TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: Thanks.

CLIENT: Yep.

THERAPIST: I don't know if that does that include last week? No? That's just this week's?

CLIENT: Oh, shit. It doesn't I'm sorry.

THERAPIST: It's okay.

CLIENT: I'm sorry.

THERAPIST: Just a reminder.

CLIENT: Monday, I'll bring it Monday. It's stupid.

THERAPIST: There's no worries. No worries. Just reminding you.

CLIENT: So, well, I'm here so that's good. I got an hour's sleep.

THERAPIST: Oh, really?

CLIENT: Yeah, I just didn't sleep. It's okay. It's kind of weird. I don't know. I'm like this I'm not really depressed or whatever. I'm just kind of anxious. But I think a lot of it is still that I'm anxious about good things, so that's good. (pause) [00:01:01]

I mean the only thing that kind of sucks is just what I think you were saying yesterday, like I don't want to go to the other extreme of just going on a shitload of dates again. But it's like I just, I don't know. It's dating. I mean I guess just what everybody goes through, right? I mean it's you want to connect with someone, but then you get tired of it, but then you want to connect with someone, but you're tired. It just is what it is. I don't know.

I put up a very slim, but whatever back down, okay, keep it. I was like, fuck this. I'm not going to sit around, fuck that. So I mean I'm not taking it seriously, but I don't know. It's just weird, so weird. [00:02:10]

THERAPIST: There's a difference maybe between going on a sleeping with people rampage that's kind of retaliation or condemnation somehow.

CLIENT: Yep. Sorry.

THERAPIST: Versus getting through something and (overlapping voices) -

CLIENT: Wanting some -

THERAPIST: Wanting to settle down the next day after (overlapping voices) -

CLIENT: And I think there's something about just company. I mean, I work at home. I live alone. I'm a relatively young guy. I don't like what am I doing? I don't know. [00:02:56]

THERAPIST: And yet in the mix of feelings, lots of different feelings about this relationship maybe coming to a close. And of course there are mixed feelings dating, or what are you looking for, but that's different than it being unconsciously getting back at her, getting back at her -

CLIENT: Yeah, that's the funny -

THERAPIST: or with her.

CLIENT: Yeah, that's the funny thing. There's nothing like that. I don't feel any of that. Yeah.

THERAPIST: Or another way of thinking about is it could've once maybe been a retreat into one pole of your confidence.

CLIENT: Yeah, that's the important thing. That's what I was going to say. When I was on when I got back on with K Stupid, I wasn't like it's just a normal sense of you check out some chicks. Well, why isn't this chick writing me back, whatever, but it's not there's no extreme of oh, I'm going to get all these chicks, or why isn't that one writing me back, and why isn't this one? I just don't care, in a good way. I already have a date for Saturday, whatever. I just don't... [00:04:09]

THERAPIST: Right. Really different than now I'm going to get all of them so that I feel better about myself.

CLIENT: No.

THERAPIST: It doesn't sound like you have to do that right now, and if -

CLIENT: And I don't want to do that right now.

THERAPIST: You might not even want to, right. There's no -

CLIENT: I mean last night, I was like, well, what the fuck? Why am I not sleeping? I mean that's not good that I wasn't sleeping, but I wasn't in a panic about it. I like, you know what, I'm just up watching Fringe. I don't know. I was like, I'm anxious. My mind is just kind of I just don't feel that sleepy. It's not good but I try not to beat myself up for it. I don't know. (pause) [00:05:00]

THERAPIST: Last night, it sounds like you take it all in stride. I still wonder when you say I couldn't sleep, what did you try to?

CLIENT: I was anxious. No, I didn't even try to. My mind was just working.

THERAPIST: So you didn't even put your head on the pillow, lights out?

CLIENT: I had the lights out, but I was just laying in bed.

THERAPIST: The TV was on.

CLIENT: With my laptop.

THERAPIST: Oh, your laptop.

CLIENT: Yeah. I think it's just a way to occupy my mind, and just...

THERAPIST: You always fall asleep with something on, right? No?

CLIENT: No, I've gotten a little bit better at when I feel tired because it's so easy, I'd just fold my laptop, put it on the table, and I'll just lay down.

THERAPIST: Yeah. But you didn't want to try that last night? [00:05:53]

CLIENT: For some reason, yeah, I just I don't know. Now other than mental stuff, I could also have been that I had too much coffee, because I had more than I usually have I'll have this and that's probably it, and I probably won't even finish that. But yesterday, I had three or four cups.

THERAPIST: Oh, wow.

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah.

THERAPIST: Why?

CLIENT: I had one when I came here, right?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah, so -

THERAPIST: And you said [OVERLAPPING VOICES] -

CLIENT: I had half of that. I had half of that. I had a full well, I guess it wasn't really full because it was half hot water, but I had a Starbucks coffee. Then my uncle was at our house that was the other thing. My day wasn't very restful in a way. It was I was here, I was thinking about stuff. My uncle was over and I hadn't seen him in a long time. I hadn't seen my grandmother, then we went to Panera. I had another coffee there, so what is that? Three, right. That, I rushed from there to practice, and I got one of these, and I drank the whole thing. [00:07:04]

THERAPIST: Hm. So that's an interesting question, though, so why? And it's not typical for you to have four coffees.

CLIENT: Just because there's all this stuff. It wasn't like my usual routine, and it was fucking freezing. And I also do I mean I'm weird. I kind of do it's like a I'm like my dad that way, or my dad's side of the family. It's just coffee's always around. I don't finish it or whatever. It's like a cigarette or if you chew on your pen or something. But yet, it was so fucking cold that I ended up drinking all of it. Or it's like -

THERAPIST: So how about a decaf?

CLIENT: I can't stand decaf.

THERAPIST: Really?

CLIENT: Just have tea. Yeah. It tastes burnt and weird. Yeah, I don't know. I just don't like it.

THERAPIST: So how about tea?

CLIENT: Tea's okay.

THERAPIST: Hot chocolate.

CLIENT: Eh, hot chocolate's okay.

THERAPIST: It's not good for you to have four cups of coffee where it keeps you up all night, that's all. [00:08:00]

CLIENT: Yeah, no shit. That's very true. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And even as it was happening, I was like, oh, this is clearly too much coffee. It's not...

THERAPIST: Your body responds. I mean you said that before, a couple times you had a lot of coffee that day, and you stay up the whole night.

CLIENT: Yep, yep, yep. Yep. I always am kind of like, whatever. It was like, no, but when you have that much, it's it's one thing if I have this, and then let's say if I go to the Guys at 8:00 or 9:00 p.m., so all I've had is half of this, and I'll get another one, and I'll kind of just toy with it, that's fine. But Starbucks, Panera, these fucking idiots with their disgusting coffee, that's so there was that.

THERAPIST: That (inaudible at 08:44). [LAUGHING]

CLIENT: Yeah, that plus the day was full of activity. My family, I love them but they were stressful to be with them. And then practice and we drank after practice. There's alcohol, too. I mean, we didn't drink drink, but I had two beers. [00:09:09]

Plus, yeah, there's just a lot. I'm trying to get this record out. I'm trying to find someone new to do the graphic design. I had to call BMI to figure out my publishing stuff, and how to yeah. I'm just and the money's not enough. I might be in a little bit of a bind, so there's that.

THERAPIST: From Kickstart, you mean?

CLIENT: Yeah, I just didn't count on this graphic design fiasco. And also, for whatever reason, I don't know why but I didn't know that there's a fee for BMI. Because I'm already a member, but I didn't take into account that I'm starting a new publishing because I'm releasing it myself, so I think there's a fee for that. I think it's $200 or $300 bucks. I don't know. [00:10:12]

It's just all this shit. It's not a huge deal, and I but it's just stuff that makes my mind kind of... (pause) I'm putting together the show in March.

THERAPIST: Well, there's enough on your mind like a day like yesterday where it's, it's a day where it would be particularly helpful for you not to drink so much coffee.

CLIENT: I know. I had thought of that, too.

THERAPIST: And even have an Ambien on a night if you know your mind is racing, if that would -

CLIENT: That was the weird thing. I don't know why I didn't do did I do that last night? I didn't do that. I've kind of been doing that lately just to have at least be like, okay, if I'm not going to fall asleep by midnight or 1:00, I could at least be asleep by 2:00. I mean, I got to somehow so I -

THERAPIST: An hour of sleep is not good for you.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, no. Well, this was -

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 10:59).

CLIENT: Well, this was unusual. I've not been doing that it's been -

THERAPIST: Even four isn't -

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, no, no. No, I've been getting more than four, so I've been better. But yeah, for whatever reason yesterday. Did I? I don't think I did. I don't think I had an Ambien. I don't know why. I think when I got home, I was just up, and I was like, all right, that's okay. I'm just up for now. But anyway.

THERAPIST: Well, there may also be it may not just be coincidence that yesterday was the day where you decided unconsciously to have four cups of coffee either. The staying up at night has been a retreat for you, too, and if there's a lot of feeling going on yesterday, maybe there's a part of you just longing for an excuse to stay up, and get cozy, and be near your computer and a show.

CLIENT: Yeah, although I wasn't that cozy.

THERAPIST: No?

CLIENT: I think because of the coffee. I was definitely just -

THERAPIST: Racing?

CLIENT: Yeah, I wasn't that calm really. But you're right. I mean I get what you're saying, though. You're right. I don't know. It's just a bummer. Then there's this other thing, of all it's the stuff that just makes me sad because it makes me a little doom and gloom. [00:12:21]

Of all things, I found this Assyrian chick, on OK Stupid, and she's fucking she's an opera singer. She's beautiful. But already, I just get the sense that it's just not going to happen, and stuff like that's just fucking bumming me out. It's like it's bad enough I have a bad track record in general with relationships, I cannot get an Assyrian chick that I'm interested in to reciprocate. I can't make it happen. I just can't. I'm like, what's the problem here? Age-wise, perfect. Our background, she's very cosmopolitan, she's artistic, I'm like, what's the problem? And yet, it's just not I don't sense it. [00:13:15]

She's a little I friended her on Facebook. She's like, "I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but I don't really friend people on Facebook." She's like, "You can like my fan page." Get the fuck out of here, like your fan page? You like my fan page, idiot. I was like, what the fuck are you talking about? It's like, you're on OK Stupid, but you want people to like you don't want to friend them on Facebook? It's like, what am I, a freak? I'm a nice dude who has your background. I don't know, man. See, stuff like that just I don't know. It's fucking tiring, and it's a bummer.

THERAPIST: It sounds like she thought you were a fan or something. [00:14:01]

CLIENT: That was the thing. There's no inkling that I'd be a fan. I mean we were just chatting. We chatted on OK Stupid. We -

THERAPIST: Oh, you did.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't randomly -

THERAPIST: Okay. I thought that was the first contact.

CLIENT: No, no, no. We chatted on so I was just like, this is stupid to be on this. Now we've chatted and let's move it to a not that Facebook is great, but you know. So I was just like, whatever. It just I don't know.

THERAPIST: You've alluded to, before, to feeling like the kind of Assyrian woman you'd be attractive to is attracted to American, very, very Americanized.

CLIENT: Or whatever, yeah. Or they're going to end up with an Assyrian, but it's probably going to be not it's probably going to be a douche. This girl's in other words, they go through this it could even be a long phase they're all artsy, and this and that. They're living in New York, downtown, whatever, but really when it comes time for them to get serious, they just pick some douche bag, some fucking banker, or something, and that's that. He's Assyrian, but he's really just a douche. [00:15:15]

So that happens a lot. They act all artsy, and oh, I got a painting, or whatever the fuck, but really they're just little princesses and they're just going to marry some idiot. It's very rare that they stick with that and actually get together with a non-Assyrian but at least who's cool, or usually it's not like that.

THERAPIST: So when you say some idiot and some douche, you mean -

CLIENT: Cookie cutter -

THERAPIST: moving back to a conservative -

CLIENT: Exactly, yeah.

THERAPIST: old school.

CLIENT: Total square. A total fucking square, yep. An engineer or a finance guy, or whatever. So yeah. I don't know. [00:16:00]

And I think on top of everything else, being with my family for that long was just, ugh. Even thinking about it now just makes me feel tight and wound up. It's just like, they're just everything's just fucking heavy. Even when they try to be light, it's so forced. My uncle's like this now, and yeah. It's just everything's just stressed. Just a conversation is stressful. (pause) [00:17:03]

And then I was like, I think yesterday or last night, or the day before, I don't know, I think maybe because of all this stuff, I started getting the physical stuff. Not so much that I feel I mean I definitely feel a little tight and anxious off and on, but I started having this dread, and I was like, I just cannot relax. I was like, that's making me panic now. Even now when I said it, I feel the anxiety. It's bothering me that I can't I often times give a façade of being very calm, and I guess a lot of times I am calm. But, I don't know, in general, I feel like I'm not relaxed enough. I'm just constantly going and, I don't know. It makes me nervous. [00:18:17]

THERAPIST: Do you mean you're sort of afraid that you're feeling that right now, today and yesterday, or you start feeling paranoid that you've always never been able to relax? Is it a bigger -

CLIENT: In general.

THERAPIST: sort of thing?

CLIENT: Yeah, in general. But yeah, especially I've been thinking about it the last few days, yeah. I mean again, it could be the coffee as well, but I don't know. I just worry that I even when I'm home, am I really relaxing? I mean, thank god for the cat. But I got to just get back to I mean, I was good for a week there with exercise stuff. I just got to get back to that. [00:19:04]

THERAPIST: There's an incredible amount of stress, and tension, and anxiety, and trauma that causes anxiety in your history, Brian. I mean I think you carry around so much tension of all that's ever been inside you in a physical way, and then sometimes you get anxious about noticing those symptoms when those symptoms -

CLIENT: Like today.

THERAPIST: Yeah. It just makes some sense that you're on guard and we were talking about PTSD. That's part of a hyper-vigilant tense preparedness for something bad happening is part of that range of symptoms, and it literally has a bodily component.

CLIENT: Yeah, then I freak out because of family history, or my dad, or whatever. Just illness, or whatever the then I start freaking out. And then of course, that's a vicious cycle because you can't relax if you're like, you've got to relax. [00:20:08]

THERAPIST: Yeah. That never works.

CLIENT: So especially if you don't relax, you're going to get sick. It's just that's not helpful. So I think other than this, I think it really has to be exercise, or maybe actual meditation, like going somewhere with people, or someone to just like I come here. Just because it's not at home, that's not really sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. It's not structured. It's not -

THERAPIST: Well, you also don't have built up inside you really soothing healthfully soothing figures just living inside you from your childhood. I picture your dad, and you loved him and idealized him in many ways, but also the image of handling things is clamping down stoicism. Smoking a cigarette and having a drink, which actually really isn't that helpful for his health. [00:21:18]

That's the thing that might is going to be harmful, in addition to the stressfulness. Your mother is smothering with do this, do this, do this, do this, making it even worse with her own anxiety about how on earth did you get sick, or why us, or how did this happen? They're both handling anxiety in pretty unhealthy ways, so there's no one soothing inside. Just telling you it's going to be okay, or let's have less coffee tomorrow. That would be helpful. And go get to the gym or something. But just kind of good self-care. [00:22:02]

CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) Even my posture, it just bothers me. I try to do it myself, but I'm like, maybe I need somebody to fucking realign my spine, or just help me like when we play, I catch myself in the middle of a song or whatever, and I can tell I'm like this. Some of that is just my stance. I like to lean a little bit into the microphone, but still, I'm just not I just don't like that. So stuff like that. It's like all these little things add up. (pause) [00:23:00]

THERAPIST: What are things that are ordinary but I think sometimes make you feel like you're alone, the only one dealing with this stuff.

CLIENT: Yeah, that's true, too. See, yeah, that's the other thing, too. I can't even what am I talking about? First of all, people have way more stress than what is my stress? I fucking work from home. I come here. I try to remind myself of that, but that's how I know I have to do something about it. What's going on? I mean, I don't know, or maybe I'm being extreme. There have been a lot of days maybe I'm saying all this now just this week [00:24:08]

THERAPIST: Because you feel that way today and yesterday.

CLIENT: Exactly, yeah.

THERAPIST: Or -

CLIENT: There are plenty of days I go to Starbucks, I'm totally chilled out. I just have one half cup of coffee. I sit there for a few hours, I do my I feel fine. I come home. I do have a routine. Yeah, I think you're right. When this kind of stuff happens, even though I feel so much better, I still do feel, I guess, kind of alone, and maybe that's like my mom's side. Then I start to cook, and oh, I'm having too much coffee. It's like, what? It's like the one time I had such a bad panic attack, one of the last times I went to the ER. There's this very she was a doctor, I think. She was a young doctor. She was a cool chick, whatever. And I don't know what I said, something about oh, I was like, I'm getting these chronic headaches. She's like, "Oh." She's like, "I wake up with a chronic headache every single I take five Advil a day." [00:25:12]

And so yeah, there's like the fact that I'm actually, in some ways, probably doing way better than but again, yeah, I think with that stuff, it's all on my mother's side. It's all this very I just worry and I get little things become big things that are just fucking ridiculous.

THERAPIST: It is true that having less coffee will probably help you, but it's also true that it's not a huge deal.

CLIENT: It's not yeah.

THERAPIST: You did that yesterday. Of course you're feeling stressed out yesterday, Brian, and today. And you actually haven't been feeling this way for a lot of the time lately.

CLIENT: Right, right. And the fact is it isn't even that bad.

THERAPIST: No. [00:26:01]

CLIENT: Yesterday was a fine day. I went to practice, had a great practice. Hung out with the guys. Yeah. I think it's just the mechanism is kicking in, like, oh, something happened with a girl or whatever. Now we've got to get wacky.

THERAPIST: Even though part you're not even believing that. There's those two minds going on about it.

CLIENT: Right, right. Well, even though I don't think I want to be with her pretty much, so I think there's just that hardwired thing that's much less, but it's still trying to -

THERAPIST: The hardwired thing is that it's you, and you're the one who's rejectable. Even though I know you know that's not the story, but that's part of the idea of being back alone is oh, I'm never going to be with anybody, and it's just me and there must be something about me. [00:27:02]

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, deep down, I think there is, yeah. There's that. And I think, again, it doesn't help having this Assyrian element. I think if I was just completely Americanized, I'm in the same boat as everybody else. We're all trying to find somebody. I think I'd but that added element of it's almost like being rejected by two different groups. Instead of just one I'm America, everybody's American, whatever. There's no but this feels like I'm being deep down, there's that doom and gloom that I can't figure it out with either side of this cultural thing. Which again, I know is completely catastrophizing, and whatever, but yeah, deep down, it does feel that way.

THERAPIST: Like you're not going to ever fit anywhere or something. [00:27:54]

CLIENT: Yeah. Yep. Or that I missed the boat somehow. I'm young, but I'm not young enough for girls that might be really cool, but they're 24 or 25. Or there might be women who are 40 who are really cool, but I'd like to have kids, and I'd like somehow there's yeah. Which again is neither here nor there. I mean I don't know what that means. There's all kinds of people all different ages, but yeah, it's just it's really my mom's side for sure. When I get like this, it's as if what ways can I find to be down on myself and ignore all the awesome things that are happening. [LAUGHING]

THERAPIST: It's so striking how it goes there.

CLIENT: Yeah. Yep. I did get a great idea for a novel, though, a real idea. [00:29:08]

THERAPIST: Yeah?

CLIENT: Other than that one that I'm trying to I think I'm just going to write about I'm going to fictionalize a memoir type, but I'm just going to call it fiction. Using as a base, the road trip when I moved out West I was thinking that would be a perfect narrative, plotting each stop, each town, or whatever, and then using those as flashbacks, or splicing in. Because I think that was kind of important [LAUGHING].

THERAPIST: And a trip you've hardly told me anything about.

CLIENT: Right. Right. So I think (pause) because it's kind of perfect. Me trying to run away from something that you can't run away from. [00:30:14]

THERAPIST: Say more?

CLIENT: I'm sorry?

THERAPIST: Say more?

CLIENT: Well, that was so insane. That was so fucking insane.

THERAPIST: The decision even to move, you mean?

CLIENT: The decision, the move. I mean it was surreal, it was bizarre. I was sobbing as I'm driving on the highway. Oh, my god, it was so weird. So weird.

THERAPIST: How did you it was for a girl?

CLIENT: Yep.

THERAPIST: That was why?

CLIENT: A girl that I had already met and was going to meet me in Arizona. That was the one Assyrian girlfriend I had. And [00:31:01]

THERAPIST: And she was from Oregon?

CLIENT: Yeah. And I just convinced myself that I got so wrapped up in, oh, my god, a girl likes me.

THERAPIST: You hadn't met, you just were Facebooking, or texting?

CLIENT: No, no, we -

THERAPIST: Or what? No?

CLIENT: This is 1991, Tricia. [LAUGHING]

THERAPIST: Yeah. Well...

CLIENT: No, writing letters.

THERAPIST: E-mailing? Letters?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Handwritten letters?

CLIENT: Handwritten letters.

THERAPIST: Oh, my goodness. So how'd you find her?

CLIENT: She found me because a friend of mine told her, "Hey, I got this friend who's a poet. You're a poet. You guys are around the same age." And then she was like, "Oh, I know that name." And she had read my stuff in the paper, whatever, and got my number and called me. It was awesome. I think if things had been different, it would've gone differently, but because I put her on a pedestal. [00:32:02]

I mean I was fucked. I was so fucked up. It was never going to work, but yeah. So it was awful. I mean I was having the panic attacks and then not telling anybody. I was going to the emergency room. Oh, man, my mom was sleeping on the floor in the den because she wasn't sleeping in the bedroom. This is only five months after my dad died. I'd hold it in, hold it in, hold it in, then I'd break down. It was a fucking nightmare.

THERAPIST: Break down with your mother?

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah.

THERAPIST: Sobbing, you mean? Or having a panic attack?

CLIENT: Well, both. Yeah. It was -

THERAPIST: What would you do when you would?

CLIENT: Well, she'd cry. She'd console me.

THERAPIST: It was helpful. [00:32:55]

CLIENT: I don't remember. Yeah, I'm sure it was. My mom isn't at the end of the day, my mom is she isn't the type of person to castigate someone when she really sees I mean she's not like that. But I think the thing is that wasn't the help I needed. I mean I needed to be here and have medication, and someone to really take charge and be like, "Look, you've got to finish school," or whatever. "Let's get you some help." That's what I needed, but instead, they were like, "See ya." I mean they weren't like see ya, but there was no real no one called me out. No one called me out. Anyway. But yeah.

THERAPIST: What just happened? Why'd you say anyway?

CLIENT: Well, I don't know. It's such a long fucking story, I don't even it's an endless story. (pause) [00:34:02]

I think that's the other thing that makes me tired and kind of sad about relationships is I feel like I can't explain. If I just stop objectively make a list, even just a list of stuff I've gone through, things I've done, places I've been, blah, blah, blah, whatever. It's kind of unreal. I feel like I'm not better than other people. I just feel like for a 40 year old, it's like what the fuck. That's a lot of life. Because I've been the type where I'm proactive, even if I'm not sure what I'm doing. I'm like fuck it, I'm moving to OREGON Fuck it, I'm moving to Europe. I'm very I feel like sometimes maybe that makes me feel more alone, because I'm like, where do I how do I really, I don't know. I don't know if that makes sense. [00:35:07]

THERAPIST: Well, one of the questions you're asking is you're starting to talk about just a little bit is how much of it is running away from something, and how much do you then feel alone as you're on a road trip, heading out to Oregon or to Arizona, and what you really need is to feel in company and together, and taking care of is somebody to stand with you and say, "Here, don't run away. You need some help. Let's get you some treatment. Let's get you back in school." It's hard to know how much has been running from something. When you say I'm the type that I'm proactive and you go places, you don't always know exactly why though. [00:35:59]

CLIENT: Right. Right, right. Well, I mean yeah, Oregon, that's almost like I blacked out almost. I don't know what was going on there, but other things, I mean, I think there is a somewhat I think in that way, I'm an artist. I'm like, no. You know what? This is scary or whatever, but I'm going to Europe. So I think generally, it's been good intentions, but I think maybe not thought out completely because of other issues that I hadn't sorted out. But yeah, you're right. It's kind of like, what's going on?

THERAPIST: Or there's a courage to go, but there's not a framework for thinking also about what you're leaving behind.

CLIENT: That's right. That's right. That's right.

THERAPIST: And then what needs to be done to make going feel really good and possible. [00:37:03]

CLIENT: Right. Right, right. Well, and also it's just simple. At the end of the day, if you have emotional or mental issues, they're just going to get in your way whatever you do. As good intention, or courageous, or you have a purpose or whatever, but then that purpose gets fucked up because you can't concentrate, or you can't so there's all that.

But yeah, that's why I thought, you know what, that has to be the novel, in a way. All this stems from that. I mean, not the old Brian, but this feeling like no one's giving me guidance. I mean, it all started, that was the moment. That could've changed everything, and it kind of set the tone for the 20 years. [00:38:03]

And I think that's lately, I'm not trying to put a good spin on it, it's just because I genuinely feel it, I think I'm also sometimes staying up because really I should be at my desk writing. My mind, it's there. I can feel it, just like with the first book. It's time. But I think with this, I feel more scared because even talking about it, it makes me feel uncomfortable and anxious. So to write a novel about it, you got to lose yourself in that, and that's -

THERAPIST: I'm struck even when you said so anyway, it was like enough of that. Do you know what even about thinking about a road trip, what feels so uncomfortable -

CLIENT: Oh, it was a fucking nightmare.

THERAPIST: to even bring that up? [00:39:07]

CLIENT: It was, I mean, what doesn't feel I mean it was a fucking nightmare. The first night in the middle of nowhere, I don't know, wherever the fuck I was, having a complete panic attack in a fucking hotel room when you're 19 or 20. I mean, that's just one example.

THERAPIST: Sad and scary.

CLIENT: Yeah. But not having the [where with all] (ph) to be like, I don't want to do this, I want to go back home, fucking carrying on across the country. I don't know who that person was. Those memories are just very strange, strange memories. [00:40:01]

THERAPIST: What did you tell your family was why you were going, for this girl?

CLIENT: Her.

THERAPIST: So they knew that?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And how'd they respond?

CLIENT: Honestly, the only thing that gives me some I mean I've got to be empathetic to them. I mean, it was just a few months after I mean they were I think I underestimating here a little bit how beyond profoundly stunned my family was, to the core. They were in a daze, too. They were in a daze. When I look back on it, I don't know what the fuck they said. They didn't know what they said. They were concerned. There was a lot of talk about because I was, I think, even saying it, I was like, well, you know, if it doesn't work out, I'll just come back. I mean that was the other thing. Go if you're going to go, but four years? Why? It was a nightmare from beginning to end, literally. [00:41:00]

I mean, whatever decent moments there were, were not that decent. What is that? I could've just gone. It's an adventure. I'm 18, 19, that's the stuff that really unsettles me. I'm really uncomfortable with that. I'm like, what was that? It was as if I was a baby, and I'm in a growing man's body. I look around me and other 18, 19, 20 year olds, they go through a lot of bad things, but somehow they have this there's something about them. They seem to have a sense of I'm fucked up, or this or that, but I'm working two jobs, and I'm going to try to get myself through school, and they're fucked up but somehow, there's something that I don't know what to say about it.

That's the other reason I thought of the I was like, something happened. Something, I was already shy. I was already whatever, but I wasn't that I would sit there, I would write at my desk. I've told you those stories. I would send shit out all the time to the fucking New Yorker and this. I had confidence at 17 years old, sending shit out. I wanted to go to the news school, or Bennington. [00:42:18]

THERAPIST: You graduated early.

CLIENT: Yeah, I graduated early. There was a I think if all this shit hadn't happened, I was one of those kids like my background's weird or whatever, but I was going to make it work. I mean, you could never know, but I think more or less, I was going to make it work. I was ambitious, and I was but something clearly... Well, I don't know what it's like to be under mortar attack all of a sudden, but I don't know how else to explain it. [00:43:03]

THERAPIST: Then it really feels like your father's death hit as a total trauma.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. And not just me, to the whole family.

THERAPIST: To the whole family.

CLIENT: Yeah. It derailed...

THERAPIST: Everyone.

CLIENT: Yeah. Yep, yep.

THERAPIST: So not only are you getting derailed and they're getting derailed, but then because they're derailed, you can't even be helped with your own state. There's no one.

CLIENT: No. I mean, they weren't cold to me or anything like that. There was love, but again, it's like you need practical, real guidance.

THERAPIST: Yeah. When I asked how they responded to your saying you were going across the country, it wasn't even from a place of judgment.

CLIENT: Yeah. No, no, I know.

THERAPIST: I didn't know if they could say, "Oh, no, please don't go," and beg you to stay because they need you. They could say, "Sounds great. We support you. We'll buy you a plane ticket home." [00:44:07]

CLIENT: Yeah. No, it was the reaction of stunned people who are already in a daze. They kind of didn't get it, but they got it. I think in their own way, they thought that's helpful. We'll support -

THERAPIST: That's good for you.

CLIENT: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Poor kid. Let him go, I don't know. Because they're not the type to just be like, all right. See you later. They're not like that. There is a lot of love, but just it was just shellshock. (pause) [00:45:02]

THERAPIST: Brian, next week on Friday, something is taking me out of the office a little unexpectedly. I usually like to give more notice than this.

CLIENT: Okay. It's okay.

THERAPIST: But we could do a third session on Wednesday. I don't know what your Wednesday is like.

CLIENT: That'd be awesome.

THERAPIST: I'm trying to, because I know we just had an interrupted week. So it'll give us three -

CLIENT: Yeah. Right, right, right. It's kind of nice, too, because then that'd be less time between Monday and Thursday.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah. I have 1:00 on Wednesday.

CLIENT: Perfect.

THERAPIST: Does that work?

CLIENT: Yep.

THERAPIST: Okay. Do you want me to write it down?

CLIENT: No, I'll remember. Because I'm going to see you Monday anyway, right?

THERAPIST: Yep.

CLIENT: 10:00?

THERAPIST: Monday at 10:00 still for now. Yeah.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: But I just wanted to know if you wanted something better.

CLIENT: Thanks. Cool. Thanks. Have a good weekend.

THERAPIST: You, too.

END TRANSCRIPT