TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: Hi, come on in.

CLIENT: Hi, I need to use the bathroom before we begin. Is that cool?

THERAPIST: Yeah, the keys are (inaudible).

(Pause): [00:00:13 00:04:26]

THERAPIST: It's warm in here today.

CLIENT: Is it?

THERAPIST: Yeah. I have to take my coat off.

(Pause): [00:04:35 00:04:51]

CLIENT: Hi.

THERAPIST: Hi.

CLIENT: I'm just in a whirlwind. I had to figure out I had to leave work in time to get gas, get some food and hopefully to be here on time and then everything was going to be fine but I had to go to the bathroom. So Harold has Medicare. He's found us a doctor (unclear).

THERAPIST: Do you know who it is?

CLIENT: What?

THERAPIST: Do you know who it is?

CLIENT: I don't know. I'll find out. He's (unclear) since he's got more time than I do. It's on his insurance right now because I just don't have the same, the other insurance. So we'll probably be starting soon. So this will probably be the last session.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: It's been good. I feel like the reasons I stated that I came here obviously were not things that were going to be fixed overnight, but I feel like this short term thing that I did, you know, otherwise just dealing with Harold's depression and Harold's situation and being able to acknowledge how bad it was for me and express that to Harold, talking to Harold so I feel that was really helpful. And I don't really know about the other stuff. A just feel like I have to keep on working on it but I think Harold, originally, his idea for me to go to therapy was because he wanted me to come back "fixed" I think. And I knew that that wasn't it just wasn't going to be that simple. So I feel like it's something that he and I just have to keep working on. I don't think it's something that I can really fix even without therapy.

(Pause): [00:06:57 00:06:57]

THERAPIST: How do you feel like your anxiety's been? I know we've talked about it a little bit last time.

CLIENT: I don't feel anxious, but I think if certain things happen like the other night I just didn't sleep, I was just awake, nothing to (unclear). I doubt if I slept very much the whole night. I know this anxiety that I think most of it is hoping that Harold is going to turn around and things are going to get better but I don't really know for sure that it is. And it's a day to day go from day to day and see how things go. I mean he's obviously still struggling.

(Pause): [00:07:55 00:08:07]

CLIENT: Which is fine. It's like now I've seen a good day and so it's like those are the days I want to see with him but that's not necessarily how it's going to be.

(Pause): [00:08:18 00:08:28]

THERAPIST: I can see how therapy I mean you've done it many, many times now, but I can see how it can be so hard for you because you're not someone who just pushes out her private life.

CLIENT: No.

THERAPIST: It's not your style.

(Pause): [00:08:36 00:09:12]

CLIENT: (inaudible) remember (unclear) dreams. I know I did, but I can't remember them.

THERAPIST: That's what we were talking about the end of last week.

(Pause): [00:09:19 00:09:35]

THERAPIST: Is it hard to know what to do with their meanings (unclear)?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Yeah?

(Pause): [00:09:37 00:09:43]

THERAPIST: What was it like ending the other times you ended therapy?

(Pause): [00:09:46 00:09:55]

CLIENT: I remember the last one our couple's therapy.

(Pause): [00:09:57 00:10:08]

CLIENT: I was relieved (laugh) to do it every week.

(Pause): [00:10:12 00:10:16]

CLIENT: But I just for Harold and I it was a mutual decision. We both decided we didn't want to continue with her, that person. Again, I know we didn't resolve the problem but things were better, just sort of talking and (unclear) things in therapy. The therapy before that was frustrating just because I felt like I got really in touch with stuff but I couldn't she's more suggested that we go see the couple's therapist who specializes in sexual dysfunctions. So it was disappointing that I put so much energy into it and that kind of felt like it all I got in touch with was that I thought that there was just something there. And then, well actually, we went to somebody after that alone with the couple's therapy and she just pretty much supported how I felt but didn't really try to deal with why I was having she was dealing with all that was how she feels okay. That's how I felt and I couldn't help it. So that (unclear) control and the therapy we went to couple's therapy way back was again, you know, it was helpful but didn't resolve the problem and I guess the best therapy I had was when I got divorced when I got separated and that just really that therapist just really helped me look at what I I also was in another, not serious relationship, but I was in another relationship and it helped to be in a relationship and then after going through the therapy, you know, what I did and why I ended up with the man I ended up with and so it was really a learning experience to go through the relationship that way. It was quite I (unclear) enjoyed it. That's it. I think that's my therapies. Just a couple.

(Pause): [00:13:25 00:13:32]

CLIENT: That's one, two, three and you will be four. And two couple's. (Pause) But also the individual that I went when I was seeing someone else and went back and met Harold. And that was (unclear) my own insecurity to make sure I'm not doing the same thing.

THERAPIST: You had to clarify that you weren't?

CLIENT: Um hmm [yes].

THERAPIST: It seems like that can be pretty reassuring.

(Pause): [00:14:11 00:14:28]

THERAPIST: Is there more at some point in your life that you'd want to get in touch with that you feel you haven't gotten in touch with yet?

CLIENT: Yes, that would be the whole sex thing. Yeah, I'd like not to be, have this issue. I'd like to be able to feel more intimate and now I know I have issues with that but I just don't know how they get resolved in therapy. I've had therapy (unclear).

(Pause): [00:15:05 00:15:18]

CLIENT: So I'm sort of hoping that in your couple's therapy some of that can be dealt with because I think that Harold and I both have these issues in very different ways.

THERAPIST: What do you think Harold's are?

CLIENT: Well, he has more of a need. I seem to have somehow or other to have pushed my needs somewhere. He's more aware of his need but I don't think he knows how to do it. He came from a family of ten kids and his mother was abusive and his father was never there and it was all muddy and was just a horrible, horrible situation. And he left home as soon as he could and tried to distance himself from his family as much as he could and that obviously had to have an effect on his he once told me that if he had a gun there was a time when he could have shot his mother. So it's pretty intense.

(Pause): [00:16:25 00:16:33]

THERAPIST: It sounds like it.

CLIENT: So I think although he says he wants to be more intimate, he thinks the way to do that is just sexual, physical contact that's his idea of how to feel intimate. And I think that's an important part of it but I don't think that's not the whole thing. You can have sexual experiences and not be intimate. So I think that that's the part that's difficult for him is that's what he attaches it to.

(Pause): [00:17:09 00:17:17]

CLIENT: And to me it's just feeling close, feeling positive feelings about each other, around each other, enjoying each other's company. That to me makes me feel more intimate.

(Pause): [00:17:32 00:17:48]

THERAPIST: What do you think you'll feel about leaving here? Feel sad? Relieved?

CLIENT: No, I mean I feel like it's like I think I've got what I didn't really thought, realize what I was coming here for. I didn't really realize how much I needed to deal with my situation with Harold and not so much this other stuff. Just ongoing things, but that was like a real it was getting to the point where it was just not pleasant to be around each other. So I feel like that really helped and was very helpful to me. (Unclear) I think just the support of somebody telling me, 'yeah, it's real and you're not exaggerating it and you should have reasons to feel the way you feel.' And just being expressing to somebody that I felt agreed and so I feel like there's sort of a purpose for me and I think the other part I do think is more related to each other and hoping that we that it's not going to be dropped. But I just think I'd like to deal with helping me to see things because we both have our issues (unclear).

(Pause): [00:19:09 00:19:15]

THERAPIST: How do you feel about starting that therapy?

CLIENT: Actually, I feel positive about starting it only because it's very frustrating for me when I can't get across to Harold what I'm trying to get across and I just feel like being able to do that would be very helpful for us. I mean there are times I get so exasperated and then what happens is because I get so exasperated I start to like build up and then he thinks I'm yelling and screaming when I'm not really but sometimes he just gets me to the point where I do feel like I have to scream because he just doesn't stop and he just doesn't get it and so I think that I'm looking forward to us I think it will be probably better than any other time that we went because I feel more ready to you know I felt like when we went the last time with the sexual thing it was kind of odd and I had an issue. It always felt that way to me, even from the therapist's point of view it was me that needed she even said, 'look, you have your choice. You can either do something about it or Harold can decide to leave you.' So I just felt like I was the problem and I really, I know I have a problem, but I think it's too interrelated to Harold and his problem, his issues. So I feel like I'm more ready to go in on that level, like okay, I have a problem but Harold has a problem also and how can you work it so that we both feel like we're working on it together instead of just like me trying to figure out how I'm going to enjoy sex.

(Pause): [00:21:16 00:21:27]

CLIENT: And I know it is very different for women, what's important to them to feel like they want to have sex with men and especially somebody like Harold who's just very, it's always been a way that he expresses himself. Sex has always been very important to him. He's way more (unclear) he has much more desire for sex than I do even if I didn't have any issues with sex. And I think especially with his physical problems and everything else that that's just a really important outlet to him. He's just so attached to being and I understand it's a part of being touched and held and I understand all that, but I think that that part can happen, too, without necessarily this sex part and I know he's never been able to because it's just like a vicious cycle, like if I'm not feeling sexual or intimate, then I do shut down and if I do feel like I want to like kind of hug I tend to not because I don't want to have sex. So -

THERAPIST: That particular dynamic is certainly something you could work on in couple's therapy.

CLIENT: And I think and not react to me that's the most important thing we have to deal with because it's something we've been trying to deal with our whole relationship and I think it's I feel more comfortable having it being a joint thing than, 'oh, I'm going to go to therapy, get myself fixed up so that I don't have any sexual issues anymore.' So that denying the issues that I have, you know, there's a couple of things that I can do and learn but what I think is more important is how my and Harold's issues intertwine with each other to make the situation what it is.

(Pause): [00:24:01 00:24:17]

CLIENT: What do you think?

THERAPIST: Those sound all like good things, good plans. It's good to be with a therapist who doesn't diagnose one of the partners as the problem. It's not a good situation. It sounds like what you're wanting is quite workable.

CLIENT: It was interesting because she was referred she's listed in like a very well known (unclear) hospital and she's actually right on the unit dealing with sexual dysfunction but at first she said she couldn't really see us because she was busy and she was going to have somebody else see us but then we talked her into it. I was kind of surprised that I felt like a lot of these issues like I was kind of a (unclear).

(Pause): [00:24:59 00:25:09]

THERAPIST: That's too bad.

(Pause): [00:25:08 00:25:19]

CLIENT: She had us try all these ridiculous sex (unclear). Go in your bedroom and light some candles and I don't think that's it. I think it's more internal. I've got to be feeling like Harold loves me, I've got to be feeling like we're getting along and enjoy each other. I mean that has to be there for me, I can't just set up the situation and say, 'okay, now we're going to feel romantic.'

(Pause): [00:25:50 00:26:00]

THERAPIST: I see that.

CLIENT: Yeah, maybe she seems to think that's the best way to tackle it. And I know I've done a lot of reading where they say you know you just have to do it. You just have to kind of if you don't do it, it gets worse and worse and worse so you have to kind of force yourself to just do things that you don't think you want to do and then it ultimately makes it easier and it gets better but (unclear) to work for me at all.

(Pause): [00:26:30 00:26:46]

THERAPIST: What would you like to do with our remaining time?

CLIENT: I don't know. How much time do we have?

THERAPIST: A little over 15 minutes.

CLIENT: I should go home and get my dog. He's been left since 11 o'clock this morning. That will be a real relief of tensions that I'm having to -

THERAPIST: You're worried about your dog?

CLIENT: About the dog. It just seems (unclear) therapy.

(Pause): [00:27:22 00:27:32]

THERAPIST: Well, is there anything else that would be helpful to hear or to know or any feedback you want from me?

CLIENT: Any feedback you want to give me, I'm certainly open.

THERAPIST: Well I think I should tell you that last time I was really glad to hear that you're doing better. I'm glad to use this opportunity to I'm glad you were able to use this opportunity to validate your experience and really address it with Harold. I'm glad to hear that the picking has gotten better, although not totally away, but I think, you know, like I said last time, there is some more kind of underlying issues that could be interesting to tackle but it doesn't seem essential. It's ultimately up to you. And as you say, it's been so long, you know, who knows how important they are to change, or how much changes you wanted to do. But I think that would be my primary feedback. You've been a delight to get to know.

CLIENT: Thank you. Even though I don't tell you stuff, personal stuff.

THERAPIST: But I've told you a lot of stuff.

CLIENT: You have told me a lot of stuff. It's not that I don't I have no problem if something comes to my mind of sharing it with a therapist. I don't necessarily share a lot of that stuff with other people, but try to be open in therapy to I think part of what happened here is I just sort of like, I know that stuff that I'm talking about is long term, it's not going to happen overnight. I'm just must muster up the energy to deal with that as much as I was to deal with the current situation.

(Pause): [00:29:33 00:29:49]

CLIENT: I appreciate that you saw me for $85 a week. That was a big help.

THERAPIST: I'm glad that worked out.

(Pause): [00:30:01 00:30:05]

THERAPIST: Money is an ongoing issue for you, you and Harold. Sorry to hear about all the struggles your family had. That's too bad.

CLIENT: Well, the good news is my mother's fine. It didn't really hurt my mother. She had enough to go into the home. It (unclear) and that's what her life (unclear) and there wasn't much else that she needed to do, so it really (inaudible). The kids got affected the most by it. My sister had money had money in there.

(Pause): [00:30:48 00:30:54]

CLIENT: And my mother used to say that my father had nine lives. I think my mother has 18 lives. I think I told you about where she had that accident where she was wearing a neck brace. About three months ago, she's 92, and she apparently fell in her apartment. She didn't just fall. Somehow or other she was sitting at her computer desk and she got up and she managed to like smash into the windows so that it was like she looked like she had been mugged and she was a mess. She was in the hospital. She didn't break anything. They thought that she didn't break anything. Then she was having a lot of neck pain and they took an MRI and they said she had a cracked vertebra in her neck. So they put this like massive thing on her and she went to rehab and again, she's 92 years old. She fell. She was like perfectly you know, she has all her faculties. She's really fine and she couldn't turn her head and then she had to go back to the doctor in six weeks for evaluation and when she went back after the first six weeks he said, I don't see any healing. And so he said the only options would be to wear this all the time or surgery and surgery wasn't really an option because the surgery she could have that's noninvasive is just to go in a fuse the bone, but a 92 year old person, what bone is going to fuse? So then they were (unclear) real intrusive surgery that would be hours and hours of spinal surgery. So we got a second opinion and the doctor changed her brace, still the kind of brace where she couldn't do anything. She couldn't lift like she couldn't turn her head down, she couldn't eat without help. So, she went back home with some help and she had an appointment and he gave her some medication and some electronic stuff he was doing, I don't know. And she had to go back Thursday and he said that the bone was healing and we were all really surprised and not expecting that. And he said she could start taking off the brace like an hour a day and then two hours and so that was good news.

THERAPIST: Wow. So was that like life 18? You said she had 18 lives.

CLIENT: Yeah, I mean she you would think when somebody at that age falls the way she did, the fact that she was just bruised everywhere and then cracked vertebra in her neck and of course she went through what happens to elderly people in the hospital and plus she is very susceptible to medications so she was completely out of it and you know, I've seen it before, with my father, so I knew that it was probably just the hospital thing where as soon as she got out, she'd be okay, but you know, you don't know for sure. So she pulled through it all. It's amazing.

THERAPIST: That's quite a story.

CLIENT: Yeah. She was all excited about going down without the brace so that everybody would see that she was going to the doctor. You know, she's a big hit at this place. She's like she's so positive and everybody loves her.

(Pause): [00:34:31 00:34:37]

THERAPIST: Does she seem like a different kind of person than she was when you were growing up?

CLIENT: Oh yeah.

(Pause): [00:34:41 00:34:48]

CLIENT: Although I don't really know how to describe her, remember how she looked when I was growing up, but I know that she was different.

(Pause): [00:34:55 00:35:04]

THERAPIST: So, now Harold's father is not doing well. (Pause) I'll just write you a check.

(Pause): [00:35:12 00:35:17]

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: Now it feels cold. (Pause) I live in this coat even in the house.

THERAPIST: It's a nice jacket.

CLIENT: Harold gave it to me for Christmas and I haven't taken it off since.

THERAPIST: It's very nice. Very stylish.

CLIENT: It's so warm. In certain weather it's maybe just 40 degrees or so, I don't even wear a jacket. (Pause) What's today?

THERAPIST: It's the fifth.

CLIENT: Three, five, thirteen. I'm definitely ready for the winter to be over.

(Pause): [00:35:52 00:36:24]

THERAPIST: Thank you.

CLIENT: Thank you. It's been a great (unclear) visit. Thank you for helping me.

THERAPIST: It was my pleasure and it really was a delight getting to know you.

CLIENT: Oh, thank you.

THERAPIST: And of course, I'm here should you want to come back for any reason. Take care.

CLIENT: Thank you.

THERAPIST: Okay, and good luck with the couple's therapy.

CLIENT: Thank you.

THERAPIST: Okay. Take care, Elaine. Okay, bye-bye.

END TRANSCRIPT