TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: There's something wrong with the heat there, because it's usually pretty good. (pause)

CLIENT: Okay. Get that (inaudible at 00:00:28). Oh, thank you.

THERAPIST: Thank you.

CLIENT: So it's warm in here and we can hear. (pause) Hello.

THERAPIST: Hi.

CLIENT: I had a hard week. Just anxious and frustration tolerance very low, and feeling a little down. I'm sure this has something to do with what we talked about. [00:01:22]

THERAPIST: What comes to mind? I'm just going to turn it off so it's easier to hear.

CLIENT: I don't know. Nothing in particular. I mean, I'm thinking a lot about my mother. It's funny, I said to Harold, "So 62 years old when I wasn't and how many times in therapy, and here I am talking about my mother." (laughter) And it's like, does it really ever end? Can you go to therapy until you're 90 and still have to deal with your mother?

THERAPIST: Well, I mean, I guess one answer to that is yes because you're not only dealing with your mother out there, you're dealing with your mother in here.

CLIENT: But I guess my question is what I mean I'm here, and I want to keep coming, but what makes it better? Just getting in touch with it? I mean, I guess I'm just not sure what [00:02:28]

THERAPIST: Yeah. I mean, I think that's a piece of it. I think that a piece and related to that is putting some pieces together that maybe are scattered at the moment, and providing some context and meaning for what you're feeling, rather than to just having anxious symptoms over here, intimacy issues over here, things feel pretty scattered, and there's no context for that. And I think context really moves things along. I don't think it's just simply about understanding, but I think people really feel better.

CLIENT: Okay. (laughter) I'll take your word for it.

THERAPIST: Yeah? Have you felt that some of your other therapy experiences have been helpful?

CLIENT: Yes. It's interesting because sorry, I should have turned that off. Let me turn it off. Guess who it is.

THERAPIST: Your mother?

CLIENT: (laughter) [00:03:39]

THERAPIST: If I had a nickel for every time that happened -

CLIENT: That is so funny.

THERAPIST: I would have many nickels.

CLIENT: (laughter) That's hystMelaniel.

THERAPIST: People's mothers know when they're in their therapy session. I'm telling you.

CLIENT: That is very funny.

THERAPIST: There's too many incidents of that to be simply coincidence.

CLIENT: Well, I know there's also I thought I turned it off. She's calling me again. Let me just make sure it's not an emergency. Hello? Hello? Hi. Oh. Can I call you back? Yeah. Okay, so she was discharged. I'll call Barbara tonight. All right. Thanks, Mom. Bye.

THERAPIST: Well, I thought what we were just talking about is you can never turn off your mother.

CLIENT: Turning her off now.

THERAPIST: But there's always voice-mail. [00:04:50]

CLIENT: (laughter) Right. Also, I was just going to say my mother's kind of spiritual in a lot of ways, and so I wouldn't be surprised if she had some sense of this, but that's not why she called. So one of the things I was thinking of that was interesting was when I first started therapy, when I first went, it was my father I was talking about, never even dealt much with my mother. And I remember my older sister was like, she's the one who had really hostile, angry, very verbal about her feelings about my mother, and I remember saying, "Wait a minute. I don't know. I feel it's not Mom that I it's Dad." I think that's because I had some kind of a relationship with him. And my sister also confirmed that my mother had very serious postpartum depression after I was born. She doesn't particularly remember either, but just that she knows that that's when she had her worst. (pause) So I guess maybe I never really did deal with my mother. [00:06:17]

THERAPIST: Well, maybe having more intimacy with Harold would how do I put it would put you in contact with those feelings in a way that might be very painful.

CLIENT: Yep, that's definitely possible. (pause) So what can I do about that?

THERAPIST: Are you a general, kind of like an action plan kind of person?

CLIENT: (laughter) No. I don't know. Not necessarily. (pause)

THERAPIST: We can talk about all the reasons you don't want to talk about your mother. [00:07:54]

CLIENT: I'll talk about my mother. I just don't know what to talk about because I don't I mean I know the things I can talk about, how uncomfortable it is for me to buy her a Mother's Day card. I clearly don't feel the emotion. I love her and I'll be sad when she passes on, and very sad, but I don't have not aware or in touch with the emotional part.

THERAPIST: What form might that sadness take? The sadness of her passing on? [00:08:36]

CLIENT: (pause) I don't know. It's also interesting, I know that when my father died, I was upset, emotional about it, but I hear other people when something like that happens, they're devastated, and I just didn't have that reaction. I think actually the most upset I've been about losing somebody was when my friend Peter passed away. I think I was really in touch with sadness more than I mean I know I was at the time of the funeral, and I was sad coming into the house without him there, but it didn't seem like how other people might talk about their parents passing on. [00:10:03]

THERAPIST: Who was your friend Peter?

CLIENT: And I wasn't really I don't want to say I wasn't that close to Peter because I've known Peter since I was in college, and we were both I met him because when I went away to school, I met some friends of his at school, and so that's how I got to know him. Then I became friendly with his sister who's younger than him, and then she and I really became really good friends and we still are, but Peter was always somebody in my life. I knew him since high school, and he lived in D.C. and I lived in D.C. We kept in touch over the years. Now, we didn't have an ongoing relationship, but we'd meet once a year and go out, just dinner or something. And I guess it was just the knowing him so long, and it was just very sad. (pause)

THERAPIST: What was it like when your father died? [00:11:37]

CLIENT: Again, it's the disassociation, and I can't I know I was sad. I know I was upset. I know I cried. But I guess I don't now I think about my father, I don't really in touch with feelings. I guess I've just done a really good job of burying my feelings I guess.

THERAPIST: Well, I'm sure in many ways it served you well.

CLIENT: Yes. I did it to get through the and I feel like I was successful and not unhappy with anything I did in my life. I did some really good things, so I guess that was my defense to get through. [00:13:04]

THERAPIST: You had said Harold is depressed. Do you feel he's also sad?

CLIENT: Um-hm. Yep. And I also feel like my detachment sometimes makes him feel even sadder. Not that I don't think that he plays some role, but I think he's more in touch with that than I am emotionally. And I worry a little bit about my daughter, Dana, because I see there's somewhat we have a lot, so much alike, and I see some of that in her and it worries me.

THERAPIST: You've mentioned that before. What about it worries you? [00:14:31]

CLIENT: I don't want her to go through this feeling, having to struggle to be able to come to grips with that you don't feel anything. And I can see it. I can see at times, just her interactions and she does a lot of the same behaviors. I mean, I know some of this is totally normal with mothers and daughters, but she's very short. She gets very frustrated with me. Right away, her mood will change if I say something that was totally harmless, but she just and I see that she's had well, all her relationships have been not with guys who really appreciated her, and who really touched her emotionally because they didn't have it either. And she's always has an issue with Melanie's boyfriends because Melanie's just the opposite. Melanie has always got these boyfriends that buy her flowers, and so, and I can see that that bothers her. I mean, it bothers her not in the way it should, which is being in touch with that's what she would like, but more like she doesn't know. I don't think she knows why it bothers her. (pause) [00:16:20]

It was a very I guess I feel like, well, I know that I didn't get what I needed from my parents, but I just feel like she I mean, I thought she did, and maybe totally different than how my parents were completely, except for me. I know I have an issue, but as much as I could, so I guess somewhere along the line, maybe that has affected her, which I feel sad about. (pause) [00:17:22]

She's also very just low tolerance for stress. (pause) I think the way she deals with her emotions or not feeling or wanting to feel is to do her she's spinning, teaches spinning, does yoga. She's kind of fanatical almost about her exercise, and her eating. (pause) I just like her to kind of loosen up a little bit. More comfortable I mean, not because she's totally comfortable with herself, that's not it. [00:18:29]

THERAPIST: That's funny. In some ways, that's how you describe Harold, or how he used to be, kind of meaning to expend a lot of energy.

CLIENT: Yes, she does have that part of him, I think. She's just, I don't know. She's a little rigid. Just not and I don't, that's where I'm not. I mean, I feel like I can go with the flow, and things don't have to be a certain way. But with her, if we're going out to eat, if there's a wait, she starts to freak out because she's hungry, and she has to eat. Or the other night, she called me and said she had a long day, she wasn't getting home until about 7:00, and she wanted to know what I was doing, that she might stop by for dinner. [00:19:41]

I said, "That's great." I was actually planning, I was going to make chicken and I had some things planned, and she said, "Oh, I'd love to have shrimp," because her roommate can't eat shrimp, that she's allergic. She can't even have it in the house, so she said, "Would you go?" It's a little girly voice, "Would you go and get shrimp for us, and I'll cook shrimp when I get over?" And the last thing I wanted to do was go home I had to go home first, walk the dog because Harold was working, and then go out to buy shrimp. It just wasn't something I wanted to do when I had food in the house, so I just said, "Dana, I'm really tired," and I have had a hard week. I have really had a hard week. And she got all hot off the collar and just said, "Thanks, never mind." I said, "Well, I have food. We can have chicken." "I just had chicken yesterday." [00:20:37]

It's like (laughter) I don't know. And she came over last night, she kind of saw it that way. I didn't really try to say anything more about it, but she said, "I just felt like I had a really hard week, and I was tired. And it would just have been nice if you would've done that for me," and I'm thinking to myself, yeah, and would she do it the other way around, and the answer is no. Whenever we ask her to do something that's out of her way, she'll end up doing it, but not and I guess that is somewhat like me. Harold says that about me, like if I don't want Harold to say no but don't do it, he'll be (laughter) [00:21:30]

And I guess the reason I worry and think about her more is just because I do think a lot of those issues she gets from me. I mean just the short fuse, and I've gotten a lot better. I mean, I'm sure she'll get a lot better over the years. (pause) I remember we had an incident in California. I don't know if I even brought this up, but we had a girls' weekend in California where we all go, my two girls, and my two sisters, and my niece. We try to do it once a year if we can. And a couple of years ago when we went, my mother ended up having to be in the hospital because she had something wrong with her leg. And it was very difficult time. [00:23:01]

She was in excruciating pain, so they had figured it it ended up it wasn't anything serious, but she was in excruciating pain, and the hospital I hate dealing with hospitals. And so at one point, I said something and then Dana got upset saying, I don't know. I think it was because she said we were complaining so much, and giving the hospital a hard time, and wasn't allowing them to just hang out with grandma and just be in the room with her because at one point, I think we told them to leave the room for a minute because we were talking to the nurse about something. I don't know. And I was getting pissed off, and definitely being aggressive with the hospital, which you have to be because if you don't, then you don't get what you need. And she said something, and I just started crying. I was just so emotional, I was just it was difficult, and I started crying, and I can see she couldn't let go and just say, "Oh, Mom, I'm sorry." She got more adamant, and it was then this battle. I'm crying and she's not able to and that's so much I see that in so much a part of how I am, and it just upsets me. I don't want her to be like that. And Melanie can come over and just give me a big hug and say, "Mom, I'm sorry (inaudible at (00:24:47)." Dana just can't do that.

THERAPIST: So where does Melanie get that from?

CLIENT: I don't know. Melanie's a lot more like Harold in the personality-wise as far as I don't know, to me, it's hard to say. I mean, Dana's got that excessive need to deal with life by doing something all the time, and that's not all me. I mean, some of that is Harold, so I don't know who's from what, but Melanie and Dana are just totally, totally different. Melanie's just very and Dana's very out there with her it's weird because she's out there with her feelings. I know when she's upset. I know she'll talk to me. She'll tell me what's going on, and like in her relationship with Brandon, when she was upset, she would come to us and talk with us. And Melanie is you really wouldn't know half the time what was going on, but she's completely does just blips through life, does everything. Does it all great and perfect, and you don't know what you just don't know if there's any struggle or if she just kind of does it. [00:26:24]

And also Dana was colicky, and as a baby, she was like she is now. She couldn't stand still, and be running all over. We'd go to the beach and everybody would be sitting there, and the kids would be shoveling the sand, and Dana would be running around the beach, and Melanie was just the opposite. She was just so mellow. We could take her anywhere. We could do anything. It was just easy, easy, easy. (pause) It's interesting because I see Dana as being more like me, and Melanie did what Melanie's done is more like what me, the fact that she's just picked up and left, and found herself a job, and found herself an apartment, and she's living in San Francisco.

THERAPIST: She left? [00:27:17]

CLIENT: Yeah. She left. Everything worked out perfect. She got a job before she left through she interviewed for two jobs. She got offered both jobs, and the interviews were both through Skype and phone. She left, started to look at apartments but decided she'd wait until she got out there, and they got out there on a Thursday. By Sunday, she had an apartment and it's exactly what she was looking for. She didn't bring anything with her, just her clothes, so it's furnished. It's with a roommate, but the room that she has has a bed. It has everything in it, so it's just everything worked out perfectly. She started her job yesterday.

THERAPIST: Does that feel like not you?

CLIENT: No, that feels like me.

THERAPIST: Um-hm. Easygoing in that particular way?

CLIENT: Yes, in that way. But not any other way. Yeah, I did a lot of that I mean, I left home as soon as I graduated college, and traveled, and did all kinds of stuff, and I remember people back home would say, "You're so lucky, and I just don't know how you got out of here. You went somewhere." I say, "Well, why can't you?" I mean, to me, it was just something I did, and I think part of that is that I wasn't connecting to my family, so it was easy for me to just get up and go because I was okay by myself. And if anything, I wanted to get away from my family. [00:29:07]

THERAPIST: So it afforded you feeling not attached to them, afforded you freedom.

CLIENT: Yes. Definitely.

THERAPIST: Where are you from?

CLIENT: Pennsylvania. Flourtown.

THERAPIST: Is that central? South?

CLIENT: It's western. It's not far from it's south. It's not far from Philly.

THERAPIST: Um-hm. D.C.'s a different kind of place.

CLIENT: Um-hm. Yeah, I mean, I do surprise myself when I think back on things that I've done, and it's interesting, but I never equated it before with that I was able to do those things because I was self I don't know what the word is I wasn't connected. I wasn't when I was 30 I think I was 30 I quit my job and went off on a trip by myself, which I never would've believed I would've ever done, and I still can't believe I did it, but I did it. [00:30:52]

THERAPIST: Where did you go?

CLIENT: I started out in Brazil. I didn't speak Portuguese because I took German my whole life, which I couldn't speak anyway, so I started out in Brazil. My plan was to go and join one of the Portuguese schools, and they put you up with a family, and you stay for as long as you want. So I just got on a plane, and got on a bus, and ended up there at 10:00 at night. And then I stayed there with a family for a month, and then I met this guy who was also going to school there, and he had a car. And we decided to travel south together, so it was me and Lloyd. [00:31:48]

Lloyd had this from Colorado had this big car with his it had a rack in the back with all his shirts hanging, and I had my backpack. (laughter) So we were kind of an odd couple. And we got to Brasilia and we were hungry, and so we stopped into the square, and got out of the car to get something to eat. And I looked at the car with all his shirts back there and my backpack was I was leaving my backpack, and I said, "Do you think it's a really good idea" I mean, I read all this stuff about how you have to be really careful, don't ever leave and he goes, "Oh, yeah, we're only going to be gone a minute." So we went, came back and everything was gone. Everything. And what I had on me was sandals, I wasn't wearing a bra, half my money, the other half was in my backpack, and everything that I had so carefully chosen for the trip was just gone. But I ended up having the most amazing experience. [00:32:58]

THERAPIST: What'd you do?

CLIENT: Well, I called American Express, and I had to deal with that. I had Lloyd spoke Portuguese a lot better than I did fortunately. He was a better student than I was, so he helped me just get through the going to the police, and getting to the market. I bought this canvas thing to wear on my back. I bought a bra, some shirts, and just had the bare minimum, and decided oh, when we were sitting in the center of town, and we heard the people next to us talking. This guy was talking, we couldn't tell if he said he was from D.C. or Denver, and Lloyd was from Denver and I was from D.C. So and this was when I had just I had got all my stuff. I really was ready to move on. I didn't know exactly what I was going to do, and I had to go to get my travelers checks in Colombia, so I knew that I was going to head towards Colombia. So he said he was from D.C., and then we started talking, and he was working for the paper, and writing stories. And he was walking from where did he start from Colorado to Chile. [00:34:33]

THERAPIST: Oh, that's a long walk.

CLIENT: So we just got to talking, and he told us we didn't like the place we were staying, so he told us of a place he was staying a little bit outside of town, and so we said oh, great, we're going to he said that he was leaving, and we said, "Great. We're going to go stay there." So we did some stuff, got to the place, and I had a note "Jeff was looking for you." And I went Jeff? He just told us he was leaving and walking. Make a long story short, Jeff came back and wanted me to walk with him (chuckle) so I did for five days. And he wrote this great story and it was just cool. [00:35:25]

It was actually we the reason I had left my job was political stuff, and he managed to bring in my father, my political stuff with my job. He started out with her father always told her not to swap. (laughter) But here she was, all her things had just been stolen, so it was fun. I still can't believe I did it. It was kind of crazy. And then I left Jeff after five days, hopped on a bus, went to Colombia, and then just met people along the way, and ended up in Venezuela, was the last place I ended up. And it was just amazing.

I was saying to Harold the other day that the most wonderful thing about traveling like that is no responsibility. You don't have to fill out any forms or anything. You don't have to pay bills. You don't have to you just get up and do whatever you want to do. To have that for a long like day after day after day, you just really get to a different place. It was great. It was wonderful. (pause) I'd love to do it again. [00:36:53]

THERAPIST: Do you and Harold have travel plans in retirement?

CLIENT: Retirement. I'll never be able to retire, and -

THERAPIST: Never ever?

CLIENT: I don't know. I don't know seriously. We'll see. I mean, I guess after this year when we've been in the new house in our when Harold starts getting his Medicare because we're spending a lot right now on health insurance from his goes to the doctor from his pension. And then when I go, when I get Medicare, and then when we go get Social Security, I just feel like we need a couple of years to just see how it all pans out, and then figure it out from there. But I don't have any retirement. I don't have any 401k, so I really only have Social Security, and then I get three-quarters of Harold's retirement if anything happens to him.

THERAPIST: Were you not working or were you just not putting it away? [00:38:02]

CLIENT: I was not putting it away. I was a child of the '60s, have fun, don't think about the future. And I did have my fun. I was able to do a lot of things that other people didn't do, so I do appreciate that I did have that experience on that end. Would I like it again on this end? Yeah, very much. But we'll see. And we did plan, when we sold the house, I just said to Harold, who's kind of a spender which is also different than me, "I'd rather save the money and do things," and he just spends. And I said, "My passion is travel," and the only thing we've done really is we went to Jamaica before the kids were born. We went to Spain when the kids were in camp one summer, and that's pretty much it other than just going far to visit parents and things like that. So I said, "My passion is travel. We haven't done anything. We're taking $10,000 from the sale of the house, and we're putting it aside and we're going somewhere," so we're actually going to Greece in June. I'm excited. [00:39:26]

THERAPIST: I went to Greece in the last couple of years.

CLIENT: You have?

THERAPIST: Uh-huh.

CLIENT: I love I've been there a long time ago. I love it. I just think it's the most beautiful people who are so friendly. Where did you stay?

THERAPIST: I was mostly in Athens, but I did day trips to was it Crete?

CLIENT: Yeah, I was staying in Crete.

THERAPIST: Oh, it's beautiful there. Oh, my god.

CLIENT: I know. We have a villa. We rented a villa.

THERAPIST: Oh, my god, it is beautiful there, and it's actually very close to Athens.

CLIENT: Yeah, it's like 45 minutes.

THERAPIST: Yeah, it's not oh, it's beautiful there.

CLIENT: Yeah, I can't I'm really excited. We were supposed to do it with we picked the perfect people we'd love to do it with. They're friends of ours that have a they've been coaching it. They've sold their house 12 years ago, 14 years ago, and for 7 years, they were going to go around in their what's it called RV, and they've still been doing it 14 anyway. We've done a little we went up to Canada with them for ten days at one point. They're the greatest people to travel with. They're so laidback, and we really just get along great. And they were up for it, so I was so excited. [00:40:37]

We planned it. We looked at I researched it, found the villa. We'd eat at the villa. And a week after I paid the deposit, Ashley called me and said, "I have good news and bad news." Okay, I knew right away. The good news is Jade is pregnant that's their daughter. The bad news is she's due the last week in June. So we just decided to keep the villa. It was a really it's not expensive either. I mean, it's amazing. So it'll be more than we thought we would spend, but still not outrageous. And so then we started looking, inviting people. Do you want to go? Do you want to go? Nobody's going. So actually Dana is going. Dana and a friend are definitely coming. And we've just told anybody else if you want to come by, we have this beautiful villa. It sleeps nine. (laughter) [00:41:28]

THERAPIST: Wow.

CLIENT: Harold said, "Well, we'll just have to meet people there and invite them over." (laughter)

THERAPIST: Sounds like a plan.

CLIENT: Yeah, so I'm excited. We're going to rent a car. Very much looking forward to it, but -

THERAPIST: How long will you be gone for?

CLIENT: Two weeks.

THERAPIST: Nice.

CLIENT: Not long enough, but (laughter) How long did you go for?

THERAPIST: I think just a little over a week, not very long.

CLIENT: What time of year were you there?

THERAPIST: March. It was in March. It's pretty mild, though.

CLIENT: Um-hm. I think it's much warmer in June and July.

THERAPIST: Yeah. I would've liked to go up north.

CLIENT: You know, trying to decide where to go is difficult because there's north -

THERAPIST: The south, beaches.

CLIENT: And it's not a big country, but two weeks, you can't do everything, and so I was really torn between finding something in the north and finally, this just looked so great, and it was right on the coast.

THERAPIST: It's beautiful there. How far is it to up north? Is it quite a drive?

CLIENT: It is. I think the only way we could really do it is if we spent a night somewhere else on the way, which we could possibly do. But it's not far from there. It's a three or four hour drive. [00:42:51]

THERAPIST: Wow, that's not far.

CLIENT: Yeah, so we can do that. And it is a great location because you can really cover a -

THERAPIST: (crosstalk).

CLIENT: A big radius.

THERAPIST: Just in the hills.

CLIENT: Yeah. Wineries.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I remember the fishing villages is what I loved when I was there.

THERAPIST: I took a Jewish walking tour -

CLIENT: Oh, really?

THERAPIST: Of Greece. And the guy was from the U.S., and I think he married a Greek woman, and he was so excited because he offered up different tours. No one every requested this tour. He was extremely excited to I think he would've had us there I think it was supposed to be a two-hour tour. Four hours later, he wanted to keep going.

CLIENT: So what made you pick Greece?

THERAPIST: It was for my dad's birthday. He wanted to go.

CLIENT: Oh, okay. Yeah. It's some place that I had been years ago. I mean, I haven't been to Europe, except Spain, in ages, but actually that's not true. We went to Jordan two years ago because my boss actually paid for us to go. [00:43:58]

THERAPIST: Wow.

CLIENT: His daughter was getting married, and he flew us over there.

THERAPIST: Wow.

CLIENT: He paid for he got us an apartment, took us out to eat, paying for everything.

THERAPIST: Wow.

CLIENT: And then on top of that, got us his cousin for two days, who was a tour guide, so yeah, it was great.

THERAPIST: Wow. That's quite a -

CLIENT: It was wonderful.

THERAPIST: That's quite an employment bonus.

CLIENT: Yes, it was very nice. But if I could retire now and just flit around, I'd be very happy. People say, "What would you do?" Oh, not worry for one second about what I would do.

THERAPIST: Do you feel that lack of freedom, loss of freedom? [00:44:52]

CLIENT: Like I said, I feel like I had that freedom. I've done so many things, I can't really complain. I did that nine-month trip. I went to Europe twice before that. I went cross country when I graduated from college and lived out in California for a while. I mean I feel like I've had that, so I'm not feeling like, oh, I haven't been able to do anything with my life, but I'd love it if I had money, and I could just go visit people, and travel. To me, that would be the ideal thing to do in retirement.

THERAPIST: Do you feel constrained by Harold's physical ailments?

CLIENT: No, because I'll go with he's fine with me doing anything I want to do. So if I want to do something and he doesn't I mean, it will be a little constraining, but Harold will bear the pain and not say anything so that we can appreciate Greece. He'll go on hike I mean, that's just who he is. So no, I don't really feel it's Harold. I really feel it's money. We're supposed to have money because we were one of the Johnson victims.

THERAPIST: Really? [00:46:35]

CLIENT: Well, my mother, because my father was just one of those self-made, came from Poland, couldn't speak English, just started his own business, became very successful, and very into being religious. And somebody turned him on to got him into the Johnson when it first start, I mean years and years and years ago, and he was like Arnold. Arnold could do no wrong, and he totally trusted it, and he wanted everybody to put their money in there because he was making good money. And my cousin, who's in finance, told him, "Please, nobody really understands how he does it. Please don't put all your money in there. Just give me some money to invest for you," and my father did it just because my cousin bugged him. But he had all his money in Johnson at the end, except for what he gave my cousin. [00:47:35]

So he was already passed on when it happened. Yeah, it was very traumatic at first for my mother, what my mother was going to do. She's just, again, she's just amazing. She just had such a great attitude. She was like, whatever, I'll do whatever. It'll all work out somehow. And it ended up that the money that my cousin had is what saved her, so it's not a lot, but it's enough for her to live a simple lifestyle.

THERAPIST: You know, I think we're going to on that note, we're going to need to stop.

CLIENT: So I would've had at least a million dollars.

THERAPIST: Or more.

CLIENT: All right.

THERAPIST: Okay, I'll see you next week.

CLIENT: Next week.

THERAPIST: Okay, take care. [00:48:32]

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