TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: Friday was fine, but since Sunday, it's been a bit of a fucking nightmare. So, oh, man. So you know a few months ago, I don't know when, in November, December, I don't know, I had asked Kelly to do the artwork for the CD, and she said yes.

THERAPIST: Yes. Mm-hmm?

CLIENT: She never brought it I think I told you, she never brought it up.

THERAPIST: Yep, yep, and you didn't know what to do.

CLIENT: So it's like, you know what, I'll yeah. So Friday sorry, I'm a little out of breath. Friday, she came over. I took her out to a really nice dinner, all this stuff. We had a great time. And over dinner, I was like, you know what? By the way, I don't want to inconvenience you about the album art. She was like, "Oh, yeah, yeah." I was like, don't worry about it. I could find someone else to do it. I said, you're doing a lot of stuff, you're busy. [00:00:58]

So she was like, "Well" she was like, "If you can't find anyone else," she was like, "I'd be happy to do it," and I went with it. It kind of hurt my feelings, I was like, what? You didn't bring it up this whole time, and that so you clearly don't want to do it. I don't know. But I went with it, I went with it. We had a great time. I had bought her a pair shoes. Remember I was telling you that stupid website -

THERAPIST: Yes.

CLIENT: Yeah, I had bought I don't know, whatever. The next day she texts me, and she's like, "Hey babe." She's like, "Are you doing anything tomorrow, Sunday?" I'm like not really. She's like, "Well, I want to cook you dinner." I'm like, oh, that's so nice, like it was a really nice gesture. So great, okay. Sunday morning she texts me and she says, "Hey, what was the name of your record again?" So I text her. She's like, "Well, I'm with Erin" her best friend who I met who also went to art school. She said, "I'm with Erin, and I actually have some time now. We're working on something, but we have some time. We're going to do the album art." [00:02:01]

I get super I'm like, Oh, my god. That's so cool, thank you. I feel like all right, she is more thoughtful, or she's thoughtful in the way I'd want her to be. The album art, she wants to cook me dinner, it's nice. So that was at 12:00 or something. I literally got my shit together, I went to Starbucks. I sent them basically I have the photos, I have everything. They just need to be designed a little bit, given some sharpness and they have to fit a template that's for someone that understands that kind of stuff.

They sent me a mock up. I got to Starbucks. Erin was like, "Hey, let us know what you think," exclamation. So I looked at it. It was okay, but I wasn't crazy about it. So now maybe I should've stopped to think here, but I thought I worded it I just said, hey. I said, it looks awesome. I was like, it looks a little 80s-ish, but I was like, that's not a bad thing. [00:03:03]

I was like, I don't know if it fits with what I'm doing or whatever, but I was like, are you guys working is there another I don't know how I said it, but I said what other fonts are you guys working with, because I didn't like the I felt like that was a very balanced I said, hey, it looks awesome. And then I said it looks kind of 80s-ish, which isn't a bad thing. I don't I'm not going to now, I don't know what the fuck happened at this point. All I know is that things since then have been incredibly bizarre. I have not heard from Kelly since Sunday. After I sent that, she sent me a text that said, hm, okay, and I was like, what? [00:03:57]

So then I waited a little bit, and then I was like, you know what, babe? I was like, you guys are the artists. I'm just going to leave it to you. Come up with some stuff, and I'm sure I mean, I was like, I like what you did. I'll see a few options and you guys know what you're doing, smiley face. I, again, being I don't know what else I can say. That was it. They didn't really respond back to that. I waited a little bit, then I sent them an e-mail that said, hey, you know what? This is really growing on me, this cover image. I was like, you know, I was like, peasants like me, it takes a little time to catch up with your aesthetically just to let them know that, look, I'm not being and I mean, one of the texts was I hope you don't think I would as trying to be too critical, and already I'm getting aggravated. I'm like, why am I I feel like I've done something wrong here, and I haven't, and now I feel like I'm clamoring for clarification, and she's being weird. She sends me -

THERAPIST: And she just didn't respond to any of those? [00:04:57]

CLIENT: I don't know what the series of events was, but at one point, I just get an e-mail, one were it says, "Hey, I think I'm going to pass on this. This piece is too loaded." That's all the e-mail said. Now meanwhile, I started thinking, what is it that she's with her girlfriend and it was fine, but maybe the girlfriend all of a sudden was like, I said something kind of critical in my first response, and maybe it was what the hell? Who is this Samantha? We're working on his fucking ex-girlfriend I don't know if that's what happened? I have no fucking idea. All I know is she sent me that, let's see...

THERAPIST: Samantha's in the title?

CLIENT: Yeah, it's called "The Samantha Sessions."

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: And now it'd be one thing if she had no idea. We've been dating four months. I mean she's heard my songs. I'm 99.999 percent sure she saw some of the videos. I'm 100 percent sure. They all say at the end [00:06:00]

THERAPIST: "Samantha Sessions," yeah.

CLIENT: Or the Kickstarter thing. I mean, come on. So okay, so I said, hey, babe, we're sending you a couple of samples. By the way, I didn't get a couple of samples, I got one. Okay. I got the first one, taking a look now. Looks really great so far. Sent some notes for possible tweaking.

THERAPIST: That's what you said?

CLIENT: That's what I said. "Hm, okay." And I said I'm still trying to keep it I said, no? Am I off? Ha, ha, ha. I didn't mean to be critical. "No, no. It's your cover. Maybe just keep it as is." I can't keep it at that's the whole point I need help with. I can't keep it as is because of the resolution. So I said, well, I don't know. I like that you guys played with it like that. How about splitting the difference? How about we " I think maybe our styles are not a fit. It's cool." [00:07:00]

But then she said, "You can check out this site and this site for font ideas." Okay. Then I said, ha, ha, ha. I said, I don't know about that. I just need to take it in. I've been sitting with these damn photos forever. So to all of a sudden see these "I know it's kind of late in the game to change." That's what she wrote. I don't know what that means. So then I said, you know what? I'm going to leave it to you guys for now. I trust you. If I really want to change something, I'll let you know. I will just ask that there's two photos. I would just ask that those two not be altered too much, unless you really think otherwise. I said, you're the artist, smiley face. I just want to feel that it somehow fits the atmosphere of the songs, which I think it does so far. So again, I'm reinforcing their little fucking egos. I just need to absorb letting go of my shitty amateur style. Ha, ha, ha. Just sent the text. [00:07:57]

So now (laughing) this is what I get, "Hey, babe, I think I need to stay in tonight." So clearly, I mean clearly something is I was like, Oh, sad face. What happened? Everything okay? "Nothing happened. Just busy and need time at home to do regular stuff." Nonsense. Clearly she's upset. Something's going on. So I waited a while, and I just said, okay. I said, I was looking forward but I understand.

Now, this was all that was, but then I got this e-mail during this time. It was like, "Hey, I'm going to not do the" whatever. So now I was in full fucking confusion, kind of, panic, and angry. Just fucking annoyed. So I didn't I called my friend Donnie, whatever, and Donnie was like, "Man, maybe this is like a phone conversation." Right?

THERAPIST: Yeah. I don't know how you got this over text. (laughing) [00:08:57]

CLIENT: Agreed. Agreed. Agreed, but guess what's Brian did? So Brian fucking calls her. She doesn't answer. Okay? So I leave a voice-mail, and in my voice-mail, I definitely sounded and of course I felt like a chump after leaving that. Because my other friend, Dave, he was like, "Man, I would've probably done the same, but you probably shouldn't have left a voice-mail." It's because you feel like a chump. I left this totally earnest it's like, babe, I'm totally confused. I said, I was really excited that you decided to work on it. I think it looked great. I was like oh, and then I went through this whole I was like, if it's something about the title of the record or I was like, I just want you to know I wrote these songs a long time ago, and they have and they really don't, it's just a cool title that at the time made sense, and it's a cool title. And I was like, I don't think of anyone when I sing these songs. I'm just proud that they're good pop songs, that's it. It's just music. But even then, I'm feeling like an idiot because I don't know what's [00:10:02]

THERAPIST: You don't know that's why. Yeah.

CLIENT: So I was like, I don't know what's going to, and then I was like, I'm really crazy about you. You mean a lot to me so I don't know. I was like, just call me or something. Never called me. So then I was like, all right, this is last thing I'm going to do. I sent her this text oh, no, I sent her I said, I left you a voice-mail but thought to make sure I'm clear. I'm sad and confused by whatever might be on your mind. I wouldn't have asked for your help if I wasn't in a real bind. I didn't mean to inconvenience you or Erin in anyway, and I'm super appreciative. I was excited, too, because it was looking great. Maybe more importantly, I want you to know this record, the songs, the title are not attached to any one person at all anymore. I wrote them years ago. They're just pop songs and that's all.

I don't know if that's what bothered you or what. I'm super into you. You've somehow gotten into my heart and I would like it to stay that way because this feels right. You mean tons to me. Anyway, not sure what's up but I thought to clarify. It doesn't seem right to have our first misunderstanding be over a stupid record. [00:11:10]

And now, this is the last communication I've gotten from her. "It's totally cool, no worries. And believe me, I understand about processing through work." I don't know what that means. "I normally" -

THERAPIST: Processing through work?

CLIENT: Yeah. "I normally don't work with anyone I'm seeing, so agreeing to do this was my mistake. It seems it's pretty much finished anyway, so just keep it as is. You don't need my input." Like, what the it's totally so the last thing, this is all Sunday. This is the last thing I've I said, okay. I'm still pretty confused, though, and I feel like I hurt your feelings somehow or something. I love the design you guys sent me and was excited, grateful, and relieved that you decided to help. Now I'm back to square one. Those photos aren't set as is. Sorry if asking you was stupid on my part. That's why I brought it up Friday. I sensed that you didn't want to do it. Anyway, I have no idea what happened here, but I think I was being pretty appreciative, open, and psyched, and I was really excited to see you today, and appreciated the sweet gesture of making dinner. I'm a bit baffled, babe." Which I think is a very honest and I'm [00:12:24]

THERAPIST: And even if you're slightly irritated with her -

CLIENT: Yes, irritated, but still showing love.

THERAPIST: it doesn't come across as frustrated.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. Just letting her know that I -

THERAPIST: She's the one acting weird.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. And I have not heard from -

THERAPIST: You're worried it's you?

CLIENT: Oh, no, no, no, no. I'm not worried it's (clears throat) it's a number of things. One, again, I feel like a chump that I even had to write these fucking stupid e-mails. I call her, she doesn't answer the fucking phone, so I feel disrespected. I mean, this is not what the fuck? After all those months of dating, so this is it now? So I feel kind of like a chump a little bit. [00:13:03]

Two, I mean, I'm just incredibly confused. Three, I think deep down what's making me really sad is this is why I'm not trying say I feel doomed, but this was a normal girl. I mean, this is a really nice person who's a nice clearly she has some issues or something, but with all the issues we all have, she's I don't know what else to do. I'm tired. I don't I feel like there's something going on. I'm good with the dating and the hooking up, but anytime something long-term that I really care about you know what I mean? I don't know what else to do. I'm just like something in me is kind of off now, and that's making me really sad and frustrated. [00:13:58]

I don't know why this is happening to me, kind of. I think these texts and that's the sign of a really awesome boyfriend. Someone else would've been like, what the fuck? Other guys would do that, and they would have the right to do that. And all I'm doing is just I was so appreciative. I'm so thankful. Well, you know what? Four fucking months, she's paid for, I think, one thing and those were tickets to John Waters or something. I paid for every I spent $100 that night on dinner. All right? I bought her and I never would bring that up ever, ever, ever, but come on, man, are you kidding me? I just, I don't know.

I'm just really annoyed. I just went, what the? So the one gesture, the one fucking thing, making me dinner, whoop-de-doo. That you finally had this thought to do something for me, you're taking it back over I don't even know what, on top of which, I needed you to help me out of a bind. I wouldn't have fucking asked you if it I don't know. [00:15:00]

It's just I literally don't know what's going on. All I know is this could've been it could've taken a second. They sent me a mockup before I got to fucking Starbucks. I mean this -

THERAPIST: It didn't sound like they slaved over it for -

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: hours.

CLIENT: I had the photos, I have all the texts. I kind of know I have an idea of and it's standard. Send me some fucking options. This is my fucking CD. What? I'm supposed to just kiss your ass because you did it in five minutes and that's it, we're done? I'm totally confused. I'm totally, totally fucking confused. So it's just a number, but ultimately, even more than that, I just feel this deep sense of I kind of give up. I don't know I was born too early, too late, it's always weird timing, I don't know. I can't make one decent long-term dating thing. Not that I can't make it, but somehow it doesn't work. And now [00:16:00]

THERAPIST: Do you think this is over?

CLIENT: Well, here's the thing. Why would I get in touch with this girl now?

THERAPIST: I'm not saying you would.

CLIENT: Yeah, so why would I? So if I don't and she doesn't, then clearly it's over, I guess. Which is going to drive me insane because it's going to be another one of these open-ended, who the fuck knows what happened, she just all the things I used to say in here a month ago, that, oh, she's just going to disappear. Well, that's what's happening.

Or two, if she does get back to me and is like, yeah, I'm sorry I'm haven't now she turned something that was nothing into something, so now it's going to be like, well, okay, I can forgive you, I care about you, but what, I mean, what the fuck?

THERAPIST: Yeah, you need to talk about it.

CLIENT: Yeah. So -

THERAPIST: You might even need to hear her apologize.

CLIENT: She absolutely has to apologize. So -

THERAPIST: Because it sounds like she got really, really sensitive all of a sudden, for whatever reasons in her own history, was really wounded by your response, even though your response was very, very tactful. In other words, it sounds like, you know what it's like to be that she's sensitive on the surface, and all of a sudden, took the smallest thing that you said and did what you might have done with it once. [00:17:17]

CLIENT: Okay. Yeah.

THERAPIST: In her own psyche.

CLIENT: I mean I'm will all that.

THERAPIST: Do you know what I mean?

CLIENT: I'm will all that. But again, let's say that was me, right. And let's say I had one of those dark nights or something. Do you think I would do this?

THERAPIST: Yeah, no. I know.

CLIENT: No. I would suck it up, and I would at least text her and be like, I am so sorry about I just got very sensitive or whatever.

THERAPIST: Yeah, now you would.

CLIENT: Well what I'm saying is I'd do it even maybe later that night or the next morning. It's fucking Thursday.

THERAPIST: But she has a different attachment style than you do.

CLIENT: Well yeah.

THERAPIST: She's much more avoidant. When she's hurt, she pulls back and protects herself by pulling away. [00:17:58]

CLIENT: Yeah. Well, my other thing with that is what bothers me is then all those conversations we had were lies. That was the whole thing, right, about this you're an artist, I'm an artist. We're serious about our work, and it's great to support each other, it's great to that's the kind of artist she one thing that would never happen to me is, you could tell me right now that you didn't like my record. It would hurt my feelings, but I wouldn't give a rat's ass. My records really good. So do you know what I mean? I'm sensitive about other you know what I'm saying? But in terms of my art, I don't give a shit if somebody writes a diatribe against me in a magazine. It will hurt my feelings, but you know what, I'm -

THERAPIST: You can still feel good about what you do.

CLIENT: I'm good. I'm good. And you know what, the next it'll just fucking push me to just be better and better, so this is shocking, especially when it's not even her artwork that their it's just album art. It's fucking CD cover. That's bizarre to me. This is a girl that went to a great art school, that teaches there, who's 36. So I don't fucking know. I don't know. [00:19:10]

All I like I said, for me, all it is, is I something in me just feels like, you know what? Maybe it's better though this whole fucking time, I've been fending off three or four other girls that just want to get laid, right. I don't call them back. I don't text them back. I don't because I have a girlfriend who I really, really care about. But you know what? Now I feel like I should just stick to what I do. This is why I don't trust women, and then shit like this happens, and then it's just reinforced, and all my negative feelings about dating, my skepticism about being monogamous long all that shit just gets reinforced. And I know it's all mixed up and extreme or something, but I mean if someone like this, this is going to happen, what the fuck. She's someone who has her shit together. So I don't know. [00:20:12]

Bottom line, if nothing it just really hurts my feelings. I just feel like she so this is what you think of me? Don't you think more of me to know that this is hurtful and to just talk to me, and also to know that I would never try to hurt that I would never that I really care about, that I'm excited I was excited that you were doing it, and because you're talented. I don't know. I just this is what I don't get about this is where I feel like I'm disconnected from the rest of people, that that's someone who is as caring as she is, that's not crossing her mind? Or it is, and still she just refuses to that's just so hurtful. That just makes me feel like, well, what the fuck am I doing? I just keep looking for a nice relationship, and each time, it's just... (pause) [00:21:12]

And of course, my friends who they're right. They're like, "Dude, do not get in touch with her, whatever you do." They're like, "Don't, because you've done everything, and you've done nothing wrong. You reached out to her on the phone. You texted her. You were clear." They're like, "You can't, you're only going to feel shitty if you reach out to her and she doesn't get back to you, or something." They're just like, "You just got to let it be. It's obviously her."

THERAPIST: Yeah. It's hard to imagine how that would actually feel good instead of it coming from her. Her initiating it.

CLIENT: Right, right. The only thing I had thought today, I was like, well, maybe I'll just Saturday or whenever, I'll just be like, listen, I just want to make sure you're okay. But even that, that's just a roundabout way of saying get in touch with me, and I don't want to do that. I don't want to do that. Now the upside of all this is I'm here, I'm not being a puddle on the floor. [00:22:22]

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm. You came in even laughing. I mean, that's what I thought -

CLIENT: Yeah, no. I'm done.

THERAPIST: You weren't -

CLIENT: No, no.

THERAPIST: broken apart.

CLIENT: No, no, no. I'm done. I'm done. To me, it's one of those things I have, those switches that just go off. Something in me just feels that in a roundabout way, I was always right about this. That yeah, I'd want to be in love, I'm a romantic, but you know what? The world is fucked up, and we're all a lot of fucked up people, and unfortunately, even the least fucked up of us does shit like this. So I just need to stick to what I'm doing, try to do my art. Try to and have fun, and now suddenly, I don't feel any I feel kind of liberated in a way. [00:23:16]

I feel like this is what other dudes, not so many, but one or two other dudes have tried to tell me, that, "You know what, man? Women are" and women can say the same about men. I'm just saying because I'm a dude, I'm talking about women. But that, fuck it. Just don't you can never get too overinvested. You just can't, especially if you have other things you care about, and now I feel like that's true.

THERAPIST: You didn't get overinvested, though. You didn't lose this time, yourself, or lose yourself.

CLIENT: No, I didn't, but you know what I mean. But that I'll be very careful to even let it get to this point from now on. I was the one -

THERAPIST: That's sad. [00:23:58]

CLIENT: I don't think it is. I don't think it is. I'm not saying I'm going to be some stone wall. I'm just saying that people have got to prove I kind of let her get away with not proving that much.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm. Maybe that's it, what you're saying, what -

CLIENT: Yeah. I was the one who was like, let's not see other people. I was the one who well, I was the one who gave her another this is the same girl who two years ago, remember we made out and then she disappeared, right. So, and yes, I gave her another chance because she was so apologetic and whatever. But -

THERAPIST: She has a track record already, just in hearing. Yeah.

CLIENT: All I'm saying is from now on, it's going to be about good company, and fun. Okay? And then that person needs to prove to me that it should be more than that. And I'm not saying this in some kind of clearly, I know that tomorrow if I meet some attractive girl who I'm into, I'm going to be into her. But I'm just saying just like I did with her, I'm going to be just a little bit more... [00:25:08]

THERAPIST: So you're talking about it right now as though you're going to pull back and self-protect, and play the game even more, which I get it from that angle.

CLIENT: It's not even playing the game to me. I think it's just like I'll hang out with you, you're awesome. I am into you, but until you make some gesture, until you really somehow show me that this is more than just dating, or whatever, then that's cool. I don't need you know what I mean? What I'm saying is I got to shift my focus, which I have been doing steadily for, what, a few years now. It's just really got to go to my art. It's really got to go I'm not being doom and gloom, but I'm 40. These are the years where I can really make some great stuff. [00:26:04]

So I don't think I'm being extreme in any way. I'm totally it'd be great to meet someone amazing, but I'm not they need to somehow make a gesture, just like I do when I like somebody. That there's a green light, a real green light to take extra steps to be connected to somebody.

THERAPIST: I'm still going to put a different spin on what you're saying, because I hear it coming from that's it, I've been hurt one too many times. From now on, new rules are in place. Another way of saying that, I don't actually hear you today, Brian there are two things going on. You're very hurt, but you also sound angry.

CLIENT: Oh, yeah.

THERAPIST: And I actually think that anger is really important in this experience because there's a part of you, the old part is interpreting this as she's left you. There's a new part, though, that I think goes along side of it saying wait a minute, this is not good enough for me. [00:27:15]

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah.

THERAPIST: I'm actually not this is crazy, this behavior. Even if she were breaking up with you, then have a conversation about it. Say -

CLIENT: Well right.

THERAPIST: that was just I'm too sensitive, I'm just calling to check -

CLIENT: Well, let me tell you the other thing I thought. Let me tell you the other thing I thought because listen, there's no way this is there's going to be no closure on this. I'm not doing that anymore. There's no way. The other thing I thought is I'm going to give this exactly one week, okay. Then the text I'm going to send her or the e-mail I'm going to send her is going to be like, hope you're doing well. I have no idea, literally, no idea what's happened. I think you're really talented, and I think you're amazing, but I can't be with someone who I'm going to break up with her. I can't be with someone who isn't showing me the courtesy, care, and respect to just talk to me. [00:28:09]

THERAPIST: Yes. That you're actually not interested in being in a relationship if someone's going to treat you that way.

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to give her a week, just because I think that's fair. But yeah, come Sunday, it's going to be like, no. You know what? I don't think so.

THERAPIST: And I think that's, again, another way -

CLIENT: Now -

THERAPIST: of looking go ahead.

CLIENT: Well, I was going to say, in a way, it's not the kind of closure I want, but you know what? It is closure. It's kind of what I should've done with Samantha. She doesn't even have to get back to me because the thing we no, no, no. I'm the one who reached out to you, set the tone, and I don't care what you do now because I've broken up with you. So I think that's the way it's going to go because you're absolutely right. That's even that's why I'm saying even if she was super apologetic and showed up at my door, I'm not sure now. I'm tired of being with people like that. [00:29:08]

THERAPIST: I guess that's what I'm the experience of your actually being disappointed in her instead of you're being the one rejected.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, no.

THERAPIST: Do you know what I mean?

CLIENT: That's the thing. I don't want I definitely I don't feel rejected. When I say I feel sad, it's more, it's almost like the sadness of a friendship. It's almost like that's what you think of me? I thought we were tight? I don't feel like suddenly she's not attracted to me. It's not that anymore. It's more like you have issues, and for whatever reason, you don't think enough of this to talk to me.

THERAPIST: How could she have thrown four months of getting close right now, and have it end this way is just weird.

CLIENT: Exactly. Yeah, yeah. [00:30:00]

THERAPIST: And sad.

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah.

THERAPIST: What that meant she's doing inside herself to try to shut it down.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

THERAPIST: I'm sorry.

CLIENT: It's okay. I mean, I'm kind of I mean I'm sorry, too, but I am kind of proud of how I'm handling it. (pause)

THERAPIST: Maybe what you're saying then in a way of thinking about future relationships is if you know more what you deserve, what is good enough for you in a relationship, and carried that with you the whole time, and don't show until shown. Or mutually showing, right?

CLIENT: Right, right, right, right.

THERAPIST: Not as a game, but as a waiting to see [00:31:02]

CLIENT: Just fairness.

THERAPIST: who this person is. And are they good enough for you to show your heart to. Is it really different than oh, I'm just playing a game, but actually you're seeing where this person is and what kind of person they are, and that's going to take some time.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean and there are always little things. I mean it always bothered me that she never really offered to pay for things, or to chip in. And that's a little thing, but that just -

THERAPIST: Not even -

CLIENT: Yeah, reach for your purse.

THERAPIST: saying, "Oh, I'll do it." Just to let you say no.

CLIENT: Or to really say thank you, to really say thank you. I don't know. That's a bummer. (pause) Oh. At dinner, we talked about the phone. I was like, I want to bring this up. And I was like, hey, I was like, by the way, I don't want you to feel I don't know how you feel about the phone, but I don't want you to feel like it's like I'm not calling you, or to kind of put it that way. [00:32:07]

She's like, "Oh, no, no, no." She's like, "Yeah." She's like, "I hope you don't mind." She's like, "I really don't like talking on the phone. I would prefer not to." She's like, "You can call me anytime," she's like, "I just hope it's cool with you, too, that I'm not" -

THERAPIST: That I don't answer? (laughing)

CLIENT: That I don't answer.

THERAPIST: Is that what she means? You can call, but -

CLIENT: Apparently that's what she meant. Ahhh. I will say one other thing, this is and this does make me sad, not sad in like putting myself down. You see, these are the kinds of things that start making me thing, see, this is why I think it'd be nice, in a different kind of world, to find a cool Assyrian chick. Because I'm sorry, this kind of stuff won't other stuff might happen, but Michelle, Samantha, this shit, I don't know what this white girl, suburban, middle class thing is, whatever, but Assyrian chicks don't have that. [00:33:11]

They might have other things, but there is a sense of, I don't know, something. There's a little more sense of maybe it is a little more old fashioned or whatever, but there is a sense of respect and a sense of something. I don't know how to explain it. And I hate to say it, but values or something. I mean I'm the last to talk about values, but because this is a pattern. I mean not that I'm a rocket I think everybody knows this at this point, but when you travel the world, I'm sorry, but this is the kind of shit that's annoying. People just sense this shit. These kind of uppity white people with their bizarre, selfish white people problems, kind of just self-involved, and these pretty chicks where they know they're pretty, and they know they're something. [00:34:10]

And it's not that I'm being empathetic, but it's just so fucking in your own head. It's so in your own head, and the same with dudes, whatever, dudes that are just fucking meatheads, and it's all about sex, or it's all about I don't know, man. That's where I really get torn. Culturally, I feel very torn. I feel like, wow, I'm so open-minded, but I guess I'm more European opened, or I don't know what it is but I don't jive with these values. I don't get these people sometimes. There's something off. I don't know. And that's I'm like maybe that's connected to why I've been wanting to go to Assyria. That's why I love Berlin. I don't know. [00:35:03]

Maybe there's just I mean Julia was fucked up, too, but there was something real, or I don't know how to explain it. There was something earthy about her fucked up-ness, and she was much more willing to talk about it. Actually, she was way more Julia was the one who's just like, "Oh, no, you'll probably leave me." She's like, "I have issues with sex, and people say I'm kind of cold." (laughing) She was very that's weird, but you know what? I appreciate that. That's an adult saying things.

THERAPIST: It's not confusing. It just leaves you it's the aloofness, and drifting off into thin air without an ownership of this is not what's working between the two of this, or this is why I'm bothered by you, or this is why you're bothered by me. Just being grounded about what's [00:36:01]

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. And more and more and more, and this is the issue I have with men and women. I just feel like all of this is about being spoiled. Something about it just smacks of I don't know what. It's like, oh, well. He said something that I didn't no, see, but whatever, and then they just get -

THERAPIST: The next best thing, then.

CLIENT: Yeah, they or they and I'm not trying to trivialize it but what else could it possibly how do you not think to just talk to somebody? That's being a spoiled asshole. So -

THERAPIST: We're going to stop.

CLIENT: Oh, I'm sorry.

THERAPIST: No, that's all right. We'll continue tomorrow.

CLIENT: Okay. What time tomorrow?

THERAPIST: 11:30?

CLIENT: 10:30? 11:30.

THERAPIST: 11:30.

CLIENT: Okay. I brought a check, Tricia, but I, I didn't make it out so -

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: I'll just bring it with me tomorrow or if do you want me just to make it out now?

THERAPIST: You could write it tomorrow.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: That's totally fine. Brian, I just wanted to ask you if I had a later time on Monday, would you -

CLIENT: Yes. [00:37:01]

THERAPIST: You'd rather do later?

CLIENT: Yep.

THERAPIST: Okay. Things are just shuffling around because -

CLIENT: Perfect.

THERAPIST: the semester is starting, and if that's fine -

CLIENT: Awesome.

THERAPIST: I knew that might be preferable if that opened up.

CLIENT: Yep.

END TRANSCRIPT