TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: What's going on? (inaudible) (Laughs) [00:00:23]

THERAPIST: (Laughs)

CLIENT: It's been a while. Ahh. It's awesome. Today they, even though you still can't park here you can park now by the river.

THERAPIST: I saw they plowed out a bunch more.

CLIENT: I got here like at 10:15. It's awesome.

THERAPIST: (inaudible) [00:00:46]

CLIENT: What's up. (Laughs)

THERAPIST: Nothing. How are you? It's been a week.

CLIENT: Yeah. I'm good. The trip was really awesome. It was awesome. It was good to you know, it's always we were both a little nervous, you know, the first time you're going to travel with somebody and it was a part business trip for her, it wasn't like it was actually a pretty, like hectic whirl. We didn't really do, I mean it was fun, but it was business, so (clears throat). It was awesome. We had like a great time. It was a blast. It was really, really fun. And I think like for both of us like the second night I think we got really drunk, I mean for us, really drunk, I mean not like sick drunk but really buzzed. Because she's pretty awesome like she (inaudible) very similar to that although she's even more than me a little bit. Like she doesn't really drink. But then if we're just having a good time, like we had this, like Tuesday night we had this great night (laughs) on the way back to the hotel we stopped at another bar and she, ‘can I grab a six-pack and just take it to the room with us?' And, of course, we didn't even drink it and I just like her, like I like that about her. Anyway. But, at the bar, the last bar before we went, like I'm pretty sure I told her that I was falling in love with her. I just ... [00:01:49]

THERAPIST: You're pretty sure?

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, I told her something like that. Yeah, I like ...=

THERAPIST: Pretty sure you don't remember?

CLIENT: No, no. Like I just don't remember my exact wording. But I said I think I just said, you know it was one of those times where I was just looking at her and just like I wanted to say things but I so I think I just made a little toast and I think I just said, I think I just said something like, ‘I'm pretty sure I'm falling in love with you' or something, don't know. Then I was like not that but then, of course, I undercut it with some joke I said something like, ‘I'm just falling in love with your body not with you so you don't have to worry about it,' or something, I don't know what the fuck I said. But, I don't know, it's all it's interesting. Quite a big deal.

THERAPIST: You thought you had to undercut it with a joke?

CLIENT: I mean, you know, she's like, she's definitely and she's been pretty honest about this. She's like remember when I told you that whole story about the artwork for the CD and all that? I don't know if I told you, come to find out from her that actually, so remember it was her and her best friend doing it. And then I got all paranoid because the best friend said something, you know what I mean? So, it turns out it was the exact opposite. I guess Erin was like, ‘this is all you.' I was like, ‘you gotta get your shit together, lady.'

THERAPIST: (Chuckle)

CLIENT: You can't, you gotta, you can't have so much armor up, or whatever. You've got to so I guess Erin called her out on it. And so she's honest about it. She does it's a weird thing because it's not like she's not like the other chicks I've dated. I mean she's, we're there. She's just not as it's hard to explain. She said she walks this fine of I know where her heart is? But she doesn't really say a lot about it. Do you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Um hmm.

CLIENT: So when I told her that I was falling in love with her, you know she didn't say that back to me. She was totally caught off guard I think a little bit and she'd got kind of like fat, but and she was like, ‘yeah, I really like how things are going' or something or, ‘I really like this' or something, I don't how she said it, but you know, I have my moments where I wish she was maybe a little more vocal, but then I'm like, ‘you know what no, because she actually is pretty vocal. I mean, for a girl like that to invite me to her business trip with her and I went to her meetings, by the way.

THERAPIST: Oh, really?

CLIENT: Because, you know, it's all art scene ph (inaudible) like you know, so you know I got to meet all these awesome studio heads for, like people who do cBrianons and adult (inaudible) and it was pretty fucking amazing. So for someone to do all that, that pretty much says it all. I mean, so I keep reminding myself of that. [00:05:10]

THERAPIST: Words may not come as easily. You're saying there are actions there that are ...

CLIENT: Actions are, yes, super like, it's very often that we'll talk about things like how well we get each other. Even like little fucking things. Shit, someone at her school, some colleague of hers, like this older lady she works with or something who is also kind of whacked and its school and they're all kind of kooky, gave her some cutout of something that has to do with something that has to do with children's literacy and you take this little guy around and put him places and take pictures and then they post, I don't know. So, we were (cross talk)

THERAPIST: Flat Stanley (Laughs)

CLIENT: Holy shit. That's crazy. So she brought us and like that's awesome. So, at one point when she was in the bathroom I took him out. In the hotel there was a nice black and white picture of the skyline, kind of like an older picture of New York, like the Empire State or whatever, so I took him and kind of made him look like he was hanging off the Empire State Building and I took pictures to surprise her. Right? The last day that we're there we're having like coffee and she says, "oh, Brenda got the picture I sent her," and she shows it to me and it's the exact picture I took. So, I had this moment of, whoa, what? Wait, did I send that to you? It was like, what do you mean?

THERAPIST: You took it on your phone.

CLIENT: Yeah. And I showed it to her and was like, ‘I took that like the first day we were here.' Like we have little, we have like cool little, you know. We just get each other really well. So, I don't know.

(Pause): [00:07:30 00:07:36]

THERAPIST: Places where your minds think very similarly.

CLIENT: Yeah. People like, we'll be walking in the city there's a lot of fucking people but we'd be walking the down the street without saying a word, just someone coming our way that we're both judging at the same time. We just look at each other and just like, you know? There it is or something like that. That's really, really awesome.

(Pause): [00:07:55 00:08:06]

CLIENT: I think it's just one of those things where it's going awesome and I think we're both just nervous enough that something, we're not, yeah, I don't know.

(Pause): [00:08:23 00:08:28]

THERAPIST: I hear (ph) you're taking it slowly.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah.

THERAPIST: Which is different in (inaudible) [00:08:34]

CLIENT: Yeah, right.

THERAPIST: There is a cautiousness about ...(cross talk)

CLIENT: Yeah, when I told her that that night I knew, I mean, it doesn't I don't believe in this shit where you're really drunk and you don't know what you're doing or whatever. On some level you kind of do know what you are doing. You might do it anyway and that's a mistake, but you did think about it. So, I knew that when I, if I told her, I knew I was going to be kind of, but then you know I was like, we've been dating for over four months. I think that's fair, a pretty average, if you're really, really falling for somebody. You've probably already been falling for them from day one. So, waiting four months to, in a kind of casual way slip it in, that you feel, you know.

THERAPIST: Are you worried that it kind of wasn't long enough?

CLIENT: Yeah, I definitely, I mean, considering what I've been through, yeah. I mean being that honest was not that easy. Especially ‘cause yeah, I mean she definitely is, she's not loose with her words. So, you know sometimes my mind will be like, well yeah you know anything can happen, but nothing's set in stone. She could be really cautious and then suddenly decide this isn't for me. I don't know. But that could happen anyway if someone's telling you they love you five times a day. It doesn't matter.

THERAPIST: And it could happen if you didn't (cross talk) ...[00:10:07]

CLIENT: Exactly. No. Like I felt good about it. You know what? I'm not, (whispers) yeah, you've got to be who you are and can be cautious and take it slow, but you've also got to be who you are. And, also I think sometimes somebody's got to say it. If she can't say it, you know what I mean? Someone's got to take the lead sometimes, like, you know what? I'm going to fucking say it. But, anyway, yeah, it was an awesome trip. And it was good because it was the kind of trip where, you know, we were fucking exhausted. I mean she was seeing four people a day, I mean, we were all over the city and she's also not a huge city per like, you know I was kind of taking charge of she, you know if you don't want to take the subway for each taxi to everywhere, and not in a bad way she was like look, they're paying for this and fuck all these people, you know. It's like there's a lot of potential for like crankiness, you know, she, she's waiting to talk to all these fucking people. They make her wait a little bit or, you know, there are all these artsy places. There are no signs. Sometimes we couldn't figure out where the fuck where that special office was or whatever. It was awesome. You know, it was really fun

(Pause): [00:11:31 00:11:52]

CLIENT: And then (deep breath) so I have my event next Wednesday at the museum. So, I think I'm looking forward to that. I'm a little nervous maybe, but I'm more nervous because it's like I'm trying not to think of it as, like, I'm just not trying not to think of it. (Chuckles) ‘Cause, you know, there could be a lot of people, there could be not a lot of people. I don't know. I'm just trying not to take it that seriously. But, at the same time it's my turf, it's my people. I do want it. I do want it to go well. So, we'll see.

THERAPIST: You're going to do a reading?

CLIENT: I'm going to read for about 15 minutes from the book and the new manuscript and then we're going to do a discussion. So, it's basically like those French shows where there'd be like just two people around a little coffee table smoking and just talking. That's what they kind of want to do with like artists. It's going to be a series, every few months. So, there's a moderator who is a very nice lady. I've known her a long time. She teaches at a university. So, she'll kind of lead, just kind of like, we'll have a conversation, then people can like ask, so not so like I'm talking at ...

THERAPIST: It's not a lecture.

CLIENT: No, no, no. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No.

THERAPIST: And it's just you and the moderator or there'll be other ...

CLIENT: No.

THERAPIST: ... poets or writers ...

CLIENT: No, no. It's my event.

THERAPIST: Humph, wow. Of course, that's a little nerve wracking.

CLIENT: Yeah. A lit I'm kind of looking forward to it though. I haven't done a reading in a long time. One thing though that I did feel that was hard not to feel for someone like me, like we'd go to these places and it was like, ‘what is going on here?' Like, you know. Like these incredible spaces that clearly these people are making a shitload of fucking money and so it wasn't about jealousy, it wasn't about that. It was more like, ‘what's going on here' in terms of my, I don't know. Something just doesn't add up here in my mind and I'm not sure what that is, but I just feel like for the talent I have and that just bummed me out that I'm somehow, I don't know how I can make more out of what I have. Like last night I had a fucking peanut butter jelly sandwich. I was kind of tired. I picked up my guitar, played it for I don't think it was even an hour. I wrote a song that I fucking love. I just wrote it with Cecelia (sp?) sitting there, whatever. I recorded it. So, it's like what's going on here? I've got a shit like 50 of these, 60 of these, like I don't know. That frustrates me a little bit. I don't know how to ...

THERAPIST: How to what?

CLIENT: Just do something to get them out there more or get more of a following or get more attention. I mean, these jackasses are putting things on You Tube and a month later they have a record label. It's just it's starting to kind of annoy the shit out of me a little bit that and I'm not even talking again, it's not about the money so much, even like some cool, little label that wants to put out it's just like it was hard to see these like 20-somethings making all this money sitting around drawing cBrianons in these ridiculous little Disneyland spaces they've created. I mean, good for them and that's awesome, but it did kind of make me think. I feel frustrated. I stopped myself because you know, this is why you're in therapy because you can't you know you can't go back and be 25, so you got to do just what you're doing now and just do it.

(Pause): [00:16:18 00:16:36]

THERAPIST: It sounds like there are some feelings wrapped up in what got stirred walking into these spaces about what you've been deprived of in your life.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. It was fun and I handled it very well. Like I didn't make a big deal like it was just a passing thing.

THERAPIST: I was just talking about what's in (cross talk) [00:16:52]

CLIENT: Yeah, but, no, it did, it did. It was like who are these fucking douche bags, like just thinking they're something they're not and you know and I would too, I guess if I was 28 and in a fucking bazillion dollar loft space where coffee, beer and you know, games it was like ridiculous, you can only imagine. All those clichés of these New York spaces, yeah, and that just ...

THERAPIST: And they were professional cBrianonists?

CLIENT: These are all production companies. So Kelly's the head of the internship program for video, film and animation at work and you know, she's awesome. She's taken charge of like, why are we not getting more of these students placed? And, it's a big fucking deal. So, she was sent on like a, go and meet with these, yeah, we met with the head of these companies that do a lot of these shows on cBrianon network. They do, they've done stuff for like a lot, for example if you watch certain horror movies, you know I hate these movies where you know it's not just CGI, but there's a lot of, oh, "Life of Pi", that freaking movie about the tiger. So, we went to the place that did, that made that tiger. Yeah, it was a really cool, big fucking time kinds of stuff.

THERAPIST: It's a company, rather than ...

CLIENT: These were all production companies.

THERAPIST: ... like an individual artist's loft space.

CLIENT: No, no, no, no. Yeah, they're production companies, but basically they've, instead of like they're offices, but ...

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah, yeah. An artistic ...

CLIENT: they've taken these loft spaces and made these incredible spaces with incredible furniture and all this shit. So, yeah, there was just a feeling like I know that's not me, like would I have even wanted to do shit like that when I was 28?

THERAPIST: Would you?

CLIENT: I don't think so. I mean I don't think that would have been me. Know what I mean? But it's not really about that. It's more like if the trajectory hadn't been broken the way it was, so traumatically, you know, I don't know. At least maybe I'd be playing shows or I'd have the confidence to send out tapes and CDs way, way, way sooner than I did. I would have kept recording and by now I probably would have been a good, I would have just been able to make my own records in my bedroom the way some of my friends can because I was so into recording. I've kind of lost that desire now. Like I've just, I think it will come back, but, you know. So, yeah, it was like, you know. Or writing. You know, I don't know. Maybe I would have been one of the people to like write for a magazine, I mean, like that kind of thing I could maybe see. Like some kind of free lance writer type deal. Because, I did do a lot of more journalistic kinds of stuff, but I don't know, whatever, but I was kind of sad. I'm grateful for how things have turned out. At least I'm still young enough that I have a road ahead of me and I can do a lot of things, but it's definitely been a harder battle up to this point. Or, a harder battle, kind of like a solitary battle that no one knows about or no one so I don't know, that kind of sucked. And, that's one thing I did find, see, that's a hard one to try to, even if someone that you are falling in love with, like I don't know if, either that or she didn't want to say too much, but I don't know if Kelly really gets that as much. I think she kind of does, but, you know she's close to her mom. I don't think they were ever particularly, I think they were kind of well off, relatively well off, you know. Her dad was bizarre and not a great dad, but it sounds like she had a pretty nice upbringing, whatever. I don't think confidence was ever an issue or anything like that. That's a hard one to try to express to people.

(Pause): [00:21:31 00:21:39]

THERAPIST: How she is doesn't make it sound like confidence has never been an issue with her, keeping her cards close to her chest.

CLIENT: Well, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't mean that she's had some kind of idyllic whatever, but I don't think her parents were ever against her being an artist. She used to be an actress. She used to work in the theater. Like her parents, it sounded like no one ever discouraged her.

THERAPIST: She had a very different kind of support.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. And to me that's enough. Just that is, yeah.

(Pause): [00:22:07 00:22:15]

CLIENT: And she's super tight, like she and her mom are really good friends type, like good. Of course, maybe with her she was the opposite, she wasn't really that way with her dad. Her dad was a very odd, I mean really odd, like the kind of guy that I guess they'd go out and he'd wear like a top hat. Like he'd wear costumes, like really odd, eccentric kind of guy. And for a while he dressed like a cowboy. Yeah, very, very odd kind of guy. Or yeah, I think she understands more, it's not like she doesn't understand.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I think yeah, it's just part of her ...

THERAPIST: That there may be more.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I think there is. Yeah, she's just not a huge talker about emotions. She's very warm and genuine but not like a huge opening up kind of person. And the thing is she knows that. Like that's one thing I we, it's seems like we both have come to that place kind of recently where one way or the other either we've been told or we've realized that we're not as open as we think we are or whatever it is.

(Pause): [00:23:33 00:23:46]

CLIENT: But then I was thinking sometimes in these meetings I was sitting there and it wasn't even that self conscious which felt even better. It was like a fleeting blip on the radar, like wow I feel totally good here. Do you know what I mean? Like, this woman we're talking to is the fucking whatever, CFO whatever she goes between London, New York and L.A. and here we are and I have no, I really don't give a shit. She's not impressing me one way or the other. I'm not nervous that I'm here with my hot girlfriend and we're talking to this dude who's an animator and I'm not worried, oh, what. You know what I mean. I had no and (inaudible) that's huge. I mean for someone like me with all the things I've been through, like that was huge. I felt no.,. [00:24:33]

THERAPIST: There's not so much above or below.

CLIENT: No. No. And I never felt, you know, of course this sounds like, she was really cool, that guy seemed really nice or whatever. I never took it in any other way other than, yeah, that guy was nice. So, that is pretty awesome. So, that means something has changed permanently. Like that's a deep, deep change to be able to sit in a waiting area that looks like it belongs in an architectural digest, you know, mid-century furniture and all this cool, fucking stuff everywhere. The Empire State Building is on the wall or whatever. It felt like, yeah, whatever. I belong here. I belong wherever I belong. I don't give a shit.

THERAPIST: You feel like you're a person amongst people.

CLIENT: And to not feel like I'm tagging along with my hot girlfriend who maybe has a better job or who's more together than I. I didn't feel that way at all. We're together and I was joking. There were a few times when people, depending on how the context was, she'd be like this is my boyfriend, Brian. Or, sometimes she wouldn't say anything, like ‘hey, Kelly,' and they'd just look at me but I'm Brian. So, there were a few times when it sounded like, because I was just quiet, you know. But, they'd be looking at me while they were talking and I'd just nod and I was totally paying attention. And then some of them who were much more polite they'd be like, ‘I'm sorry, what do you do?' you know? And I was like, you know, I didn't care. I'm the boyfriend. I'm here for moral support. And I'd make a joke or I'd, it felt good that I wasn't thinking. I just was not thinking.

THERAPIST: That's a big change.

CLIENT: Yeah, it was huge. And even about the stuff that did make me feel a little bit, those moments where I felt a little sad or like ‘what if' or whatever. Do you ever just kind of they came and went. (Chuckles) You know, whatever. I'm proud of the writer that I am. I'm proud of the songs I write. This is a fucking joke to me, these little artists creating the work, well that's totally different anyway, because then they're artists and I'm an artist so then I don't look at it. But these little, fucking whippersnappers, I don't give a shit if they're making a lot of money and living in New York. I'm going to be writing and making music forever and they're just going to be these business people that either have or don't have a job. I don't care how cool their office space is. I just recognized that it wasn't about that.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: It's just that, but it's sad if you feel like there's been like a decade or two that are just, feel like blanks or something.

THERAPIST: Yeah, but when a connotation of whippershaps like someone who's very young and getting very successful and pushing quickly into something makes you feel, there's some feeling that seeing somebody who's, it doesn't matter what they do really, 28 and pushing hard and young and successful, that's the feeling you're talking about, right?

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: I mean it's so understandable. When you say you'd left your 20s, where did your 20s go?

CLIENT: And my 30s.

THERAPIST: In a daze.

CLIENT: I mean, let's face it. I mean my 30s got better and better and better but it was all work to get to this point.

THERAPIST: But you were saying lately could be the point you might have been when you were (cross talk) (inaudible) [00:28:26]

CLIENT: Whatever. Even 30, I would have taken it. Whatever, but. We went to dinner and hung out with one of her former, like the student who she knows who she's pretty close to. Really nice guy, like this super funny, awesome gay guy and apparently very talented. I don't think he's older than 24, 25? Yeah. Has an amazing fucking job. But again, I felt good about, I literally just looked at him almost like a little brother. I was like man, you should be proud, and I meant it. It was like, you know. Because I know that these things have nothing to do with that person, and I think it makes me feel good to have a sense of compassion because do you know what, if I couldn't I'm glad someone nice could. You know?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah. Even the things he was saying, I could just tell from his background, but of course he was going to get to this point. Even stuff with Kelly was like, ‘what,' like when we were going out he was like I think he like kept all his receipts, like yeah, I write all this stuff off, or whatever. I said, what do you mean and he's like, well my dad taught me you know I can do this as an artist and in my mind I'm like, oh man. How wonderful.

THERAPIST: His dad taught him?

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah, you know? So.

(Pause): [00:29:52 00:30:11]

THERAPIST: You know, jealousy is a normal human emotion, even in total health. People feel jealous of things all the time. Just like anger, just like anxiety about music.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

THERAPIST: It's not (cross talk) something you want to get rid of. [00:30:25]

CLIENT: No, no. If it was I'd say it honestly wasn't jealousy in this case. It is jeal you know where the jealousy is? The jealousy definitely is with music.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah, when I hear some young fucking band or you know, I mean yeah, this is good, I guess, or the level of fanatical following that they have, that kind of stuff does make me jealous, because I'm like, I'm sorry but I'm either just as good or better than this. I'm sorry and I'm being really objective. If we took a fucking poll and you played this shit for a thousand people, they'd like this. And that, yeah, I don't know what to do with that. All I can do is just try to use it as an energy.

THERAPIST: I guess the difference here is jealousy is a kind of mild, fleeting feeling as opposed to envy which is a deeper, more, almost has, carries destructiveness in it. You know?

CLIENT: I always thought it was the opposite.

THERAPIST: [No].

CLIENT: Really?

THERAPIST: I mean maybe, there may be linguistic ...

CLIENT: No, no ...

THERAPIST: ... differences ...

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I just ...

THERAPIST: ... at least in my, the analytic world and is thought of as much more ...

CLIENT: ... insidious ...

THERAPIST: Yeah, and carries with it almost a ...

CLIENT: It's like a grudge or something ...

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yes. You want to even destroy the thing that you want so badly and you can't have ...

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: ... that you even get destructive about it.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: Which is different than, ‘oh, I'm jealous.'

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

THERAPIST: (inaudible) [00:32:01]

CLIENT: Right, right, right. Or the feeling that if I don't have it, I don't want you to have it.

THERAPIST: Which is not what you were feeling with him. You were saying this is something I might have wanted and I didn't get it and I have feelings about that. But you still could be happy for him ...

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: ...that he had it, as a good person that was successful.

CLIENT: And I was genuinely, I felt, because I mean he's so, and I think also is that I love Kelly, so if she speaks so highly of this guy I was proud of him, too. So, it's like, ‘hey, man, really, good for you. You should be proud.' And I think I do enjoy, playing, I've noticed the more compassion I've been feeling I kind of enjoy playing a role that I didn't have for me. Do you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Yes.

CLIENT: Even if it's to a stranger.

THERAPIST: Yes.

CLIENT: I mean, I feel like that little thing, he might remember that, you know. Because I know, I can see how people view me or are a little artistic or even (inaudible), but they're generally impressed with whatever things I might have done, so instead of lording that over them or acting snooty, or whatever, it feels good to be like, okay you view me a certain way, but like I'm proud of you or I say nice, whatever, things, make them feel kind of important or whatever the fuck, that's something I didn't have, so it's nice to do that for people who seem to deserve it. [00:32:59]

And even with music it's not like I want, I don't want the Shins to die in a plane crash.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I just want to open for the Shins or I want to play a bill with, I see no reason why that shouldn't be. Do you know? And that's hard. The only thing that keeps me going is that's how I used to feel with poetry, right? And I did something about it. But, and now I can't legitimately feel that anymore because all's someone would have to say is well, but this is your book, right? So, I'm getting there with music but because music is such a popular art form, even if you do put out a CD, until you feel like you have a certain kind of following, it doesn't have to be huge, but just something, it just that can rub you the wrong way a little bit.

THERAPIST: Getting to the place where you wish you could be and music is much, much, much harder than getting to the place where those 20 year olds are in a production company.

CLIENT: Yeah. Because they're ...

THERAPIST: They're totally different.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Those guys are behind the scenes. I mean at the end of the day they're office workers.

THERAPIST: Right, right.

CLIENT: In glamorous offices, but they're office workers.

THERAPIST: But, they're, it's not as competitive.

CLIENT: You apply for a job and they got a job and they might get fired, they might not. But, when you're talking about art, if yeah I mean. For them it would be the same as them trying to literally create their own carton instead of just filling in something. They're literally people watching (cross talk)

THERAPIST: (inaudible) [00:35:12]

CLIENT: Yeah, I do the hair. I do their mouths, you know, the way their mouths go. That's great but I can see that being some tedious fucking office work.

THERAPIST: It's so huge to be having this change (inaudible) Brian (sp?) because I think even where we were last time you were here a week ago, it might have been two weeks ago, actually, talking about the sequence of your mother's responding to the photo of Kelly and I know that's only one example in your history and it's happened multiple times but it came to me so clear the sequence of her own jealously moving into envy. "Wow, she's so beautiful," she starts off with and then she does move in to destroy the beauty. "Her mouth is so big." That's her own, she's incapable of tolerating her own insecurity in that story and has to destroy the photo, has to destroy Kelly and has done that even to you. She then goes and destroys you in the next comment about well, just hope guys don't chase after her. There's a tremendous amount of destructive envy in your family, in her side of the family. [00:35:33]

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, big time. My aunt's that way. Yeah.

THERAPIST: Rather than be able to say, well of course parents sometimes feel jealous of their own children, they're getting to lead the life you never led or wished you could, but to be able to say, ‘okay, that's my stuff,' and still feel proud and so excited and so encouraging. You did not get that.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: You got squashed.

CLIENT: Yeah.

(Pause): [00:36:59 00:37:31]

CLIENT: Yep. I think the thing that's making me I don't know I do like, more than like, that's putting it mildly, but something is definitely changed in the last year where more and more and more and more like that stuff's somehow not affect not only is it not affecting me, like I said, last night, I don't know I just picked up the guitar and wrote a fucking song I love. Yeah. Regardless of squashing, or you know what I mean, like something's definitely going on where not ...

THERAPIST: It's not squashing you. Not anymore.

CLIENT: Yeah. I was like just getting fucking pummeled by the waves for a while but I got my bearing now. Now I'm back to like, I don't know what's going on there, but I have songs to write and books to write and things to do and I can't, that feels better. The only thing that does happen is like I said, there's these moments where I handle them really well, but like you said, it doesn't mean that things don't get stirred, and that's tough.

THERAPIST: Even if what's getting stirred is just sadness that you're (cross talk)

CLIENT: That's what I mean. Yeah, that's all it is, usually, yeah.

THERAPIST: And in fact, we don't want that not to get stirred. The more you are burying, we're talking about acknowledging and baring the feelings, that's you actually letting in how it feels to see a 28 year old whippersnapper and to know that could have been me at 28 if things had been different. It's really, really sad. But that the more I think you're acknowledging it, really baring that, it loses it's grasp in the present in a way. You've been getting freer and freer and freer to go be yourself.

CLIENT: Right, right.

(Pause): [00:39:36 00:40:32]

THERAPIST: This (inaudible) you've been seeing except with your writing that that, there's still an obstruction.

CLIENT: Yeah. That I don't get. I mean how is it possible to pick up a guitar. I just don't think. I don't know. I guess it's physical and it's a melody and I'm so in love with melodies and I there's just no thought involved. I don't know how or why I wrote that song. I really don't. Like I don't know why I went from this chord to this chord instead of this. I don't know. Yeah, with writing. I think it's getting there. Something's definitely getting knocked loose.

THERAPIST: Well, last you were here something you were connecting much more pointedly to your dad dying and now you could kind of remember yourself being this very avid, prolific writer before and not after, that something got really stuck around the trauma of that that we have still yet to really get into.

CLIENT: You know that writer, Andre DuBois, has a collection of short essays that's so fucking good. I mean he's a great writer. I don't know. That's been speaking to me a lot. There so, like they're short and they're, you know he lost the use of his legs and stuff. He used to be very athletic and stuff like that. I don't know why I'm bringing that up but that's been kind of making me feel like, I can write about this stuff, you know? I just need to not think about it. Like, he didn't sit there and say, ‘oh, this stuff's only two paragraphs, that's not an essay.' You know, like whatever, I wrote this thing. Move onto the next.

(Pause): [00:42:33 00:42:48]

THERAPIST: Something about length.

CLIENT: Yeah, I'm very intimidated by

THERAPIST: That's interesting.

CLIENT: Yeah. I guess that is interesting. Yeah, I had this feeling that after the pages and pages it gets to be. Maybe that's from my mom. Like how long, how many pages is your book?

THERAPIST: As though that's what's important.

CLIENT: Right. I mean, do you know Lydia Davis at all?

THERAPIST: I know the name.

CLIENT: I'd check out her work if I were you. She's amazing. But, yeah, her short story collect-the one I like the most is called, "Almost No Memory" and it's, I mean a page, literally sometimes a few sentences.

THERAPIST: Wow.

CLIENT: And they're incredible little stories. I mean they're unbelievable. Now this woman didn't say, ‘hmm, let's see, if I write each story, that's six sentences, I'd have to write, my book should be 400 pages,' I doubt that was her, she just wrote and wrote and wrote and one day she

had a collection she started piecing together.

(Pause): [00:43:56 00:44:08]

THERAPIST: It's interesting the way you're describing sounds like almost some medium between poetry and prose, or between poetry and short story.

CLIENT: My writing.

THERAPIST: The way you say ...

CLIENT: ... or the stuff I like.

THERAPIST: Stuff you like ...

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah.

THERAPIST: The stuff like what you're thinking doing.

CLIENT: You know the novels I like are like that.

THERAPIST: They're capturing something.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah.

THERAPIST: But it's not actually telling pages and pages of whole stories.

CLIENT: No. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's what it is. That's why I read, because I don't think I could write prose any other way. I'm not a straight narrative type prose writer. I can't keep the poetry out. You know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: So, all the people I like, like Sven Lindqvist, a Swedish essayist, fucking unbelievable. He just numbers each section and they're tiny. You know. And they jump back and forth but they're just stunning. So, I think I just, I need to just try to remember that these people don't sit and say, ‘well I'm going to number it all out,' you know like they're just writing.

(Pause): [00:45:07 00:45:51]

THERAPIST: So, just a couple of things.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: I'm not going to charge you for yesterday. (cross talk)

CLIENT: Wow, thanks.

THERAPIST: You know, do you remember that I have, I think I (inaudible) that I have a vacation policy of three weeks worth of sessions before after that you get charged. I'll just tack that onto, you hardly ever are not here on purpose anyway. [00:46:00]

CLIENT: Okay, thanks, Tricia.

THERAPIST: We're switching also to the new schedule starting next week?

CLIENT: Yep.

THERAPIST: You mentioned you're reading was Wednesday. That's later in the day ...

CLIENT: The evening.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: So we're on for one o'clock on Wednesday.

THERAPIST: So Monday at 10. Monday we're not meeting now.

CLIENT: Oh, right. Wednesdays, Thursday, Friday.

THERAPIST: Wednesday, Thursday and Friday.

CLIENT: Right. Wednesday at one, Thursday at 12:50 ...

THERAPIST: Yep.

CLIENT: ... and ...

THERAPIST: And Friday at 11:30.

CLIENT: Oh, so really all it is, is Wednesday at one.

THERAPIST: Yeah, that's the only thing that's changing.

CLIENT: Got it.

THERAPIST: Our Fridays we'll change again soon starting in March but they'll go later.

CLIENT: All right. Thanks. I'll see you Wednesday.

THERAPIST: See you Wednesday at one.

END TRANSCRIPT