Client "AP", Session 58: March 06, 2013: Client seems to be adjusting to his life as it is. trial

in Psychoanalytic Psychotherapy Collection by Dr. Abigail McNally; presented by Abigail McNally, fl. 2012 (Alexandria, VA: Alexander Street, 2013, originally published 2013), 1 page(s)

TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:


BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: The 16 February bill...

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: ...what I'm doing now is just reflecting all the payments you've made and taking them off and putting under the balances, so it'll keep the running total going.

CLIENT: Cool.

THERAPIST: I also put vacation days.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: Remember we talked about (cross talk)

CLIENT: (inaudible) [00:00:17]

THERAPIST: ...taking three weeks vacation just so you'd know where to tally is. There's two of those so far (cross talk)

CLIENT: Okay. Cool. Thank you. (Pause) What's up?

THERAPIST: I'm good. How are you?

CLIENT: Good. I'm okay. Hanging in there. Feeling a little bit better than last week. Yeah, I don't know. There's a lot going on actually. My consolidation went through, on my loans. So that was cool. I called them it didn't show what I was going to pay every month in the whatever, letter, that said that it was going-so I called them and it looks like it's going to be like 300 bucks a month which is, for all the loans I have, that's amazing. So, I think it'll be good although I don't understand why I'm-I guess because it hasn't kicked in yet, it takes like 15 days or 30 days or whatever, because I'm still getting calls from like Sallie Mae and I'm like, yeah, I don't know what, yeah.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: So, anyway. That's okay. At least it's taken care of.

THERAPIST: That's huge.

CLIENT: Yeah, basically the first thing I'm going to do is write to them, but okay, how's this work on my credit report? Like how do I, all that default shit and whatever, so yeah, that's really big, I mean it is now, it's like two or three hundred dollars that I need to make sure that that's never a fucking problem, you know. But that's, I mean, whatever, that's fine. So, I mean, yesterday I was pretty stressed about money, that's the only thing because I have to make my next payment to the disc manufacturer so that I really have no, almost, pretty much no money in my account, which hasn't happened in a long time. So, that's very stressful, but I don't know, for some reason I'm okay, yeah. I'm doing things. I don't have money because I'm paying things, you know, getting things done, so. I've just somehow got to make it till next Friday, you know.

THERAPIST: You paid that without having to ask someone for a loan.

CLIENT: Exactly. Exactly. That was the other thing. I took care of it. I talked to them and they're like, ‘you know what, they were like, ‘can you pay us like 51 percent? can you pay us,' you know, and I did, and then this was the second payment. So I mean that feels good. Yeah, things are getting done. And it is kind of cool that I was thinking about it and I mean, by default I'm paying things with cash. But my credit card's like I don't have a huge limit so it's close to the, you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: But I mean yeah, I might be broke but it does feel kind of good to just, you know, paying for shit. Do you know what I mean? I'm not like, put that on this credit card, put that on this one, you know, that's what a lot of people do. So, it's just going to suck for just until next Friday until I kind of sort some things out, but...

THERAPIST: Even with your loans getting, and then the idea's now that you're actually making headway.

CLIENT: Big time.

THERAPIST: And not going further into debt...

CLIENT: No, no.

THERAPIST: ...trying to...

CLIENT: The opposite.

THERAPIST: ...break even breaking even can feel crappy, but

CLIENT: No, no. No, no.

THERAPIST: ...you're also not going in debt.

CLIENT: No, no, no, it feels really good. Yeah, it feels really good. But because when I think about it, really that is my debt. I mean if like let's say, if I was in a different head space and I had just kept up with these student loans, you know, I have no other debt. It's not like I have a gazillion credit cards and I'm like all over the place. You know, now it's just one bill. I have this one other credit card but that's one credit-it's got like a $1500 balance. It's no big deal. So, that's, that's pretty good shape, you know, so. But you know, at the same time it is annoying, I mean like fuck, I literally have to count like and do I have enough money to go to Starbucks five days this week or whatever? That's getting old, but like you said that's really shitty when there's nothing good going on financially (laughs) you know what I mean? You're spinning your wheels but sometimes you got to make some sacrifices to make things happen. So, that's really good. And things with Kelly are really great like she told me over the weekend that she told her son about me and so that was really nice. And, I saw her last night. I went to have some drinks with her. And we talked about it. Because she, and I'm glad I brought it up because see, sometimes I still don't know. She told me that when she told me in the car I guess my reaction was pretty subdued, because when she told me I thought okay well it's best not to be dramatic or so it was like, ‘oh, that's really nice, thank you,' or something like that. And I just was like mellow but sweet about it but I just kind of didn't need a big-so last night when I brought it up she was like, ‘yes, in the car when I,' and I was like, ‘oh, shit,' is she going to break up with me now. I was like, ‘oh, damn,' like, no I was doing the-I was trying to...

THERAPIST: Temper things.

CLIENT: Yeah, I was trying to temper things because I was like, ‘I know you don't, you know you're not a very dramatic person, you don't like to make a fuss out of stuff, so I just thought that's cool and I was, like it was brave enough even for you to tell me that and to do that, so I just thought it's best to, you know. Yeah, and she was like, you know it's like he's going to be staying at his dad's. You know you could stay at my place if you want. It's like you know, my brother's there, but, I don't know, it's huge.

THERAPIST: That's huge, too.

CLIENT: Yeah, very huge. First time. She has not told her son, introduced or invited anyone she's dated in four years since her divorce. I really respect that, like she's like I'm just not-like my ex has some different ideas about that, but I just feel like that's, he's my priority and that's, you know, and I was like, ‘yeah, I feel the same.' I mean, like even for me I'm protective of myself, too. I'm good with kids and like, you know, not that I get so attached, but you know, they're kids and I was like I tend to form a bond and I was like I wouldn't want that to be, ‘cause he's a 12 year old kid and like that's, I was like, ‘you're doing-you're an amazing mom,' so that's cool. So that's good.

THERAPIST: You respect the way she's done, but you (inaudible) holds you. [00:07:36]

CLIENT: Exactly. Yeah, I was saying, yeah like it's not just the way you're handling it but also just the way together we're, I mean that's what we were talking about last night, she was like, ‘yeah, you know I just thought it was time,' and she said like, ‘I just love how we've,' you know things have been so good and we're not, I don't know we don't rush anything, you know like major talks or whatever. Even when we do we kind of talk about, but kind of just agree, we're just like, ‘yeah, things are pretty fucking awesome,' I don't know. You know what I mean? Like it's so, like yeah, no, also I just, after what happened with Michelle and stuff it just, you know I still think about her kid, you know what I mean, like that's for me and for him, now that Grey's going to grow up like, there was this guy and then there was this other boyfriend because she clearly introduces them very quickly so it's just like, I don't know, so anyway, that's really cool. Although now, not immediately, but at some point if things continue doing so well, there's just going to be a shitty throw down with my mom, you know. I'm not looking forward to that. But, oh well. Maybe she'll handle it better than I think, I don't know. She's not over the moon, but she's pretty, at least she's not really saying any more shitty things about dating a non-Assyrian or anything. (inaudible) [00:09:18]

THERAPIST: That she holds so many feelings of layers of meaning about non-Assyrian, divorced ...

CLIENT: ...or having a kid, yeah, yeah.

THERAPIST: (inaudible) [00:09:32]

CLIENT: There are a few good things. One there are plenty of people she knows whose kids are divorced. I mean that's so, to even have to, you know what I mean? Two, I gotta say it's going to help that Kelly owns her house. She has an awesome job like she wants nothing. She doesn't need me. She doesn't need our fucking house, you know what I mean? So I think that's going to help. She has a single family, beautiful home. She doesn't need your, you know what I mean? And beyond that, whatever, she's just going to have to deal with it, I don't know. But I am going to put it off until, I think that's way down the road where if Kelly, if it comes to an actual family get-like their actually talking, you obviously Kelly might bring it up, you know, whatever, I mean it's her son, so I would have to tell them, but anyway, yeah, so that's ...

(Pause): [00:10:32 [00:10:36]

CLIENT: Oh. And, she-did I tell you about the art fair thing?

THERAPIST: Uh uh.

CLIENT: So the tee-shirt business?

THERAPIST: Um hmm?

CLIENT: Kelly was like, ‘oh you know what? There's this art fair every year that's huge. It attracts like 30,000 people. And I didn't know. Oh, really, I'd never heard of it. So, she's like, ‘but you have to apply when you're a student or faculty, or whatever and you get picked to be able to have a merch (ph) table or whatever. So, like at the deadline she's like, ‘I'm going to submit something. I'm going to say, tee-shirts,' you know, whatever, and she got picked. And it's like, ‘how the fuck did you do that?' and she was like, ‘I don't know, I just sent them one of my drawings and I said it's going to be something like this.' And of course it was this amazing drawing, you know. So, that's kind of real now like that's going to happen. I mean even if we just make a few hundred dollars, whatever, that'll be a sign that, you know. And her girlfriend told her about a place that will let us do the silk screening ourselves like for almost nothing, so, which I don't know anything about that stuff which she was like, ‘yeah, it has to be, we got to do it right,' you know to make, you know. But, anyway, so that's cool. Yeah. And I like that she's thoughtful like that, know what I mean? Like she, it's really cool. [00:11:04]

THERAPIST: Thoughtful and she followed through and (inaudible) [00:12:13]

CLIENT: Yeah, she's cool. She's definitely like in the last week or two I think that since she decided I think to tell her son, it's definitely, like last night she was much more, not much more, but her jokes were a little more like sassy and something, you know what I mean? Even at the bar Saturday night she kind of like told this chick off, kind of? This girl, we were in the south end. You know some of those people are just fucking douchy down there. She went to the bathroom, the place was crowded, so these cackling chicks were doing shots and one of them took Kelly's seat, kind of like really close, next to me and even before I could turn to say, ‘hey, you know that's my-' Kelly was right there and she goes, ‘ah yeah.' She goes like this and I guess the girl, I didn't hear, it was so loud, I guess the girl said, ‘well, that's rude,' and Kelly was like, ‘yeah, get out of my chair.' Like she's very fucking, that shit is like, but I don't know, I kind of like that, like she was like, ‘no fucking bitch is-', I like that, that's kind of like, you know, around here people are a little more icy about shit like that. I like that she's like, ‘yeah, you fucking sit next to my boyfriend, I'll punch you in the face,' you know, like...

THERAPIST: (Chuckles)

CLIENT: I don't know, it's just something refreshing about that.

(Pause): [00:13:31 00:13:37]

THERAPIST: It feels like she's been looser, almost.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Something that like feels safer.

CLIENT: Yeah. I think that we're both, as we both decide more and more and more that wow, this is the real deal, you know, but yeah, you just kind of...

(Pause): [00:13:49 00:13:59]

CLIENT: (Deep breath) And then I have a good blog post on the blog of poetry about my event. I kind of took some ideas and did a blog post about it so that they're linked to the video. I took the fucking video and I made and edited version of just my reading. They're going to link it to that and make it really nice like some reviews of my book and links to like some site for that, too, so that's going to go up Friday. So, I don't know, so things are moving along. [00:14:04]

THERAPIST: Yeah, I was going to say, ooh oh. (Laughs)

CLIENT: What?

THERAPIST: I said I almost want to say, oh ooh, things are going too well again.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, no, no. It's not going to well, trust me. I'm very, yeah, yeah, it's all tempered.

THERAPIST: No, I don't mean, I just mean going well in reality. I don't mean in a fantasy, it's really ...

CLIENT: Oh, yeah, it's really going well.

THERAPIST: Like even that is (inaudible) [00:14:49]

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, no, and even like Jason, I finally contacted, he finally got back to me,

THERAPIST: (inaudible) [00:14:57]

CLIENT: It was a little, I don't know what's going on there. It was a little odd. I got in touch with him about this anthology idea and he got back to me and was like, ‘well you know, the blog doesn't do themed anthologies and I was like, ‘oh, okay, I didn't realize that, sorry.' Then I contacted him about the Assyrian anthology thing that we'd already, you know, didn't hear back, so I don't know. I don't know what's going on with that, but I think I'm a little confused as to what, where we stand. You know, I don't know if he's just real busy or maybe he feels like, ‘you know, I'm not there anymore and unless he sees is just waiting to see, like, ‘all right, well show me something' and I don't know, but. But even that somehow didn't bug me. You know because it was like, ‘well, you know what?' even if I never published another book with them who the-I already did. (Laughs). So, now it's time to publish with some other publisher if that's the case. Even with the anthology, right after I sent it and I didn't hear I was like, ‘what am I doing? Why haven't I pitched this idea to other publishers? It was like, what-so I don't know. I don't know what's going on, but I was like, 'ay, fuck it.' I mean obviously I'm still welcome in the sense that they're featuring me on their blog and all this stuff.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: So, it could just be, I mean it even could be that poor guy, he's like well that sounds great but I haven't seen the work. So it's maybe just or it could be nothing, he's just busy or whatever.

THERAPIST: Are you worried about something, like?

CLIENT: I'm not worried, I mean, you know, I'd like to keep publishing with them, you know, so I ...

THERAPIST: So, you're worried he's mad at you?

CLIENT: I'm not worried he's mad. I guess I am worried that he's just moved on and he's found some other young poets that he's taking under his wing and you know. I don't know if it's really a worry, it's just, it feels unclear and I guess I knew one way or the other a little bit, like where I stand. But, I guess actions speak louder than words. I mean he's copied on all those e-mails about the blog and all that, so I'm assuming if there was something wrong he'd make up some excuse and have them not use my...

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah.

CLIENT: So. You, know, I think it's a combination of that he's very busy and he's probably a little bit, just being a little chilly in terms of like, ‘oh, but where's your work? What are you producing?' So I think, yeah. Although, I don't know. It does annoy me a little bit but at least get back to somebody.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: So I don't know what...

THERAPIST: That's what I mean. It sounds like you're, there's something gone-it's not, it's probably not nothing, but you're picking up on something or else (cross talk) (inaudible) [00:18:06]

CLIENT: Yeah, I'm just making sure that he's aware that it's something very minor, whatever it is. He's not ruminating over shit, it's just he's, it's just a little e-mail etiquette.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah, like just get back to somebody. I sent him new poems. Just say something. And like why are you getting back to me randomly about this one anthology idea? I don't even understand, like, so I don't know what any of this...

THERAPIST: And also you said there were other e-mails then you say?

CLIENT: No, I sent him like one other one that was like, ‘hey, it's been a long time. How are you? Happy New Year, blah, blah, blah. Here's some new poems. Here's what's going on. And I didn't hear back. You know, so. Why this one. I have no idea, but.

Whatever. It is a thing, but it's not...

THERAPIST: It doesn't mean it isn't your responsibility.

CLIENT: No, not at all. No.

THERAPIST: Even if it is whatever is going on inside him, (inaudible) [00:18:58]

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, yeah, no. That's exactly what (inaudible) well, I already did publish with them and that's always going to be there. And, it's about-I need to find a U.S. publisher anyway. So, you know.

THERAPIST: Do you think he has feelings about your not finishing the program yet, or wanting to...?

CLIENT: Maybe he does but even that, like you know?

THERAPIST: I'm not saying that justifies his actions. Is that what you're imagining?

CLIENT: Yeah, I am a little worried that basically the things I have felt in the past about my self he's feeling. You know, this guy doesn't follow through, that kind of stuff. But, now that things have changed, it's like wait a minute. First of all I was-I mean if it ever came down to it I would very gently say, ‘well you know, you clearly told me even before I moved to England that there would eventually be funding. Right? And there wasn't. I had no problem with the program. If that program was completely paid for then I could stay there over the summers or I had money to visit Boston three times a year, or whatever, just a little more of, why wouldn't I finish it. There's no reason not to finish it. But this going back and forth and there's no money and like, yeah, even if I do my dissertation you got to pay for that shit. I'd have to pay for another two years or whatever. You know what I mean. So it's like he could feel that way, but I've gone into a lot of debt when he said, and the reason I didn't make a stink about it was because he published my book. And to me that outweighs a PhD, you know. So I don't know if it's that. I really don't know. I have no-it could be a little bit of each of those things. I don't think it's anything major, but-I do think it's a little bit of like-and also he's older. He's not at London anymore. So, he's kind of moved on. He's older. He's got a few other younger poets he's probably-who are actually there and you know that's fine, it's not a personal thing.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

(Pause): [00:21:16 00:21:26]

CLIENT: You know I think what will happen next is like when I have a big, big chunk of the book done I'll be like I'd just kind of would like to know like are you interested in the next book or should I be, you know I'm already looking at a U.S. publisher but should I go to another publisher in the UK? I don't know why he would want that. I mean why would you want me to go to a competing-who the hell knows what he's thinking.

(Pause): [00:21:52 00:21:58]

CLIENT: I think overall everything's fine basically.

THERAPIST: It sounds like it.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, I think everything's fine. Because even the blog guy, okay, you know he was like, ‘this is an amazing piece, it's perfect, blah, blah, blah.' And, I know Jason, Jason doesn't-everything goes through Jason, you know. So,

THERAPIST: He's on all of this.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. He's copied on.

THERAPIST: It's not about your work.

CLIENT: No, no, he's copied on all that shit.

THERAPIST: It sounds like (inaudible) [00:22:24]

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. And I already had a blog post before this.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: So. So that's good. And the record releases next week. I'm nervous about that because again, we're having some practice fucking issues now and I just wrote e-mails, like, ‘listen, I don't care when we practice, but that means we're just going to have to, even if it's one long, long night,' you know. We have like 90 percent of the set down very comfortably so I guess they feel like we're going to nail it. But there are a couple of new songs and regardless I just want us to, so yeah, the drummer, as soon as next week's over I got to figure out the drummer situation. It's not all his fault, but I'm going to have to, I'm just going to send him a friendly e-mail and be like, 'hey, man, you know, are you into this,' or, you know.

(Pause): [00:23:27 00:23:33]

CLIENT: But, yeah, I got a replacement for the show who's actually better than the one I had. She was very nice, she was very excited. Even that, I'm kind of like, ‘whatever, man,' it's a stupid rock and roll show, it's not like we're playing the stadium or something. I'm just psyched up the record's going to be out. That's what's important. Although, see, that's what the money, that's you know I've not been able to pay the P.R. people for the last two months, so you know. It's just like, so they're not really, I don't think they're doing much, do you know what I mean? So, I don't know, we'll see what happens.

(Pause): [00:24:20 00:24:25]

CLIENT: It's not a big deal. I mean whatever things they were doing in some ways I can do those things. It's just extra, a little extra work.

(Pause): [00:24:31 00:25:00]

CLIENT: Yeah, so I don't like, the one thing I was thinking of those, like on my way here was like, ‘what is this, why was it so bad some days last week and now it's, I'm not skipping down the street but it's way better? Like why am I not so anxious and jittery now? But I guess maybe that is part of, that's how life is, I mean that's every week can't be exactly the same, you might have one or two weeks where you just feel stressed and overwhelmed and ...

THERAPIST: Yes. And there's usually a reason why or some reasons why (inaudible) [00:25:43]

CLIENT: Yeah, maybe there were some triggers last week that then kind of faded away, I don't know.

THERAPIST: Like the couch? Remember?

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah.

THERAPIST: Remember we talked about doing that?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Or what we were talking about I guess Friday about so many layers of meaning about am I pushing the couch, am I being like your mother in some way, implying you're not doing it right, you're not being a good patient. That could set off a whole kind of movement into a place of self criticism in relation to her, in relation to me, to her and me. That once we talked about it kind of shifted things. You remember last week we talked about, maybe even no, about not coming in on Wednesday and stayed up late Tuesday night.

CLIENT: Right, right.

THERAPIST: And that takes on a life of its own and you're tired, you're worn down.

CLIENT: But see, even that seems to (inaudible) I mean, I went to bed late last night and I was up like at 10. I mean not that that's early, but you know. If you don't need to be anywhere or whatever. It's not ... [00:26:52]

THERAPIST: It's not one.

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: So, even that, I guess, but even that I think, I guess depending on where you are mentally...

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: ...you could go to bed late and wake up early because you're in just a different head space, I don't know, but.

(Pause): [00:27:18 00:27:23]

THERAPIST: Part of what you're saying is you know almost (inaudible) physical factors, you can take on the physical ... [00:27:27]

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: ...if you're in one place and another becomes a way to withdraw.

CLIENT: Right, right, right, right.

(Pause): [00:27:31 00:27:57]

THERAPIST: What's it like when I remind you of the couch right now and remembering the conversations last week? As you were thinking about it for a moment it sounded like you didn't have that in mind at all.

CLIENT: No, I didn't.

(Pause): [00:28:09 00:28:16]

THERAPIST: Then when I say it is it shocking?

CLIENT: Yeah, no, my-yeah, you know. I think ‘cause even I wasn't even thinking about it last week so I got it intellectually, but it ...

THERAPIST: Right, right.

CLIENT: ... didn't make me, you know.

(Pause): [00:28:29 00:29:34]

CLIENT: (Barely audible) Yeah, I don't know. It's crazy. And I definitely do feel more (Pause) like now when I think of things like my projects, whatever suddenly, not suddenly, but I've gotten to the point now where I think, yeah, that's doable or, you know what I mean? Like that was a big moment. What the fuck am I doing? Of course I want them, but why are we not pitching thing-I, it's strange, yeah, it doesn't, it's like that's a great project that I think a few other publishers would be interested in.

(Pause): [00:30:19 00:30:45]

THERAPIST: (inaudible)

CLIENT: Well, I had two ideas. The one is I wanted to for a while now I've been thinking I wanted to do an anthology of poems related to like, trauma. There's maybe like one or two anthologies that do like grief and things like that, but they're a little bit, not self help-ish, but there's something kind of watered down about them. I was thinking like a really good anthology like poems dealing with mourning, loss, individual trauma, collective trauma. I thought that could be a really interesting anthology. But, the other bigger one, that I think is much more urgent is that you know 2015 is going to be the hundredth anniversary of the Assyrian genocide so that's a per-that's crazy-so that's a perfect time to do my Assyrian-Turkish, I mean, that's so timely and that's kind of a step forward in a kind of bridge dialogue kind of thing. So, I mean, I don't, I would think Jason would jump at that, but I don't know. We'll see, we'll see.

(Pause): [00:32:00 00:32:05]

CLIENT: But I'm going to pitch it to some other. I mean, there is an anthology like that and all living writers, not dead writers, people that are, you know.

THERAPIST: Yes.

CLIENT: So.

THERAPIST: (inaudible) think it's open, could bring this to (inaudible) and figure it out [00:32:23]

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What I'm trying to figure out now is how do you, I don't know how to pitch an anthology. Do you need an agent for that? I don't know how that works, but. Whatever, I'll figure it out. Just because, and I hate to say it, but even from a marketing perspective, you know a hundred years after a major historical event, you know, I don't know, on a number of levels it would be I think very valuable.

(Pause): [00:32:57 00:33:07]

THERAPIST: It feels like a good idea for many reasons.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, poetically, for the poetry and just historically from a business point of view, but kind of, you know, poetry doesn't sell that much, but there'd be a market.

(Pause): [00:33:23 00:33:35]

CLIENT: And I think what I might do as I look into it more is that I might just write to Jason and be like, ‘so, are you okay?' You know, I need to move forward with this because by the time it even comes out it would be at least a year from now...

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: ...and it's 2013, so you know, just to give him the courtesy.

(Pause): [00:33:58 00:34:05]

CLIENT: But yeah, I just figure, you know, if you have like 20 poets, 20 Assyrian, 20 Turkish poets, that's 80, right? Four to five whatever poems from each, you know. That's a hefty book, you know. It would be nice.

THERAPIST: Um hmm.

CLIENT: Got some meat to it. And a lot of cross section of...

(Pause): [00:34:30 00:34:56]

THERAPIST: And I know you're not thinking in the self-help mien at all but that's a (inaudible) if you went to a marketplace on a trauma site.

CLIENT: The trauma one?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah. I think yeah, I think it could be used not just in poetry, but yeah, I mean, of course on some level I would want it to...yeah, absolutely.

THERAPIST: I mean self-help is hokey, I just, the capacity for poetry...

CLIENT: Exactly.

THERAPIST: ...to capture experiences...

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah.

THERAPIST: ...very hard to put into words.

CLIENT: That's right.

THERAPIST: Trauma is one of those experiences.

CLIENT: Exactly.

THERAPIST: There's so much unnamable.

CLIENT: Exactly. Especially if poems from all over the world and showing that there is a threat, like, rape and genocide aren't that different on some level.

THERAPIST: Yes, yes.

CLIENT: Or, you know, or even to see that neglect is trauma. Like there are all kinds of traumas. Poverty, you know. So, I don't know, that could be ...

(Pause): [00:35:50 00:35:56]

THERAPIST: Very powerful.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah.

THERAPIST: I mean from sitting in this chair.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah.

THERAPIST: (inaudible) [00:36:00]

CLIENT: And that's what I was thinking, that there could be two introductory essays or something. One from like a psychologist or something who's also into literature or something like that and then something from me that's more of the kind of art poetry side of connection. (Pause) So I think what I might do is just pitch both ideas at the same time.

(Pause): [00:36:27 00:37:47]

CLIENT: It's funny, all this like better stuff has been happening the more I've really like kind of separated myself from my family. It's interesting. Such a basic, like, psychological thing, but in my case it's very important. Like I don't even, I don't want to say ‘miss' but like I don't, like once I made the decision that I need to kind of separate a little bit, yeah, it was like I don't feel like the way I did in London, whatever, like oh, I've missed-I think because I'm here and I'm happy here in my own life so I don't feel, you know what I mean, like some dingy UK city to where it's easier to fall into the traps of feeling homesick or whatever.

(Pause): [00:38:55 00:39:05]

CLIENT: I almost don't even want to talk to my uncle about the tie business thing or whatever. But, I mean, I have to. I don't (inaudible) and at least that's something that he would be interested in, I mean it's his turf, so you know it would be fine. I think he'd be excited about it, but it's almost like I don't ... [00:39:12]

(Pause): [00:39:27 00:39:46]

THERAPIST: (inaudible) separating physically growing out of your separating psychologically whether with him or not with him...

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: ...together and having a conversation or not.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

THERAPIST: ... you've been finding you are (inaudible) [00:40:01]

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: ...all in (inaudible) mind. [00:40:03]

CLIENT: Yeah, even when I do hang out with him or whatever I'm just kind of like, I'm just not, I'm more of an observer now than anything, like whatever. (Pause) And, I'm also more blunt. You know, even if my mom starts telling me shit about what's going on in Assyria, I'm really like, you know, Mom, I really don't' care. It's like I really don't care what's going on in Assyria, and I don't. I really don't. That's like saying, I mean, yeah, I'm sorry, whatever, if there's bad political, like-that's like saying that shit's everywhere, it doesn't particularly, I just don't feel this thing that they feel about Assyrian politics. It interests me as a, you know, I want it to do well, but I don't feel this weird either genuine or fake nationalism that people feel, you know, just like if you care that much then you really should go live there and then you don't have to talk about it you can just be a part of that society and help it.

(Pause): [00:41:1 00:42:22]

THERAPIST: It's good to be free, but it's sad, too.

CLIENT: Yeah. I mean it's weird. There are moments where it feels more alone kind of, but I'm noticing more and-like yesterday, was it yesterday or the day before-I was at my apartment or whatever and I had this moment, one of those moments where like, ‘wow, when my mom dies that will be it.' You know what I mean? And then it went even further it was like, yeah, even your old Assyrian friends, like wow, umph, like that's you know, but for some reason I was able to rein it in, you know, it was like, yeah, well one day I'm going to die, too. What does that mean? That's, I, have a shitload of friends and networks and yeah, unfortunately, some people, whatever, I mean we're all going to go somehow. So, yeah, doesn't it somehow, somehow it's not. It's very sad, but somehow it's not that terrifying.

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah.

(Pause): [00:43:29 00:43:44]

CLIENT: And I think it's simply because when you're feeling so much better you occupy, you enjoy your alone time because you're doing the important shit that you care about, so you know, like it's very, very different.

(Pause): [00:43:58 00:44:06]

CLIENT: I mean it's, think about that. It's a sea change where I used to feel a little-oh, I've got to go to a bar, right? I'd be up all the ti by myself, you know? And yeah, I knew bartenders. Or it's not like I was alone like drinking in a corner or something, but now it's like what? First of all that never happens now, but even if I just, like just hop in the car, even then I'm trying to be productive, I'm listening to songs and working on them. I got my Dunkin. I just drive around and I go home. Like it's a very different, you know, way to be.

(Pause): [00:44:38 00:44:50]

THERAPIST: It's the only way to feel good about yourself and to have that chance to hope to feel good in your own skin again is to have your mother there even at night as a kid and terrifying (inaudible) about themselves, about the world, about parents, whatever it is that's going on here, that transition we were talking about that leads to sleep gets very scary when that's overwhelming and if you need your mother there to soothe that literally there, and then she dies, it's terrifying. You're absolutely abandoned to terrifying aloneness for the rest of your life. There's something that sounds like there's more inside you that's almost self-soothing where it's just not quite as scary as before. There's a little (inaudible) that feels loving towards yourself. [00:45:07]

CLIENT: Exactly.

(Pause): [00:46:03 00:46:12]

THERAPIST: See you tomorrow.

CLIENT: Um hmm. 12:50. Bye, Tricia. Thank you. Have a good day.

THERAPIST: You to, see you then.

END TRANSCRIPT

1
Abstract / Summary: Client seems to be adjusting to his life as it is.
Field of Interest: Counseling & Therapy
Publisher: Alexander Street Press
Content Type: Session transcript
Format: Text
Original Publication Date: 2013
Page Count: 1
Page Range: 1-1
Publication Year: 2013
Publisher: Alexander Street
Place Published / Released: Alexandria, VA
Subject: Counseling & Therapy; Psychology & Counseling; Health Sciences; Theoretical Approaches to Counseling; Psychological issues; Teoria do Aconselhamento; Teorías del Asesoramiento; Sources of trauma; Adult adjustment; Psychoanalytic Psychology; Psychoanalysis
Clinician: Abigail McNally, fl. 2012
Keywords and Translated Subjects: Teoria do Aconselhamento; Teorías del Asesoramiento
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