Client "Ma", Session May 14, 2013: Client may have to relocate for her spouse's work. Client also talks about her ECT and her depression. trial

in Psychoanalytic Psychotherapy Collection by Anonymous Male Therapist; presented by Anonymous (Alexandria, VA: Alexander Street, 2013), 1 page(s)

TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:


BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: (inaudible 00:32)

CLIENT: No, that's fine. Yeah.

(Silence)

THERAPIST: (inaudible 00:54)

CLIENT: I'm a little nervous [about starting work] (ph). [I feel like] (ph) these last couple of days haven't been great.

THERAPIST: You start tomorrow?

CLIENT: Yeah. I think their flight gets in today, and then I come in tomorrow. I'm doing a thing where, you know, you just, like, are thinking about nothing in particular and then, like, I'll remember something I did that was, like, not exactly in line with the best image I have of myself. And then I, like, beat myself up about it a lot. (inaudible 01:54) (Pause) Oh, you cut that person off on the sidewalk. Why didn't you let her go first?

(Silence)

CLIENT: The one person that James would want to work with there is going for a post-doc. Potentially starting in July. [It's only] (ph) if it's really good. (inaudible 02:50) I think he was not expecting me to be as, like, excited and supportive as I was. So, go me. (Laughter) (Pause) It's this weird thing because, like, if we move, it'll be for James's job and moving, at this point, would be a great cost to me and a great risk for me. But I don't think James is like, I don't think he really knows what he wants to do. I think he probably is going to do a post-doc mainly because that's, like, the logical next step (inaudible 03:48). (Pause) So [all this] (ph) talking about where we're going to go next is a little strange right now. You know, I've told him I would prefer to stay here, but at the same time, I feel like (pause) it's sort of my turn to make a sacrifice for the couple, if that makes sense.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: (inaudible 04:46) I just got this job. I haven't even started yet. At least I was upfront with them about it's (ph) a possibility that I might have to move for James's post-doc. (Pause) (inaudible 05:48) scared. I'm not, like, actually doing all that well. Like, I'm I sort of feel like I'm okay right now but (ph) things are very precarious. [It's like, I don't know] (ph). I don't know. (Pause) And [I'm scared of losing] (ph).

(Silence)

CLIENT: The [writing's gotten] (ph) better (inaudible 07:19). It's not great writing. I feel like I have this conundrum of when I'm really in motion, like, close to a topic, I don't write as well about it. But when I'm, you know, settled enough or far enough away to really pay attention to the prose, then I don't get at what I actually want to say about the topic necessarily (ph) as well. It's not as important.

(Silence)

CLIENT: (inaudible 08:33) just write more. (Laughter)

(Silence)

CLIENT: I was really sad yesterday about losing, I don't know, the idea of myself as a scholar. I was willing to move across the country for my husband for two years for his degree. (Pause) And some women can't even (inaudible 10:03). Like, I don't even remember why I left. Like, I don't remember I feel like I don't remember enough about what things were like at Brown to tell why I needed to leave. I'm like, "Well, I guess I must have had good reason." You know, considering the things that didn't make me leave or (inaudible 10:32). [I'm just sad] (ph) about not being there anymore. I've been back on Facebook in the last couple of days. I think it's just not good for me.

THERAPIST: (inaudible 10:54)

CLIENT: Yeah. I just get grumpy at people. A girl I went to college with just did (inaudible 11:05), which is, like, awesome for her but, like, you know. I'm not actually in contact with her, so, you know. Like, mostly (ph) it was, like, a few really interesting articles that people put up, and then a lot of articles that make me want to punch a wall. And then a lot of people talking about their lives that just make me jealous and unhappy. So maybe I should stop. (Laughter) Yeah. It's not like I missed it during the two months that I didn't check it.

(Silence)

CLIENT: I hate being jealous. I just hate it. I feel so awful. Like, why can't I be happy for somebody else? I'm getting tired of, like, convince yourself that that's not actually how you feel. That works about as well as you would expect. (Laughter) But I don't want to be that person. I don't want to be bitter in the way that I am bitter.

(Silence)

CLIENT: I mean, I feel like I'm a (ph) weird and prickly (ph) person all the time. Like, I'm trying to relearn how to be in relationships with people and, like, talk to people and have conversations. And I am not very good at it. You know, like I can sort of perform the same reactions and mannerisms and manner that I used to have, but it's not that easy. Like, it's not really what I want to be doing. [00:14:35]

I told a woman at church about the ECT the other night. She was this older woman. I was just sort of trying out telling people about it. She's the woman in the lay liturgist, who's the person in charge of, like, making sure that the service runs. And so, and I was (inaudible 15:06) carrying the candles and serving the wine and (inaudible 15:14). I said, "Just so you know, like, I've had medical things that one of the side effects is memory loss. And so I haven't done this in a while, and I kind of forgot how to do it. So I'm going to follow (inaudible 15:26)." I'm not sure where I was going. I feel like I had a point with this, but it's gone. But anyway, (laughter) whatever.

It was fine, you know. Like, I think she was she immediately asked me if I got headaches or migraines, because she apparently she's in her, like, 60s I think, maybe 70s, and she had been worried that she was getting Alzheimer's because she would have these migraines and then not remember things afterwards. And her doctor told her that memory loss was from the migraines, not from Alzheimer's. And I said, "No, no. (inaudible 16:15)." I don't know. (Pause) I think what I wanted to say or what I was thinking about was that I, like, told her this and then I immediately tried to pass it off as not that big of a deal. Like, tried very, very hard. (Laughter) Like, "Oh, that's fine. No, it was okay. No, it wasn't that good of an experience for me, but, you know, most people do well with it. Oh, no. I'm feeling better." (Laughter)

(inaudible 17:18) everyone else who serves and that, like, who there are a lot of weird people at the church. (Laughter) I'm among friends. I'd have to try pretty hard to be the weirdest person in the room. (Laughter) Yeah. I feel like I think certainly this church, and I think other churches, tend to attract (inaudible 17:52) lonely, awkward people to at least for, like, the (pause) at least for, like, lay ministers and helping lead the service (inaudible 18:14). You know, I found my people.

(Silence)

CLIENT: Maybe what it is I don't know. I don't know (inaudible 19:42), like, thinking of different conversations of trying to figure out (inaudible 19:48). I think it's maybe that I haven't, like, have lost control or a conversation or noticed that I have lost control over the conversation. Or, like, trying not to try to control the conversation as much, and it just makes me panic.

(Silence)

CLIENT: I guess I just feel a lot more vulnerable in individual interactions with people. Like, it's I feel much more vulnerable as the person who, you know, just dropped out of grad school for depression than I did as (inaudible 20:45). I sort of knew who I was there. I don't really know how people are going to react to me. Maybe I just see myself differently (ph) than (inaudible 21:04).

(Silence)

THERAPIST: I don't think you're all that hopeful that they'll react all that well.

CLIENT: No. (Laughter)

THERAPIST: And…

(Silence)

THERAPIST: I think that sort of (pause) relates to the way that you kind of (pause) manage your own anxiety about where you're at and various things you feel about that. Like, it sucks to say something to somebody and then feel like they look at you funny. Or even if they didn't, clearly everybody knows you're a weirdo. I mean, it sucks, but it's familiar. (Laughter)

CLIENT: Yeah, okay. (Laughter)

THERAPIST: And (pause) it may beat, like, worrying yourself about where you're at or how things are going. (Sneezes)

CLIENT: Bless you.

THERAPIST: Or bitter. [Feel less] (ph) critical. (Pause) Which I do think makes you very anxious.

CLIENT: I guess I don't see how those are mutually exclusive.

THERAPIST: Okay, so one example would be I guess what you first described, being worried about work and thinking about things you've done wrong or ways you've screwed up as kind of (pause) something you seem to be doing in response to that. Like, it's sort of trading the familiar feeling of being confident or a fuck-up (inaudible 26:07) that already happened. Or the worry about how the big move is going to go.

CLIENT: Okay

THERAPIST: Or (pause) sort of telling the person at church about the ECT, and then immediately feeling, I think, kind of ashamed about having told her and like you are a weirdo, and you're standing out, and it's (inaudible 26:38).

CLIENT: But that's still better than not telling people, in some ways. (Pause) Like, I would rather tell people and have the awkward reaction, than not tell people and feel like (pause) (inaudible 27:19) than not tell people and be sort of (pause) expecting that awkwardness to happen or feeling like I can't live up to my side of the conversation (ph).

THERAPIST: Yeah, it sounds like there may be kind of a struggle there, where you're telling people in part to help yourself feel better about it. Like, "Okay, I'm going to put it out there. I'm going to deal with whatever awkwardness, discomfort there is. And then hopefully, that will help me to feel better about it." And part of you, like, to some extent, that's how it goes. And I think to some extent, you sort of (pause) put it out there and then sort of feel ashamed and (inaudible 28:11) and so forth. Like, if it preemptively, to kind of run from the uncertainty. But I do think you're right that's it's both. Maybe I'm wrong about that, but my (inaudible 28:23) there's just kind of some of each. There's a little bit of, like, preemptive kind of…

CLIENT: Defending (ph)?

THERAPIST: Yeah, defending (ph) or criticizing or whatever. And also some, "Okay, it's out there. There it is. Right there. Let's wait and see."

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: In a sort of a stronger way.

CLIENT: Yeah. I think I won't feel better when I tell more people about it. It just it feels like I can't. it's just it's such a big thing, that it feels like I'm lying to people (inaudible 29:08). Friends, at least.

(Silence)

THERAPIST: [I wonder] (ph) why. I mean, I know it's a big thing that's happened. I get that. But (pause) I guess I'm struck that it feels like lying in a way that I mean, because it isn't lying. Is it lying?

CLIENT: No. I mean -

THERAPIST: In that, I mean if you decided you didn't want to tell people, it wouldn't be because you were sort of willfully deceptive or some kind of bad intent (inaudible 30:14) feel comfortable telling people or whatever.

CLIENT: I think a lot of it is, like, I don't remember what I've done with my friends for the last couple of years. Like, I sit down and talk to Joshua (ph) and I'm like, "I don't remember what we did at Brown together."

THERAPIST: I see. So the lying isn't in not telling them about the EPT per se.

CLIENT: No.

THERAPIST: It's in pretending you know what happened.

CLIENT: Yeah. (Laughter)

THERAPIST: I understand.

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah. I think.

THERAPIST: Yeah. No, that makes sense. (inaudible 30:56) [but I see how] (ph). Like, you have to do a lot of playing along, and then (inaudible 31:04) recollection of (ph).

(Silence)

CLIENT: I think it's interesting that I don't know. I just was struck by I told you two things in sequence, and you said that the one was causative to the other. And I hadn't thought of them (ph) as being connected. That I said, you know, I'm nervous about work. And then I said I've been beating myself up about these things. (inaudible 32:08) I'm still not convinced. [You're usually right about that] (ph). (Laughter) (inaudible 32:38) Like, part of me wants to be I want to be living back in Texas, but I don't want to change my life anymore right now. I don't want to have to, like, rebuild from scratch all of the things that are supporting me and taking care of me. I don't want to find a new therapist. I don't want to find a new church.

(Silence)

THERAPIST: Well, I guess it's (ph) pretty much taken all you've got to, like, putting (ph) stuff in place and [live within here] (ph).

CLIENT: Yeah. So I feel like I just, like, got a situation that might work.

THERAPIST: Yeah, and I guess this is something that isn't really in your control either, in a way. [00:34:49]

CLIENT: Not at all. Yeah. (Pause) If I told James we absolutely can't move, I think he would try to make it work. But, like, I don't think I could do that. Yeah, I don't think that would be right.

(Silence)

CLIENT: Something else to worry about. That's what it feels like. All the worry was just kind of there and defused, and now this is just something to concentrate it on. Like, something that I can say I'm worried about, as opposed to being really worried. (Laughter)

THERAPIST: Maybe [all the] (ph) worry is about (inaudible 36:50) things aren't great now, at all. The point is they're better than they were a few months ago. And that the crummy part about that is, like, you can be afraid of falling back into that, and moving could instigate that.

CLIENT: Yeah. That's exactly right.

(Silence)

CLIENT: I feel like there's a lot riding on my staying relatively okay. I don't know. I feel like people might be [done with] (ph) taking care of me. (inaudible 38:20) I don't want to ask people to do that again. (inaudible 38:35) I don't want James to have to take care of me that much again. [I don't] (ph). (Pause) I feel like it'd be too much for him.

THERAPIST: Well, I imagine you feel moving as being abandoned, in a way, by James. By me. You know if you chose not to say to James, "No, I can't do this," it would still be something that felt very much against your interests. I mean, even if you also felt like it was the right thing to do.

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah, that's right.

THERAPIST: I think, you know, in some ways (inaudible 39:55) it would feel like [he is] (ph), you know, ignoring what was important to you or what mattered to you. I mean, I expect he wouldn't be, that he'd be thinking about it or weighing it. You know, listening to what you said about it. But, yeah (ph).

CLIENT: No, I think that's right.

THERAPIST: And by me as well. Like, (pause) I wouldn't be (inaudible 40:32) from that or finding some way to make it not happen. Or moving down there with you. (Laughter)

CLIENT: Yeah. (Laughter) Yeah, I guess that's…

THERAPIST: This is part of why you feel like you've kind of (pause) run out of (pause), like, (inaudible 41:11).

CLIENT: Yeah. I feel like I want everything to stay exactly the same, which is so that I can get my feet under me. I feel like everyone around me is just, like, sort of exhausted from the last couple of years. My depression needs not to be the thing that everyone has to deal with for a while.

THERAPIST: That's pretty much how you felt at every step (laughter) [I think] (ph).

CLIENT: Yeah. Okay. (Laughter)

THERAPIST: I understand. Like, I'm not saying, you know, your depression hasn't weighed on James or been difficult or stressful for him (inaudible 42:28). I mean in a way, I don't really know, but it seems plausible to me, I guess. I'm just saying, I think there's often another part of the story, which is you never felt, like, except in those moments we talked about this, although I suspect you don't remember, that (inaudible 42:57) as sort of going to the hospital sort of moments where, you know, you kind of felt like, "Okay, I'm done. I just need to (inaudible 43:04)." Like, at moments like that, you kind of give into that. But otherwise, (pause) you've consistently had to struggle pretty hard against letting yourself do that. Against not letting yourself do that. Does that make sense?

CLIENT: Yeah. That's good to think about. (Pause) Helps me kind of check those tendencies (ph).

THERAPIST: Yeah. And I think those (pause) there have been variations on it, but it often boils down to "because the people around me [have just had it] (ph)." (inaudible 44:06) just on the verge of getting angry, taking off. I'm done. In one way or another.

CLIENT: (inaudible 44:15)

THERAPIST: Yeah, I think that's right. I mean, (pause) I'm not saying you never know (ph) anything about it. I mean, James could say something like…

CLIENT: (inaudible 44:45)

THERAPIST: But -

CLIENT: And I'm not actually (inaudible 44:49) about that, [of course] (ph).

(Silence)

CLIENT: (inaudible 45:22) if we need to move, [I'll get through] (ph). (inaudible 45:28) That's not actually that reassuring. (Laughter) Or believable, maybe. I got through all the other things, but I'm not exactly sure how. Like, how am I not dead?

THERAPIST: We should (ph) stop for now. So see you on Thursday at 7:30?

CLIENT: Yeah. Thursday?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Okay, thanks (ph).

THERAPIST: Yeah. Is that -

CLIENT: Yeah, I think I wrote it down right, and then told James Wednesday.

THERAPIST: Okay.

END TRANSCRIPT

1
Abstract / Summary: Client may have to relocate for her spouse's work. Client also talks about her ECT and her depression.
Field of Interest: Counseling & Therapy
Publisher: Alexander Street Press
Content Type: Session transcript
Format: Text
Page Count: 1
Page Range: 1-1
Publication Year: 2013
Publisher: Alexander Street
Place Published / Released: Alexandria, VA
Subject: Counseling & Therapy; Psychology & Counseling; Health Sciences; Theoretical Approaches to Counseling; Family and relationships; Work; Teoria do Aconselhamento; Teorías del Asesoramiento; Hired for job; Spousal relationships; Psychoanalytic Psychology; Depression (emotion); Psychotherapy; Electroconvulsive therapy
Presenting Condition: Depression (emotion)
Clinician: Anonymous
Keywords and Translated Subjects: Teoria do Aconselhamento; Teorías del Asesoramiento
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