TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

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CLIENT: Alright, what do you think?

THERAPIST: Hmm?

CLIENT: I just didn't shave, I had a cold. So of course I left here and was that Friday, I don't know what the fuck day, it's Wednesday.

THERAPIST: Monday?

CLIENT: That was Monday. So I left here and Kelly and I texted, you know, and I was totally myself, she was like "how are you, what's going on" whatever, and I said "how was your weekend", whatever. I was like "well I saw a bunch of my friends and there's some people looking forward to meeting you. [00:01:06] So, she was like "Yay, you know, exclamation mark". So I definitely spent the rest of Monday just, like I said in here, just kinda like (pause) perfectly happy with that situation, but realizing it has nothing to do with that situation. So...(pause) I mean I'm still being, like, after she said I was so like happy (laugh) I was like (laugh) leave it at that (ph). So I haven't texted her since Monday, figure I'll leave her, obviously tomorrow, but (pause). So there were a few things. One was even before I felt that relief, when I got to the Starsucks (ph) there at the Center (ph), I did feel a little bit, not better, but I felt like I was kind of coaching myself better. [00:02:27] I just found that I was somehow feeling, I can't explain it exactly but I sensed a little bit more, I was like, "alright, whatever man". Oh, I, especially (inaudible). When I was like "oh, that's what it was". Because I was like "when some friends, people (inaudible)". She didn't respond to that immediately. We were going back and forth and on that one I didn't hear, so then I was like "Oh shit, did I say too much, like I have friends that want to meet you." So that part, then I was good, I stopped it. And of course then I heard from her like five hours, whatever, she's like "yay!". So it's just, I gotta just chill out with that. The more I realize it's not having anything to do with (pause). It was good too because I was happy but I didn't get too happy, you know what I mean? Because now I know this is nothing to do with anything, my excitement, or my whatever anxiety...

THERAPIST: Despair?

CLIENT: Despair...have nothing to do with this girl and and texting, you know? [00:03:45] I mean I really want it to work out but that has nothing to do with being so sad or so happy. So now it's good, it felt kinda, I can't explain it, but something in me was like "alright". Maybe because I saw it for what it was, made me feel better, just that made me feel better. (pause)

THERAPIST: All of the hope and wish and fantasy doesn't get solidified as about...

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Her?

CLIENT: I reminded myself, so right now, it's great, I heard that. But again next week she could decide she doesn't want to be with me. Next year, in two weeks, that's never gonna end, you know what I mean? Like I need to somehow, really get over that because someone could be getting back to you non-stop and then all of the sudden for some reason they're not. Things do happen and I don't mean that in a negative way, just mean it in like (pause). I think it's important in life to be able to handle either way, good stuff and bad stuff, as level headed as you can be. [00:05:15] (pause)

THERAPIST: Then what if it didn't work out because of her? The old stuff in your wants to kinda take that as incredibly personal...

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: Instead of, you know, you've alluded to the timing of people meeting, seems like that...

CLIENT: Yeah, things (inaudible).

THERAPIST: Like things don't work out?

CLIENT: Jobs, bosses, any kind of interpersonal anything. Just can't (pause). And it's also a flip side of, you also have to allow yourself to enjoy when things are going well without getting too euphoric, you know what I mean? You can't be in a constant state of bracing yourself for (pause). So in that way it was good, I felt like Monday I was myself, I was texting her, it was all good and I felt you know (pause)

THERAPIST: So you think it's shifted a little?

CLIENT: A little bit, I mean it's not day and night, but a little bit [00:06:55]. (pause) So the more you see the absurdity of your behavior, that helps to not, with me, helps not to act that way as much, you know what I mean? (pause)

THERAPIST: You're also starting to talk about this image of a man as a particular kind of pillar of strength and stoicism.

CLIENT: Right, right.

THERAPIST: I just wonder, it sounds like it feels so much a truth inside you, that it almost doesn't occur to you to start talking about it and it may be something that just somehow what you grew to believe. So to know and say that out loud...

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Look at it and figure out where it came from.

CLIENT: Right, it's just, I mean that's definitely just as much a fantasy as all the other fantasies of my life, you know, about like women, (inaudible) or music, you know what I mean? [00:08:23] It was funny because I was actually, Monday night I went to Dave's so we could finish the record you know. So it was totally subconscious but I think while I was there I felt so much more, I mean I always feel comfortable with Dave, he's one of my best friends but I felt extra comfortable because I was like "yeah, I wouldn't want this life." He's completely broke, you know, his girlfriend shafted him over the summer, like what (inaudible). It's like I'm looking for something that's not there, I'm looking for someone to be a brother figure or a father figure or you know what I mean? He's just a friend of mine so...

THERAPIST: Honestly does it feel extreme (ph) to see the real Dave, instead of a fantasy of Dave?

CLIENT: Yeah giving him, what's the word? I can't think of the word, when you give someone credit but you, fuck, what's that word? You designate?

THERAPIST: Bestow? [00:09:49]

CLIENT: No you, like being cool or being stoic I give those qualities to him, I hate that. (laugh) Anyway, I give him credit for these things that may or may not be there but regardless they're not things up on a pedestal and they're not things that I don't have I just think I don't have them. That's the whole other thing is that. Of course I forget all the times people have told me how well I handle things, and I'm always calm and I give such great advice . I forget all that.

THERAPIST: So what is it, when you think about him, what have you given him?

CLIENT: What do you mean?

THERAPIST: When you say giving him these...

CLIENT: Attributes? Damn.

THERAPIST: What qualities? [00:10:53]

CLIENT: That whole cool, kind of aloof, it's as if things don't bother him and because of that he's...that part of me feels like that's why he's more attractive to people than you are. He kind of just doesn't care at all, all this shit, and it's nonsense, of course he cares, he was a wreck, his girlfriend dumped him over the summer... Again it's the idea that even though we're the exact same age I think he's older, you know what I mean? He's somehow more something, I don't even know what it is. So... and that's generally what I do without a lot of my guy friends, not all, but generally, that somehow they're living life more or something, they're in it more. I don't know what that means. (pause)

THERAPIST: Hmm. So they, I mean we don't talk as much about men as women but men can have that kind of idealization too.

CLIENT: Totally, yeah totally. Like women, certainly guys. It's not with all women (ph), it's not with all my guy friends I have some guy friends that I don't think about that but yeah some friends I think it might be connected to some music things or artistic things or not that it involves them, nothing, I mean it's not artistically....He's the one that's always saying you know "I can't believe how amazing these songs sound. You somehow write songs all the time." It's more that he somehow, or somehow that makes me feel somehow worse or something. Then I feel like "yeah I do do all of that and look at me? [00:12:50] Should I be doing better?" Maybe there's a little bit of that, you know what I mean? Or there's the sense of, that yeah, somehow he's more together... I don't know, I don't know what it is? With other guys it's more antagonistic (ph), not with friends, but if Dave and I are out and we see acquaintances, it's more like "these fucking hipster dufuses" (sp), they just seem so kinda carefree, they're so excited because they're doing some bullshit thing, you know what I mean? It's something about that, again I know that I'm projecting because who knows what the fuck those people are going through? But I'm definitely projecting and also because I seem the same way to them. Right? It's nonsense. "What are you up to? ‘Well I just played in The City'..." Right, they could be saying the same thing but, you know, it's just the way I feel. [00:13:50] (pause)

THERAPIST: Discovering that they too (ph) are projective objects, they're not actually whole people, but certain people who fit certain criteria of the fantasy get sort of pulled into the fantasy...

CLIENT: Yeah, I just thought of one story, about when Dave was going through a really hard time, we were hanging out like every night and went to this shitty bar and all the sudden, I hate it (ph), but went to this shitty bar there. It was fun, we were having a good time, but I was also kind of in a bad place, I wasn't feeling quite as good as I feel right now or as I've been feeling, or maybe it was just that day, I don't know what it was but we ran into this guy we know and he and Dave started talking and I felt left out and so when they were done talking and the guy left and whatever I was like, pissed and I went off, was like "fuck".

THERAPIST: Went off on Dave?

CLIENT: Not on Dave, but I went off. I vented, I vented.

THERAPIST: But not to Dave about Dave?

CLIENT: No, no, no, not about Dave, cause it wasn't about Dave, I just felt like that guy was kind of ignoring me and wasn't including me and you know I was like, fuck this, you know, all this stuff. [00:15:10] (laughs) Dave was like "oh man, I'm sorry, it's just, you know we were talking about my ex because he knows her". They were talking about something that just was personal kind of and you know, include me in what? (ph) He's wasn't being an asshole he was just talking to Dave about something serious that Dave's going through and he knows his ex and I guess he had hooked up with Dave's ex years ago. There's some history there so I took something that had nothing to do with me, you know and I made it about me, and I just, that's my mom's side, you know, that's, I don't like that. That was a good...It doesn't mean I love that guy, I still think that guys a little bit whatever, but the point is that he's not going out of his way, he always says hi to me, he's a nice guy. It's like...

THERAPIST: His intention was not to...

CLIENT: Yeah, deliberate. Every time I've seen him he goes out of his way to say hello, come on, he might be a bit of a dope or whatever but no more or less than me if you look at it from the outside right? They don't know me, that guy doesn't really know me well. You know what I mean? Like I always have this sense that I'm the one, again set outside, when I go to the bar, well that's not always the case but...And in certain settings I'm the one whose the outsider and it's like the cool kids in high school and they've somehow let me in but I'm not completely in. [00:16:41] I still do feel like musically, I still feel that way a little bit, you know I, but now I'm getting better at reminding myself that it's not personal, that's a small town and it's cliquey, you know, and indie rock is cliquier than other cliques and it's just people and their cool little friends and their cool little bands. That started actually motivating me, now I feel like that instead of it like making me so angry, now it's just motivating. It's like well I don't know, I just played a great show in the city on a Saturday night so, I don't...But (pause) Anyway that's the bottom line a lot of times, or not a lot of times, there's just certain situations where that voice comes up and I just feel kinda like yeah these people are all being nice to me but (pause)...like I'm a second tier person, you know what I mean? [00:17:51]

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: So...

THERAPIST: It sounds like one of the things you're doing is pulling apart the difference between how you feel and what someone's intentions and actions are about. That just because you feel a certain thing doesn't mean that's what actually the intention or what's happening...

CLIENT: Not only that but I'm realizing now that that's the sad part. Right now I'm realizing not only just because it's a 99 percent of the time that seems to be the case, that's what the sadness is about. Like, pretty much every fucking time I'm wrong. What if I come in here and say "yeah I was feeling blah blah blah" and then I was right? That's like never happened, you know. So I mean I do think I'm kinda good at reading people but in terms of when I really feel something, that's nine out of ten its way off, way off. [00:18:56]

THERAPIST: It's kind of definition if you boil it down to what paranoia is. The assumption that there is no difference between what I feel and what's happening...

CLIENT: Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you...

THERAPIST: If you feel like people are out to get you doesn't mean they actually are or just cause you feel like an outsider doesn't mean people are looking at you like an outsider. That there's a whole inner life going on...

CLIENT: I mean that was what high school was like, I've told you right (inaudible). I was like "oh my god, people like me."

THERAPIST: You had friends...

CLIENT: It was because I didn't go to their parties, I didn't hang out with them, I didn't you know. Same with my first year in college, you know. Not to mention more and more I realize now that these are people I don't necessarily want to be friends with anyway, you know.

THERAPIST: Which is a totally separate thing, right? That's what you're saying, right? If you can make it through to "it doesn't really matter" then there's some space to actually think about who they are as separate people.

CLIENT: Yeah but I want to be friends with like alcoholics and just because I think, or a part of me thinks they're somehow cooler than me? I mean, they're not cool. I see that now but... [00:20:16] It's crazy, it's crazy. I definitely see it more and more, I mean, for example when I go with Dave to certain bars, it's not Dave that gets the special treatment, I get the special treatment. The bartenders know me, you know, they treat me nice, they ask me how I'm doing, you know, they'll give me a special coosi (sp) for my fucking beer that they don't give other people so (laughs) I mean, that's my fault for not being able to see things for what they are. In the past I'd be like "yeah they just want tips", I've kind of, there could be some truth to that but, you know, at the same time (pause). You know, I remember one time I was thinking that on my way home, I was like "what am I saying?" My tips for my Buds? They're selling fucking fancy drinks left and right...I go there to drink Bud and they're always fucking nice to me, they're always like sweet, they're, so they're that bad? These people are that bad that they're just, you know what I mean? [00:21:37] Like when I really stop to think about it, I was like just for the extra few dollar tip on fucking Budweiser's, I was like come on man, that's like beyond cynical, you know? It's actually the opposite, they're doing that to the other people, that they don't know that well, who are getting expensive drinks, who are kinda douchey (sp), that's who they're doing that to, you know? It's the exact inverse, you know what I mean? When I go there, they're happy because I'm a nice guy, I go there with nice friends, we have nice chats, we talk about music and just life. It's like, it's very, that's my mom's side, you know, that's very, no matter how nice you might be, I can't let you, you know? Like here, it's like, oh well, at the end of the day it's about money, it's her job, it's like everything I find a way to, or if I let myself.

THERAPIST: But it's really hard for you to imagine and believe I might care about you?

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, or that any, when I go out and see people I know, if we're not tight, tight friends that deep down I'll feel like, you know? [00:22:57] I don't know, I'll just be suspect a little bit of stuff. It's gotten way, way, way, way, way, way better but...(pause).

THERAPIST: You're constantly looking for that proof that they don't really like you after all, you're mind is scanning for that?

CLIENT: I mean I don't know if it is as much anymore, but yeah, that's a (pause), yeah, definitely in any case, in any situation, it's always looking...I mean, I remember, I don't know if I told you but when I first got back, I had a rough few months, you know, I felt very, I felt like Jason was being weird. I felt like he was, "did we talk about?" Yeah, so even there, you know, it's like "dude he's not my dad, you know, he's not my dad." He's a, he has a very, very busy, full life. [00:24:05] And also I'm the one that left, right? I mean I was his star guy, and I left. I had good reason to leave but, so, he was being friendly, but not overly friendly. And again it was like "so what?" It was that idea that I was feeling, but yeah that's it, "I'll never publish another book again, like what am I saying?" You know it's like this very infantile...

THERAPIST: That's the feeling of a child...that's if you're parents don't love you, in your mind, if that's what you experience, if you don't feel love, that is the end of it, as a child and I think you do carry that feeling with you about men into relationships now. It's best if he doesn't, if she doesn't, then that's it, that proves it. [00:25:15] As though in some way in the fantasy that they're each you're mother and you're father.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: Looking still for that validation, confirmation, you never got.

CLIENT: Yeah, but it's like "what am I saying", I already did get published so... I already have a foot in the door in general, like now I can go to a different publisher if I want, like yeah I'm not out of nowhere, this is what I've...you know not only that Jason is still Jason, if I have him a manuscript that's just as good as what I wrote before he's gonna be like (inaudible) you know what I mean? It's just, you know, I wanted him to like take an extra interest in the real stuff that he did a little bit when I first got there, the first time. But even that, even if I'd have stayed those things can't be forever, you know what I mean? [00:26:21] That was initially, I was excited, he was excited, he probably wanted me to feel comfortable and all that. But the guy's not gonna adopt me or something.

THERAPIST: That may be sad? (ph) (pause) [00:28:09]

CLIENT: Funny thing though, is like I was thinking, like the one hump I'm still not able to get, I think I'll get over, I don't know why it's taking so long and it's excruciating, is that I still can't take advantage of my time to be more productive, it's just not happening. Like lately with work, our meetings, we've had a couple of meeting, those got canceled and I'm literally doing like nothing. I'm fine with that, it's all good, but I feel stupid for not taking advantage of that time. I mean, you know what I mean? I don't know what that is about anymore, I don't, I don't understand it, I don't understand it. You know what I mean? To me that's very strange, like no one's bothering me. I have a department, like things are in the right place, you know what I mean? I have a job.

THERAPIST: In your external life?

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah.

THERAPIST: But not inside?

CLIENT: Yeah, so that's what I'm assuming again but although that's odd to me. I feel like a lot of, that should make me want to write in a way, to get stuff... I don't know, I don't know what it is. [00:29:36] It's really bothering me. I don't understand it. I even kind of try sometimes, like I'll open a file or I'll sometimes I'll like try to like write an e-mail to myself, like little tricks to try to get me to write and just, I don't know. And it can't be that I have nothing, there's like nothing, cause there's just not, there's a lot to write, you know?

THERAPIST: There was a time a few weeks ago where you, we had just been talking about the feeling that you don't yet have the story of what you want to write and all the sudden you started writing for a couple days. Do you remember that?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: You actually came in here with more detailed memory then I've ever heard for the next couple days about things from the past. It sort of felt like something had opened up. It doesn't mean I feel like what you wrote has much substance yet but you started writing something then stopped again.

CLIENT: Yeah, I don't know. It's not, it's just not getting into, I feel like with writing there has to be something regular about it. [00:30:57] Otherwise, it's actually more frustrating, I'd rather just not do it, you know what I mean? It's not like music to me, you know? There has to be something, because it really is just a zone you go to a place and you can't just keep, it's to....I don't know what the word is. It's too like schizophrenic to keep like a little bit here and then not, and then a little bit and then not, and then just like all over the place. I don't know.

THERAPIST: So what stops you from just setting aside in your schedule, in your planner, several chunks of time where it's your writing time?

CLIENT: That's what I'm saying. I don't understand anymore, I don't know.

THERAPIST: Have you tried that? Where you?

CLIENT: I mean I'm at Starsucks (ph) all day doing nothing right? So yeah I'll be like "okay, how about writing a little bit?" It's like I don't go, "gosh I should be writing here all day." I know enough to know that a page, I'd be happy with a fucking page you know? Doesn't happen. [00:32:01]

THERAPIST: But what if you said, not all day but at 9 am, from 9 to 10 I write everyday? Then I stop writing at 10?

CLIENT: I don't know.

THERAPIST: What would happen?

CLIENT: I have no idea. I think why, I worry, I've tried that in the past, I don't do it.

THERAPIST: Why not?

CLIENT: I don't know.

THERAPIST: What happens?

CLIENT: That's what I'm trying... I don't know, I don't know what the deal is. I don't know what, I don't know if I'm scared to do it, I'm, my brain is too full so I don't know what to start with, I don't know what to say. I don't know. Like I'm all over the place, I don't know if I should write a poem or just write a straight-forward, like history or you know what I mean, of my, or write a novel...like I think I'm just all over the place when it comes to that. Either that or those are excuses not to write, I have no idea, I don't know, I don't know anymore. It doesn't make any fucking sense. [00:33:07]

THERAPIST: What are you most wanting to work on right now? What's the next step?

CLIENT: I think the easiest thing to finish would be, not easiest, but I feel like the next book of poems should be done by now you know? Just should be done.

THERAPIST: It has some? It's partly done?

CLIENT: Yeah, I've got like 50 pages. Most poetry manuscripts are like 40-60 pages but the problem is a lot of those I don't like anymore. I feel like I'm changing and I, so there's that, but also just I feel like I don't know why I'm not able to just write a straight-forward, just to document things. Do you know what I mean? That's really weird to me that I can't do that, just for myself. Be like "okay, my mom's family got on a boat from Beirut to Armenia on this date and this is what happened." Not for literary value just to...[00:34:04]

THERAPIST: Like so not even concerned with the quality of the writing?

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah, and I'm not able to do that, I'm not.

THERAPIST: So what's, what happens? You go to do it and what happens?

CLIENT: I feel like the sentences are stupid and I feel like it's boring, I feel like who cares. I don't, I mean I don't know if that's exactly what I'm thinking but something just...

THERAPIST: It's extreme self-criticism.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. I think that's why I've never been able to keep journals or anything. I can't just be free, like I love looking at other people's journals, you know? They're so...you know? Lists and sketches and just doodles and everything, you know, who cares? I cannot fucking do that. I can't do it. I've bought so many journals and just, there's nothing. (pause)

THERAPIST: It does sound like being almost constricted in your freedom of expression.

CLIENT: Yeah, remember I've said before like it literally feels like a block, like something is, like, yeah. Yeah, because I know myself, I know there's plenty to write, plenty. [00:35:22] There's something about not allowing myself to just write shitty pages, write shit that I'm not gonna keep, you know? Then write a poem, then not write a poem, then write a couple pages of something else, like who cares? That's the process you know? That's what I do with music. When I sit down I play something, then I play something else, then I come back to that then I...that's no problem but for some reason with writing it's like fucking pulling hair, pulling teeth.

THERAPIST: I wonder if that comes up sometimes in here too? That it sometimes feels it can feel like you're supposed to have the right answer or the right idea or if you say something that isn't quite what you mean or that changes once it starts coming out of your mouth, like it's not...You get very all the sudden self-conscious and self-critical about what it is you're saying that wasn't quite right. You don't get to just play, try ideas, discard some and just see what comes.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: It's not free.

CLIENT: No, that's true. [00:36:40]

THERAPIST: Like I think a little bit about that when you, you know we've talked a little bit about, it's this, but then you say on the other hand I...like it's one way of sort of having to make sure that I get it, or that you get the complete picture so that there are no misinterpretations, following that line into it's intensity and what's in there and like if that isn't the perfect end picture of you, you get worried we have to, you know, make sure we get the whole thing. You know?

CLIENT: It's true. (pause) I mean, all I can think is, the only thing that all of these things have in common is that, you know, you're vulnerable if you do any of those things. Right? If you sit down, you just write, write, write you know, you're vulnerable. If you come in here and you follow something all the way to the end you're vulnerable. That's the only commonality I can see, you know what I mean? So that's what I'm saying maybe it's a fear thing, you know? I'm scared to write a great book, I'm scared to just I don't know, I have no idea cause I can't think of what ...It'd be different if I was like ‘I can't think of any ideas, I don't know what to write" you know? That's not the case, you know? [00:38:11] So all I can think is that something is finding a way to get me not to accomplish that so then, then it can say "see" or something I guess so that I can be like "ah, you suck" you know or something.

THERAPIST: Although that's a kind of safer place to criticize from than what if you write it, or what if you go down one of these pathways and you find something you don't like.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: What if it feels terrible or what if it feels really vulnerable, you know if you really invest in line, not knowing where it's going.

CLIENT: Well I think that's the thing too, I think with writing maybe that's the thing, especially with prose that, you know, maybe something in me doesn't want to go to that place, you know what I mean? Who wants to sit around writing all the details of how their father died or about all these bad things about them, you know? It's just a lot, it's a lot you know? So maybe there's just something in me that finds a way to (pause)...[00:39:34] That's probably the same with exercise, you know? I'll be all healthy and stronger, whatever, that doesn't fit with the voice that says "yeah a bigger (ph) and ugly loser, you know what I mean? So I can't see being all healthy and fit and athletic that doesn't make any sense you know? It's like this weird, I mean, again I'm assuming that it's something like that you know?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Cause really what's, I know myself, you know, I know, ten or twenty minutes on the treadmill is nothing you know, so that doesn't make any reasonable sense to me, to not get some exercise (inaudible).

THERAPIST: It's almost like if you really let yourself do these things, go down these paths, there's a fear that you'll find you are what you really fear you are. You just said like the fear that I'm really just an ugly loser...

CLIENT: Yeah, well, yeah, yeah...I think it's almost the opposite, I think it's that I think that part of me won't know what to do, it'll be like, I almost can't even, you know what I mean? Like "oh shit, I actually wrote a novel, oh shit, I run every day" that it's like what does that voice have left? You know what I mean? [00:41:35]

THERAPIST: So it feels like staying put kind of confirms that?

CLIENT: It either confirms, I'm sure on some level, it's just more comfortable, you know what I mean? I'm in my comfort zone, you know? But if I got out of that it's like, then what do I have? You know it's like remember when I was saying all those things, "I'm a poet, what do you know I just got published by the most prestigious...", then what, you now what I mean? I think there's something, there's like, what's called? Cognitive dissonance? I don't know if that's what this is but there's like a disconnect between, it's like I don't know what to do with doing well, you know? So I think something in me finds ways to...I mean how easy is it to just send poems to journals? Right? Especially these days, it takes a second, everything's electronic you know? I don't do that. Why? [00:42:38] It doesn't make any sense right? I can't find one reasonable explanation except that there's something that's saying "yeah but then what?" Then you start getting published here and there, what does that mean? Like what then? Like that means you're out of your comfort zone, that means you're, you know?

THERAPIST: Which is scary?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Even here? Like lying on the couch?

CLIENT: What's that?

THERAPIST: Like lying on the couch? You're out of you're comfort zone on the chair?

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: Then what comes out, what happens...(pause) [00:44:00] [00:45:20]

CLIENT: You know I think, you know there's nothing more (sighs), I don't know, like kind of devastating and yet liberating at the same time then knowing that the only thing keeping you back is you, you know? I think that's, the more layers I peel, it's like "Jesus." I mean....(pause) [00:46:24]

THERAPIST: So we'll meet again Monday?

CLIENT: Okay, Monday at?

THERAPIST: Monday at 9:10. We'll do the one time?

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: Does that sound...?

CLIENT: Yeah. So Monday at 9:10?

THERAPIST: Monday at 9:10 and then the following Monday thereafter will be 10:00.

CLIENT: Okay. (whispering). Thanks (inaudible)

THERAPIST: You too.

CLIENT: Thanks.

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