TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: So you (inaudible 00:02) it was completely ambiguous and you actually (inaudible 00:05)?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Okay. (inaudible 00:07) That's what I thought. (inaudible 00:09)

CLIENT: Anyway, so I'm really tired. Three kids are a lot of work. (Laughter) (inaudible 00:22) going to be really good.

THERAPIST: Good.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. They're great.

THERAPIST: Good.

CLIENT: The whole family is just great.

THERAPIST: Oh, good.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Where do they live?

CLIENT: I don't know. Right off of Route 4. Is that right?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah,. Yeah. It's, like, a nice neighborhood. There's this, like, huge park with a pond. It's kind of like the woods. I don't know. They live right (inaudible 01:03).

THERAPIST: Yeah. (inaudible 01:05)

CLIENT: They live in a really nice area. Yeah.

THERAPIST: It's not too hard to get to.

CLIENT: No, it's good. Yeah, that's it's, like, 30 minutes on the bus, and so it was, you know, half an hour or so total to, like, get there and wait for it (ph) (inaudible 01:25). I think I might, on Tuesdays, end up either driving or seeing if apparently, like, if I take the train and then take the bus from there, that's sometimes faster. But the issue is that there's the bus that goes right there from here, it leaves at, like, 8:25.

THERAPIST: Right (ph).

CLIENT: [The timing isn't right] (ph). I think (inaudible 01:56).

THERAPIST: How long do you have to get there? Till 9:00? (inaudible 01:59)

CLIENT: Yeah. But she said actually, I don't know. I need to talk to Monica (sp?) because she because the little boy, the oldest boy, starts preschool at 9:00. So in the, like, 20 minute period there, Monica's (sp?) taking them to preschool anyway.

THERAPIST: Monica's (sp?) their mom?

CLIENT: Yeah, sorry. So yeah, I need to figure it out. So, like, yeah. I should get, like, 9:00. I should get there at 9:00, but she said that if I did, nobody might be there. So I don't know.

THERAPIST: Is the preschool in nearby?

CLIENT: Yeah. It's, like, a seven minute drive. So with kids, it's, like, 20 minutes, you know. "Okay, it's time to go."

THERAPIST: Yeah. Well, let me know if you're driving, because you don't want to go through that traffic at 8:40 in the morning.

CLIENT: Okay, thank you.

THERAPIST: Because it will take you till Wednesday to get there.

CLIENT: (Laughter) That's very useful information. Thanks.

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: Okay. I'll probably drive this Tuesday then. There's no I mean, yeah, because there's no traffic to get I mean, if I just follow the bus route, it's not -

THERAPIST: Oh, the bus doesn't hit traffic?

CLIENT: Not at all. It hits it on the way home, on the way back in the evening. But yeah, it was pretty it kind of goes through neighborhoods.

THERAPIST: I see. (inaudible 03:37) or something?

CLIENT: I don't know. (Laughter) It goes out past the parkway. Sorry. I don't know, as you can tell. I don't know the geography of this area very well. I know the parkway because that's where my doctor's office is. I tend to get on the bus and start reading, and then be like, "Oh, we're here." (Laughter)

THERAPIST: Okay, all right. Yeah, getting from here to there at that hour without hitting too much traffic is a big deal. So if the bus (inaudible 04:15).

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: You go through. It's probably, you know, kind of the most obvious way to go at that hour. I think the traffic will probably be a little nasty. Most of it will be coming the other way, into town (inaudible 04:25) out of town, where you go. But -

CLIENT: Yeah, I think -

THERAPIST: I bet it would still be pretty bad, especially because there's rotary, so, like, you get mixed up (inaudible 04:32).

CLIENT: Okay, okay. Thanks. Yeah, I think going the opposite direction from traffic is it's like no man's bus. Like, me and one other person, [a kid] (ph). So…

THERAPIST: And let me know if the timing doesn't work, and we'll figure something out.

CLIENT: Okay, thanks. (Pause) Yeah, I was I don't know. Monica (sp?), the mom, was kind of like, "Okay." Sharon (sp?) is the baby.

THERAPIST: Sharon (sp?)?

CLIENT: Yeah. And she's like, "You know, she's the sensitive one. She's the most fussy of any of my kids," and is (ph) kind of, like, setting me up, like, prepare me for her being really difficult. I don't know (pause) I feel like I don't remember. Like, I don't remember specific I feel like I've had more specific baby experience than I actually remember specifically, but I've she's, you know. She doesn't do the thing where she cries and there's nothing you can do about it. Like, when she's crying, you can fix it. And that's fantastic. You know, today she was fussier but, like, she, A, had a cold. And B, her parents were around anyway, and she's kind of when her mom's around, she wants to be with her mom. Yeah, it's been really fun. It's been exhausting, but (laughter) I feel like I'm trying to kind of cut myself a break. I'm like, "Okay, you're only working 30 hours a week." Like, it's not much. But it's a lot more than zero.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Oh, running after three kids all day is tiring. It's a lot.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. I play soccer with (inaudible 06:34). That's the seven-year-old, and he's, like, super into all kinds of sports. And he's, like, very tall and very athletic for a seven-year old. He's very yeah, he's very good. But so, like, playing soccer with him with, like, holding the baby. (Laughter) Oh. I feel good about that (ph).

THERAPIST: Good.

CLIENT: So Jason failed a class, which is, I think, the third class that he's failed. So he's not getting to walk, which, we found out last night at, like, 10:00. (inaudible 07:28) So…

THERAPIST: When is graduation?

CLIENT: Tomorrow. Or I think the graduation is Sunday, and we were going to leave tomorrow morning. So I don't know what we're going to do. I think (pause) I think we'll probably I will probably push for us to drive on up there. But (pause) there was kind of a it was kind of a (inaudible 07:57). I was really tired and (pause). So my dad called and said, you know, "Jason failed a class. He's not graduating." So I need to call him and talk to him about what we're going to do. But what if we all went to basically, what if we all went to Texas instead? Like, you know. I'm sorry. I'm not describing this well at all. It's just, like, "Hey, let's change all of your plans. Let's change all of our plans on the fly. That'll be fine, right?" And that's not easy for me.

And then he texted me this morning, as I was getting on the bus, to say he and Amanda are going to go up there anyway, and they're going to have a picnic with Jason and his friend, who just had a baby. And (pause) I think it's (pause) it's a little overwhelming, and I'm not sure why it's overwhelming. Or it's overwhelming and I sort of don't think it should be overwhelming. Trying to both not be overwhelmed and, you know. I recognize the strategy of pretending that I can handle everything until I absolutely fall apart hasn't really worked very well for me in the past. So trying to say, "Okay, this is a little much for me right now." (Laughter) But it's not that easy.

(Silence)

THERAPIST: (inaudible 10:26) but, like, were you especially worried or feeling guilty about not going in yesterday morning?

CLIENT: I felt more guilty about it than the situation warranted. Like, yeah, I felt I both, like, really didn't want to miss the appointment, and also felt bad about missing the appointment. And yeah, but I also (pause) told myself enough times that it really wasn't a big deal. That (ph) I sort of believed it. Thanks for asking.

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: James and I are having kind of an ongoing conversation about (pause) the way that he's feeling, which I think is good. I think, in some ways, I feel like as I get better and he cannot spend so much time worrying about me that his own hurt is kind of hitting him harder. And so, we, you know, talked about that on-and-off in the last couple of days. You know, he's, of course he said, one of the things that he said is that, like, he needs me to (pause) use the other people and the other sources of support in my life more as, you know, opposed to asking him for help with everything. Which makes sense to me. [And then] (ph), yeah. Which is fine, but I think he was he said that he's scared to ask me those things because he doesn't want me to (pause) now ask anybody for help, ever.

So, like, so last night, (pause) I was, like I was getting overwhelmed and sort of trying to just deal with it on my own. And he kind of deliberately said, "This is overwhelming for you. You can ask me for help with this. Like, this is, you know, this is a crisis. I'm good at that. That's fine." (Pause) It's funny. It's such a relief for me for him to tell me that he's angry with me, because I know that's angry with me. Or, like, I know that he's not okay and that's hurting. So that (pause), yeah, it's really helpful. At the same time, I (pause), you know, I think, "What could I have done differently in order not to hurt him in the way that I did?" And I'm not sure that I could have done anything. I told him that if (pause) that if I, you know. Even at the time, like, I knew that it hurt him when I had to be hospitalized. And I hated it, and I didn't want that to be what I was doing, but I couldn't do any better. (Pause) You know, and I wonder what I could have done better or could have done differently. [00:16:02]

It doesn't feel like what happened with where (pause) I know I could have made better choices. (Pause) Even though, I guess (pause) getting better means doing things like telling people that I'm getting overwhelmed, instead of trying to be fine with it until I completely collapse. And it means handling situations differently and changing the way I approach things. Like, (pause) just because I can do better from here on out doesn't mean I couldn't have fixed it then. (Silence)

CLIENT: He's really not okay. [I think] (ph) he's having a hard time. (Pause) [I don't know what I can do] (ph).

(Silence)

CLIENT: [I listen to him] (ph). (Pause) He's not going to apply for the job in Texas, I think. He said if it were it's just too fast for him. And if it were absolutely 100 percent his ideal job, then maybe, but he'd basically have to decide that this is what he wanted to do this week in order to get finished by the time the guy needs him (ph) to start (inaudible 19:02). (Pause) I mean, that's pretty good for me. That's (laughter) [a big relief] (ph) for me. (Laughter) Something for me not to worry about.

(Silence)

CLIENT: I feel like a lot has happened in the last two days. (Pause) Yeah.

(Silence)

CLIENT: It's funny. I still dread getting out of bed in the morning, or I have for the last couple of days. It's been the first, like, 15 minutes of getting up and taking a shower and, you know, then you, like, have to be somewhere. It's just awful. Then I go to work and forget about it and it's fine.

(Silence)

CLIENT: Yeah (ph). I told James that I didn't want to move, but that I would. I told him I'd feel a lot better about leaving in six months than in three months. [00:21:51]

(Silence)

CLIENT: I don't want to go to tomorrow, but I also want to be a member of my family. (Pause) I feel like I'm been kind of absentee.

(Silence)

CLIENT: I have to do that after this. I have to go call my dad. Talk to James, and then call my dad and figure out what we're doing. And I think it would have been easier for everyone else if I'd done it, like, this morning, but I had to go to work this morning.

THERAPIST: You're at work on Fridays?

CLIENT: I'm not only this Friday.

THERAPIST: Oh, okay.

CLIENT: Monica (sp?) was there this week. She doesn't start working till next week. She wanted me to come and, like, get used to people, so they'll get used to me. And so, yeah, I'll be Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. Yeah, so my dad texted me at some point during the day, asking me if we wanted him to keep the room that he reserved for James and I in the dorms (ph), and I don't know. I think they're going to camp. I don't know. I (ph) wanted to drive. (Laughter) (Pause) I'm just tired. I've been trying to, like it's funny. I've been, like, getting home, being (ph) like, "Okay, I have, like, five hours before I go to bed. What is the most restful thing I can do?" (Laughter) So last night, I made a cake. (Laughter) I don't know if that was the most restful thing (inaudible 24:51).

(Silence)

CLIENT: I started (ph), like, getting teary, but I think I'm tired. I'll adjust. What? (ph) (Laughter)

(Silence)

THERAPIST: I guess I was smiling at the sort of quick chin-up (inaudible 25:51). (Pause) I mean, I think you (pause) listed a bunch of demands (inaudible 26:08) but, you know, also to do with James, you know, and the way things are shifting [sort of] (ph). And I imagine also not being here the last couple of days, in a way.

CLIENT: Sort of holding my breath to see whether things are the same or not.

(Silence)

THERAPIST: I suspect it feels (inaudible 27:15) like a constraint. You wanted to come in yesterday. [It's sort of a] (ph) constraint not to be. I mean, however that turns out, we'll see. But I imagine it's sort of you [just have to be] (ph) feeling burdened (inaudible 27:44).

CLIENT: I don't know.

THERAPIST: (inaudible 27:51)

CLIENT: I think what I'm most afraid of is that's it's going to fall apart. Yeah. That's sort of almost what I'm most afraid of. Yeah (ph). It's sort of like it's the last day (ph) when you sign up for classes and you take one more classes than you really should, just because it's a really good class. And you say, "This is going to be a really good semester, if I can handle it." Mostly, I could. Sometimes I couldn't. (Pause) Yeah, so (pause) I think that's what I'm worried about (inaudible 29:10) and all the things (inaudible 29:13). (Laughter) [And I] (ph) (pause) I'm not sure whether the best way to deal with that fear is to continue to tell myself that it's going to be fine and I should just not think about it very much. But that's what I know, which I sort of feel like if that's what I know, maybe I should take a cue that that's not actually the best way to handle it. (Laughter)

THERAPIST: (inaudible 30:03)

CLIENT: Well, I don't feel like I both (ph) have great trust in my problem-solving methods and know that that trust is really wholly unfounded. (Laughter) It's sort of like when I was interviewing for jobs, I wanted to tell people that I was reliable. And initially, I had to stop and say, "No. You used to be reliable. In the last year or so, like, you have not been reliable. Like, it's not something you can say about yourself right now. Give it another year, and then maybe." You know, contentious, yes. Reliable, depends (ph).

(Silence)

CLIENT: I don't know what I'm going to tell her. She asked me how the graduation was last week. Did I tell you this? And it turned out she thought I needed to miss last week as well. There was a -

THERAPIST: Oh, that's the tutoring ?

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. Sorry. I ended up not going in last week. She, you know, arranged a sub, and I thought that that was because they couldn't meet, and she thought it was because I couldn't meet.

THERAPIST: I see. Yeah. No, she made a whole fuss, right?

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, I already said I wasn't coming in tomorrow, and now Jason's not actually graduating. I don't really know what I'm going to say about that. Maybe I'll [just hide] (ph). (Laughter) [I don't know] (ph). I hope it's okay. [00:32:54]

THERAPIST: Well, I guess you're listing out some things that feel like they're too much. I mean, one is maybe dealing with her. Another is sort of, in a way, deciding what to do about this weekend. And another is, you're worried about coming here two times a week. Like, (pause) (inaudible 33:20) feel like too much to think about right now.

CLIENT: Yeah. The thing with deciding what to do tomorrow is the one that is really, like, I start getting panicky when I think about it. I don't know why. But I'm letting down my family. Yeah. The rest is sort of, like, background. I know it'll be okay eventually. I know I'll deal with it when I get to it. I'm not sure how, but it's not that big of a deal. And this also is not that big of a deal (inaudible 34:11).

(Silence)

CLIENT: Yeah, (inaudible 34:34) see you three times a week. Seeing you three times a week feels like (pause) it feels like the sort of problem I know I don't know what the solution is. I don't know how it's going to play out. I don't know what the solution is going to be. I don't know how I'm going to react to it. But I'm pretty confident I'll figure it out. Like, I is that right? I don't believe that's right. Sounds okay right now, anyway. (Pause) As I think about I don't know. I think about conflict. [The fact is] (ph), I can't do it. It's one of those (pause) it's sort of like talking to you about money. I both feel like I absolutely can't do this, and I absolutely have to do this.

THERAPIST: You're really stuck.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And that's (inaudible 35:56).

CLIENT: Yeah.

(Silence)

THERAPIST: I imagine it's probably hard to talk about because you (inaudible 36:21) is kind of, like, tell you what to do about it.

CLIENT: I wish somebody would tell me what to do about it. (Laughter) I don't know. (Laughter) You know, I really just want James to express a strong preference, so that I can just say, "Okay, we'll do that." But I don't think he will. (Pause) I guess I feel like (pause) maybe it's feeling like, if we go, it'll be exhausting. And we don't even know if the car is working or working right. And (pause) weird, because I don't know if [my mom] (ph) will be there or not (inaudible 37:44) and (pause) I'm just dreading it. But if we don't go, you know, I'll feel so guilty. I don't (pause) but I don't even know if that's so much as just feeling overwhelmed by having to make a decision quickly.

THERAPIST: I wondered if you also felt, if you didn't go, I mean, guilty (inaudible 38:33) but also (pause) (inaudible 38:38) but, like, incompetent or (inaudible 38:42). [I guess you should be able to] (ph).

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Like this is a test of your (inaudible 39:03).

CLIENT: Yeah. (Pause) Yeah. This is the sort of trip that, I don't know, five years ago, I would have made on the spur of the moment, and it would have been fine. And it would seem perfectly reasonable to be deciding one day what we were doing the next morning, and then do that. And yeah, I'm just not that person anymore.

(Silence)

CLIENT: You know, but if we hadn't I mean, if this situation hadn't come up and I wasn't, you know, trying to change plans on the fly, I'm sure I would be sitting here, talking about being stressed out about going at all. That's a huge part of it, is I don't want to go. (Laughter) I feel really badly about that. (Pause) Yeah.

(Silence)

CLIENT: Yeah, I feel really bad about that.

(Silence)

CLIENT: I don't know why. I don't know why I don't want to go.

(Silence)

CLIENT: I'm really tired.

THERAPIST: (inaudible 43:25) stop.

CLIENT: Okay, thank you.

THERAPIST: Sure (ph). (inaudible 43:28)

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