or being demanding . . .
CLIENT: The more I fall apart and that's the more demanding outcome. (chuckles)
THERAPIST: . . . the closer you feel close to doing that. (pause) [00:18:54]
CLIENT: And yet, when I say to myself, "Don't worry about it," shockingly enough, that doesn't really work like when James tells me not to worry about things I can't remember.
THERAPIST: Yes. (client laughs) (long pause) [00:21:13] I think maybe there's also a way that you feel safer here when you feel more anxious, in that if you're feeling anxious, if you're feeling fragile, you won't like that because it will feel like it's sort of about me taking care of you in some way that you really don't want it to be; but maybe you're also less likely to say something assertive or aggressive or giving me some kind of indication I'm not useful to you in some way that you might worry will get you into real trouble. [00:22:45]
CLIENT: I would really expect that to be the case. Humph. (pause)
THERAPIST: I wonder if it fits together from some other things from this week where you felt more like being assertive or critical with me and then [ ] (inaudible at 00:23:49) and you're worried you might be more that way here. [00:24:01]
CLIENT: I wonder if it has to do with knowing what to expect and not knowing what to expect. (pause) I guess [ ] (inaudible at 00:24:27) that on Monday I was doing really well and in a very good mood, kind of joking around and said some things that both, from what you said and from what I heard as they came out of my mouth, I was like, "Oh, wow, that's a little bit biting," but I didn't mean for that to happen; but I didn't expect that, so I wonder if it is . . . I feel like I'm less in control of what happens when I'm doing well. [00:25:29] (pause)
THERAPIST: And that you could say something that you would then feel really guilty about.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: I'm not thinking it's so much that if you say something like that you're worried like the other shoe is going to drop with me and I'm going to fuss and get pissed off or something, I think it's more like you feel really guilty and maybe worried that you've hurt me in some way. [00:26:10]
CLIENT: Yeah, I think so.
THERAPIST: I'm trying to be nice and I'm trying to help, and you say this biting thing; and I put a good face on, but it hurt and you feel horrible.
CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah. I can't really tell when I've hurt your feelings, so the best I can do is say, "Well, would that have hurt my feelings?" and my feelings are hurt pretty easily. (chuckles) Yeah. (pause) (sighs) [00:27:12] Hmm. (pause) It doesn't work, though. I'm not actually able to predict how our sessions are going to go better when I'm doing badly than when I'm doing well. (laughs) It's pretty ineffective. [ ] (inaudible at 00:27:44) (laughs) [00:28:04]
Yeah, I think the "not being able to predict" thing is hard on me. Yeah. Like I can't necessarily predict how I'm going to be feeling at the end of the session and I have no idea how you're feeling, so I have to kind of construct that. I don't know. (pause) [00:29:15] It feels like anything I say could be immensely destructive. (sighs)
THERAPIST: Yeah, [ ] (inaudible at 00:29:35)
CLIENT: Yeah. I feel like when I stop policing what I'm saying very, very carefully, I always end up saying the wrong thing. But I'm also trying to stop policing what I'm saying so carefully, so . . . [00:30:36]
THERAPIST: I think part of the tricky spots I hear you saying is that you sort of feel oriented that way, that people around you who are essentially taking care of you are really quite fragile and quite vulnerable. I think it just feels that way to you even if your head is trying to tell you something different that it feels like that. I think part of what's tricky about that is that then is, obviously, you're more worried about hurting us. But I think you're also probably really pissed off at us for it, too, because it kind of sucks when it feels like the people who are there to help you out are pretty fragile and delicate. You want them to be sturdy and able to handle whatever you might have to throw or might need. [00:32:00] I guess I imagine that, again, it puts you in this sort of tricky spot where you wish you didn't have to worry so much about what you said and that it could hurt me, that something is going to slip out that is going to make me feel really bad and make you feel really guilty, like it's a frustrating thing to have to worry about. At the same time, where are you going to go with that frustration if anything that you could say could be very hurtful to me? [00:33:02] (pause)
CLIENT: It doesn't feel like [ ] (inaudible at 00:33:26), does it?
THERAPIST: No. It's probably not that clear. The more I think about it, there's probably something there, too, with James's birthday, where sometimes you're worried he secretly wants it to be great, but where you're going to mess it up, I think. I think you're worried that he's fragile around it especially that you're worried that you're going to screw it all up in some way that makes you feel awful about yourself and very guilty vis-�-vis him. [00:34:01]
CLIENT: Even though I also know that there is very little . . . if I did drop the ball entirely on this and his feelings were hurt, they'd be very mildly hurt. He really wouldn't care very much. I know that.
THERAPIST: The standard there is that you're dealing with is your own and not his.
CLIENT: But I'm not sure my feelings would be very hurt if somebody forgot my birthday, either. I don't know where I'm getting that from. (laughs)
THERAPIST: I guess I imagine I don't know why it's this way but I imagine it has something to do with your sign of your confidence or your fitness as a human being that you should be able to be there for your husband around his birthday. In other words, it's not necessarily what you care about or what he cares about, it's sort of like being able to fill out a job application, being able to show an apartment. [00:35:09]
CLIENT: This is what people do for each other. I should be able to do this.
THERAPIST: Yes. Like you're a mess or you're a laggard. You can't handle anything if you're not doing this.
CLIENT: Yeah. Something like that.
THERAPIST: (pause) That seems to be the driver of it more than that you care a lot about your birthday and are projecting that on him, where he cares a lot about it or . . .
CLIENT: No, I don't care at all about my birthday. (pause) [00:36:05]
THERAPIST: It's one of those things one always manages, like just being able to work being able to handle and tackle the things that you should be able to handle and tackle.
CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) James does not end up being the center of attention very often. James doesn't have people celebrating him a whole lot; so maybe it's just that I feel like in our day-to-day life I just feel like I don't do enough of my share of the work or I feel like I don't do enough. [00:37:18]
THERAPIST: Again, it goes back to you doing an inadequate job.
CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah. (pause) My being in school would feel really good in some ways, but really terrible in others, especially that it would be probably more than I could manage like the very clear expectations of classes. This is the work you have to do. Just do this.
THERAPIST: Yeah, the syllabus.
CLIENT: (pause) [00:38:25] Although I'm not actually sure it works like that, having done all of my homework and still feel like I wasn't earning my space. (pause)
THERAPIST: In here I don't think it's just that. I mean there is that around having things to say, I think, and free-associating where the competence issue plays out, I think, in terms of that; but there's something else going on when you said the things that sound biting, at least this week, that seems not quite the same thing, I don't think. [00:39:38]
CLIENT: No, I don't think so. (pause) I guess it's just terrifying for me that you would be picking up on criticisms that I wasn't even aware of having and certainly wasn't aware of making, but that when you point it out I say, "Oh, yeah. That's about right." (pause) [00:40:51] I feel like I can't guard myself all the time.
THERAPIST: And for reasons that don't seem quite clear yet, it's very difficult to tolerate having those feelings in the first place. But there's something that makes you feel like it's really bad, like unconscionable or something. [00:41:50]
CLIENT: I keep thinking about Brian when I was dating him. I'd kind of joke around with him and make fun of him and sometimes he would take it well and sometimes he would take it really badly. I don't know which time were which. (pause) I'm really not okay with having those feelings in the first place. [00:42:53]
THERAPIST: I guess I do imagine that shades into some concern about my reaction.
CLIENT: I don't know. Maybe. I guess the thing with Brian was that when he reacted like that I could kind of say, "You shouldn't be treating my [ ] (inaudible at [0:43:24] of me like this and this is inappropriate." At the same time it was clear that it really, really hurt him. He was reacting like that because he was really hurt, so I think it's more that that you might be really hurt by what I'd say and I would have no way of telling or predicting or avoiding it. (pause) Yeah. (crying) [00:44:04]
THERAPIST: You're really afraid of how damaging it could be.
CLIENT: Yeah. (crying)
THERAPIST: I guess that's very dangerous.
CLIENT: Yeah. (pause)
THERAPIST: We can stop for now.
END TRANSCRIPT
