TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: It's all good, it's all good, whew...

THERAPIST: You made it?

CLIENT: What's that?

THERAPIST: You made it?

CLIENT: Yeah I did, I did. It was actually a good exercise in not getting to annoyed. It was good. Cost me like 675 dollars so...that could have pissed me off, really annoyed me cause I have little to nothing, between paychecks, but I was like "you know what, that's nice that I can afford to pay for it", you know?

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: And actually my mechanic was really nice, he's like "just pay me for the labor next week" or something, you know. A lot of mechanics won't let you do that so that was very nice of him, I just payed for the parts. Anyway...but I was lucky though, I mean it completely died so I sensed that something, all the dashboard lights came on and my radio went off so I ran like two red lights. (laughs) I was like "this is not good, this isn't good." So luckily I made it to his shop before it...So...[00:01:11] Car has 90,000 miles on it, it's gonna happen, never had to change the alternator before so....Anyway. So (thumping)....So yeah I've been thinking, remember I was saying I was focused on the money stuff?

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: So yeah, that, I feel pretty, you know, kind of, overall pretty good about that I guess. But I think that this other thing I was saying about how, why I don't feel more motivated, and then I was like "well, I'm doing all this music," so I am motivated, you know, whatever. But you know, there's still, the only thing is, I do find that, I don't want to say I sleep a lot but I do, but I feel like I do, you know what I mean? [00:02:15] So it's the only thing like, for some reason I don't spring out of bed. And I've talked to a few of my friends about this and they're like "dude, you just don't like the mornings," why is that such a, why does everybody have to be up at six o'clock in the morning, you know? It's like you don't work in a factory, you don't work in an office, so I don't know, there is something about it that bothers me. Maybe it's that my dad was such a morning person, I mean not that my mom isn't, but my dad was very, just you know, like I was up at five in the morning. So I don't know if it's that, I just feel guilty or something...or that I'm just kind of being hard on myself, I don't know but...cause I feel like it is kind of weird that I don't want to get up in the morning and work on music. Do you know what I mean? I don't know if I'm creating a problem that's not really there or maybe I should split the difference. Maybe I should get up a little bit earlier but not feel so bad that I'm trying to get up at like seven in the morning or something when I don't have to. I don't know.

THERAPIST: Maybe they're both going on?

CLIENT: Yeah. [00:03:21] My friend Dave, he has this kind of similar schedule, there's like, "dude but then you'll work later." He's like "you do stuff, it's not like at night, you're just eating popcorn, that's sometimes when you work." You know? So...you know, it's just an unconventional schedule you know?

THERAPIST: Mm hm. How much are you sleeping when you say...? It sounds like you're afraid you're sleeping too much but you're not sure that you are.

CLIENT: It's not really too much because what's happening, especially this week, my sleep pattern got thrown off again. I've been sleeping later, so of course if I wake up at like noon it's cause I slept at four, well that's eight hours of sleep.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: You know? So...

THERAPIST: So it's not that you're going to bed at even eleven and just sleeping until eleven?

CLIENT: No, no way. I couldn't go to bed at eleven if I wanted to anyway. No.

THERAPIST: For a little while you were saying you were going to be a little earlier...

CLIENT: I was going to bed by like one.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah.

THERAPIST: That's the earliest you would go to bed?

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. [00:04:20] By one, sometimes midnight, whatever. And then, yeah, of course if I went to bed at that time then, I mean I think it's pretty, like, in that way my body is pretty regulated. If I go to bed around midnight I will, kind of wake up around, I still enjoy the sleeping, but definitely by nine I'm gonna be out of bed, I mean, you know? That's eight, nine hours of sleep (laughs), you know?

THERAPIST: So you're not, it's not oversleeping?

CLIENT: No, I don't think it is. You know what it is? I think it's that if you have that kind of unconventional schedule you do, I think it does make you groggier though. I think there's something to be said for people, if you go to bed at eleven and wake up at seven or eight, there's just something, because that's, the sun, I don't know, there's something...biological.

THERAPIST: (inaudible)

CLIENT: That's right? Yeah. Where as I think if you go to bed at like three in the morning and you wake up at ten or eleven, when you wake up you still feel kind of tired, like, or kind of groggy, something, you know? So, and because of that you might end up sleeping another hour. [00:05:22]

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Because you're just kind of feeling lethargic or whatever. So there's some of that, you know? So...

THERAPIST: There are occasional people who are night owls, like, naturally their body rhythm works at it's highest level, staying up late and waking up late. Statistically though that's a very rare type so I don't know...it also sounds like you're kind of trying to figure out "is that just who I am?" Or is there something, actually would it be better for you if you went to bed earlier? Like does that...

CLIENT: The counter argument would be no, because the times I have gone to bed early and woken up early...

THERAPIST: You don't feel any better?

CLIENT: It's not like I'm like "hey!" you know, like, I just wake up and I feel the way I generally feel. So I think it's, I just feel...

THERAPIST: You hadn't felt better then? It's not, you were starting to say you felt groggier if you go to bed later and wake up later.

CLIENT: If I oversleep.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: But if I only sleep like seven hours, seven or eight hours, I just get up. It's, you know, I think it really is a conventional, I think it's a little bit psychological, cause you wake up and you're like "oh, people are already doing things and I'm waking up at eleven." I think it does something, I mean...

THERAPIST: It's probably just being hard on yourself.

CLIENT: Yeah exactly. Like I'll go get a coffee, and I'm like "oh people are already having lunch and I'm getting a coffee," you know? Where as a few of my friends who have that schedule, they just laugh, they're like, you know, like I'll say that and they'll be like "dude, I do that every day, I get like my breakfast at Dunkin at like twelve thirty" you know? [00:06:52] I think it's just a matter of your background, you know, because I haven't' allowed myself, just like in other parts of my life where I've just not allowed myself to be, you know, so that's always...Oh and how am I forgetting this? And that's my, even my dad I think, I don't remember as much but I know for a fact my mom, it really would bother her when I would sleep later.

THERAPIST: Oh really?

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. I think my dad too, because they're just not that kind of people. So it would just, I think they didn't get why I was...and even now like my mom sometimes she'll be like "you know, I hope you're not staying up late, it's not good to stay up late." It's very, they're very much more regimented that way, you know? So I think, I think I've felt guilty, you know? Especially in the past where I like didn't have a nine to five job, making money and it just adds to the guilt you know?

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah. And it makes it hard to kind of figure out is it better for you or is it just your guilt?

CLIENT: Right, right, right. I think I'm getting to the place where, I'm like I don't know if it is better for me but I know it's not so bad. I think that's splitting the difference, you know?

THERAPIST: Right, right.

CLIENT: Would it be better to go to bed at like twelve instead of four? Yeah, I mean probably, you know? But at the same time, so what, in some ways. I mean as long as I'm sleeping. [00:08:16] As long as I'm not up at like four in the morning having panic attacks and you know? In other words as long as I'm not staying up because of a problem which I'm not, you know, I like to read, I like to, I kind of get into a zone, you know?

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: I do a lot of e-mailing at those hours, like I kind of get organized at those hours, I just, I don't know, it's just peaceful, you know, it's just quiet and I kind of enjoy that, you know? But, yeah.

THERAPIST: Wait, if it's functional time, it's very different than if it's staying up because...

CLIENT: Like in the past, where was, yeah, in the past where was because I'm dreading the morning or the next day so I'm just gonna stay up, you know? But it's not like that now because I usually look forward to that. I have a great schedule and people leave me alone, so yeah.

THERAPIST: So is it not working for you in any way?

CLIENT: What?

THERAPIST: It doesn't feel like there's a problem with it.

CLIENT: That's why I'm bringing it up. Yeah, like I feel like I'm kind of making, possibly making, because of...

THERAPIST: History?

CLIENT: Still feeling kind of like maybe I'm being lazy or maybe I'm...you know?

THERAPIST: But there aren't' any problems you kind of actuate (ph)? It's not that you're not getting your work done or?

CLIENT: No, no, no. [00:09:39]

THERAPIST: Or you're tired the whole day?

CLIENT: No, no. Well the tired the whole day, that used to happen even if I woke up early and I think that is related to other things. I think that's related to if I've been drinking more than usual that week, you know what I mean? If I haven't been exercising...I mean, in the past I've been told that I've like very mild sleep apnea.

THERAPIST: So that...

CLIENT: I don't' know if there's some nights that acts up or something, I don't know. But, yeah. I think what it is, is I think intellectually, like even though now I'm like "oh yeah, right now I'm working on my music so I don't feel that bad." I think it's like anything else. Like right now I know that up here, but I don't completely feel it yet, you now what I mean? I'm still like, ah...you know what I mean? So...(pause)

THERAPIST: I guess I, I still feel like I'm sitting on a fence, thinking about this with you, that it feels like there could be elements of it, could be, I don't know if there are, that are related to, you know when we were talking about food, just even....The deficits in good, basic body self-care, you're trying not having a cup of coffee and then a pastry and then...was it tuna fish and pita bread and olives or something at night? (laughs) [00:11:18] Something like that?

CLIENT: Lately I've been doing more pb & j.

THERAPIST: Which is a little more...

CLIENT: That's better.

THERAPIST: A little more nutrition?

CLIENT: On oat bread, natural peanut butter, it's not bad. Milk so you get a little...

THERAPIST: Just even that is an example of actually, that's not a place where we want to work on being less hard on you, as much as like, you need the nutrition.

CLIENT: No, I agree.

THERAPIST: There's something, like even just basic self-care gets hard, so sleep could be the same thing, like are there ways it's hard to take care of your sleep needs too, like nutrition needs or is this related to this is just you, as an artist and it is an alternative lifestyle but it works for you and how much are you hard on yourself because it's not what your parents were or the only thing they could deem...

CLIENT: Right, right. It's not just parents...most people aren't, right?

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: So it's weird....

THERAPIST: On average...

CLIENT: You know, so if you say someone (ph), like "oh that must be nice," you know what I mean? Like there's this thing of like, you know, I mean even working from home which a lot of people do now, it's like "oh that must be nice." Well, yeah it is nice but don't make it sound like I'm, you know, partying all day or something, I mean I've worked hard and I've got this job and so "go fuck yourself." You know what I mean? There's such a thing in this country if you're not up at fucking the crack of dawn working to the nub that somehow you're getting off easy or something, like I just hate that, you know? [00:12:43] Like in Europe, that's one thing I loved, I didn't even know what the fuck these people, there were all these people everywhere and it is kind of odd coming from here but, I loved it. I was like, I don't know, there's somehow people in cafe, and it's not the Square, I mean here it makes sense but, like, you know, outside of those city center's there were just people, you know? And no one cares, like people are just out living their lives and I don't know...So I'm not trying to generalize or make it like a black and white, it's you know, but...I do think I carry a lot of, it's not a very immigrant type thing, you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah.

CLIENT: You're supposed to constantly be thinking about how to make more money, you know? I mean, I don't know if I told you but recently, like especially with my uncle, not my blood uncle, but my aunt who passed away, her husband. Nice guy, become much more of a softie over the years and all that, but man he's become so, like every thing is about money. He'll just say it. He'll be like "yes, oh you have a good job, good for you, good this country is about money." Like he's become very (laughs), it's kind of cute, like he's not being an asshole about it, and at least he's being honest, you know?

THERAPIST: (Laughs)

CLIENT: But that's their thinking, you know, they all, I think at the end of the day, they're like "look, why are you in this country?" We're here just to fucking make money. This is not, and they're right. In that way they're right. It's not a country really for artists, I mean, not anymore really, like it's just a country where you fucking try to bank as much as you can (laughs). [00:14:10] I can see that point of view but it's very extreme, you know? Or it's, I mean, they don't have this capacity (ph), well that's how I feel, but Tricia doesn't so who cares? Good for her, you know? They don't have that understanding, so like you're, Tricia's a chump, she clearly doesn't understand what this country's about.

THERAPIST: There's not the space (ph), you know, there's a different priority?

CLIENT: There can't be other people doing other things, yeah. They don't understand that.

THERAPIST: They don't know better or...?

CLIENT: I think like, for example, they, I think it was kind of like the thing with the Kickstarter (ph), my mom initially just didn't understand, and I'm like why would people just give money, like why? You know what I mean? She, it's not that she doesn't believe in music, her ideas are you have music and you become like a pop star and people pay you lots of money to give concerts. There isn't, for them there isn't this...or like how's it possible that people put up choruses on YouTube and they just tell you how to do things, like, you know what I mean? [00:15:14]

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: That's all new to them, they don't understand like why would people go out of their way, they don't understand that which is sad, you know? But it's like it's very genuine, they just don't get it (laughs). Like why would Tricia do a fifteen part thing on YouTube about anxiety? And what, but she's a doctor, so she's getting paid or...?

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: You know, there's no like sense of, no Tricia is trying to help, let's say people that can't come to see her, you know? They don't get that.

THERAPIST: It's such a, when people look down (ph), it's such a thing to say to you, why would someone want to help you....

CLIENT: She never worded it like that

THERAPIST: I know.

CLIENT: But, but yeah. That was a basic principal, like yeah, how is this working, so that people that don't even know you are just giving you money? Like, what? She didn't understand, I mean she eventually got it and even she was like "wow this..." She thought Kickstarter was like my website, like that I made it, you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Uh huh, uh huh.

CLIENT: I was like, I showed her all these other projects, she was like "what?" She was blown away, you know? [00:16:29]

THERAPIST: It's a place where there's such a gap...

CLIENT: Yeah and some of that might not so much be, I mean I think I'd feel that way too if I was seventy. I mean things have changed so much that I think some of it just is a major... I mean even between me and someone who's twenty...

THERAPIST: Of course.

CLIENT: Right, I mean, tech....

THERAPIST: You probably will feel that way one day.

CLIENT: Exactly, yeah. Technology is just, it's gotten ridiculous, you know? So some of it is that but I think some of it definitely is like, because I think an American person that age would be like "oh how clever," you know what I mean? There wouldn't be that like, "why are they giving you money," you know what I mean? They'd just be like "oh, how strange there's this awesome new technology," you know, I think that would be a typical American response, whereas for them it's not just a technology but....

THERAPIST: Culture also?

CLIENT: Culturally this altruistic, what people are just coming together to...because they want to help each other? It's, you know. [00:17:35] Which is awful for me but I can under...you know? If you come from, Stalinist, from living under Stalin, that's, I'd feel that way too, you know? People are snitching on each other, people are, you know, everyone's' paranoid, people you know...

THERAPIST: It just doesn't fit in to...

CLIENT: No

THERAPIST: ...our world? That people would just help each other.

CLIENT: Yeah. I was watching some documentaries actually on Stalin, like I'm fascinated by all that shit and even, like I was, that's...I was watching, I was like "that is crazy, these people that I know, my family, lived there." I was like "how is this the same world?" you know what I mean? Like how are they this...

THERAPIST: It's almost not...

CLIENT: It doesn't make any fucking sense how that's possible that my mom who's not that old, remembers like German P.O.W.'s, she remembers people getting dragged off in the middle of the night, like that's, I don't comprehend that, you know? [00:18:38] So I think in that way they can't comprehend the present in a way, I guess, you know? It doesn't excuse how hard it was for me but...(pause) [00:19:38]

THERAPIST: Just layers and layers and layers of gap...

CLIENT: Mm hm.

THERAPIST: You're fleshing out all different kinds of reasons you feel so apart...

CLIENT: Yeah. Which is very helpful because it makes me feel more like, you know, it kind of extricates me more, like there's more of a...

THERAPIST: It's very lonely again, it's back to...

CLIENT: It doesn't feel so lonely anymore though, in a way. It feels alone but not lonely, you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Uh huh.

CLIENT: And you couldn't make sense of that because a lot of people are alone, right, a lot of people lose their parents, they're on their own, they're... or they have their family but they're estranged or...like I couldn't wrap my head around that, you know what I mean? And also because mine isn't even that bad. Like if I can feel better about just myself then I don't even have that kind of family, I can be with my family, I can, you know, there are people that care, you know what I mean? It's just more this stuff that I've been trying to work out, you know what I mean? Like it's...

THERAPIST: When you say "it extricates me" what...(inaudible)

CLIENT: I just mean that I don't feel so, it's not like I'm choking on their shit, you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah.

CLIENT: Now I can be like "oh you know what, this..."

THERAPIST: No wondering... (ph)

CLIENT: Yeah it's like, on a gut level, like I'm being more like, you now this really a shitty, it's been hard, but just look at how surreal I mean, no wonder, right, it's just...[00:21:08] It's like we're a universe apart so, then it makes it like, okay as much as things hurt or...it wasn't intentional. It doesn't make it any better and it doesn't excuse it but it helps.

THERAPIST: It's not personal though.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what it is.

THERAPIST: It's not a personally rejected loneliness.

CLIENT: And it reminds me that it wasn't like they were just taking me and saying "how can we fuck him?" They did it to everybody. They would make comments about people, that's just the way they are, you know? So they'd do it to each other. My aunt does my grandmother, she looks old, but she's old, she's 89. Yeah so it just helps me to bring it back down to earth so it's not some kind of mythic, they're fucking out to get me or some shit, or I'm doomed or it's all about me or it's not. They do this and they're doing it to themselves.[00:22:11] If you're doing this to other people, if you're like "oh look at Tricia's shoes" or whatever, who knows what you're saying to yourself, you know what I mean? Especially for my mom, like on the women's side, my uncle maybe not so much but if they're constantly critiquing other women or other people than who knows what they're saying...

THERAPIST: About themselves...

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. So in that way, now I can just do, I can focus on my work, you know, then it becomes more like what a lot of people have which is kind of a shitty past that they carry around with them but it's not the dominating clusterfuck in their life.

THERAPIST: (inaudible)[00:23:07]

CLIENT: Okay no problem. Sorry I was late.

THERAPIST: No...I understand.

CLIENT: Three times?

THERAPIST: Tomorrow we're doing 10:40?

CLIENT: 10:40?

THERAPIST: Going to the earlier time, 10:40 just tomorrow and then after that 11:30 on Friday's until March 1st.

CLIENT: Right, got it.

THERAPIST: Does that sound okay?

CLIENT: That's totally fine. So 10:40 tomorrow?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I'll put that in my phone. Thanks a lot Tricia.

THERAPIST: Alright. See you tomorrow morning.

CLIENT: Okay. (laughs both)

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