TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: Oh, my goodness. Do you like it?

CLIENT: I think it came out really well.

THERAPIST: It looks awesome.

(Pause):

CLIENT: Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, my friend just texted me. He's like, it's already on Spotify (sp?).

THERAPIST: Ah ha. Wow.

(Pause): [00:00:15 00:00:21]

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Oh, my goodness.

CLIENT: (Laughing)

THERAPIST: I will listen to it.

CLIENT: Thanks. Thanks. Yeah.

THERAPIST: How do you feel?

CLIENT: Better. Yeah. Better. Up until maybe yesterday or the day before rehearsal I'd just been like super wound up. I think there's like too much, like it's a lot to take in. The record. The release show. The poetry events. There's just a lot going Jason got back to me about the anthology.

THERAPIST: Really.

CLIENT: And like he wants to do it if it's -

THERAPIST: Really?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: I thought he said they don't do anthologies.

CLIENT: The Eastern Europe one.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: Yeah. That one.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: I mean they do anthologies if it's like original content and it's not thematic like trauma or, you know, if you do an anthology of like contemporary Italian poets they'll do that.

THERAPIST: They'll do that. Got it.

CLIENT: So that's there's just a I don't know, I'm just like a little off. This is what I was really like I think for a day or two I've had my like, I almost felt both euphoric and kind of let down a little bit. But then yesterday we had such a good rehearsal. I mean it just went to another level that now I'm nervous about Saturday but now I'm just really excited.

THERAPIST: It's this Saturday.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Oh, wow.

CLIENT: So yeah, no I felt good, I mean, I don't know, but man, it's yeah, it feels pretty amazing.

THERAPIST: So many accomplishments and movement.

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

THERAPIST: And expressions.

CLIENT: Suddenly it's like everything's taken a leap so you know, it's a little intense. See, I've been, I mean, I've been having those days where I feel like I can't breathe and stuff, just like feeling kind of yucky and focusing on the physical a little bit, not sleeping very well at all. Now, I'm just excited. So, I'm just I'm not sleepy. Like I'm up like plus the businesses I want to do like -

THERAPIST: Laughs

CLIENT: Like it's just so much.

THERAPIST: (Cross talk) (inaudible) [00:02:43]

CLIENT: Fuck. Yeah. It's just a lot of stuff. So, I'm just I don't know. It's like this has never happened to me so I'm trying to figure out how to be, kind of.

THERAPIST: You are in a way already doing two businesses on the side.

CLIENT: Yeah, right.

THERAPIST: Plus your job.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: So, the idea of bringing in, even though it was a good idea, it's just -

CLIENT: Right, right, right, right.

THERAPIST: it's just lots to be thinking about.

CLIENT: Right. Right, right.

(Pause): [00:03:02 00:03:11]

CLIENT: Yeah, so I don't know. I mean it's like a funny place where like I mostly feel pretty good, but I just feel, like wound up.

(Pause): [00:03:19 00:03:23]

CLIENT: But I keep reminding myself that it would be weird if I wasn't, I mean there's a lot of shit going on. Oh, being excited about my novel. Did I tell you that story? I met so the woman who moderated the reading is the wife of the guy that I do you know what I'm talking about? Yeah. The novel idea that's I've had since forever, the germ of it, the kernel of it came from him. So, not that he said, ‘write a novel,' he just said something that then kind of blew my mind that gave me an idea. But, I've been kind of almost willing to share this with her because you know, the husband died and all that, it's like such a personal thing and no one knows that, so she and I have decided to do a little writer's like maybe meet like once or every other week or whatever, yeah, because she's working on a novel, too. So, this last on Monday she showed me a chunk of her work, whatever, and I told her about my novel and she was blown away. You know, it was like you know it was like, her husband kind of inadvertently gave me this idea so I've always but anyway so she had explained the idea and like a kind of a plot and whatever and she was just I mean I respect her opinion. She was like, ah, she was like, ‘I love it.' She said, ‘you have to write that. You have to finish that.' So like there's that. I'm just like, excited about all these weird it's like the dam broke or something.

(Pause): [00:05:10 00:05:19]

THERAPIST: Like years and years of all this pent up stuff that you know you have inside that all of a sudden is getting to come out.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah.

THERAPIST: It's rushing.

CLIENT: Right. Right, right.

THERAPIST: So having to keep your head above water is -

CLIENT: And in some ways it should because -

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: time is of the essence a little bit, so you know it's like it's a good thing, but it's definitely like you know, even good things can be exhausting or cause anxiety or -

THERAPIST: Of course. It's like hard work.

CLIENT: Yeah.

(Pause): [00:05:53 00:06:01]

THERAPIST: Also, you're so not used to (inaudible) [00:06:05]

CLIENT: Right, right, right.

THERAPIST: It's like you stepped into another world where the sky is red.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

THERAPIST: The grass was purple and you, it's just, and everything's different. It's just a lot of newness to take in emotionally.

CLIENT: It's like being in a parallel you know I was thinking you know that show, Fringe it's like that. It's like you know it's like going into the parallel universe where that version of you is doing fine. (Laughs) It's doing much better, or whatever. It's weird.

(Pause): [00:06:38 00:07:02]

CLIENT: Oh, yeah. I mean that's I think I need to be careful of not like letting it literally cause anxiety attacks or something. Do you know what I mean? Like, ‘cause it's been pretty I've been like really high anxiety, really.

THERAPIST: What does it feel like when you do that?

(CLIENT: Well, it's it could be like not an anxiety attack which is prolonged you know, tightness, feeling like you can't breathe, feeling kind of I mean it messes with you feeling yucky, you know you're even having like tummy aches or sleeping stuff or appetite stuff. You know, just and just feeling exhausted all the time and yet exhausted but the engine won't stop running so it's kind of like, you know. It makes me think about like everything's too good something really bad is going to I mean not the way I used to think that, but in the back of my mind there's you know.

(Pause): [00:08:11 00:08:26]

CLIENT: But really the thing that's really changed is that's just a minor thing now instead of the other way around. Now the big part of my is things are going to happen. There's a part of me that's like this is nothing. This is just getting started, like real things are going to happen, like, and maybe that's what's maybe it's like anticipatory anxiety, you know.

(Pause): [00:08:51 00:09:01]

THERAPIST: There's something about it that sounds a bit it doesn't feel yet though like it's just being yourself every day, whether it's being busy, being really, really stretched as you're doing so many things. There's a lot that's still sort of pent up about the future somehow. Even if now you're envisioning the future because good things are going to happen.

CLIENT: Right. Right.

THERAPIST: It's still -

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: There are a lot of pressures somehow still.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. Well, I don't know if it's pressure because it's maybe, yeah, I don't know.

THERAPIST: What were you going to say?

CLIENT: Well, I don't know if it's like pressure or just like fear or you know.

THERAPIST: Fear of?

CLIENT: That you know, that's it's going to get better and better and that means I'll have to be more, deal with more people and be like a little more public either if it's a show or if it's whatever. I mean just everything. I don't know. Just a and I'm kind of trying not to think about it because you can't you just have to do what you're doing and you can't you know.

(Pause): [00:10:19 00:10:26]

CLIENT: I mean I'm just trying to I mean the healthiest thing probably is just to remind myself that anybody would feel a little anxious and overwhelmed. I mean it's impossible to and considering all that I'm doing pretty good. I'm on top of everything so, but -

(Pause): [00:10:49 00:11:14]

THERAPIST: And also there's a strange parallel but it's just like anybody would feel anxious about going to the couch as an idea. It's and feel (inaudible) about it and (inaudible) getting there, process is a lot harder once you're there, that there's a way, there's a voice inside you which must be your mother's voice that tells you when you're feeling that way about something that there's something wrong with you, it's abnormal instead of [00:11:23]

CLIENT: Yeah, that's true. Right. Exactly. That's why I'm saying I feel like it's so more healthy. I've been reminding myself what am I, crazy?

THERAPIST: Where's your anxious -

CLIENT: I doing more things than people ever do and yeah, I'm fucking nervous and anxious, you know. But yeah, you're right. Where before it was like, ‘why do I feel that way?' Or, other people don't feel this way. They just do it. Whatever.

THERAPIST: This is new.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: If other people feel that way, if all they were doing was tackling one business, instead of seven or eight. (Laughs)

CLIENT: Right, right, yeah.

THERAPIST: I honestly don't know how you're fathoming other businesses while you're considering writing and your music. I'm not saying you shouldn't do it.

CLIENT: No, I know.

THERAPIST: It's a lot.

CLIENT: It's a lot, yeah. It's a lot.

THERAPIST: (Laughs)

CLIENT: Yeah.

(Pause): [00:12:32 00:12:36]

THERAPIST: Give yourself something you can give yourself credit for, just naturally.

CLIENT: Yeah, I'm getting a little better at it. But yeah.

(Pause): [00:12:43 00:13:27]

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah I think it's, I don't know, I just feel more like lately, I feel I mean I'm still more comfortable in my skin, but I'm having more moments the past few weeks of being suddenly aware and that can cause anxiety, too.

THERAPIST: Aware.

CLIENT: Like I'll just be aware, like ‘oh this is great.' Like, ‘it is so it is like you know what I mean, like -'

THERAPIST: Um hmm.

(Pause): [00:13:57 00:14:00]

THERAPIST: And you say that that can cause anxiety. What -

CLIENT: Because it's it feels literally it feels like I'm in this parallel universe like, ‘oh, isn't this very adult' and I'm literally having I'll suddenly be aware that I haven't been aware for the last like, day or whatever. And I'll be like, ‘look at me in this adult situation,' and you know this is real, like real things are happening.

Tangible things are being produced. You know. And it's like I'll just feel super like disconcerted for unsettled.

(Pause): [00:14:35 00:14:38]

CLIENT: That wasn't happening quite as much before because I was just feeling good and there weren't a million things, there were just maybe, the band or whatever. But now it's like poetry event, novel, the record, a show, just a lot of stuff.

(Pause): [00:14:55 00:15:02]

THERAPIST: Parts of you are unsticking. It's like time is getting rather than feeling like a 16 year old or 20 year old, you're getting sped through time -

CLIENT: Exactly.

THERAPIST: Almost where you would be but it's so fast for you -

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: It's like you're flipping through space and the stars are flying by you, very disorienting.

CLIENT: Yeah, that's good too, like wherever I was stuck at 19 or 20 it's suddenly -

THERAPIST: It's on fast forward now.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: (Laughs) that's good but it's really bad.

CLIENT: Yep.

(Pause): [00:15:34 00:15:43]

THERAPIST: You think it might be it's own form of kind of anxious sadness about the fact that it's happening makes you in some ways aware of what hasn't been you know?

CLIENT: Right, of course, there's a lot of that.

(Pause): [00:15:58 00:16:39]

CLIENT: I mean some of it also could be just who I am. Maybe that's something I'm getting used to, too. That it's not like I don't know how to put it, but in some ways that's how I know that this sounds a little more mystical or whatever, but that's kind of how I know that I'm a real artist or like I'm a like I was always meant to be an artist that's why when I was little there was no I never I somehow had very adult ideas as a child about this stuff, you know. So that maybe I'm also getting used to and part of that is that even if I sell a million copies of that I'm going to feel this way. You know, some of it is just the kind of existential like you know art is just about making art, but then once you make it and it's out in the world what does it really mean. There is a little bit of that. It doesn't fill whatever it is that drives me to be an artist in the first place, it doesn't make it go away, you know. Not that I've really thought that before but I think you have fantasies when you're younger you think, ‘oh yeah, if I'm living in a real cool loft and do whatever then you realize then I'll be living in a loft feeling like this, I'll be the same dude.

(Pause): [00:18:10 00:18:16]

CLIENT: But I think that's really good because I think that's why I've been doing better and better because I accept that and now I know that even with relationships like I just know that I'm way, a thousand times more okay with being alone and you know.

(Pause): [00:18:36 00:18:44]

CLIENT: But that's a big thing to like accept about yourself.

(Pause): [00:18:45 00:18:53]

CLIENT: Like you know Andrei Tarkovsky, film maker? He's like one of my favorites. I love him. But I found this random like You tube is so amazing I found like little clips of him in some weird documentary. And it's so amazing. The person asks him what do you think about young people or what do you and he goes off on this amazing like he's like young people just seem to embrace solitude and to be like the whole idea of you are your own world like there's no such thing as being bored or looking for something in other people that you really need to be with yourself, embrace solitude and he is just really and that's like what Rilke said, you know (inaudible) you know it's all these things I always knew that mean something to me but now it's like I'm getting it. Now I really feel that way. [00:19:52]

(Pause): [00:19:59 00:20:05]

CLIENT: But that's what's a lot to, you know. (inaudible) when I was watching it I was thinking, yeah, I could have been married a bunch of times by now but I didn't. There are many reasons why maybe I should have or whatever but maybe there's also just, you know there's something in me that just likes to be alone like a you know. [00:20:15]

(Pause): [00:20:34 00:20:48]

THERAPIST: It's interesting because it's such a paradox both that there might be something in you that likes to be alone and something that really hates to be alone.

CLIENT: Well, yeah. It's also terrifying to be alone because we're going to die someday.

(Pause): [00:21:07 00:21:15]

CLIENT: And then I think like if people lived forever, I don't even think this discussion would be happening. I mean, like great, I'm just going to date here and there for company and then friendship, but I don't I'm fine, you know. But because people are going to die, you know, that could be a pretty miserable business, so it's -

(Pause): [00:21:35 [00:21:40]

CLIENT: so there's something to be said for that companionship and love you can have, hopefully if everything goes well, you know, if you don't get divorced or whatever the fuck, but there's a lot to be said for that.

(Pause): [00:21:52 00:21:55]

CLIENT: And kids. You know, if you have a good rela there's a lot to be said for those things, but -

(Pause): [00:22:00 00:22:20]

THERAPIST: There's so much opening up to what does it all mean?

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah, kind of.

(Pause): [00:22:25 00:22:37]

THERAPIST: And I also think (inaudible) that there are ways that you can expect relationships that was on shaky ground in your childhood and that when you were a kid, a (inaudible) probably was (inaudible) [00:22:44]

CLIENT: Yeah, that's true, too. Yeah, I didn't think about that. Yeah.

(Pause): [00:23:04 00:23:10]

CLIENT: And I just happened to get into writing and music which then, yeah, it can be tricky. It's like do I want to be alone because of those reasons or because it was just better to be alone out of necessity, or not necessity but -

(Pause): [00:23:26 00:25:02]

CLIENT: Do you remember the time I was telling you (whoops, sorry) maybe like over a year ago, that night I was with the drummer if we played on that record and I got into that weird place. Well, it was funny because he was here this past weekend so we were all at the bar me, him, the guy that helped with the graphic design, a lot of great and it felt so good. I wasn't even thinking about it at the moment but it felt good to be so different, like not even close, like that was awesome. And I don't know why but it also felt good to know that it wasn't just it wasn't about booze, you know what I mean? I got pretty tipsy Friday, but it didn't matter, like it wasn't that's not what it was, like the booze didn't trigger some you know.

(Pause): [00:26:08 00:26:11]

THERAPIST: It just brought out whatever was there.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah.

(Pause): [00:26:14 00:26:20]

THERAPIST: Wow.

CLIENT: Yeah, that's a I mean, that's again those are those moments where I'll have these moments where I'm like with my friends or with whatever, but wow, man, I'm so comfortable. I don't feel I'm not in a weird mood, I'm not, I'm not like being weirdly sensitive about some random thing that some one of them might say or someone you know what I mean like I'm not I just feel very like -

(Pause): [00:26:51 00:26:56]

CLIENT: So much more, like now I feel the way people say that I seem. You know what I mean? You know people always say, you were so calm, like mellow. You seem like you're like you used to have your head on straight and like you give all those good advice, you know and now I feel that way. Now I feel like -

THERAPIST: Now it's not inside.

CLIENT: No, now it's not inside, yeah.

(Pause): [00:27:19 00:27:30]

THERAPIST: It's just so exciting.

CLIENT: Yeah. It's pretty cool.

THERAPIST: Really cool.

CLIENT: Yeah, it's amazing. I even had this like long (laughs) conversation with oh, that high school chick. So she's texting it sounds like she has some serious depression you know, like really bad depression. So I felt bad especially at that age, like that's awful, that's fucking awful. So, I had this whole, like I was like, ‘dude, you don't understand, like therapy, if you find the right therapist it will fucking change your life, not just like help you, it'll, if you do the work.' You know and she just didn't, you know she was like, ‘no, therapist's suck and I went to a bunch and they don't and I don't like being judged, they like judging me and they're,' I don't know. It was like, ‘listen, that's normal right now that you feel that way, but like I'm telling you you can't give up on that,' because sleeping all the time or she had some other things. Oh, she can't she has to constantly be with her friends or she doesn't like to be alone or, all this shit that screams of you know she's not, yeah, all this stuff that's typical depression stuff, you know. And I felt that with a number of people like where if it comes up you know.

(Pause): [00:28:56 00:29:03]

CLIENT: It's, it's you got to, I don't know. I don't know how people get by without being in therapy. I don't know, but.

THERAPIST: Therapy is also hard work.

CLIENT: That's what I told her. I was like, you know you feel this way because of course you do like why the fuck would anybody want to be in therapy, like I don't want to be in look, I don't want to be in therapy.

THERAPIST: It's not (cross talk)

CLIENT: It's like it's really hard. Yeah, it's really, really hard.

(Pause): [00:29:29 00:29:32]

CLIENT: I mean that's the thing the few people that know about this, I do kind of forget about this. They're like, ‘dude, what the fuck?' They're like, ‘dude, you're in there three times a week?'

THERAPIST: (Laughs)

CLIENT: You've been doing this shit for like 10 years? I guess I don't, it just feels comfortable now, I don't realize that it's a lot of work.

(Pause): [00:29:50 00:29:57]

THERAPIST: It's a lot of time, it's a lot of emotional (inaudible)

CLIENT: It's a lot of balls.

THERAPIST: It's not easy.

CLIENT: Yeah. I mean you gotta face up to things you don't want to face up to.

THERAPIST: Grief.

CLIENT: Yeah.

(Pause): [00:30:07 00:30:12]

THERAPIST: It's funny because you used to imagine to hear you say it's a lot of balls, you used to imagine this means like being weak or something.

CLIENT: No, no, no, no. Fuck that.

THERAPIST: That's changing.

CLIENT: No, no, no, no. That's nonsense.

(Pause): [00:30:23 00:30:38]

CLIENT: I mean I think back then it wasn't even that coming here was weak. I just hated so much what it was like out there you know what I mean? Because that made me feel weak, so then by default, you know what I mean?

(Pause): [00:30:52 00:30:56]

THERAPIST: It felt like because of my weakness I have to be here.

CLIENT: Yeah.

(Pause): [00:30:59 00:31:33]

THERAPIST: So, tomorrow I'm sorry again about yesterday. It was terrible timing with my (inaudible) next week. [00:31:39]

CLIENT: That's okay.

THERAPIST: I'm sorry you had to go to a funeral.

CLIENT: Thank you.

THERAPIST: (inaudible) [00:31:45]

CLIENT: So tomorrow at 3:10.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Good, bye. Thanks. Have a good day.

THERAPIST: Thanks for the CD.

CLIENT: Sure.

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