TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: Jesus, I got here, like, at 12:25.

THERAPIST: Huh.

CLIENT: Which is just crazy. I could I had to park -

THERAPIST: Just looking for parking?

CLIENT: I had to park way up almost to the hospital.

THERAPIST: Oh, my gosh.

CLIENT: Sad. Anyway. That's okay. It was good to get some air. I have a cold. (pause) Man. (pause) I'm doing pretty good.

THERAPIST: Yeah?

CLIENT: Pretty good overall, yeah. Things are things are going pretty good. (pause) Yeah, I don't know. I've been really taking care of stuff. I, I told my mom to give me her credit card bill and her electric bill. I'm going to pay those for her. [00:01:02]

So that's good. (pause) And, uh, yeah, I don't know. Yeah, it's been pretty I was thinking yesterday, I think I'm slowly trying to get acclimated to the fact that this is my life. It's not I think in the past I was always edgy or anxious, and one of the reasons was because I was expecting things all the time, like some big change or some big do you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: But now that I don't, it just makes it a lot easier. It's like, all right, well, it's not so bad. I'm just doing my thing. (pause) So... [00:02:07]

THERAPIST: You were saying you just now feel good enough.

CLIENT: Yeah, or that, yeah, that everything was too my life was too mediocre, or yeah, that I should be doing this or doing that. There's always should, but a lot of that I think was tied into more of a fantasy, that's not I mean you should do things that you want to do, but if you're not doing them, (a) you shouldn't beat yourself up about it, but (b), you have to question whether those things you're thinking about are realistic or be you know what I mean? Because really if you think about it, I am doing what I mean, I am. [00:02:59]

I always wanted to be a musician or a song that's what I do. It's not about whether millions of people know that I'm a songwriter, you know what I mean. That was the disconnect. It was that the only way you're really a songwriter and can feel good about it is if you're famous. So now it's just like, it's (pause) it's just very kind of immature view, but... (pause 3:30 to 3:58) Yeah. [00:04:01]

I hate being sick, though. And now I, I'm gonna cancel practice today, which I hate, because I hate when other people I hate when we can't be consistent, but it's almost Christmas. I don't want to, do you know what I mean? I don't want to get worse. I just want to it's not worth it. We don't have a show coming up anyways, so it's but I just, I hate that lack of consistency, but...

THERAPIST: Just when you've been being so consistent.

CLIENT: Yeah, like I, yeah, I've never, I've never liked having a cold. It's always it's a pet peeve. I mean for everybody, it's a pet peeve, but just...

THERAPIST: Where does it take you in your mind, having a cold? What does that mean?

CLIENT: It's just that feeling of like I don't know. [00:05:00]

It's just not being able to I think because it makes you slow down and sluggish, and woozy, and you end up having to stay in, and I don't know. It's just kind of I mean it doesn't really take me anywhere. It's just kind of just frustrating, I think, just like it is for a lot of people, but (pause) yeah.

I've been seeing a lot of crazy dreams, though, but I haven't been writing them down the last few times. (pause)

THERAPIST: What do you remember about them?

CLIENT: All I know is that well, there was a really good one of, I think like, Monday or Tuesday. And I didn't write it down. It was really detailed and whatever. [00:05:59]

The only thing I remember from yesterday last night is I was with some people and we heard a song, and no one knew what it was, a weird version of some song, and no one knew what it was. And it was and I got it. It was John Lennon wait, that would be weird. Was it "Working Club" I think it was "Mother." Do you know the song "Mother" by John Lennon?

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: I think it was that. Either that or "Working Class Hero." I don't know. Those are two great songs, but it was one of them. I think it was "Mother." That would be weird if it was, but it wasn't a bad dream or anything. I was just like, yeah, that's what it is. (laughing)

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

CLIENT: It was some weird version, I don't know. Like drum machines.

THERAPIST: Huh. And in the dream, you recognized it, one of those.

CLIENT: Yeah. People were having trouble recognizing it and, yeah. [00:07:03]

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 07:10) of your mother.

CLIENT: I don't know if it's because I mean, he died it was his anniversary a few weeks ago when he was shot, so I remember I posted something on Facebook. And I watched some videos when he but (pause) -

THERAPIST: That's maybe a piece of why he got in.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: That the particular sequence of why the unrecognizable song that then you recognize, and why it's "Mother."

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: Or "Working Class Hero."

CLIENT: Right, yeah. Either one, yeah. Yeah, right.

THERAPIST: Or both.

CLIENT: Well, yeah, and I've also been thinking a lot about my grandmother. Yeah, I think there's a lot of maternal stuff, yeah. Yeah. And it's good that it was a good recognition because yeah. [00:08:05]

THERAPIST: It wasn't sounding like it was filled with angst.

CLIENT: No. No, I got to say, I was thinking about this. Not to be morbid, but a lot of people, their parents pass on, and they don't have closure or something or if they had issues in the past but they live far away, or you know what I mean? There's a lot of that. I feel like God forbid whatever, I can be kind of proud that there's some semblance of I made a connection. You know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Yeah. [00:08:49]

CLIENT: That's cool. Just like they're doing with their mom, you know what I mean. They're really taken care of her, and because I really see the change in my mom. Yesterday, she went to a little women's there's an Army in Red Cross. It's the Army and Belief Society. My mom used to be very active in that, so her girlfriends can get her to come back, and so she went to some little dinner and whatever event thing (inaudible at 9:21), so things like that, it's good. So she's been doing more of that. So yeah, she just seems like she's overall trying to have a better attitude, and you know. (pause)

THERAPIST: Maybe it's like finding a mother who you like an admire. A mother...

CLIENT: Yeah, she's my as a person. Yeah, exactly. In the past, just as a person, I was like, I wouldn't even want to be friends with this yeah. Now it's a little more yeah. [00:10:00]

Even I can say that, well, even if we don't get along on everything, at least I give her credit for this, this, and this, yeah. Whereas in the past, I wouldn't have even done that. She was just so annoying. (pause)

THERAPIST: She's more of a whole person in a way, whose -

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: with strengths and weaknesses. Like you're seeing her taking care of her own mother as maybe that's it's good for her.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Maybe you're seeing something you would admire in her instead of just feel like it's only her masochism.

CLIENT: Right, right. Right.

THERAPIST: It's a more complex view.

CLIENT: Right, right.

THERAPIST: Of just the person.

CLIENT: I'm sorry, Tricia. That's so gross.

THERAPIST: What?

CLIENT: Sorry.

THERAPIST: Why do you apologize?

CLIENT: Because I hate when people blow their nose or whatever. [00:11:01]

THERAPIST: You do?

CLIENT: Oh, it's nasty. I think that's the other thing. I'm such a I'm not a germaphobe, but I do get annoyed if people are out in public wheezing and cough like, you're at Starbucks and it's like so maybe it's all the years when I wasn't driving and I was on the tea. And I'd had forgotten how it's a Petri dish of fucking nastiness, and people are rude, and they fucking just sneeze on you and shit. It's disgusting.

THERAPIST: So it's the germ spread?

CLIENT: Well, the whole thing. I just well I mean I'm a little bit Howard Hughes-y about this kind of shit. I feel like there's definitely something I never used to always get a cold, but now every winter. I mean it's not it's not a big deal, other people get way sicker, but I find that every single winter, I get a few of these, where I can kind of walk it off, but it that didn't used to happen, and I feel like more and more, like, more of my friends get sick. I don't know, I just feel like every year, it lasts longer. The time when people are sick, and I don't know. [00:12:14]

I was talking to a few friends the other day. They were like, no, that's definitely true. I was like, I don't know, maybe we're just getting older, or I I don't know. But one of them was like, no, no. I went to the doctor and she said that there's definitely -

THERAPIST: That as you get older, you can get more colds?

CLIENT: No, that there's a trend of either it's climate change or there's something going on where there's more little infections and little bugs and not dangerous stuff, but that more and more or no, I guess the doctor said more and more people are getting these things and then not, like, they won't really go away. It kind of goes away and then it comes back a week later, and I don't know, but anyway. But yeah, I know, I just, I've always been a little bit annoyed by either stay home or just you've got to be really polite. You've got to cover your fucking mouth. I don't know. You know, just shit like that, it's annoying. [00:13:10]

THERAPIST: That's funny I noticed how much of the face you made of what you're apologizing for. It's like the germ side of it versus when you say cover your mouth. That could be germs or that could be it's rude. Or is it mucous?

CLIENT: It's both.

THERAPIST: Is it saliva?

CLIENT: Yeah, it's both.

THERAPIST: Is it something about that part of -

CLIENT: It's both.

THERAPIST: bodily fluids.

CLIENT: Yeah, it's both, yeah. I'm disgusted by all that shit. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I'm like we're, my whole family's very clean. Everything's and I like that. I'm like bathrooms, kitchens, that shit has to be gah. So yeah, part of it's just the actual stuff, but yeah, part of it's just I just it amazes me when people I mean it amazes me in general that people are generally not more polite, but it when you're fucking sick, it's just like (pause) But... (pause from 14:25 to 15:05)

THERAPIST: How about when you were sick as a kid?

CLIENT: About?

THERAPIST: Yeah. What do you remember about it?

CLIENT: Nothing major. I mean, I was always taken care of and stuff. I mean it was I'm obviously the smothering would get amped up when I was sick. Ah, the one thing, yeah, the one thing I've I never liked is they always they still do it. It, I never told my mom that I have a cold, because I just, you know, but if I did, the first thing not the first thing but eventually she would say, "How did this happen?" Yeah, they had this whole thing about like, "Flu? How did you get" it's the funniest thing, yeah. [00:15:56]

It's the typical as if we live in a bubble, and we were invaded by so weird. She's a little bit better about it now. In the past, I've been like, "It's a cold, Mom." You're out in the world, it's just a cold. She's like, "Oh, yeah, it'll go away." And then she'll be like, "Yeah, no, it'll be fine," but initially there's this, like, "Oh, my god, it's going to"...

THERAPIST: It's kind of paranoid.

CLIENT: Yeah. Yep.

THERAPIST: Do you know oh, yeah, it'll go away. It's like -

CLIENT: That's like -

THERAPIST: of course it will. Why would it -

CLIENT: (Overlapping voices).

THERAPIST: you have to say that?

CLIENT: I know, exactly. Exactly, exactly, exactly.

THERAPIST: Just anxiety.

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:15:56]

Well, they have a lot of that around simple things that you would never think of. For example, like eating or food. My mom has this select she'll be like, "Have some oranges," and I'll say something like, I'll either say I have no, no, no. She'll say something like have something like that I don't really like, like a I don't know. There's not that much I don't like, but like cilantro. All right, let's say they're a big that's a big Russian thing. They just have a big fucking plate of fresh cilantro. They eat it with -

THERAPIST: They just eat it plain.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Huh.

CLIENT: Same with like mint and stuff. There's a and I love that, but fucking cilantro, I can't that's a very Russian I can't fucking do that. So and I'll be like, nope, don't want it. And my mom would she'll be like, "Well you haven't really given it a chance." "Nope, nope." I'm like 40 years old, I pretty much know what I like and I don't like and that's one thing that I don't like, and she'll say something like, "Well, you know, it's important. You have to have a little bit of everything." [00:18:00]

That's makes you healthy, have a little bit of everything. It's like it just, it's like why are we having this what are you talking about, you know what I mean. It's like do you I mean it's so childish. I feel like saying, "Well, do you have a Dunkin Donuts coffee with extra cream and one sugar? Do you have a rare, or a medium-rare steak?" Like, I feel like you only want me to have the things you want me to have, but your logic doesn't what the fuck are you talking about. It's just absurd. The whole thing is absurd. It's like, but they have stuff like that, and I think that's a very not just immigrant, but a traumatized immigrant. It's their stuff; eat it while it's here. (pause)

Oh, and she'll say, too, your dad used to hate it too, but then he got used to it over time and then he really liked it. It's like, "I don't give a shit what he got used to. Who cares?" (laughing) [00:19:04]

Yeah, so this is a lot of...

THERAPIST: It's important to her. I wonder what you imagine what's important to her about your eating cilantro or whatever it is.

CLIENT: It's all health. It's all about health.

THERAPIST: It's health.

CLIENT: It's just not it's paranoia. It's so that nothing somehow nothing bad health-wise or you know what I mean. You won't get sick, if you just have a little bit of all these healthy things. So you don't like bananas? Well, it doesn't matter if you're getting your potassium from somewhere else. Bananas, they're just good for you. You should have one a day. Yeah, it's like all these it's just a very it's as if they're covering all their bases because they're so paranoid.

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That makes sense.

CLIENT: Yeah, so (pause) yeah. So that's the thing. When I remember being sick, that's I remember. But on the other hand, I do remember really being taken care of, and those home remedies fucking work. [00:20:04]

I would like if I had I didn't get the flu very often, but I remember a few times when I was little, when I did get it, and when you're little, it's just so shitty. You're kind of sweating and you don't I remember a couple times just either my mom or my grandmother would have a bowl of warm olive oil and a shitload of cayenne and black pepper in there, and they'd just massage it into my chest. Now I don't know if it just felt nice, but I think it helped. I think it helped. No, they're, and that way, I give them like, my grandmother's done you know that thing where they take the class and they burn shit, and they suction?

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: My grandmother knows how to do that, she's done that. Not to me, I've never been, but I have a cousin who always gets bronchitis, and when he was little, she would it's crazy. [00:21:02]

So that stuff is pretty rad, that's pretty awesome that they I do kind of think there's some truth to those kinds of things, you know. Like when my mom or my uncle, some one of them when they were very little in the Soviet Union, they had big time sore throat stuff. My grandmother, at that young age, went, she got some fucking gasoline or kerosene, or whatever the fuck she got, took a stick, put a cotton swab at the end of it, dunked it in the gasoline. Went to their mouth and cleaned out the mucous from their mouth. And their fever broke, and they -

THERAPIST: Huh.

CLIENT: Isn't that crazy? It's just insanity. I mean, not the greatest thing, but that's pretty cool to be that resourceful. So in that way, they are very they're not the type to just throw some Sudafed at you and be like, all right. So I like that. I think there's a lot of truth to that. [00:22:04]

But yeah, over all, it does they just get paranoid about shit. They don't take the flu shot because it's some kind of conspiracy, or it gives people the flu or something like that, I don't know, so I've given up. And maybe they're right, who the fuck knows, I don't know. I've read some weird articles out there. But I mean it all goes back to the more serious, like when my aunt was sick, right. They didn't believe, remember? For a long time, they wouldn't even believe she was really dying. So, and it was like, why is this happening? Where did this come from? So we don't have this in our family, where is this shit like weird shit like that. [00:23:00]

THERAPIST: They didn't believe what did they believe?

CLIENT: They didn't believe any of it.

THERAPIST: The doctor's lying?

CLIENT: For a while they thought that it wasn't really cancer. Then they thought, "Okay, if even if it is," they had all these cockamamie ideas it she got cancer because she's so they're a big they're so stressed and anxious, but their whole theory is that stress and anxiety causes illness. So they're all thinking was my aunt was so stressed and blah, blah, blah that she brought this onto herself. That, or that she didn't really have cancer. The doctors were...

THERAPIST: And that the doctors were lying?

CLIENT: Either lying or it was just their opinion.

THERAPIST: Misdiagnosis.

CLIENT: Yeah, misdiagnosing.

THERAPIST: Yeah, okay.

CLIENT: Then it was that the treatment weren't right. There were better treatments like in Mexico, or fucking Switzerland or some shit, so there was that. So yeah, there was just a lot of stuff. [00:24:00]

I'm the next (ph) to call Germany at 3:00 in the morning talking to this doctor and that doctor that they heard of who cures these eh. Yeah, my uncle borrowed like $10 grand from my grandfather not her husband, to take her down South to some fucking clinic thing to I don't know. But it was just this whole and God forbid, I mean, it was just it's a desperation thing. I can kind of understand, but they definitely went overboard.

THERAPIST: Yeah. What kind of cancer was -

CLIENT: Multiple myeloma. Blood.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Same with the diabetes, my uncle. It's like, oh, it's because I mean, yes, I mean and I keep trying to tell them, it's like if that was the case, I don't know, like 90 percent of the world -

THERAPIST: You'd already be dead. [00:24:58]

CLIENT: Yeah, 90 percent of the world would just drop dead. And then of course, again, when I explain it, they're like, well, yes, that's true. I'll be like, why do little children get I mean, don't let's not go down this morbid avenue, but you're I'm like, you guys are so nuts. I have to spell it out for you. And then they're like, yes, you have to no, the boy's right. (laughing) My grandmother would be like, the boy is right. It's like, dude, get a billion opinions. Go for it, I understand, but don't try to it's like saying, why did that guy kill all those children? I don't know. There's no answer. There's no one answer. But even with my dad, my mom is, "Your dad, nothing. Nothing was wrong with your dad. It was that company, all those poisons in that factory," blah, blah, blah. Oh, maybe, but that's not the only reason. It can't be. He was already hospitalized ten years before. [00:26:00]

I mean, they just I think it's that they just cannot accept that we're all going to die. I think on some level, they just can't accept that. I think that's what I mean, look at my aunt. She hasn't fucking been here. I mean, my mom at least has some sense of something. She's but she's more like my grandfather. Say even if she doesn't want to believe it, she's stoic enough to just at the end of the day, deal with it. But my aunt, and it just there's definitely something in them that doesn't deal with age, death, illness, reality. I don't know (ph).

THERAPIST: This a particular set of ways of not dealing with it. Lots of people don't deal with death [00:27:04]

CLIENT: Yeah, everyone yeah. Everyone has their own way of being in denial.

THERAPIST: If it's alcohol at night -

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

THERAPIST: You name it, it's -

CLIENT: Being overly happy and not talking about it, yeah. Yeah. Their, yeah, their way is almost, I mean, I wish they in some ways, I wish they would just ignore it and just be happy all the time. I prefer that almost. But yeah, their way is they almost wallow in it, you know, why does this happen. It's a can ringing constantly, and then going from one extreme to the other. Either it's doomsday or if you eat enough cilantro, nothing bad will happen. It's just...

THERAPIST: What I was saying about is it's like a combination of both telling yourself there are things in your control that are not in your control, that actually in reality are not, like getting cancer.

CLIENT: Yes. [00:27:59]

THERAPIST: There are things that cause cancer, but stress doesn't cause cancer, mostly.

CLIENT: Yeah, and at the end -

THERAPIST: We can make it worse.

CLIENT: Yeah, exactly. And at the end of the day, I think things like that, it's hard to say that one thing caused it. I think it's very rare to say that I mean you could be working in asbestos all day long. Probably that's a big reason why you got whatever that came about, but I think there are people that work in asbestos that don't get (inaudible at 28:22).

THERAPIST: That don't get cancer. And there are people who are going to get that same cancer who don't ever touch a -

CLIENT: Are smoking.

THERAPIST: asbestos.

CLIENT: Right?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: People that smoke their whole fucking my aunt, she's like 80-something. My dad's sister, perfectly fine. I mean, not perfectly fine, but she's fucking 80. She's alive and she's so it's a very this is something a kid could follow that kind of logic. I mean, it's just -

THERAPIST: Yeah. But you get these extremes of either things are in your control that probably really aren't, like eating cilantro is not going to probably prevent you from -

CLIENT: Right. [00:28:56]

THERAPIST: getting cancer, if that's what you're going to die of.

CLIENT: Right. Right, right.

THERAPIST: But it's a fantasy that if you do all these things somehow that you could save yourself. And then there are these places where there are things your dad could have done that might have helped, that actually in reality are good things to try to not do.

CLIENT: Well, I mean even a simple thing like cholesterol, right. My mom's cholesterol is 300-something. My mom's a stick. She's very slender, is very healthy. Probably her body is making the cholesterol because she eats healthy, but she eats like a bird, you know what I mean. A little piece of cheese, a little piece of bread, a couple of beans, a tomato. That's great, but her body probably or I mean, I don't know the reason, but I think that happens. If you're not getting enough fats, your body's like, what the fuck, so it just starts making some cholesterol, I think. I don't know. But her, and that's her thing. She's like, "Okay, well, so I need to eat more garlic," and that's all great, but man, 300. I think that's time to get on some medication. Lower it, and then eat your fucking garlic. But even that, they're just and [00:30:06]

THERAPIST: That's a place where there's actually something she could do that -

CLIENT: Very simple.

THERAPIST: It's pretty proven to be quite effective.

CLIENT: That's like saying my knee hurts; I'm going to take some ibuprofen. There's something that helps for that. So -

THERAPIST: But that's the point. These things that are in your control that should, but they don't do, and the things that aren't that they tell you to (inaudible at 30:23).

CLIENT: Oh, no. Or the weird thing the surreal thing is they're selective. She has high cholesterol and there's something with her thyroid a little bit, it's low or something, whatever, and her vitamin D is low. So the doctor prescribed her some kind of so why take that? The same doctor prescribe you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: But wouldn't take the cholesterol.

CLIENT: Bizarre, yeah. It's just, I don't understand. It's so and that's why I've kind of gotten it's much better for me to just be like, eh, whatever, man. You're 70. It's great that you got this far. I mean, so, I don't know. [00:30:58]

But yeah, it's like a very surreal, not surreal. It's like a absurd it's almost like haphazard what they choose to believe, what they my mom takes Advils once in a blue moon. She doesn't like to, but she will. Or she took when she had something done with her teeth a while ago, she took whatever it is, a kind of Percocet, whatever they give you. Well, I don't it's weird. I don't get it. It's like that's a doctor prescribing why is that okay?

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm. Right. (inaudible at 31:33).

CLIENT: And I've even told her. I was like those statins aren't just mushrooms. This shit just comes from mushrooms. It's just, that's all it is, man. I don't know. She's like, "No, there's a Chinese store, I'm going to go there. That guy knows what he's -" he probably does know what he's talking about but it's still weird. You're still, one way or the other, some stranger is going to tell you what to do, and you're going to do it, and I don't care if it's munching on cucumber buns or whatever the fuck. It's just, it's bizarre, man. It is very strange. [00:32:12]

I don't know. But, but then again, what do I know, you know what I mean. When she broke her hip, we're in the hospital, and when she told the doc, the doctor said, "What do you take?" and I said, "My mom doesn't take anything." That was a kind of moment for me. I was like, wow, you know what, man? What do I know? They know what they're doing, you know what I mean. She's a 70-year-old woman that doesn't take one medication, and she's slender and she's vibrant, and her mental faculties are fucking sharp as hell. So, you know what I mean, maybe those beans -

THERAPIST: Could be worse. (laughing)

CLIENT: It could be worse or it and maybe there's I've gone the other extreme, do you know what I mean, because I'm so I don't get the absurdity. But she eats healthy, she does know something of what she's doing, you know what I mean? No coffee, no cigarettes, no booze, no shitty foods. [00:33:10]

THERAPIST: Does she eat healthfully?

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: The way you're describing sounds like -

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. Every fucking day, I would say at least every other day, there's a big bowl of salad, like fresh salad with just vinegar and olive oil, and some garlic in it. There's a big pot of soup. Homemade, everything from scratch. That's pretty much what she eats. Yogurt, just plain yogurt. She makes weird tea. She'll just take cranberries and boil them and drink it. Ginger now, lately she started just putting some ginger in a little bit of boiling water. I mean, she's my mom knows what she's and that way she knows exactly what she's it's really awesome. [00:34:01]

So that's why I'm it's kind of like my grandfather. Once he got to a certain age, I was like, "Dude, have some Twinkies. Just do whatever you want."

THERAPIST: I guess I'm just wondering specifically did she eat enough.

CLIENT: I don't think she eats enough.

THERAPIST: When I ask is she, is she healthy, it sounds like she's almost too healthy.

CLIENT: Exactly. Everything's very healthy, but not enough portions. Yeah.

THERAPIST: And the way you're describing it, she's eats like a bird.

CLIENT: Yeah, she eats like a bird. Yeah, yeah. So but even that, she's good about. Now she goes to Whole Foods. I found these you know those Ensure things?

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: I found the healthy ones at Whole Foods. She gets those, she drinks those. She gives one to my grandma. She eats sometimes she's into she knows that she probably needs to get more volume. And she like once in a while, they'll go to get pizza and get a small cheese. She indulges sometimes, but overall, yeah. She eats very and my grandfather was like that. My grandfather would have one cup of soup, some yogurt. He'd go to Burger King, have his coffee. Maybe a cheeseburger, maybe once in a while. [00:35:17]

But then if we went if we took him out somewhere, then he would get mayo, butter. He loved all that shit, sour cream. But I think that was part of the reason why he lived to I think there's something about not overloading your body with a lot of calories. It's just I I don't know, but... (pause)

THERAPIST: We were talking a little while ago about how not as your own food intake is, and how it just how [00:36:05]

CLIENT: Yeah. Because I'm like, kind of like the opposite in a weird way.

THERAPIST: I mean maybe what you're having is not as nutritious but -

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: both what you're describing for yourself and your mother sounds really kind of restrictive.

CLIENT: But my I will say my mom's actually better in the sense that at least she has her regimen. My mom -

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah. I hear that. I hear that.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. Like in the morning, she has something. At lunch, she has something. Like she'll mine's not mine's a little more -

THERAPIST: Scattered.

CLIENT: a lot later in the day, I get hungry or, you know. But yeah, I mean, yeah, I guess it is kind of similar. Yeah. It is. It is a little bit similar. I mean...

THERAPIST: You don't eat much. From what you were describing to me -

CLIENT: No, I don't.

THERAPIST: It's really -

CLIENT: And actually, I was looking at other than once in a while when I go to McDonalds, maybe a couple suddenly in one week, I'll go twice to McDonalds. Other than that, I was thinking about it, I eat I do eat healthy. [00:37:02]

I mean this isn't that great, but I don't give a fuck. I just like it. We're drinking. This is not great, but I like it. But in terms of food, like yesterday, I just had I made my own tuna fish sandwich on a nice grain bread with sprouts. I had two peanut butter-jelly sandwiches, natural peanut butter, low whatever, sugar jam. I had soup with garlic. No cream, no nothing, and a fucking big salad. It's -

THERAPIST: That's very healthy.

CLIENT: Yeah, overall.

THERAPIST: I mean, and the fact that you say she'd have pizza, she'd indulge.

CLIENT: Yeah. That's not a big deal.

THERAPIST: It makes it like -

CLIENT: I know, I know.

THERAPIST: I mean, that's not a big deal to a lot of people.

CLIENT: No, no. No.

THERAPIST: But it feels like it's really -

CLIENT: Yeah, I was brought up so like no soda. I would only have ginger ale, ‘cause it has the ginger in it.

THERAPIST: Ha.

CLIENT: Wheat bread, never any white bread. Not a lot of red meat. I took cod liver oil every day.

THERAPIST: You did? [00:38:00]

CLIENT: She took, she would fucking give it to me every day. She would make her own I would drink carrot juice every day. She'd fucking make carrot juice. It was actually really good. Or she'd just take water, squeeze a lemon, put some honey, and make me drink it. So it's and I do have that, like I so (pause) but...

THERAPIST: It's really, really health conscious.

CLIENT: Yeah, they're -

THERAPIST: I mean, even for -

CLIENT: They're big time health conscious.

THERAPIST: for that generation?

CLIENT: Yeah, they got in that way, they're like old school. They're if they were in the states, they would be those eccentric pioneer-types who back in ‘62 were vegetarians, and they were. They were. I mean I remember being little in the 70s and my mom had all these books, something about the Garden of Eden, and you know. [00:38:59]

And it had for ulcers, put some fucking cayenne in your bath, or I don't know, and they still have those. And she references them all the time. She'll read about them. She'll I don't know where that came from. My grandfather was that way. My grandmother, not so much, but she would just follow them, you know what I mean. I don't know. I don't know where my aunt, in the 70s, did some crazy vegetarian cleanse for a few months. So...

THERAPIST: It's hard to know if these things actually work or could make you feel like there's more in your control.

CLIENT: Yeah. Probably a combination.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I mean -

THERAPIST: And maybe some. Some does, but at an extreme, you know.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. Well, I think it's like taking vitamins every day, but if you're taking vitamins every day, and then eating a Big Mac every day, I don't know if it's really working or not. Whereas if you take vitamins every day, it might not be a panacea or whatever, but it's probably helping a little bit. [00:40:13]

There's enough evidence that certain vitamins, but yeah. It's like it's a weird I don't know where that drive comes from back then. That is a strange actually, I never thought about that. That is strange because back then, if people smoked, they eat meat, they -

THERAPIST: Especially I would think immigrant. I mean that's I just don't associate I associate that with a kind of settled privilege to even begin thinking about some of those things, so it's just striking.

CLIENT: I think they're smart. I think they maybe they caught on that hey, we were poor and we drank and would smoke, and ate potatoes and turnips, but that was healthy, and they were right. I guess. I don't know where that comes from. I really should ask about that actually. Why are they so it had to come from somewhere. [00:41:03]

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm. It certainly explains how much guilt there is when you say you ate at McDonalds. It's like you're just dripping with guilt to think what it's not that great for you but is it that bad when it happens?

CLIENT: Or even like I refuse I won't buy frozen even if it's at Whole Foods, I don't feel great about that. I just feel like, I don't know, man, like I should just be making this at home, naturally, with just a couple of ingredients, and...

Or if I go out with my friends, I won't finish on purpose, I won't finish my dish. So I'll be like, all right, that's enough. I can finish this but I've had enough. Let's not overdo it. (pause)

THERAPIST: Let's do tomorrow, 11:30?

CLIENT: Tomorrow at 11:30.

THERAPIST: And then one on Friday, so it works?

CLIENT: Okay, sounds good.

THERAPIST: All right.

CLIENT: Thank you, Tricia. Just give me the sterilizer. (laughing)

THERAPIST: (laughing) [00:42:03]

CLIENT: See you tomorrow.

THERAPIST: (inaudible at)

CLIENT: See ya.

THERAPIST: Bye.

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