TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: Sort of the hazard of oh, you moved the couch.

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah. I think the desk is going to go and I had some stuff made, that can go up on the wall.

CLIENT: That's a stopper right there?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Sort of drawback of getting healthcare is that oh, my God, where is that here.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: I had stopped setting a reminder extra early, because like whatever. I mean, I won't go get late on my way out of the building. I don't know. They're talking to us about physical therapy in the union contract, which is still in negotiation.

THERAPIST: Oh.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: How the contract will include like what coverage does include for physical therapy?

CLIENT: No, they're separate. She had physical therapy program taken off. [0:01:13.8]

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: Also, Cambridge's getting real mean on healthcare benefits additionally, but they're going to try to raise the co-pays again, but I haven't really been paying attention. So I started getting, I don't know, sort of worried about so, the initial six weeks of short-term disability are up, like mid-December, and it's still like confusing to me, um, who I would talk to, if that needs to get extended, but my insurance only okayed eight appointments at first, but they might okay more. (sighs) And it's one of those things where, like, I mean I think everyone finds it stressful to try to find out what the hell your insurance is doing. It's also a case of, like, it would be really nice to have HR, an HR present, or a person I could talk to, because I just, I don't know, like I don't know what I should be doing. Enrollment, it's up again, I think it was now-ish.

THERAPIST: Yeah. [0:03:17.8]

CLIENT: So, I feel like I don't really know like what I'm doing with that. Will the contract affect that, will like, I don't know. It's one of things like I just really want, like someone else to have answers, so that's been kind of, I don't know, was on my mind this weekend. The other thing is, so one of my good friends, Martha, she works in HR, she's like a high level HR professional, blah-blah-blah. We were at a party on Saturday and she invited some coworkers, some of whom just work in her building, some of whom also work at HR. And whenever I talk to her about work, she's always like that's inappropriate, that's illegal, they shouldn't be doing this, and she's sort of like [0:04:34.3]

THERAPIST: She doesn't work in HR at Harvard?

CLIENT: No, she works in HR generally.

THERAPIST: Oh, gotcha.

CLIENT: Like for a while she was doing HR contracting to utility companies, and she worked for [AccuBind?] and two other places, but then she doesn't work for Cambridge, although she has applied, had applied to work there twice. But it's just really weird to sort of she's talking about it and she's like that's illegal, nope, nope, like that's, you know, blah-blah-blah.

THERAPIST: Yeah. CLIENT: I don't know, it's just one of those things where I'm sort of like oh, like I just don't know what to do with that information, like that XYZ was totally illegal, or inappropriate or like 50 other things. I mean now that she's saying I should, but… And one of the things I talk about, actually abused coworkers about, was having this was a while ago having a sexually harassing coworker. [0:05:41.8]

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: And so, we were talking like, you know, probably every women we know has a story of being sexually harassed at work, and usually not telling anyone. And I was discussing how, like I did let my manager know and nothing useful happened. I don't know. I guess with like both getting sexual harassing coworker, and with Will, like in both cases, I went to my manager, I went to HR and didn't really get anywhere. I always end up I mean, part of me is sort of like well, is it that the HR people were kind of fucked up or like not very competent? Is it that management isn't very competent? You know, like why is doing all the right things completely not going anywhere? Like especially given… People will often say oh, it's such a lawsuit waiting to happen and I'm like, I guess? But… It feels like if it really was a lawsuit waiting to happen, that someone would have done something more, like big attempt to pacify me, something, something, as opposed to nothing. So, yeah. [0:08:04.3]

And then also sort of the greater question is lately it seems like oh, well you do IT, you must be able to have a lot of job opportunities in industry, why don't you go do that. I guess your answer is one is, like I'm doing pretty well with my education benefit and having a lot of seniority in terms of other benefits. But sort of like my library degree, I don't have IT certification. I haven't taken like, computer courses. So, on like if someone was looking at a stack of resumes, mine probably wouldn't go anywhere, just based on that. If you're doing an initial sort, I don't have the like, you know, official qualifications, which is another thing which (sighs) it's what drives me crazy about library school too, where I'm like, I can do the job, it's just that I have to pay a lot of money for you to believe I can do the job. And it doesn't matter that I've done you know, it doesn't matter that I've done it successfully, or any of these other things. It's just like I have to, you know, pay the money. It's not an excuse that they're time consuming notes.

THERAPIST: I see. [0:09:45.3]

CLIENT: You know? Like the library degree is taking a long time, and since I'm in the final stretch, I'm getting more annoyed about it not being done. And then I had this sort of like, another real weird anxiety dream where I had decided to quit work and go to another library school to finish, and in my dream, when I got there, I was like oh God, wait, I don't want to do this. Why did I quit my job? I didn't budget for these things; stress, stress, stress, wake up. And like when I kind of woke up and was thinking about, (A) it was a boring stress dream and, (B) like I really like in many ways I don't feel like I would be able to just, to quit and do, like finish off school quickly. I don't know, I feel like whatever planning, preparations, savings, et cetera, I don't know, it's just like, I'm kind of like oh, God, I'd have to pay rent, like this expense of rent and there's food and there's tuition and there's like stuff. I don't know. [0:11:52.6]

I feel in some ways, a little bit jealous of the university students who are in school, in part because I've had a while of having that salary and enjoying it.

THERAPIST: Right. They don't know what that's like.

CLIENT: Yeah. I mean, I remember when I first like had a job, I was just like you're paying me all this money twice a month, with like what? I don't want to lose that. I'm like, even if I had a part-time job, it would be a lot less. I mean, they're about to give out loans and blah-blah-blah, working at Starbucks sucks, but like I don't know, I feel like at least (inaudible).

PAUSE: [0:12:55.6 to 0:13:26.9]

THERAPIST: Well, I guess it's kind of impossible. It seems like it's just sort of impossible in wanting to stay and impossible wanting to leave, I think.

CLIENT: It's not like that it feels impossible. I feel like I'm spinning my wheels and like that's kind of what's making it impossible. I don't know, for me it feels like if I was more if I could get myself more motivated, then… I don't know, it would be easier, less frustrating, something.

THERAPIST: You're spinning your wheels how? [0:14:27.1]

CLIENT: I think I'm spinning my wheels in that, so like my job is kind of in this like I feel like it was kind of static, it's not really changing, and I feel like, you know, it's not I don't like I don't foreseeee… anything really. I don't really foresee, like, things at work, like my job becoming more interesting or easier or more defined.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: I feel like it's just, it's kind of in limbo because the library tradition, still nobody knows what's going on.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: And also, I don't think I have any support for doing anything, so that feels like I'm just stuck in my place at work. And then at school, I guess it's partially finishing up prior classes, but I feel like well, I'm doing this. I'm not really learning new things right now. I feel very much again, sort of rehashing what I already know, but then I think well, there are, you know… This is the last required class, so I think I have three electives left. So they could be interesting things with those classes, except like I just have a hard time, like I guess not (inaudible) but, like in looking at classes for the next terms, like hmmm, it's all going to suck, nah. But I also think like that's not like that's at least partially me being feeling like stuck in a rut, but I don't feel like and so I'm like, and then I feel like I'm just sort of stuck in a rut, but I also feel like I could also change that. But I also feel like really tired out and not motivated, you know, like put together things. And lately I've been thinking about, I mean for a while, but mentoring programs or trying to connect with non-Cambridge librarians, since I told off Cambridge Librarians, and like talk to people about the interesting things that they're doing. [0:18:04.5]

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: I don't know, I think about doing it but then I don't. I get kind of I don't know, I get like stuck or just, like I should really e-mail this person something interesting or something whatever. I'm really exhausted, I would rather like, lie down. The other related thing is I keep on thinking, do I need to create work presence, like work Internet presence, like a professional one.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: And so I get very hung up on like, well should I set up a framework of a work me, before talking to people, because then it's constantly like work, Internet, me or not, like I don't know. I keep on sort of bogging myself down in the details of it.

PAUSE: [0:19:23.7 to 0:20:19.7]

THERAPIST: What else comes to mind?

CLIENT: I don't know, mostly I think about, I mean, I heard like, what I feel like or think about is being depressed and also like having all this physical pain, like that's taking up a lot of my time or energy.

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: And then I feel a little worried about being able to get hired at a new job. I don't know, I think part of me kind of worries about applying for a new job if I don't feel I don't I, I don't I get worried about what kind of reference or recommendation or whatever, Chet would give me, if I was applying for a new job. Like, would it be positive? Would they mention absences, even though they're not supposed to really at all, that's never stopped them. I get worried about those negatively affecting, just like my ability to get a job and my ability to work at the job. I think right now, I couldn't stand behind a reference desk for a long time, or like stand at, you know, a surveyor desk, and that's something that librarians totally do a lot. Sitting down for a long period of time is also not great, which I'm sort of like well… I guess I can think of ways that like I don't see those as necessarily making it impossible for me to work at all, but I worry that a new employer might say like well, we can get someone who's younger and healthier or cheaper. I mean, other girls are changing careers, like when you're not 23. [0:23:48.9]

THERAPIST: I guess I do wonder, as you're talking, whether you're like to what extent you're talking yourself out of it. I mean, you gave quite a number of reasons why it absolutely doesn't make any sense to look for other jobs. I can see your reasoning, it doesn't sound far-fetched exactly. At the same time, as far as I know, you've never really tried, nor are you considering what I imagine would be a bunch of things in your favor.

CLIENT: Yeah, no. I really can only think of -

THERAPIST: I mean, such as your experience and the fact that you do, do IT and library stuff, and are most of the way through your degree and went to Cambridge, which employers probably often like.

CLIENT: (chuckles) [0:25:13.4]

THERAPIST: And, you know, probably know people who know people who might be looking. In other words, yours might not just be one of three hundred resumes that shows up in a stack, e-mail, or electronically, you know?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: You hardly mentioned any of that.

CLIENT: It's really hard for me to hold those, like it just feels very slippery when I'm thinking about it.

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: I know, I know. Like partly, it's one of the reasons why I'm like oh, I should make a professional Internet me, because I'm like, well I know all these people, but I don't necessarily want an employer to know, like all my personal Internet connections. [0:26:15.7]

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: So I'm like oh, I should probably make one that my Internet friends could like I could point someone to, and part of that is predicated on me knowing people who know people. THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: You know?

THERAPIST: I bet if you messaged a bunch of the people that you know, who you imagine would know people, and could probably find you people to get in touch with. I mean I bet you could have a dozen people to get in touch with within two weeks or something.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: If that's what you wanted to do. Right, so why are you sort of trying to convince both of us that you're sort of stuck? I'm not saying there aren't ways in which you're stuck or that there aren't some things you'd have to struggle against, but it seems to me you're pretty invested seeing yourself as being that way. [0:27:23.5]

CLIENT: I think part of it is being depressed and tired. So, Rachel Maddow, a little while ago, gave this interview about her like she has periods with depression, and she talks about like how she kind of like, she's like oh, okay, I'm feeling depressed, I should like do these things to kind of tie myself over for that time period.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: And (inaudible) to me lately. And I guess right now I feel like, I don't know, I just feel really like I guess I have a hard time saying to myself, like well, you know, maybe right now you're in that like Rachel Maddow, you're like well, I'm not doing so great right now, so I should let myself off the hook a little bit, and when I'm not feeling really depressed or physically uncomfortable, then I could work on more things. So it's not like I'm permanently stuck. I should think of it as a temporary problem. Does that make sense? [0:28:44.2]

THERAPIST: I think I follow what you're saying, but I have some objections to that.

CLIENT: (laughs)

THERAPIST: I think you probably would have said something similar to me, you know, during a period where you were less depressed and feeling less low. It may be exacerbated by your move, but I don't think it's entirely due to it. I think six months ago or nine months ago, a year ago, you might have said similar things. The other thing, my second thought about it is, I wouldn't be surprised if this is some inherent aspect of the depression, a kind of passivity and a feeling of stuckness, which is getting kind of externalized onto your thinking, or it just plays into your thinking about work, but it's not a prescription for how to deal with it. I think, you know, I've heard Rachel Maddow say stuff like that, you know, if you conceptualize her depression as kind of cyclic and that it's possible for her to see it coming, because then she doesn't expect as much for herself, and then it goes away. You know, your brain certainly has a purely chemical thing like that. [0:30:25.4]

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And you know, there's likely some chemical aspect to your depression as well, but I imagine there are psychological factors too, and my impression is a kind of passivity and sense of stuckness is a very important part of it, and that gets sort of played out in various things, including your feeling stuck at work and thinking about it in a way that fosters that feeling. We need to stop for now. We will talk more.

CLIENT: I thought you canceled one Saturday morning?

THERAPIST: Oh, let me turn on my calendar.

CLIENT: For some reason I thought that we had -

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