Client "AP", Session 41: January 07, 2013: Client is uncertain about where his relationship currently stands with his girlfriend. The lack of communication between them right now is making him feel more anxious. trial
TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:
THERAPIST: That's for last week or this week?
CLIENT: Yeah I think Friday I didn't, yeah. How's it going?
THERAPIST: Good.
CLIENT: (thumping) So...it was pretty good. Got the good stuff out of the way. I started exercising. I don't know what, you know, how do these things happen? I have no idea, like, first of all I missed the registration. Did I tell you I was going to run a half marathon?
THERAPIST: You did, you mentioned...
CLIENT: Yeah, of course I missed the deadline to register because I was just kind of putting it off and whatever and I don't even think I looked at the website carefully, you know? I didn't know there were deadlines to register for fucking half marathon But anyway, or subconsciously maybe I was like "oh," maybe my self-conscious was telling me you probably won't be ready to run 13 fucking miles (laughs). Anyway, I don't know what happened. I checked it and for some reason the fact that I had missed the deadline or maybe it was before, I don't even know but I just felt this urge, I don't know what happened, like, I was already kind of wrapping up, I had already gotten those douchey, tight black compression things. I got one of those, whatever, I got myself a little beanie but, so that day I went I got these awesome running shoes that were really affordable like, on sale, these New Balance, they just felt so fucking good. [00:01:47] That was it, I ran outside and then I went to the gym so it's been that was...what's today? Three days ago.
THERAPIST: That's a change.
CLIENT: Yeah it's kind of cool like suddenly...
THERAPIST: You're running outside. I don't think I've heard you to run outside.
CLIENT: I mean when the weather's been nice I have.
THERAPIST: You have?
CLIENT: But I haven't been one of those...yeah, I like running outside but when it's nice, you know? It felt good, it was a little weird with the snow and ice but it did feel good, I mean you warm up fast and it felt very, you know.
THERAPIST: So this was Saturday?
CLIENT: Friday night. Well not night, whatever, evening. Saturday, Sunday...I didn't run outside and go to the gym all, each time, but yeah one time I went to the gym and one time, that first time I ran outside (laughs) and went to the gym.
THERAPIST: So you've been even since that first day?
CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, three in a row. Friday, Saturday, Sunday. [00:02:58]
THERAPIST: It does, like something started to shift even before you checked the deadline because the fact that you are approaching eve the website, do you know what I mean?
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Something already...
CLIENT: I think I just...
THERAPIST: Motivated you?
CLIENT: Something in me is like, I don't' know, just a switch was like, I don't know. Maybe it's just been a good, you know, my three friends are going to run this half marathon. I don't know what happened, something got me thinking about "yeah, that is kind of cool to do something like that," you know? And to be able to do it with friends. They had mentioned too, they're like "oh, you know, we do some long runs, we should do them together. You know, we all live right here. So maybe that sense of...I don't know. Maybe it was just the shoes, I have no idea, they felt so fucking and they look great (laughs). They were like socks, they're so awesome! I don't know, or maybe it's like with Kelly, I've been wanting to get into better....who the fuck knows, I don't know.[00:04:01] I think it's a combination of a lot of things but it just felt good. Then I got asked to be the first person to take part in this new series at the Assyrian library and museum.
THERAPIST: Wow!
CLIENT: I don't know if you know about this place, it's downtown?
THERAPIST: Yeah, I think so.
CLIENT: Yeah and they're doing this new series called "Artists and Conversation". In February I'm going to do that...
THERAPIST: Congratulations.
CLIENT: Yeah, that will be cool.
THERAPIST: That's exciting.
CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, so it's cool and then the third good thing was, which was a weird coincidence, a friend of mine called me....Remember when I did that poetry thing?
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: There was that woman there, was older, was like a well-known poet, whatever. The acquaintance of mine put me on that panel saw that lady Layla, I guess yesterday, and she called me and we were just talking, she's like, "You know, I just wanted to tell you Layla..." she's like you're name came up and Layla said that she had read your book cover to cover and that... She said we were talking about how a lot of poets are kind of posers or, you know, they're just critics trying to be poets, or whatever and I guess this woman Layla was like "Brian's the real deal, that's a real poet." So she was like, "you should call her." [00:05:36] She could be very helpful.
THERAPIST: She had said that to you too, didn't she?
CLIENT: She did, she did. Yeah and I don't know why I didn't pursue it. I never called her. I think now I will. For her to still remember that and say...So yeah. Kelly met Donnie and Lila, Friday night and that was really nice, we had a great time. Then we got home around one thirty in the morning, she saw on her phone that she had all these calls from her brother and text messages and she's like "that's really weird, why..." I guess some of the text messages were "You need to come home right now." So she calls her brother, we had just walked in, she still had her coat on or something. She calls her brother and she starts bawling so it turns out one of her dogs got hit and killed by a car. So it just became this surreal, I mean her knees buckled, it was just unbelievable, you know? [00:06:51] She's like "I'll come home, I'll be right home." So, there's really no problem to report in all this other than....
THERAPIST: Although it sounds like you're (inaudible)
CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I'm trying to, acknowledge that I know I'm being good about, I know it's all in my head. First of all, I mean I couldn't believe I got so, I mean I kind of started crying too. I couldn't...I don't know, it just really broke my heart. She just...
THERAPIST: [To see her hurt?] (ph?)
CLIENT: Oh my god, yeah. And to be honest I've never seen anyone get like that over a pet. Do you know what I mean? You might as well have told her that, god forbid, her son was in the hospital or... I mean, she just...So I was like "Would you like me to drive you home? Are you okay?" She's like "no, no, I'll be okay." She'd be there or whatever. So I walked her out to her car, gave her a kiss and a hug. I told her I loved her. [00:08:13] Just cause, I felt like it.
THERAPIST: That was the first?
CLIENT: Oh, yeah, yeah. But I wouldn't have, if that hadn't happened I don't know...I've gotten over throwing that word around, I don't do that but it just seemed right for that moment. Anyway so she left, I texted to make sure she got home safe, whatever. The next day I texted her to be like "Is there anything I can do? If you feel like having coffee I'll come there." Yesterday I checked in with her, whatever, she was like "thanks babe, I just need to be by myself, sitting on my deck doing some work. I hope you're having a good day," whatever. You're probably already fucking 20 steps ahead of me but my mind is already kind of like "something feels weird." Like why is she...I don't know. I just feel insecure now, like now I feel weird, you know? And also I kind of don't know what to do, did she mean I want to be by myself yesterday in that moment, like should I not check in with her today, you know what I mean? I don't know what...yesterday I felt like, I texted her "I totally understand, I miss you." Because I was at Starbucks I was so jittery on coffee I wrote, I just had a typo, it wasn't a big deal. I was like "Oops, pardon the typo, I'm hopped up on Starsucks," something like that. [00:10:00] That was it, you know. Now I just feel weird, there's a little unusual, she's kind of not getting back to me? Like Saturday too, like she didn't really get back to me.
THERAPIST: Mm hm.
CLIENT: I don't know.
THERAPIST: Until the next day?
CLIENT: Something, well no, I don't remember the sequence of events. I just know there's been long lags between, since this happened Friday. I'm trying to stop myself because I don't want to be a douche, the girl's dog died and she's a huge animal, I mean she has four pets, she's a huge animal, her dad was a vet. She is a big, big pet person. So I'm trying not to make it, it's just, I feel lame, I just...you know?
THERAPIST: It feels like it's a change for her and her communication?
CLIENT: Yeah I just feel like she's being quiet and I don't know.
THERAPIST: So that's all you're responding to...
CLIENT: Yeah, yeah.
THERAPIST: Is the change?
CLIENT: Yeah, yeah.
THERAPIST: It could likely be her just being withdrawn in grief.
CLIENT: Well that would be the only thing. I don't know what else, everything's been great so I have no idea what else it could possibly be, you know what I mean? Everything was awesome. We had a great time at their house. During the week she was like "I miss you". So I think some of it is, as you go along you do have to continually adjust a little bit as you get to know someone better, you know what I mean? [00:11:42] She ain't the most, we text, but she's not the most kind of, I don't want to say communicative, I don't know. She's a little bit, I can't explain it, I don't know. She doesn't throw texts around a lot you know?
THERAPIST: Or wear her heart on her sleeve too much?
CLIENT: Yes, that's what it is! Yeah, yeah, she doesn't wear her heart on her sleeve to much. Maybe I just don't know what to do, like I'm sad but I miss her, I wish I could do something for her but I don't know. It's not like I know her apartment, she lives with her son and her brother, I don't know them yet so...you know what I mean? Part of me was like well I kind of know where she works I could just take flowers or send her flowers but for some reason I feel even weird about that. Probably because I'm fucking traumatized from Samantha telling me she doesn't like surprises at work. On fucking Valentine's Day (laughs). [00:12:52] I don't know what to do.
THERAPIST: Even if there were something, I guess I just want you to walk down that pathway. If who she is, is more emotionally self-protected, maybe then you are, that that could be true and she still wants to be in the relationship.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: Let's say maybe saying "I love you" made her feel anxious cause of her own attachment stuff?
CLIENT: I know, I worried about that. I hope she would get that...
THERAPIST: I'm not even saying it did but even if it did that doesn't have to mean that it's bad...
CLIENT: That she's out of here. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
THERAPIST: Like that's something, that's her stuff.
CLIENT: I know.
THERAPIST: About love, about...
CLIENT: I thought of it too as I was walking back up to my apartment, I was like "Son of a bitch" but I figured she's a smart girl I would think that she would think "that's so sweet", like "I was in such a bad state." [00:14:01] That's what I said, you know?
THERAPIST: Say she's been hurt over and over and over again in her own past so she kind of stays more independent or something like that. That doesn't mean she doesn't love you but this is how she responds to increasing intimacy, like sometimes there are positives....
CLIENT: Yeah. She's, that's what I'm saying, now I feel like, if you're right my girlfriend, who...Oh that's the other thing by the way. I don't know if I talked about this but I kind of floated that out there, like that she's, you know? We're not just dating, she's my girlfriend because I've been very, it's been since October, I mean other people would be calling them their girlfriend two weeks into it. I'm the one also being, not reserved but I just, so maybe we're both being...The funny thing is I think there's absolutely nothing here, I think it's a girl who fucking lost, she was putting pictures of her on Facebook, I mean she's really devastated. [00:15:14]
THERAPIST: Or it might be...
CLIENT: Combination, you know, whatever.
THERAPIST: It could be...
CLIENT: She feels really vulnerable maybe or...
THERAPIST: Yes. It could be if you were farther along in the relationship where it would really save, you might even be annoyed that she'd withdrawn so much when her dog died. That why couldn't she be close to you. Why does that mean she has to not? Do you know what I mean?
CLIENT: Well I think it would've been totally different, if I knew her son, if I'd been to their house, I think she would have been like "yeah, drive me home or can you come with me?" I think, you know what I mean, and I totally understand that. That would be weird to meet her son and brother during a time like that.
THERAPIST: Sure, sure.
CLIENT: I think its 99.9 percent...
THERAPIST: Nothing?
CLIENT: My typical, the commentator, trying to find "oh just because it didn't go like, perfectly, go to your friends house, go home, have sex, be together, wake up in the morning, she kisses you goodbye, it was great." Just because there was wrench in the works that part of me is like "maybe this means something else." The thing I don't know what to do is like do I text her today just to check in? Do I just leave her alone? You know what I mean? Like I don't know what to do.
THERAPIST: What do you feel like doing?
CLIENT: I feel like if she's that sad and that, I feel weird to not to text, I feel weird not to check in but then I feel like if I check in again and she doesn't get back to me again for a long time I'm going to be...I know your dog...[00:17:06]
THERAPIST: And you feel lonely? (ph?)
CLIENT: Yeah I know your dog died but I'm not sure what that has to do with communication.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: I don't know. Part of me is like "don't text her all day until night time." I could just be like "hope your day was okay. I'm thinking about you." I don't know or don't text her. I have no idea. You know what I mean though? It's a weird place to, because if we're at that place then that would be one of "wow, where's Brian, like where's your boyfriend. Didn't he...he didn't touch base with you today to see how you're doing?" I don't know, like I don't know what I'm supposed to do.
THERAPIST: Well, I think also when you're feeling anxious about your own feelings about it, you look to an extra judge to tell you what's the right thing to do. That's some other person's voice saying "Shouldn't your boyfriend be calling you?" But I think what matters is what feels right to you. Or where you stop yourself from doing what feels right to you, why? What's preventing you from being you?
CLIENT: For example it's kind of funny but we don't talk on the phone. Which these days isn't unusual but...[00:18:28]
THERAPIST: But in a relationship it's a little unusual isn't it? You're actually seeing each other?
CLIENT: Not anymore, kind of. I think it would get to the point where yeah you maybe call each other but that's where we are. These days it's just, I think people like to avoid any, yeah, probably intimacy and any possibility of awkwardness or...you know what I mean? When you're still in that honeymoon phase or whatever. If you're talking and suddenly you don't know what to talk about...I hate the phone, I totally, actually understand that. I never know when I should hang up or if I should kind of keep it going or if we're just talking about trivial, the weather. I don't know like the phone sometimes makes people...and I think we're gotten to that point. I don't think it used to be that way but I think over time that's just what's happened. I don't know...There's a part of me, it's weird, there's a part of me that's like "brace yourself in case..."(laughs) It's like totally catastrophizing like...
THERAPIST: In case?
CLIENT: I have no idea. In case this is somehow, like it's those old like "in case this is your fate." This is not supposed to happen, something good like this. So see? Dog dies, sets off a chain reaction, she realizes she's really not that into you, you said you love her that was a mistake...like who knows? I don't know, but it's all this negative, catastrophizing stuff. [00:20:11] On the up side, I guess in a way it's good that I'm able to even think the worst and I'm okay, I guess. I don't know. (pause) It's hard to trust yourself when you have crazy voices, do you know what I mean? That's the problem here. It's always been the problem Like right now, all that's happening here is she doesn't wear her heart on her sleeve as much and she's probably cautious. She has a fucking son and her dog died. She's, you know, she has things to be protective of and she's a girl and she's beautiful. Who knows what the hell kind of relationships. She's been divorced, who knows what kind of...do you know what I mean? So I know that everything's fine probably and yet it's a little tough to feel completely fine. [00:21:27] (pause) Think the best thing to do is not to text her. Just because, you know what, I mean she saw my reaction when we were together, she saw my reaction and how emotional I got, I told her I loved her, I would drive her home, I checked in with her "do you need anything". Maybe it's let her miss me a little bit.
THERAPIST: She knows you're there.
CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, I don't want to...it just sucks that. That's the part of relationships I don't like but it's the necessary...it's not game playing but just you got to...(pause) Anyways, meanwhile the records done and it sounds fucking amazing. It sounds unfuckingbelieveable. It sounds unfuckingbelieveable. We have to tweak, just like minor, minor, like minor but...Oh and this is the other thing. She's going to do the artwork for the record.
THERAPIST: Oh really?
CLIENT: Yeah and now I can't, you know I really need that to get done and she's...you know? I don't know what to do about that because if I say, I feel like I can't bring it up now but I need to do it. [00:23:02] I'm thinking of just having someone else do it but then I don't know. "Look, I just felt like on top of being very busy, you're going through something very difficult, it's not that big..." I don't know.
THERAPIST: Do you have a deadline?
CLIENT: I mean, like yeah, five years ago. I mean we're done let's just fucking finish this fucking thing. The Pixar thing ended in October. It's fine, it's not like people, there's a mutiny or something but I just don't like that. People went out of their way. I understand a little of a delay but come on it should be done. I want to be done. (pause) And also how long do I wait? Like now I don't know what to do. Do I wait until the end of the week and say "oh by the way." Also because she hasn't brought it up so I also feel kind of weird, I mean in some ways I feel like "why the fuck hasn't she mentioned this fucking..." (laughs). This is important. I don't know. She's definitely a little bit not heart on the sleeve as much and she's got a weird combination of super thoughtful and nice but also maybe it's the same thing. Not heart on the sleeve, I don't know. She doesn't seem flighty. She seems like she's on top of her shit. I don't know if it's just that she's so busy and there's so much going on? Maybe, I don't know. (thumping) [00:25:02]
THERAPIST: You'll see how things will unfold in the next few days, like where the pulse of her grief is and the relationship. You could imagine you touching base and saying, just saying "I'm assuming this isn't a good time for you to do this."
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: "Would it make sense for me to move forward with someone else?"
CLIENT: Yeah that's what I was thinking like towards the end of the week just being like "it's totally okay, I totally understand."
THERAPIST: Say "I understand" and to let her say "yeah, that sounds.." you know?
CLIENT: When this kind of thing happens like how, it kind of seems like almost losing a human.
THERAPIST: It sounds like it is for her.
CLIENT: Is that kind of common for people that are very...?
THERAPIST: For people who are, especially dog lovers, they're, I think that's very common. Dogs more than any other pet 'cause they're that much more intelligent and have a longer relationship.
CLIENT: Loyal and all that stuff.
THERAPIST: Yeah. [00:26:02]
CLIENT: What do you do? I kind of don't know what to do. It's like...(pause) I think the other thing is I can't help it but there is a little part of me, it's a small part but there's a part of me that's like "seems kind of weird, it's a dog." I don't mean like get over it but...Yesterday I was like "oh maybe I should get her a copy of A Grief Observed, it's a really good book. But I'm like what am I talking about, maybe I should (laughs). I just don't know what to do.
THERAPIST: So many should, should, shoulds...Maybe I should do this, maybe I should do that.
CLIENT: Ah. What do you mean?
THERAPIST: It's just, it's something and I said hard to find but you think you want to do. Does that make sense?
CLIENT: Yeah because I'm scared, I have an irrational fear that something somehow because her dog died, which now that I say these things out loud makes no fucking sense to me, but somehow because her dog died I've some irrational fear and that she's in super grief, I have some irrational fear that somehow I'm losing her or something.
THERAPIST: That's your fear.
CLIENT: That's what I'm saying. [00:27:33] That's what I'm saying. That sounds insane. That's why the best thing to do is to do nothing.
THERAPIST: (laughs).
CLIENT: (pause, tapping).
THERAPIST: I think I also keep responding to the idea that either your fear is that this somehow this is gonna set off a chain that she's done with the relationship and that the alternative is that it's nothing. You keep saying "I got to keep reminding myself it's nothing, it's nothing, it's nothing." I think there's a lot of room between your worst fear and "it's nothing, it's fine" including that maybe she's responding to this in a way you don't like that bothers you. Like what if this is her stuff getting kicked up because this is a death to her and there's her own anxiety about being abandoned, people leave...I don't know.
CLIENT: No, no, no, you're probably right. I mean it's a dog and she has a child. Who knows what the history is with the dog? Maybe....
THERAPIST: You have no idea.
CLIENT: Yeah dogs, especially if it hit her that hard that means she's had that dog for awhile so maybe they had it when she was married, when her son was a baby...Absolutely, absolutely. And now she's in this weird place because she has me but I don't know her, I can't really be there be there, it would be awkward to...[00:29:13]
THERAPIST: Is she afraid to talk to you about those feelings?
CLIENT: Right, right.
THERAPIST: That has nothing to do with actually that she's happy in the relationship.
CLIENT: Yeah. That's what I mean when I say everything's fine. I don't mean..
THERAPIST: That there's nothing?
CLIENT: Whoop de doo. I just mean that everything's fine in the sense that whatever this irrational fear is, is irrational.
THERAPIST: Yes, it's not that.
CLIENT: That should be crazy. That would be psychotic if your dog dies and you're like "let's see, two plus two equals fifteen so I don't like you anymore." That doesn't make any...I guess the problem is there's still that part of me that like, when these things happen, it's like you said, I start feeling vulnerable, so it's like wait, am I, did I, should I not have texted her? Again, who doesn't fucking text their girlfriend? People would call, you know what I mean? So that's all fine, I just think it's...Yeah, it's all good. [00:30:17]
THERAPIST: What you fear is not sounding like it's happening.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: There might be other things...
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: Minor things starting.
CLIENT: Right, right, which is her stuff. That has nothing to do with our relationship.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: (pause) Meanwhile I went to a, for the first time, I went to a, my mom has these very close friends, these Assyrian ladies, who are actually very distant cousins of my mom's and they're really amazing. They're like sisters to her. But I never really go their house or their family's and for some reason this time I was like "you know, I never do, why not, go with my mom." It was fine. [00:31:24] There were a lot of people there and they were all very excited to see me. It was very nice, they are very lovely people but I noticed what I don't like, I don't really know what I noticed but I just feel like it's hard, I didn't talk much, they really asked me...It was very, these are like simple people, you know what I mean? It just reminded me of why I definitely want, not expand my circle but I want to make sure I don't get stuck with just a couple of friends and then situations like that....Other than my mom I had no reason to be there. They're lovely people but...
THERAPIST: These were your peers, contemporaries? Or they were your mom's generation?
CLIENT: My mom's generation but their, some of their son's were there.
THERAPIST: Okay.
CLIENT: They're very nice but...[00:32:29]
THERAPIST: When you say simple you mean less smart or not sophisticated?
CLIENT: I just mean super, yeah, super conventional, nothing interesting, nothing going on there.
THERAPIST: Not your kind of people?
CLIENT: My kind of people in the sense that they're very sweet and I'm glad my mom has them, I just, you know? I don't know why I thought of that, I just...
THERAPIST: Yeah, I wondered.
CLIENT: I don't know because my mom's always watered herself down. I mean she has to water herself down too with people like that. Those ladies are super awesome but my mom can take people like that out of her pocket intellectually. She's watered, dumbed herself down all these years just because that's what she's had to do. What, are you not gonna have friends? Especially because she hasn't really assimilated so in the Assyrian community, especially for a woman...so yeah. I feel like maybe I haven't been challenging myself enough to expand my circle with more kind of stimulating...I don't do any writer's stuff, you know what I mean? I don't put myself out there. Mostly because that stuff is douchy too, I think I might have to somehow....[00:34:08]
THERAPIST: Even with your other friends...
CLIENT: They're all awesome. A lot of my friends are great but more and more I'm noticing that I just...it's not that I don't want to be friends with them but I think I also need some more stimulating, something else. (pause)
THERAPIST: To be challenged?
CLIENT: Yeah, I feel like in a way I'm dumbing myself down too. I feel like if you challenge yourself with the people you associate with, you're raising you're level up, it challenges you to be better at whatever skills you have, you know what I mean? So I feel like in a way I'm not doing my talents a service by not doing anything, I mean I don' t do a god damn thing, I don't do any readings, I don't....I think I have to start working on that. [00:35:16] (pause)
THERAPIST: Why haven't you, do you know?
CLIENT: I don't know, I have no idea. I mean when they asked me to do this thing at the museum and when I was talking to her and sending my bio I was like "what is going on here?" Like even I was taken aback, I hadn't looked at my bio in awhile. I was like "what the fuck?" (laughs) I should be doing...are you kidding me? I don't know. Or when I was at the museum talking to the curator or whatever, the director, I could hear myself "I feel totally comfortable, I know what the fuck I'm talking about, I'm don't feel any sense of I don't deserve to to be..." I mean, this is a joke, you know? The problem is then I go to poetry readings and I'm like "these fucking assholes." (laughs) They're just pretentious, a lot of the poetry sucks, they're people that think they know everything. And I just feel like I just want to call my friend Matthew and have a beer. It's hard for me to (pause). But that's not an excuse anymore I think. That's like saying I love my job but just because there are a couple of people at work that are annoying me that I'm not going to do this job anymore. That doesn't make sense. [00:36:43]
THERAPIST: Well I also wonder, we were talking about this Friday and Thursday a little bit in other context but the, whenever that word "douchey" comes up, it's on the surface a criticism of these other "assholes" for trying to hard or being too pretentious but I just wonder if there are, it also kind of puts a band-aid over other feelings that could start in that kind of context.
CLIENT: Ultimately the problem, not the problem but what I think it is, is that if you do all those things that means I'll probably do well and that means that I'll have more emotions, you know what I mean? I think the more, the better I've done stuff, it makes me realize how sad I am, like wow, it starts making me feel like shit. I could've been doing this stuff thirty, I mean ten years ago, you know? So I think there's some of that. It's not anymore that "oh I don't deserve to be here." It's more that when I'm there I start feeling a little surreal like I'm comfortable and yet this is so crazy I feel like I should've been doing this for the last fifteen years. I think that...
THERAPIST: That's terribly sad. [00:38:17]
CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. Now of course the other end of that is "Jesus Christ, what the fuck, you're forty, it's not like you're..." (laughs). You know what I mean? Especially in writing terms, that's, you know. So I don't know, I think there's definitely, it's not that these people are all douchey it's just that I think...also fear of, you know, like what if down the road I can't write another book, you know what I mean? Maybe some of that, I don't know.
THERAPIST: Yeah, I mean there could be, it's like you're damned if you do, damned if you don't, you could be yourself a douche? Like what if you're the one where all the sudden one day it's not really feeling true that you have talent or nobody else, you stand up there and they don't think so that day. What if you're one of them which you might even know is highly unlikely but that's there and the alternative is that you do well...
CLIENT: And somehow I don't deserve to do well or you know?
THERAPIST: Or you do and you could've been doing this twenty years ago.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: It's sort of like there's this tremendous amount of grief awaiting you. If it goes well and you're successful that certainly would inhibit...
CLIENT: Yeah, it's like you don't want to deal with...
THERAPIST: Maybe tomorrow?
CLIENT: Yeah. [00:39:45]
THERAPIST: A beer sounds better than all that...
CLIENT: But I think what's happening is cause I've been feeling so much better, so now, like I'm thinking of that stuff here but when I was talking to the director or whatever I didn't really think that stuff, or even if I did it just a passing, I probably wouldn't have done great fifteen years ago, you know what I mean? I was also a different person, shy and kind of whatever. At the end what does that stuff mean anyway? Big whoop de doo, I would've had three books a poetry, in a way, I mean I'm not the type to measure success by those, that's not my thing. I think it's more, the grief's not about that it's more about family not pushing me or that sort of thing.
THERAPIST: Yes, yes.
CLIENT: But that's why it will be great to do this fucking thing cause hopefully they'll come, you know?
THERAPIST: Oh yeah?
CLIENT: Yeah, I'm sure my uncle, I'm sure a number of them will be there. Yeah, yeah, it's not that they're not proud. They'll be there. But it will be nice for them to see, you know?
THERAPIST: To see you get recognition?
CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. Recognition and hear me articulate, you know stuff I have to say that kind of has to do with them and the whole Assyrian community. [00:41:11] (pause)
THERAPIST: It's genuinely exciting.
CLIENT: Yeah, yeah it's pretty exciting. (pause)
THERAPIST: It is a little strange to think of all the things you could've been more actively pursuing if you wanted to? This came about because someone pursued you.
CLIENT: Yeah, it's weird, I know, I know. It's kind of like there's no excuse anymore, it's kind of like the running thing or going to the gym. It's kind of, I think something's starting to finally, in all these areas, it's really...I mean you don't have to deal with people when you send your poems out, you know what I mean? I don't get it, I don't understand. So I think that's all started to give way. [00:42:24] (pause) [00:43:25]
THERAPIST: I don't think I mentioned that Martin Luther King day, did I tell you that...
CLIENT: You said you were taking a day or two.
THERAPIST: It's a Monday.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: And the Tuesday and Friday actually so just...
CLIENT: You said like the 18th or something.
THERAPIST: Yes, 18th and 21st. Oh I did say the dates?
CLIENT: You did, you did.
THERAPIST: Making sure...
CLIENT: So Thursday at 12:50?
THERAPIST: Yes
CLIENT: Cool. Thanks.
THERAPIST: Yeah.
CLIENT: Have a good one.
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