TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: You owed from last week. I don't know if you remembered that.

CLIENT: Oh thanks. Aw fuck me. I'm sorry.

THERAPIST: That's okay.

CLIENT: All right, I'll come back.

THERAPIST: I just was checking in to –

CLIENT: I'm sorry.

THERAPIST: This week was only two though, so just thinking about your accounting.

CLIENT: Okay. That's fine. Okay.

THERAPIST: And next week will be none.

CLIENT: Okay. So I'll just drop off – I mean the rest of the offices will be open so I'll just drop it.

THERAPIST: Yeah. That's normal business hours.

CLIENT: Cool.

THERAPIST: Although, slide it under the door because I'm not going to be here.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. I will. I will. So what's up?

THERAPIST: Nothing. How have you been?

CLIENT: I'm pretty good, pretty good. I don't know, pretty good.

THERAPIST: Good. CLIENT: Yeah, really excited because of the show tomorrow. It's so awesome like yesterday I was a little, I had to put the CD in my computer just to see how it comes up so at first I was kind of bummed because the artwork wasn't showing up.

THERAPIST: What do you mean – how it comes up?

CLIENT: Well you know when you buy a CD and you put it in, the artwork –

THERAPIST: Oh no. I didn't know that. You mean when you put it in your computer?

CLIENT: Do you have iTunes?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: You know how on iTunes when you go to your songs it shows you the cover of the CD and stuff, yeah. So I was excited to see that ‘cause otherwise it just looks like you're putting in a burned CD. So nothing came up. The titles came up but I was like, oh, what the fuck? So I tried to e-mail the company. I called them, whatever. And then, I don't even know what I did and then suddenly there it was. And I was like, God – it's awesome. So that was cool. Then I went to iTunes and it's up on iTunes. It's awesome, man. I'm psyched, I'm truly psyched.

THERAPIST: Yeah, it was great. I listened to it yesterday. Wonderful.

CLIENT: Is it?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Thanks, I appreciate it. Thank you, yeah. I'm excited. I'm glad you liked it. That's great. Yeah, I'm psyched. So yeah, it's good – I can't believe, it's kind of cool how fast this stuff happens now like they did a great job like just in terms of production and getting it out. It's kind of crazy like I didn't even talk to anybody. It's amazing. Like I just off loaded stuff in their templates and all that – boom. It's just unbelievable. But yeah, I'm psyched.

THERAPIST: I was shocked by just the production. How fast –

CLIENT: Yeah, I thought it was going to take another week or two to get it all on iTunes and all the different, Amazon and all that, but – unreal.

THERAPIST: And who's doing that? Is it (unclear) (cross talk)? [00:02:57]

CLIENT: No, no, no. It's literally the manufacturer. There are manufacturers who print CDs right? So what they've done is they've partnered or whatever. They do the manufacturing but then if you pay them, I think it was only like an extra 50 bucks, if you pay them an extra 50 it goes all through everything. They put your artwork onto all these like – and they do everything – iTunes, myTunes, all that stuff. And then they also – you don't get a payment from each different place. Like they do all that for you and pays you. I just sent them my publishing name, my fee was only 100 bucks. I did that and I get an e-mail saying, you're good, you're all set. Here's your online account to register the works, page, time. That's like wow, man. That's crazy. I mean I remember being like 17 and sending a tape to the Library of Congress. It's just exciting. And then yesterday I did something where I really know things have changed. I just say down and recorded one of my songs like on video, just on my Mac. I just recorded it like I made an acoustic, kind of raw version and I uploaded it to Videos and then today I was like, hey guys, here's a little teaser. Never have done anything like that but I think I'm going to start doing that. I think it's a good way to build a following because you know, you're basically playing as if I was playing just by myself in my bedroom.

THERAPIST: Spontaneous, raw. Yeah. Wow. That's big, too. That's like perfecting a final product.

CLIENT: Yeah, that's the thing. I was able to – I let my friend, Eliza, listen to it. She was like, it's fucking awesome, it's like the song is so rich. Your voice is just a little more – I didn't set the recording level so it's a little distorted, whatever, but I was like, you know what? I'm not going to even go there like I think this is the way it should be, just because no one ever sees me. I don't present myself like that. I think it would be nice to – THERAPIST: Is it video, too?

CLIENT: It's literally a video of me playing. I just set up the laptop just to film me.

THERAPIST: That's what I thought. I didn't know whether what you were talking about was just the audio. CLIENT: No, I just set it up to video me and that's why the audio – it's not a garage band recording or whatever. I just played into the computer and it came out awesome like it's – and that was the thing. I wanted to do something where I'm not thinking about polishing it. And the crazy thing is that I'm able to watch it. I've watched it several times and I like it. Like I like the way I look in it. Like nothing about it bothers me. It's pretty cool.

THERAPIST: That's something.

CLIENT: Fucking huge. Yeah, yeah. Like I feel like, wow, like it's like all these things – I always use that analogy but it's like coming of out the closet, you know, it's like this is what I do in my bedroom, like these (unclear) [00:06:46] shit, load up fucking songs and I'm serious, like I'm not fucking around so it feels good to – I think that it will be a good way to just keep people's attention and get new fans and – but also for me it's nice to just be loose and my guitar isn't like perfectly tuned. I didn't change the guitar strings and I didn't care. It sounds the way I wanted it to sound. And even tomorrow we're going to play three brand new songs that I have not finished the lyrics on so I'm probably going to be just singing nonsense, like I just don't give a shit. People won't know what the fuck you're saying and I don't care and even if they – I just don't give a shit. They sound great, so.

THERAPIST: It is like coming out of the closet.

CLIENT: It is. Yeah, that's why I used this analogy several times because that's how it feels. Each time there's like this big thing like this although now more than ever it feels that way, but now it feels – it's like you said, it's sped, speeded up, sped up. The blog went up today. [00:07:59] The thing I did for them with my reading. And I was like wow, that's crazy. I don't give a shit. I'm not even going to share this friend now because I have a record to release tomorrow. I'm going to save that for Monday.

THERAPIST: Because you don't have time for it.

CLIENT: Yeah, it's kind of fucking awesome. And even Connie yesterday was joking. She was like, what did she say? She made one of those little jokes like, man, I can't remember. You know how (unclear) [00:08:27] have all those songs like I hope my successful friends fail or whatever. You know? It's like (unclear) has these great songs and she made a joke like that. She's like – I don't know what she said. You know.

THERAPIST: Like something she was saying towards you or imagining you saying towards your friends.

CLIENT: Yeah, no, to me. She was like kind of joking like, oh, I know what it was. We were saying – she lives in Taiwan now so we were like – she's kind of going through a hard time, it's fucking Taiwan, you know.

THERAPIST: She lives in Taiwan?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: So this was all on Internet.

CLIENT: Yeah, but it kind of works because I'm up so late. She's up at the right time so we can chat and we were just saying that it was so nice the last time we hung out, like it was a really nice day here and we were hanging out by the river just having some coffee and chit-chatting, whatever. And she was like, yeah, it'll be great. It will be another time where you are telling me how well things are going for you. Oh that's what it was – she was like, yeah, I'll tell you I can't find a job and I'm probably going to break up with my boyfriend and you'll tell me about all the books and CDs you're putting out and your awesome girlfriend. It was like pretty funny. I was like, dude, you don't even know. It's not like that.

THERAPIST: But in a way it is.

CLIENT: Yeah, it is like that. Well, see that's the crazy thing, It's always been like that. I just didn't know. You know what I mean? I've had tons of friends like – do what? Why didn't you tell me? Like you know, whatever, they're always and I never really got that until now – like, yeah man. Yeah, I'm something. I'm doing stuff I guess.

(Pause): [00:10:12 00:10:19]

CLIENT: And get a load of this shit. I heard from Michelle last night.

THERAPIST: Really?

CLIENT: Isn't that weird? And not only did I hear from her, she was like – it was crazy, I miss you so much and I haven't stopped caring about you. It's so deep and it was like waaaa.

THERAPIST: My goodness. It's an avalanche.

CLIENT: What the fuck man? Weird.

(Pause): [00:10:44 00:10:52]

THERAPIST: Did you (unclear)?

CLIENT: I mean I did, you know, I mean we've had some friendly exchanges because she's seeing stuff I'm doing or whatever. That's fine you know but I wasn't expecting that but you know, I miss her too. I mean I do – you know, it was bad timing. I think because she's doing a lot better. She has her own yoga place. It seems like she's way more grounded and yeah. It's kind of a [moon planet] (ph). [00:11:24] when I think about it I still do have a lot of deep feelings for her.

THERAPIST: So it was nice to hear from her. CLIENT: Oh yeah, it was great. I mean, what are you going to do? She lives in Montana.

THERAPIST: She does?

CLIENT: You know, she's from Montana.

THERAPIST: I knew that. I didn't know she moved back there.

CLIENT: Yeah, you know I think it was the thing to do. She was struggling here so much. I mean her dad's there and I'm sure it's way cheaper to live and I think mentally, I think she even said, the city was just kind of not working for her, like for where she was in her life.

(Pause): [00:12:06 00:12:44]

CLIENT: I don't know, Connie was like fuck man, you're always up so late. And that didn't you know, you know what? I go to bed at like 5 sometimes, whatever. I was like I'm just not fighting it right now. Like it feels fine to me and I was like it's not – it'll eventually self-correct or whatever. I was like right now I have a lot on my mind, I was like I'm just constantly amped up, mostly in a really good way and I was like I'm fortunate. I don't have to be somewhere at 7, so I was like, yeah it's definitely a little weird. I shouldn't keep doing it but I was like, there's just a lot going on right now and I don't know, I just feel peaceful and comfy with my kitty next to me, you know.

(Pause): [00:13:29 00:13:49]

CLIENT: So what I think I'm trying to be very aware of is not to get – maybe it's because of the people I've dealt with, like Samantha or Michelle – I always have this fear that like of anything that's manic. Do you know what I mean? So I just want to make sure I don't get too – I don't know what the word is – euphoric, or too excited, or to, you know – it's like – which I don't think I have been, but then I was kind of laughing at myself yesterday because it was like – but what I think of being manic is just because I'm not used to just being happy and excited and having that buzz, so I think I'm just being weird or something, you know? Like I'm so not used to it, like yesterday I was e-mailing people and like drumming up PR, you know, like am I being weird? Like, you know, I'm, like, hey, Tricia, I hope you can make it. Like, what am I saying? Why is that weird? Like, you know.

THERAPIST: Yeah, why would it be weird?

CLIENT: Again, it's like I'm so not used to it so I feel like am I being manic? Am I being too – I can't explain it. I think it's just a euphoric feeling that I just, to be just so kind of excited and happy about something and reaching out to people, you know. Like I don't know.

THERAPIST: Or you seem to be just so unstuck.

CLIENT: Yeah, that's what I mean.

THERAPIST: Driven.

CLIENT: Yeah. You're doing things.

THERAPIST: Exactly. That's what I mean. Like text like, Tricia come to the show. Yeah, like, oh, there's my friend Josh. Like, Josh come to the show. It's like, oh wow, it's you know, I don't do shit like that.

(Pause): [00:15:36 00:15:51]

THERAPIST: (Unclear). Proactive.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: It's really strange. CLIENT: Yeah, it is. I was even thinking just now while I was washing my hands, I was like, you know she didn't contact my PR people so I kind of even don't know what they're doing. I feel like I could be doing what they're doing. I don't see any major thing that they're doing. I like the guy but I mean I don't have the money if this is all it is then you know. I could stuff envelopes and send CDs.

(Pause): [00:16:20 00:16:45]

CLIENT: But yeah it is really you know, it's like a caveman being like unfrozen years later, or something like – you know what I mean? In the middle of life something the guy is like suspended in animation. That's totally what if feels like.

(Pause): [00:16:58 00:17:23]

THERAPIST: (Unclear) coming out of the closest, it's like finally getting to be yourself, letting yourself just be yourself without worrying about who likes it or doesn't.

CLIENT: Exactly. Whether it's perfect or not or yeah.

THERAPIST: Yeah. And then actually to not be so afraid of that, freeze up doing things when you're finding yourself actually being a really active person. There's a lot of energy wanting to move forward.

CLIENT: It's funny too because really this all started kind off in San Francisco. San Francisco was the one good thing that came out of San Francisco was that, I think I said it in here that what the fuck, everybody and their mother is a want to be celebrity? Are you fucking kidding me? I've got a suitcase full of songs over here and I put together a band there. That was the first –

THERAPIST: I didn't know that.

CLIENT: Yeah. We had a – we practiced in the same place where Brenda used to practice – or did practice then when we were there. Yeah, but the problem was I was trying to be active. I got into music school like faking a fucking audition. (Laughs). But the problem was those were moments of this, you know, but without therapy, without understanding, whatever, what I was going through and how fucked up I was and oh yeah, I had like two bands. I played with this other girl who was a cellist. And when I think of it it's even hard to articulate. I would drive to I don't even fucking know where –or oh my God, just so much – shaking her husband or something. I don't know where those tapes are now even, but you know, she played cello. One time we practiced in one of the classrooms, like. Unreal. Unfucking real.

(Pause): [00:19:25 00:19:31]

CLIENT: I even paid (laughs) I worked at the music library when I was going there so I paid, there are a lot of things like hey, I'm a rep at this record company you know. For a hundred bucks I'll listen to your demo, in retrospect, complete bullshit of course, but when you're 19, 20, that's – so ballsy to do it. I called this lady and I went to some fancy office on Hollywood Boulevard. I played her these tapes, you know. And that was back then. I hated the way I looked. I was completely awkward, or I felt completely awkward and weird and just – oh but I'm saying is that I did it. But the problem was that if you're not –if you don't' have this, if you're not being helped in things that are kind of serious then that stuff just gets all fucked up or it gets – it just doesn't work. I was in music school. I should have been so excited. Music school is good school, but I just you know –

THERAPIST: You enrolled?

CLIENT: I was just going to school there. I was doing literature, you know?

THERAPIST: You were going to school there, but for literature?

CLIENT: Yeah. I transferred to school out there. I was going to go to Berkeley but –

THERAPIST: I didn't know this.

CLIENT: I was going to go to Berkeley but they were packed. They weren't accepting new transfer students so I transferred to – again stupid. Like why would I transfer to a super expensive private school but I did. And I went and it was okay. But again, I was just removed. I kind of made friends, but I didn't. I was just in a fog. Do you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Were you planning on doing that before you went out there?

CLIENT: No. I went for this girl and it just – I don't know what. I was just in a fog. But being the person I am and having – well school, what about transfer to, you know, but then when I got there I find out – a year into it I find out that they have this amazing music school. So I took my guitar and I faked, I pretended that I was playing some Assyrian folk song or something, literally, and I just made up shit in Assyrian to this like classical guitar professor and he was like – and he was like, you've never taken any lessons? And I was like, no. And he was like, oh, this is amazing. And I was like, yeah, you know. So they accepted me but you know. That space was not, I didn't even get what I had just done, do you know what I mean? Like no idea.

THERAPIST: It's really interesting that right now this week or these weeks when you're in this place of just being yourself and realizing who you are and you keep saying how great it is, that there's something about the story that all of a sudden you're reconstructing and finding these pieces that I'm struck because you never told me these pieces where you were being you. It may not have – you may not have been able to come out all the time, you may not even have been aware of what you were doing but it was you doing things.

CLIENT: Staring the literary journal, writing for the newspaper. Doing amazing stuff, yeah. Not to mention just being alone. I mean one way, yeah, my mom helped me or whatever, but the fact is I was alone in the middle of fucking San Francisco. Yeah, four fucking years, that's –

THERAPIST: A long time.

CLIENT: Yeah.

(Pause): [00:23:35 00:23:41]

THERAPIST: Yeah and I think probably what it is, is that when you're unstuck you can look back and not feel – now that I look back it's not triggering as much weirdness or anxiety or something.

(Pause): [00:23:53 00:24:02] CLIENT: Because I think the problem before was it's one stuck person looking back on other stuck memories. And that's a little, like when you're feeling a lot better you can look back because now you're so different, you're like, at least I know now that like I empirically, you know I've literally come a long way. Things are very different so now I can reflect. Before I think I will try to think of those, I mean it's so weird when I articulate it but –

(Pause): [00:24:36 00:24:50]

THERAPIST: You used to like just time would bring up so much of this stuff, sort of shame, self-critical feelings and now there's almost room for compassion.

CLIENT: Yeah, that's what it is. Yeah, that's exactly what it is.

THERAPIST: You're seeing it in a much more loving way towards your own self.

CLIENT: Also I think part of the problem before was that I was angry at myself for evening having done all that. Like why didn't I just come back after a year or six months. I mean there were a lot of things that I – but yeah now it's much more sympathetic and you know?

THERAPIST: What time of the year was it that you would have done that?

CLIENT: May. I turned either 20 or 21 on the road.

THERAPIST: You drove out.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: By yourself.

CLIENT: Yeah. Then Christmas of – I guess it wasn't really four years. Three and a half years. Christmas of ‘98 I think, I drove back. So in spring and winter I drove back.

THERAPIST: And you enrolled in school in the literature program, transferred that fall?

CLIENT: USC. When I got there?

THERAPIST: Yeah. In other words in the fall?

CLIENT: I think it was. I don't remember that. I don't remember how that happened, but I think it was. It was just immediately. Yeah.

THERAPIST: I guess I'm just asking if it felt like you were there but having no idea what you were doing for a year, sort of working odd jobs and then going to school?

CLIENT: See, you're asking me something that's based on logic and that's healthiness. I mean when you're that fucked, I mean –

THERAPIST: It's hard to remember. CLIENT: I never knew what I was doing, even going to school. I mean the whole thing was a lack of knowing what I was doing. The other thing I did was I took film class and like I enjoyed it. I acted in it. At one point me and my group did a short film around campus and I was one of the actors in it. It was weird and like I did that.

THERAPIST: You were doing things.

CLIENT: You know what the problem was? I was doing things without guidance, without proper mental health care, you know, so it was just – I was seeing, all I can see – that's why the PTSD makes so much sense to me. It really is like a vet who has moments of – for a month he gets a job at a construction site. But then like three months later something – he just stops going to work or he gets back on the wagon or off the wagon, or whatever. The more I thought about it, that's exactly what it is. Or just as in one month a series of really bad panic attacks so that's it. Everything unravels, you know, stops doing homework, stops going to class, retreats from people. Stops paying bills, you know. It was always like a start and stop thing.

THERAPIST: And PTSD you describe it as shifting substates and I think it's getting in the habit when you don't (unclear) around PTSD when you have a traumatic experience. But you're describing certain, getting into a substate but maybe it would feel like a healthier version of yourself when motivated and being yourself but it wouldn't last or something switches maybe back into a very depressed, sounding overwhelmed, don't know which way is up and without guidance the little kid inside feels lost and it would go back and forth a lot like that so when these bubbles or something bursts of things were you. But it wasn't consistent. And maybe that's what you're saying is the fear of – is this a burst of something or is this going to last?

CLIENT: Not so much. No, no, no. This is – it's hardwired now. Do you know what I'm saying? It's more that I just don't want to – the more that I think of it, I don't think I'm saying anything other than I think it's disconcerting. I just have these moments of like wow. But I think I need to take credit for the fact that I know better. I'm being mellow. I'm know myself anyway. It's always been the opposite. I don't get excited enough about things. So, I'm not worried about it. Again, and also I think it is because I've dealt with people who really were manic and that really is a very disturbing – I don't know, so I just want to make sure that I don't –

THERAPIST: Who?

CLIENT: Michelle was manic. She was the most manic. I mean cleaning the kitchen at 3 in the morning or just, yeah, just manic behavior.

THERAPIST: Like she'd get frenzied with energy.

CLIENT: Yeah. Constantly ideas, like oh I'm going to do this, and this. Like constant, you know. I know this girl who was like that. Every fucking week I'm going to this grad program, I'm doing this business. I just got this job. You know. And that – there's something about that that scares me even more than like just total depression or whatever. I don't know. There's something. Also, maybe in my family. I don't know. I don't think they're manic but.

THERAPIST: But it occurs. What do you think –?

CLIENT: Well because I wonder. Like (unclear) my uncle, who I was saying doesn't really sleep and I don't know if that's just depression or being a workaholic or a little bit of everything. My other aunt, the one in Portsmouth. My mom, I think clearly, is manic because she has a mellow routine. So she's just more anxiety and hating herself but I wonder if like the rest of my – my grandmother has always been like a bundle of energy and just kind of you know.

(Pause): [00:31:45 00:31:56]

CLIENT: But no, I think mostly it's just that I just that – someone comes out of the closet it must be like that, too. Like it must be like, oh you know, here's another day and people know I'm gay. Or whatever. I don't know what it's like but it must, you know, it's still –

THERAPIST: I think it's life changing.

CLIENT: Yeah, it's life changing. Exactly. So I think there are moments where like you said I suddenly feel like I'm on that roller – not roller coaster, but that speeding, you know what I mean, like, whoa. You know?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

(Pause): [00:32:35 00:32:53]

THERAPIST: And I could see how it could feel if you could be afraid that it would be like getting manic in the past. I mean I'm using that term loosely. I don't think you've been formally manic.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: But that would feel like it being sort of unintegrated bursts of motivation. This in a way is unintegrated, because this is so new but it's coming from a firmer foundation, you know. It really just is persisting.

CLIENT: Yeah. Right.

THERAPIST: And since you've never known it that's sort of the closest thing you know about it.

CLIENT: Right. It's like soldering a severed electrical wire or something. I mean the current has already been coming, it's there, but it's been severed for a long time. Suddenly there's a surge of – you know.

(Pause): [00:33:48 00:34:24]

CLIENT: You know, I forgot. I was going to say yesterday, I felt kind of bad. I was going to thank you in the credits of the record and I didn't and I was like maybe that's not appropriate or something. I was like maybe that's a private thing, you know. But I wanted you to know that I was going to.

THERAPIST: Why do you say it's not appropriate?

CLIENT: Well I don't know because I was like, look, maybe she doesn't want her name – I don't know. Do you know what I mean? And I was like, oh it's kind of a private thing. Maybe it's just – I don't know. But I want you to know that I was going to do that.

THERAPIST: It's funny but I actually read the whole – I read everything. I read everybody's names, trying to figure out who everybody was and wondered if that came up in your mind or not. I hear you.

CLIENT: Oh you mean, oh you thought about it. You looked for your name then? Oh that's cute.

THERAPIST: I read through the names and it occurred to me, I wonder –

CLIENT: I'm sorry.

THERAPIST: No, it didn't feel hurtful.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: I was imagining –

CLIENT: Who are these other people?

THERAPIST: Who are these other people and I was also imagining what – was I in your mind when you were thinking about that list?

CLIENT: Yeah, of course.

THERAPIST: Whether to put it or not.

CLIENT: Of course, I mean yeah. Yeah. If it was up to me every book, everything I do for now on would be, thanks, Tricia for – I mean yeah, of course I thought about it. I just you know, I almost felt protective in a way. I mean that's just between me and Tricia.

THERAPIST: Yes. Of course. This is your private space. I understand that. You're welcome.

CLIENT: Thank you. Thanks, that's – I mean, that's an understatement. The most understated thank you in the history of thank you.

THERAPIST: No it's not. I hear you.

CLIENT: Yeah. I'm always worried in general, I'm worried about thank you – can I go back and forth on the whole thing of thank yours? In this case because of Kickstarter some people went above and beyond so to speak, so like –

THERAPIST: I think that is what also I've seen as I was wondering about your process about not even books or cool guy on the list. CLIENT: It was actually longer but I was that's fucking ridiculous like there were some people that really either chipped in big or (unclear) [00:37:03] and then there were people who were just moral – who were just really there.

(Pause): [00:37:06 00:37:19]

THERAPIST: That seems very simple and clear and appreciative, genuine.

CLIENT: You know. The guys in the band and stuff. They weren't on the record but it wouldn't be what it is if I didn't also have these guys now.

(Pause): [00:37:37 00:39:07]

CLIENT: It's funny but now a lot of times when I'm like driving or if I'm quiet, a lot of times it's weird. It's as if I'm like scanning. I'm like, I really am getting used to, it's like wearing a new suit or something. It's crazy.

THERAPIST: Scanning things.

CLIENT: Scanning like just the reality of what's going on. I'll be like, here I am. It's crazy to feel so consistently, to feel so consistent. But to feel consistently content is fucking bizarre. Like even like I was telling you, like even sometimes when I'm feeling a little annoyed or down, it adjusts, it goes back to that, it bounces back so fast, or a lot of times it does it even while I'm annoyed, like yeah, yeah, yeah. It's weird. It's like such a shift. It's just crazy.

(Pause): [00:40:11 00:40:19]

THERAPIST: (Unclear) to yourself. In some ways that's not – I mean it is who you are, but it hasn't been what your experience inside your own mind has been programmed to be. So it's just sort of getting to know yourself in a way.

CLIENT: Yeah.

(Pause): [00:40:33 00:40:47]

THERAPIST: Like looking at yourself in the mirror for the first time without all the old baggage and criticism.

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah I hear you. I think in a way that's why I kept watching that video thing. It wasn't so much – I just kept looking at this guy and thinking like wow that's –

(Pause): [00:41:06 00:42:12]

THERAPIST: It seems to me (unclear) also of being born, like you're just coming into the world almost and how different that is but also how much there is to get to know in a way. Like looking in the mirror like you're describing.

CLIENT: Yeah, it's super exciting.

THERAPIST: Who is he? Who is that person?

CLIENT: Yeah, I know. That's just the thing. Because now it's like I think I even mentioned this before now – all the possibilities I used to think about aren't fantasies. Now I have legitimate, not legitimate but concrete kinds of plans and things that, many of which could easily happen like they're not, they don't seem like – I'm not just sitting in my room depressed, kind of just wanting. Do you know what I mean? Like things are happening and they feel very grounded in everyday life. So, yeah, it's kind of exciting like oh, what's this guy doing? Like, what's all this stuff that's going on?

(Pause): [00:43:27 00:43:51]

THERAPIST: It's really exciting. Unnerving.

CLIENT: Yeah. But in a good way. Good enough. Sometimes things I guess should be unnerving, otherwise they're not you know –

THERAPIST: Maybe good things can feel your artistry, too.

CLIENT: Yeah, that's and that's the other thing, right. Right. Like when I was singing that song yesterday I noticed – I wasn't really thinking while I was playing it, but then when I was thinking about our practices and our shows – it's from the heart and it's this role when I play up front but now it's really joyous actually. It really is. I'm having such a good time that the songs might be kind of more melancholy, indie-pop, but they're not. Like now they are what they – what I've always wanted them to be which is kind of like that more uplifting kind of – so, yeah.

(Pause): [00:44:56 00:45:01]

THERAPIST: And who knows what will come out now.

CLIENT: Yeah. Well that's the thing. All these new songs are already so much better.

THERAPIST: You were saying people are noticing it.

CLIENT: Yeah, that's why I've recorded that one, because I wanted to record something totally new that a totally different feel.

(Pause): [00:45:16 00:45:33]

THERAPIST: So we have a week? CLIENT: Yeah. It's going to be interesting. (Both laugh) So Wednesday after.

THERAPIST: A week from Wednesday.

CLIENT: Cool. Cool. Have a great vacation.

THERAPIST: Thank you.

CLIENT: Enjoy it and I'll see you. Bye.

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