TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:
THERAPIST: Hi! My schedule is changing a bit. I'm teaching a class that ends in a week or so. Are you able to come a little bit earlier, like if we started at 5:20 or so, would you be able to do that?
CLIENT: Um, I could try, yes.
THERAPIST: Okay, that would be a huge help. I mean, but you know, if you can't, obviously, I respect your schedule.
CLIENT: I'm usually here earlier, anyway.
THERAPIST: Yeah. I noticed that. So it will probably be like, starting in a couple of weeks, like the end of February.
CLIENT: Okay, just let me know.
THERAPIST: Okay, that would be great.
CLIENT: It's cold in here!
THERAPIST: Is it cold? I can turn up the... actually, let me put on the space heater; it heats up even faster.
CLIENT: Oh boy! So... I had a great vacation! Well, it was no vacation, it was work and part fun and visiting (ph Melanie) in San Fran I can't remember the last time I was gone for a week. It just felt like a month; it was really nice. And I came, and well, I know I got in touch with a lot of stuff while I was away. [00:01:25]
I just really felt like I didn't want to come back to work. I just love... you know, I'm a free spirit at heart; I just love travelling, going places, and seeing people. So, I just really felt like, "Oh, God; I have to figure out some way to not have to work!" (chuckles). But I know that's not going to happen.
So when I came back, I had a hard time yesterday. I came back Sunday; I had a hard time Sunday, (ph blessed/rest 00:01:52) yesterday. And today I feel better, but... I think also what I realized is that Harold is a lot worse than I think I've been admitting to myself. I just have to keep working on accepting what's happening to him; kind of like it's just me or I have to take major responsibility for pretty much everything. It's hard. Then I get angry, and I don't, I just, I guess what I want to figure out is, it is what it is; this is what it is; it's not going to get better, and how I deal with my feelings about, that I can't do anything about... a decent relationship. That's kind of what I'm struggling with right now. [00:02:50]
THERAPIST: When you say "worse," do you mean psychologically, physically...
CLIENT: Yeah, I mean everything. Both psychologically and physically. He doesn't, he's just out of it. He doesn't... He's... For example, I come home, I got in at 5:00 and he came home right after me, he had gone food shopping and he said he took something out for dinner. And I said, "Yeah, we're on a different time schedule. I'm probably not going to be hungry until 8:00 or so; I'm not very hungry now.
We were upstairs, talking, and all of a sudden, we heard something downstairs; this is about 6:00. And I said, "Somebody's down there." He goes, "Who would be down there?" And then I hear my daughter (ph Dana) say, "So is anybody coming down?" And he says, "Oh yeah! (ph Dana) said she was coming over." Well basically she told him two hours before that that she was going to come over and make dinner for us! And he, you know, he didn't have any recollection of it until she was there! That just... I don't know, it just freaks me out. [00:04:01]
And then... there are something every day. Today, he left without his wallet... I don't know. He's just not all there. And the pain; he's constantly making noises and... I don't know, it's just hard. (pause)
Like how he was supposed to take care of his Medicare, because he comes of age in March. Everybody told us, you know, sign up at least three months ahead of time, don't wait until the last minute. So for three months, I've been reminding him. He's not working every day, you know (inaudible at 00:04:51), printed out the address, the hours... "Go sign up for Medicare." So he finally (ph managed it, and he want me to take note). It's now February, if you don't sign up soon, you're not going to get it in time. So he managed to get himself over there yesterday at 3:00. I mean, the whole day! And called me, when I called him, he said the office had just closed. [00:05:20]
I'm like, you know, he just can't seem to get himself to do anything in the morning. He was sick, he gets sick all the time. It does sound like he's got something, but... I don't know! It's just... I don't want to take it out on him, but I get so... frustrated! (chuckles) It comes out, I know it comes out in anger. (pause 00:05:48-00:06:05) And I can't talk, I can't have this conversation with him because he would get really upset.
THERAPIST: Does he get upset because he would recognize it's true?
CLIENT: I don't know; he would just (inaudible at 00:06:25), you know. Like ever since he was in (inaudible); I mean, he even made comments like, when I said I didn't want to come back to what he was, he goes, "Yeah, I probably wouldn't come back to you." I mean, he knows. He doesn't know the extent because he won't let himself, because then he would feel... you know, the last thing he would want to do is feel like he's not... perfectly capable of taking care of himself, and not feeling, you know (ph virile), you know. (pause 00:06:55-00:07:47) (sniffling/blowing nose)
I think we're so overwhelmed, just every kind of, in the nitty gritty of life, you know, getting a man, having to fill this out, having to fill that out, getting something for the insurance company, it's an audit, you have to get your birth certificate, you have to get this, you have to f****. I just don't want to do anything! (crying)
I feel much better today, but that's how I've felt some days. (pause 00:08:15-00:08:40)
I don't know whether this kind of thing can be... would couples therapy help something like this (inaudible 00:08:52)?
THERAPIST: Oh, I think so. I guess it depends on how you define "help." But I think so. It sounds like the two of you... this is, and it's not quite this, but like that you guys dance around the topic of how tough it is, that it's hard for you guys to talk directly just about you. He's defensive, and you're trepidatious, because you don't want to hurt him, and you're angry at him, and you're worried that that anger will come out. And so it's hard. You guys are sort of spending time, you're tip-toeing around the topic and it's very hard for you to feel joined and connected when you're not talking about this or the elephant in the room. [00:09:35]
CLIENT: (pause) (sniffs) Maybe we ought to talk about this, the old sex issue, where Harold feels completely ...abandoned. (sniffs)
THERAPIST: Well, aside from the, sort of, the longevity of these sexual issues, this particular circumstance does not lend oneself to being in the mood.
CLIENT: I know, but then... I know, I absolutely know that. And then it's like, Okay, well... there is always a reason, you know. As Harold pointed out, you know, when we owned a business, it because we... it was crazy when we owned a business. You know, it always seems to be some reason for me to feel that way. (sniffs) [00:10:40]
(pause) I think it's all so scary for me. (inaudible 00:11:04) lose him (inaudible) slowly.
(pause) (blowing nose) I know. Harold has always been a challenge. It's always... it's never easy (inaudible/traffic noise) crazy things like, you know, getting (inaudible) really want help, just, you know, just now it seems to hurt too badly. [00:12:48]
(pause) I don't think it's good for him to not be doing anything (inaudible 00:13:12).
THERAPIST: I'm sorry?
CLIENT: I don't think it's good for him to not be doing something because... I think he gets bored, and (inaudible 00:13:24) and kind of alone and into himself. (pause)
THERAPIST: Well, it seems like part of the reason it's different is you feel like vacations are very different now, than they were in the past. Before it felt like, sort of a part of his personality, where now it feels like it might be part of a decline. [00:14:05]
CLIENT: It's like when he leaves the house, I never know what to expect. (chuckles) When he calls me, I never know what I'm going to hear on the other end of the phone. (pause 00:14:15-00:16:23)
THERAPIST: It sounds like one of the worst parts of this is just feeling alone. (pause)
CLIENT: (ph us) feeling alone (inaudible 00:17:18). I don't know what... (inaudible) what's going to happen next. I just can't... I just don't feel like it. (inaudible 00:17:33). I'm sure you're going to be okay, so why wouldn't I be okay? Well, let's see... (sniffs, blows nose) (pause 00:17:4200:19:15)
THERAPIST: What are you thinking about?
CLIENT: (pause) Just like... what can I do to... ease the tension (inaudible 00:19:35) got no choice. (pause 00:19:34-00:20:37)
(inaudible) ask him if (inaudible) to feel, to (inaudible). Isn't it okay for me to have some expectations? I mean, he's retired, and he can be doing certain things that would make my life easier. It is not okay, because he's in pain all the time. I just, I don't know, I just (inaudible/traffic noise 00:21:00) what's okay... (pause) [00:21:39]
THERAPIST: Have there been other times in your relationship where you feel like you haven't been able to express what it is you felt?
CLIENT: There have been times where I get frustrated because I don't think he's getting it. I'm saying (ph how I feel), but not to the point where, you know, (inaudible). And I've tried, you know, somewhat broaching the subject, but then it never works out.
THERAPIST: What happens? [00:22:07]
CLIENT: He thinks I'm blaming everything on him. Or he'll say, you know, "I can take care of myself; don't worry about me." Just, you know, he... doesn't like to think about or admit that his situation has an effect on me. I should let him, you know... It's his pain, it's his (ph thing). He deals with it, I shouldn't.
THERAPIST: Perhaps, that it's your worry. There are practical implications of you needing to pitch in more, but I think even deeper than that, it's the worry, the emotional implications for you. (pause 00:23:02-00:24:20) What were you thinking about; you look deep in thought. [00:24:23]
CLIENT: I don't know, just, if I can (sighs) get across to Harold the part of me that feels sad and scared, instead of just the f*** thing.
THERAPIST: Ummm.
CLIENT: And this Social Security all of the time, I'm just beside myself. I was so angry. I didn't say anything to him, (ph obviously) (inaudible 00:25:25) (sighs). And part of it was he couldn't get himself out of the house, (inaudible), it's just, he's having a really tough time.
THERAPIST: Motivating himself or physically moving around?
CLIENT: Both, I think, but, you know, yeah, motivating himself, just in the morning in particular. (pause/sniffling/blowing nose 00:25:51-00:27:43)
I'm just so (ph fickle).
THERAPIST: Ummm. I hear that.
CLIENT: (pause 00:27:53-00:30:09) (sniffling) So do you think that I should look for a couples therapist? [00:30:10]
THERAPIST: I think it could help; it's certainly worth a try. I sent you a referral, about a few weeks ago now, I think. Did you not get that? I e-mailed it to you.
CLIENT: I don't remember.
THERAPIST: I think it was someone who was not a Medicare provider, but your insurance, I found someone who took your insurance.
CLIENT: Oh. Everything is going change (ph under) (inaudible 00:30:41). They'll have Medicare and supplemental insurance, so I'm not sure how that works.
THERAPIST: So you're not keeping your insurance anymore?
CLIENT: I'm not insured, but I'm under Harold's. So I guess when he turns 65, he gets Medicare and a supplemental plan from the town, instead of the plan he has now and... I mean it doesn't... I think it covers... therapy, for a certain number of visits. And then I'd stay on what we have now until I turn 65, and then I go on the same supplemental plan with Medicare.
THERAPIST: Uh-mm. [00:31:24]
CLIENT: That stuff is so confusing! (chuckles) I have no (ph idea what I'm talking about). I'm nervous about (ph choosing) all of Harold's doctors.
THERAPIST: Do you think it would be easier to, sort of shoulder the logistics, the logistical, you know, added work of what's going on with Harold if you felt that he understood your position better? Or acknowledged it? I think that's where couples therapy can help. I certainly can't guarantee that Harold will be open to it, but...
CLIENT: Um-hm. He's open to it. [00:32:11]
THERAPIST: Um-hm. But I meant open to hearing, you know, what the experience is like for you. But I think it would certainly be worth a try. And it sounds like you've had good exp... some good experience in the past. I mean, it sounds like you felt... One of the reasons I asked you about, like whether in the past you felt freer to talk about things is you, so you have a history of being freer, and so there is, it's a particularly stressful and scary situation, but I don't see why the two of you couldn't access that previous experience. (pause 00:32:42-00:35:04) When you have become quiet like this today, do you want me to ask you something, or do you want to sort of be with your own thoughts?
CLIENT: (weak/inaudible 00:35:13) No, you can ask. (sniffles)
THERAPIST: You seem to kind of be going inside. (pause) I want to be respectful of that process, but also not leave you alone.
CLIENT: I'm not really getting any, doing anything, and it's not... I think I'm just going to my "no" zone.
THERAPIST: You're what zone?
CLIENT: My "no" zone. (chuckles)
THERAPIST: "No" zone? Kind of like without thoughts or some...
CLIENT: Yeah, just kind of...
THERAPIST: Are you feeling like, do you have like anxiety thoughts when you're there, or just kind of distracted?
CLIENT: Just distracted. (pause 00:35:57-00:36:10) ... a place I go for comfort (chuckles).
THERAPIST: Umm.
CLIENT: ...to deal with it. (pause 00:38:44) Just the thing about (ph Dana) coming over was just so scary. I think, "How can he not have remembered when she was coming over? I mean... I just don't understand it. [00:39:00]
THERAPIST: Do you feel it's a side effect of his medication, or (ph the insurance problem)? [00:39:08] (pause)
CLIENT: I mean (sighs) think about it, the truth of the matter is, I've been dealing with this for years and years. He's not been on medication for years. We go way back; I think of situations where, I guess, you know, just kind of... (pause) where he's just not himself. It's... just, like it's getting worse. (pause) The whole thing is just scary. (pause 00:40:19) (ph I get confliction 00:40:47) You need help, which is an okay decision. It's not because of medication. He's in pain and (inaudible) getting angry is valid. [00:41:04]
THERAPIST: Well, it's all valid. Even if you're angry that he's in pain, it's still valid.
CLIENT: And then it was the thing that he forgets things, and then he gets himself in situations, he goes out without his wallet (sighs)...
THERAPIST: Well, it sounds like you're trying to parse out what you want to hold him responsible for and what he shouldn't be held responsible for. [00:41:43]
CLIENT: (pause) (inaudible 00:41:57) (pause)
THERAPIST: Well, it sounds like for you, it would help if you thought he was trying, even if he tried and forgot stuff, or tried... but that you feel like he's not trying, he's not fighting for health, that he's succumbing to it. And it sounds like that's one thing you're very angry at, because you feel like you're not having this partner in that particular way. [00:42:31]
CLIENT: (pause) (sniffling/blowing nose) It's just so complicated. You know, I just feel like I can't not think about the sex part, which is the part that he lives with, and that he gets, you know, tries to figure out what's okay to be angry and what's okay not to understand. (pause 00:44:40-00:45:02) And so, maybe if I felt a little more connected to you physically, I would be able to show more how I feel, just kind of, you know, we're both kind of all around the main thing. [00:45:11]
THERAPIST: Is it ever comforting when he tries to touch you or reach out to you physically?
CLIENT: Sometimes. Not as much as I'd like it to be, but (inaudible 00:45:35). (pause)
THERAPIST: Well, we really need to stop. I think the silver lining is that you're really trying to figure this out. And I do think, I think there are a lot of complicated pieces because there's your own conflict about it, but I do think that seeing someone, the two of you, could be very helpful as well. [00:46:38]
CLIENT: Thank you.
THERAPIST: So I'll see you... yeah. When I start early, I finish early. I hope that's okay.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: So I'll see you at 5:45 for the next two weeks, and then let's talk about a little earlier time. Great. I hope you have a good rest of the week, okay? Bye-bye.
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