TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: (Fragment)

CLIENT: Yeah, thank you.

THERAPIST: Where did you get it?

CLIENT: Spring break. [00:00:08] So, I don't know. We wanted to go somewhere just for one night so I rented – there's a pretty nice inn. Yeah. That's something. Just a little getaway.

THERAPIST: That's nice.

CLIENT: Yeah, that was good because it's kind of off season so it was pretty, it was like 100 bucks, like costs. I just got a – I was like two minutes late because I just got some good news just now.

THERAPIST: Oh yeah?

CLIENT: Our tenants are moving.

THERAPIST: That's good news?

CLIENT: Well (chuckles), that is good news because my mom rented that when I was away. And she was just so nervous, she just wanted it rented so for – since like fucking 2006 or something we've been getting $300 less than market value. I mean she hasn't – why, because of the way she is, she wouldn't let me really raise it. You know, like all that stuff.

THERAPIST: Since 2006?

CLIENT: Something like that.

THERAPIST: Why didn't you raise it?

CLIENT: Yeah. Well she was always like, raise it 20 – like it was nonsense. I was like, I'm not going to – 25 bucks. Like it's not even worth the hassle. You know, like, I was like you know what? They're going to move at some point. They're a young couple. Most young couples after a couple of years, they're out of there. So in April they're out of there. It's awesome. So I'm so excited. I can like – and it's good. It's good timing because my mom now, she called today. She was like, she even told them to call me. So today I went down there and she was like, you know something – you take of it. It's your thing. You know, I trust you.

THERAPIST: That's great.

CLIENT: You know, it's just that average rents are around 1900. These people are paying 1450 for a beautiful –

THERAPIST: And also it seems reasonable to raise the rent each year. CLIENT: Of course. And she was like no, they might move. And I was like, well fucking let them move. Are you kidding me? Like, we let them park like two cars. We don't charge enough for that. You know, ride on the bus, right? It's a beautiful family owned home, nice and quiet. Mellow. You know. So I'm so excited. I can like totally get the people I want, you know. Plus, it's kind of nice to have my mom in there because you're allowed to be way – there are things you can do when there's an elderly owner in the house that you can't do – you know, no kids. There's certain things you can kind of just be up front about. No fucking dogs from now on. So, yeah, I'm just psyched. And it kind of happened with perfect timing because I've been really stressed about money this past week so I'm kind of glad. It's a little bump. I'm going to start tutoring again, I think. Just like twice a week. I was thinking about it. You know, I don't have to go from one extreme to the other. For right now just twice a week even if I just didn't. Usually I charge 60 but if I charged – still that's 800 bucks a month. You know, eight sessions – 400 bucks a month. Yeah.

I just had two double punch things happen. I went to see my friend's show and when I went to pay for – I just bought like four Buds and my card was rejected. And that doesn't happen very often and it just – something about that. I'm just so done with that kind of shit. So that was one. Luckily I had the one credit card I have had a little bit of money in it so there's that and then like the next day I talked to Lily about our tee shirt business thing and at the end of the conversation we were both, yeah, like I don't know. I mean, we were going to do it just for fun – like we were going to do two designs. One for my music and one for the magazine just because we were both like you know what? There are things we really care about, do we really have time to run like a tee shirt – we would have to sell so much to make enough money. But all that stuff, it almost made me more depressed for a while. It was like fuck. Even the tie idea, once I really thought about it. You know, it's a business and even if you're doing it from home it doesn't matter. You really have to devote time.

THERAPIST: It's a lot of work and planning.

CLIENT: And you have to invest money and I don't know. So I just suddenly felt really, I mean really anxious. So I'm like fucked, so that's it. I've got this job and I don't know, I just feel yeah. So this makes me – it's something and it's a few thousand dollars a year that we weren't making. Yeah, it's been a big money – yeah and then I got letters. That was a good thing. I got letters from Sally Mae and school saying your debts have been paid because of the consolidation so, I don't fucking know. There's a lot going on. Jason wants to publish the anthology. But now that means I've got like a year to look at like between 20 and 40 poets to all agree to be in an anthology, to have good enough poems to be in an anthology.

THERAPIST: That's a lot of work.

CLIENT: That's a lot of work. I'm writing my novel. I meet once a week – you know that woman that moderated I told you? We're meeting once a week to work on our novels together.

THERAPIST: She's writing one too.

CLIENT: You know what the weird thing is? It's really weird. That my novel idea was inspired by her late husband and she's writing about her grandfather who my uncle who passed away, my uncle was her grandfather's student and then was the archbishop who presided over his funeral. Her grandfather was a major literary icon. So yeah, it's weird. So we both I think have been – it's kind of neat. Like she's kind of like what my mom isn't. She's my mom's age or something – 68 or something like that. You know. It's kind of cool. And it's good for her. You know, her husband's not around and I think we're both getting a lot out of it. But also, just for the writing. We both have really – it's not – I'm kind of done with like writing workshops but this is more of just a one on one – it's like two really good friends who care about each other and just try to support each other at being just very honest critics in their criticism and stuff.

THERAPIST: A mutual mentorship.

CLIENT: Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.

THERAPIST: That's neat.

CLIENT: Yeah, so it's making the novel much more – now I have a working structure. I have way more details. I have a bunch of stuff, so. But it's making me all very anxious. The record. I did a whole new, like taught myself how to make a mailing list on the website. I'm following it. It's like a google analytics. I know exactly who's clicking and when, how many times. That's kind of like crazy. Samantha's clicked about 17 times on the record. I built an online press kit. The band – just a lot of stuff. I recorded my first electronic song. Yeah, it's crazy like a prolific, weird time.

THERAPIST: Well, as you are taking your (unclear) forms more seriously as you craft and your profession the idea of tutoring in a way fits a little bit better – like it is something small for a big chunk of change you can do on the side to support yourself. [00:08:55]

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Whereas running a business to get one of those other running to make enough money would take more time, maybe not eventually four years down the line you could pass it off to a manager of the business but it would be a lot (cross talk) (unclear). [00:09:15]

CLIENT: Yeah, for example how would the business run if I went on a tour, even three, four, five days? How would that business run?

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: Yeah, it's all about just hope. Like I met with Lila and she just off the cuff joked around about the job. I guess, I guess the boss over the company was like AP and Donnie are going to be busy for years. You know, so like that's good. [00:09:42]

THERAPIST: That's great.

CLIENT: Yeah, there's a lot going on. Now I'm doing their business textbook, whatever and all this crap. And they haven't even gotten started yet on the grammar thing so that's -

THERAPIST: It's a really good gig. CLIENT: Yeah, it's a lifesaver. It's a lifesaver. Like I – it really is. So if I could just – yeah, like you said, I think I just realized – you know man? I just put in – really, what would that be? Three hours a week to make like 150, 160 bucks a week? Are you kidding me? I just got to suck it up, you know? I was like, I'll just do it the way I want to do it. I don't want to do it every single day.

THERAPIST: It's a (unclear) you can design. [00:10:30]

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Do it one day a week if you want to. (Unclear) in a row and it's done.

CLIENT: Or that. Or that, right.

THERAPIST: Charge what you want to charge.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Did they tell you what you can charge?

CLIENT: Oh, this would just be me.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: So what I'd do is I'd charge like – if it's the school they charge like 70, 80 bucks and they give us like 30 or 35.

THERAPIST: So charge $70 or $80.

CLIENT: Well see, that's the thing. What I'd do is I'd charge just 60. That way they're getting a better deal. And sometimes even 50. Fifty bucks an hour to tell someone what a preposition is? You know. That's fine with me. But yeah, the main thing has been I'm not – I just have to find a way. This is not going to let up, like all this stuff that's going on. So I've got to find a way to be – I've been very, just like tight. My shoulders, like everything's like –

THERAPIST: Tight.

CLIENT: Yeah, so. I need to like get your – just a little breathing exercises, just little things, just kind of stop, you know, just kind of. The weather's nice here so just walk or something like that. But yeah, I feel kind of – you know, I get that way. I'm just turning on my body more so I'm not sleeping that well. I'm eating okay I guess, but I'm eating the same thing everyday a lot. Like a ham sandwich with sprouts on wheat bread, a little bit of (unclear) cut chips and hummus. [00:12:20] I guess it's not awful but I feel kind of –

(Pause): [00:12:24 00:12:41]

CLIENT: It's just a lot. And then with Kelly things are like fantastic but I definitely, I feel weird like that flirtation with this other friend that – remember I was telling you? Yeah, it's like I don't know, I'm kind of into her, you know.

THERAPIST: The other friend.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: More so than Kelly?

CLIENT: I don't think more so. I think the other friend might be a little more, definitely a little more unstable, you know. But Kelly definitely is a little more like – we even had a little talk about it Saturday night. I was like, does it make you feel uncomfortable? Like, you know, I kind of feel like it's something being a long time now. You've told your son about me and she won't say no, there's no love you. And she's not even big on compliments. She doesn't really – and that hasn't bothered me because it's just actions and her actions obviously say it all. I can tell how much she cares about me but sometimes either you want to hear things or you want to not feel bad that you're saying things. So we had a little talk and she was – she got a little defensive. She was like, well I don't know what to say, like that. And she was like, I think that might be an issue for us. She was like, I'm just not – she was like, I've never had this before. She was like, I've never had a situation like this before where someone's so honestly, genuinely saying things to me and it's hard for me to – and that's fine. I understand. I'm a little worried about it like I don't know what that means, that kind of – well I guess I know what it means but you can't rush things, but it's been since October. I also was like, well why did you tell your son? So you told your son but you're having trouble verbalizing certain things. I don't know. But then when I think about our actual experiences together, it doesn't feel that way. Like the moment she looks – I just know. The way she just does it instead of saying it. You know, she's so sweet and so affectionate and you know, I know. So, whereas with Bethany she is very expressive. She's very – the passion is right on the surface.

THERAPIST: And maybe that – you're saying that will actually feels better to have it –

CLIENT: A little bit. With Kelly I feel that she doesn't really, like she's only asked me too many things or something. I don't know. I feel like I kind of get the conversation going more and then we have a great conversation but I don't know. She's a little – it's not often that she'll ask me how my mom's doing or my grandmother's doing. Like she'll say, how are you, how's your day or whatever but I don't know. Like I feel like – it's hard to explain. Or I played her that electronic song I did and I almost felt bad. She was like, oh that's good, that's really good, you know. But it's weird. I don't know how to explain it. I'm trying to be careful and like, maybe it's just me. Obviously, I have such a need for feeling like I'm not a failure. So I want to be careful of that. At the show she was like, you are a – she was just floored, you know.

THERAPIST: She was expressive then. CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, totally. She was like, you're amazing, you know. But she is a little bit more aloof. You know, she's an artist so we are totally equals so I think because of that I'm maybe not used to, she's not like gaga over every little thing I do. She's like, oh great. Oh that's fantastic, that's great. You know, it's just very – you know what I mean? Whereas in the past it's been like girls, they're like groupies. They have these moments where – and you know it does feel kind of good for someone to be like more effusive, whatever. So, wow. And then that makes me, if I go down that road, then I go back to the way I used to be – well, she's a little heavier than I like – you know what I mean? Like I saw some good looking women – like I went out to Portsmouth with her and her girlfriend and – do you get out to Portsmouth often?

THERAPIST: I used to.

CLIENT: I mean there are some – Portsmouth has some of the most beautiful women in New England. I don't know what the fuck goes on there, but every bar we went in we were out and it was just like – thin, just really, really – so I'm trying to – I don't know, I'm feeling a little, it's hard to explain.

THERAPIST: Well you are explaining it though. You're aware you've moved back into that finding whether you're still criticized when you're feeling a little uncertain about the relationship. Especially uncertain about aware of looking at her heart, in her being (unclear). [00:18:11]

CLIENT: Yeah. And also then to be careful that I'm not over reading because her actions are I mean, she's the one, like you know, this past week was like you know it would be fun to see you more than just Saturday or like you know, the girl's – for a mom who has a kid, a job, is an artist, you know, she's obviously – her heart's there. I'm just – because I'm so sensitive to that now, I guess people who have trouble expressing themselves worries me a little bit.

THERAPIST: Well one of the questions I hear you going back and forth is, if you didn't need to hear that – if you just knew in yourself, knew that you're not a failure, knew what you are worth, knew that you (unclear) [00:19:12] would it feel the same way that you (cross talk) (unclear).

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's two different things. With the art stuff – that I'm more careful about that because I knew that that's just a deep painful thing from the past where I just need people to tell me that I'm good, that I'm amazing. I just know that now. Unfortunately it matters to me that people respond strongly to – normally. You know what I mean? Do you ever stop to think that's it's healthy? I can't keep telling you you're pretty. And then -

THERAPIST: (Unclear). [00:19:54]

CLIENT: Yeah, I know. Obviously you're into it. You love the sex. You're into me and sometimes you need to hear things. I mean shit, once in a while to heart, ‘yeah, I like that shirt. You know.' I mean she tries in her own way, but – she always calls me babe or baby, or whatever. She's very – when we're out she'll suddenly put her hand, like she'll scoot near me, you know. I mean – so I feel bad – like I don't want to make her feel bad about it. But I do feel like, you know what? I think I've been really good. It's been months. I just want to put it on the table.

THERAPIST: A man can come from a somewhat different place, if you're feeling like I do know what I'm worth and what works for me in a relationship is someone who (unclear) (cross talk).

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah.

THERAPIST: And someone else might not need that but that doesn't mean that that's wrong if it works for you too.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. So I don't know. Yeah, see, I mean –

THERAPIST: What?

CLIENT: No, it's just crazy, like I've been in this place for like, I haven't been taking Ativan but like today, yesterday, like man, maybe I should just pop an Ativan. I just feel like tight and just like I'm hyperventilating or something.

THERAPIST: And all of a sudden, you just felt it just now when you said it?

CLIENT: I've been feeling it since I woke up. I'm also a little hung over. I went out with Bethany last night and I – I don't know, lately I think booze is getting to me a little bit more than usual. Like while I'm drinking it I'm okay but like I wake up feeling shitty. So I woke up just feeling crappy on top of everything else.

THERAPIST: Well that will do it.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, if you're already feeling anxious and stressed, yeah. But yeah, that whole thing like yesterday, Bethany and I just kind of had a talk about it and I was like well I don't know what, yeah. I was like, I don't know, I'm kind of into you and that but I'm not an asshole. But I also feel like I'm married with children. But at the same time obviously I have a girlfriend and I'm not trying to – I don't know, I'm just confused. Do you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: And it hasn't become physical? CLIENT: No, no, not yet. I mean we do – it's actually very sweet like you know, she'll kind of touch me, like put her hand on my – or I'll kind of just lightly touch her or we'll hug, you know, but no, there's no. No. Like it's true, we had a really – she told me about her family. She kind of like got teary eyed. Like we really kind of related on certain – she's an only child. When she was growing up she didn't – although her situation is much worse – I mean sexual abuse, way, way, way worse, but the bottom line was she never got the kind of love that – like with her mom and all that. I told her some things about Samantha that I've never told – that night I went – and she wouldn't let me in, you know. So I don't know, I'm confused I guess.

(Pause): [00:22:55 00:23:09]

CLIENT: A part of me is saying, just don't even think – like don't sweat it too much. Just do what you're doing. Things are fine with Kelly as long as we don't step over any lines like you know.

THERAPIST: And there's more time to figure out what each (unclear) means to you.

CLIENT: Exactly.

THERAPIST: Like who they are and –

CLIENT: Oh, and then she – and Bethany's cool about that. She's like I don't want to – first of all I don't want to be an asshole, like I met your girlfriend at your show. I don't want to be an asshole. Second, I really like you and I wouldn't think of you less, so then I would think, so that's – because let's say we did get together –

THERAPIST: And that's what you'd do to her.

CLIENT: Exactly. Also, she said, this is so great. She's like, I mean, we don't know what's going to happen, right? I mean so this way we would have an awesome friendship and if something, whatever, down the road, then we could say that we have this amazing – like it's not, respect that.

THERAPIST: So you're on the same page.

CLIENT: Yeah. But there's a part of me that's like, you know what? Why am I even – I've got important shit to do. Like, just – I'm very lucky. Kelly and I have perfect – you know we don't see each other every fucking day, so we just have a great time together, you know. Everything just goes really well. She's an amazing person.

(Pause): [00:24:48 00:24:58]

CLIENT: You know what it is? I haven't seen you in a while. Like there's been so much going on. I don't know if I'm articulating it. It's like Jesus Christ I'm having a panic attack.

THERAPIST: You haven't been here a week. I've been gone a week.

CLIENT: I look at all this shit that I'm – oh Jesus Christ.

THERAPIST: What was it like not to be here?

CLIENT: It was fine, by the way. Yeah. I was like, that felt good, too. Yeah. I'm all right. I can deal with it.

THERAPIST: Like it felt nice that – it's not like you fell apart.

CLIENT: Like this isn't a crutch. I felt like, that's just something I do, it's like going to the gym or whatever. I'm not going to fall apart if I don't go to the gym but it's very good for you. And also if someone was just – I'd be like I just like talking to Tricia, I mean just as a person, do you know what I mean? But it feels like I need my therapy and I don't know what – you know? I don't feel that anymore. Or at least right now I don't. It really is more like it's just a part of my routine, part of like eating breakfast like things are – you should do that are good for you that are helping you. But they're not some overly like – it's not like holding you up like it's a house of cards, you're going to fall apart if you don't – you know. (Sigh)

(Pause): [00:26:28 00:26:35]

CLIENT: It's amazing how I, I'm so fortunate. You know, I keep like – what is happening here? I met an amazing girlfriend, some other amazing chick who is great to hang out with and like I mean, I don't know, it's very, like we were saying before – I just feel very, a little, in certain moments I feel very disconcerted or something, unsettled or something. And at other times I think it's literally adrenalin or something. I just feel like I'm like running a marathon or just – I'm up at all hours of the night networking, checking fucking Google analytics. I think – it's tweaking the website, fucking – I don't know, like just. So it's all good, I just don't – I'm not used to this, you know.

THERAPIST: (Unclear) a metaphor – two parts and (unclear) and I are getting attached again. [00:27:35]

CLIENT: Yeah, I was telling Bethany something like that and she was blown – because she's studying to be a psychologist, so she was blown away by – I was like yeah, I said – what did I say? It was a little funnier but I was like you know I feel like somebody from the age of – even before I started seeing you like the first therapist I saw like 25 to when I got back – so like 15 years it's like brick by fucking brick I've been building a bridge from my pre-20 or 19 year old self over this fucking shit river. This shitty river to me now. It's like connecting those two parts of me, reconnecting those two parts of me over this current of fucking nastiness. Yeah, it totally feels that way. So now she's like whoa? It's like whatever it must have been like to see the Brooklyn Bridge after they built it or something, like what the fuck?

(Pause): [00:28:35 00:28:46]

THERAPIST: And when you're sharing that, yourself with her it sounds like there's an intimacy that's there. CLIENT: That's the other thing that's there. Yeah, we have this weird immediate openness with each other. Yeah. And with Kelly, too, I do feel – I mean she doesn't share – it's not that she doesn't. It's the way she shares it – there's something about it that, something. But I do with her. I think I'm falling in love with her. I guess. Lately I'm starting to question a little bit, but. So I've told her stuff, but see the problem – what's happening is I tell her that stuff – the kind of stuff I tell Bethany for whatever reason I almost feel like I have to reel it back because she'll just listen and be like, well that's totally understandable, like it's really hard to – it's just very something, you know.

THERAPIST: There's something you need that you're not getting with (unclear) response. [00:29:46]

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: To make it just feel like it's totally safe and okay that you get from Bethany.

CLIENT: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Bethany's very like. Yeah. Well, the other thing with Bethany though is Bethany is definitely flightier. She takes ADD medication. She used to be a stripper. She used to be – she's lived. You know. And that worries me too. Because that's someone who – and no offense. I kind of don't – there's something about people that studied psychology or like Michelle's doing her psychology Ph.D. My friends were social workers. I don't know – there's something off about them. I don't know what it's like. Fucked up people trying to study something to fix themselves kind of. That's what I mean. I don't know what your background is but that's why this is – there's something about you that doesn't – that's very different. But even other shrinks I've seen before you, there's something about them. I don't know. There's something off putting. So that's a red flag a little bit to me. I just worry. She's in a band. I don't know. She's a little bit honest. She's been honest – oh, she blacked out. That whole kissing thing? We talked about this. She fell off her chair almost. I didn't like it. I was like you tried to make out with me twice. She was like, are you fucking kidding me? She got – she was like, I am so – that was one of the worse nights of my life that night. She went back to her ex's house. That's why I told her about the Samantha story. This guy kind of broke her heart, you know. She's been trying to – months ago, and I guess she went back to the guy's house and he wouldn't let her in and you know he told her he was going to call the cops if she – she was like at rock bottom – she was like that was rock bottom. So then that's why I told her about the Samantha thing. Like don't feel – like that's just human decency. Someone can just come out and obviously see that you're in distress and then can tell you the next day or something that wasn't cool. I was like, that's not cool at all. Obviously, you're not a lunatic. You're just hurting. But yeah, she told me about how when she drinks sometimes she's like you don't know, like I just wanted you. But she said, I've had times when I've blacked out and I've lost friends. I've said very mean, hurtful things to people. So you know, that's – she's complicated.

THERAPIST: She sounds very traumatized.

CLIENT: Big time.

THERAPIST: (Unclear). [00:32:32]

CLIENT: That's what I love about Kelly. Kelly's very – she's so – like her – she's so clear. She has beautiful eyes. She's just a beautiful person like who's tied – and that's the thing like you know what? It's good that she doesn't – she's a tough girl. She does talk about it. She's just not going to get all weepy about it. Moving me, that's cool too. You know what I mean. I want to be open, you know. Because maybe that makes me a better person in a way. I don't want to constantly rehash or – I don't know if I'm explaining it the right way but – like she talks about it but she's like – that's really hard to go through those things and then she'll say something like, that's so amazing. Look at all the things you're doing. What else is there to say in a way? Do you know what I mean? I don't know.

(Pause): [00:33:2700:34:23]

CLIENT: Probably the healthiest thing is just to focus on me a little more and just kind of do my stuff and not get too caught up in – I mean at the end technically, at the end of the day I'm just dating somebody, quite frankly, right? Once, twice a week. There's no reason to get so careful with that too. That's what used to happen in the past. I don't want to do that. Just let it be. If ‘it's broke, don't fix it. And if it's going really well, Bethany's a good friend and like I'm not going to – I don't want to be that guy anymore. Like in the past, that's almost being too nice in a way. That's where it's being too nice. You know what? Yeah. I have this friend. She's hot and we kind of flirt a little bit, but you know what? We're not doing anything tough like I mean, I think I need to be a little more not to overly sensitive about that for my own sake. Does that make sense?

THERAPIST: It does. I think you're still figuring out also what it is that would really work for you in a long-term relationship.

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah, you're right. That is true.

THERAPIST: That stuff is kind of up in the air.

CLIENT: What's the ultimate, like what would all the right pieces be?

THERAPIST: And even knowing that no one person is going to have all the right pieces. So what are the things that are going to feel fundamental to what if the relationship were sustained for a like a long – and being committed to it. And what will feel like there are some things that you are willing to let go? And it just seems like you get very self-critical about not knowing that shit right now and it just seems open right now. It's part of what it sounds like you're doing with Bethany. I mean the positive side of it is just kind of thinking through who different people really are. What it's like to bring your whole – the person who you are now, which is new to you even.

CLIENT: And I think after our talk on – I don't know, the night before, which was very – it wasn't like an argument. It wasn't bad. It was just very honest. And I'm kind of glad I brought it up while we were drinking. We never really get really drunk with each other. I mean we're pretty good drinkers but just enough to where it was honest. But – what was I just saying? Oh – but that you know, after that I was like, you know what? That's the other way to look at it. You know what, maybe that's where Kelly's at? Look – I was married a long time. It went down in flames. I have a son – that's my absolute priority. I've got a job. I've got a home to take care of. I'm not going to just start saying, I love you. So maybe that's a cue for me to say, like, alright you know what – if you don't want to compliment or whatever, but I'm not going to – I'm going to rein it in a little bit. Just enjoy it and see what happens. And like you said, not get too overly critical about other little, minor – fuck it.

(Pause) : [00:37:51 00:37:59]

CLIENT: Not to mention, if I was with some of my guy friends they'd be like, are you kidding me? I mean first of all, there are guys that have already fucked Bethany. First of all, but second of all, they're like, you don't know what she's doing in Portsmouth. I mean, not that you want to go there but you can't make it sound like she's some pristine, like you're somehow – do you know what I mean? Do you know what I'm trying to say? She's a person, just like you're a person. And she's a beautiful woman and don't – and it's not like she's some spinster, you know. Like don't make it sound like you're some mischievous, or something like you're doing something wrong or – I don't know. I don't know if that makes sense, but – in other words, it's another way of putting her on a pedestal and being overly – that is being overly nice or even naïve to some extent. I think it was that way with Michelle. I'm sure at some point she either cheated on me or something like especially towards the end. Because when I look back on it there were very clear signals that something was off. But because I put her here I kind of didn't – it was all about me and me feeling shitty and me pretty over analyzing every little thing I was doing or saying or whatever. So that feels better this time. I'm like you know what? There more important things I'm working on which I think is the way she feels. Like I really, really like this guy and want to spend some time with him. I don't want to see other people, whatever, but you know what I mean. Like I have all this stuff going on as well so I want to just take it easy. That's fine.

THERAPIST: Even just the possibility that she's in a slightly different phase in her life having been married and divorced and having a child is not personal – I mean nothing personal about that, that you are just trying to figure out, okay, where you are and where she fits – how does that fit together? How does that not fit together? CLIENT: And for example – it's a little thing but it's a big thing. I mean does this jerk even want to have another kid? She's 38.

THERAPIST: It's not a little thing.

CLIENT: It's not a little thing. And that's kind of important. I mean I do have at least one kid with somebody. But clearly that's something we can bring up now. Do you know what I mean? Like it's just I don't know. All this stuff, but – yeah, that's enough. She's sweet about it, like her friend's husband just left her. This fucking douche just left her. I haven't met her yet but from everything Kelly's said, she's a very nice older lady and she had called her yesterday and was like, I'm really sorry I have to take this for a second. And they were talking and Bonnie was going to pawn her wedding ring so Kelly says something like, you know, listen, I remember like I love my ring but that was the first thing I wanted to get rid of. Like you've just got to – and she was very – and I really didn't care. Honestly, it didn't bother me and when she hung up she was really – she was like, by the way I'm sorry, like you didn't have to hear that about the past. I was like, no it's okay. She was like, no it's not okay. I'm sorry. Like, to me that says more in a way than a compliment. That's someone who is really a thoughtful person, considering your feelings.

THERAPIST: She's holding your (unclear). [00:41:45]

CLIENT: Exactly. And that's a big deal to me. That's a big deal. I've never kind of had that in that way. You know, she's a very, very thoughtful person. Very sweet person.

(Pause): [00:41:53 00:42:12]

THERAPIST: Would you want more of her right now if she could seek her perfection more?

CLIENT: And that's the thing. I'm not sure. I worry. I think the bigger, overarching thing I'm worried about now is – it's a cliché but I'm starting to worry that I'm getting to that age where I'm just kind of settled. I kind of like my life in a weird way. I'm worried that I'm – when I imagine like wow, everyday living in the same place with somebody and not having the freedom I have now, that's kind of freaking me out a little bit.

THERAPIST: It's interesting though because you're saying you also picture yourself having a child.

CLIENT: But what you're saying, I'm trying to figure out like what is – what am I talking – what is it that I want? That's kind of worrying me that I – like I have a thing about Samantha-tage – women who I've been crazy about. I want to think, like wow, okay if Samantha came back to me today I would be like, okay, let's do it. I left my husband, I don't like wow, I don't know. I've got a pretty sweet set up right now. Peace and quiet and so I don't know what I would do. I think right now all I'd want is just maybe verbally a little more reciprocity but beyond that I think it's pretty awesome the way it is.

THERAPIST: What's so important about what you're saying was I have the strength to change and what's really exciting is that you can start to look at stories of these people, or potential relationships from the vantage point of I want this. It could look like something you want and feel like you can't have it but what if you could? You might not actually want any one of these people, or many of them or most of them.

CLIENT: It's totally night and day.

THERAPIST: Yes. To settle down, get married and have a child with this person? I don't think your answer would be yes to those people. So who you are feeling yourself to be now that this link is getting made and you're finally that person again from your adolescence and that's emerging. It's feeling better about yourself. What do you want in your life? What is actually in your hands and your decision and your choice and feeling like you're only waiting for the person on the pedestal to choose you. That's actually not it.

CLIENT: Yeah.

(Pause): [00:44:29 00:44:44]

THERAPIST: Maybe you don't want to date a shrink.

CLIENT: (Unclear).

(Pause): [00:44:46 00:44:55]

CLIENT: Yeah, that's called – yeah, I listen Bethany, don't fucking start that with me. I've got lots of social worker friends. Don't give me that.

THERAPIST: That's like (unclear). [00:45:04]

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. We're just having a beer and talking. Settle down.

THERAPIST: That would get on your nerves after a while.

CLIENT: Yeah. Although she's cool about it. She's not – like some of my friends are very – they just almost can't have a real conversation or anything because like yeah it's weird how they do that.

(Pause): [00:45:21 00:45:37]

CLIENT: But yeah it has crossed my mind that since now I have reconnected or am reconnecting more with what I used to be then yeah maybe the work is the priority. Not maybe, it is. So what does that mean? Part of the reason I like my space is that it helps my creativity. It's hard for me to just be living with someone and I just go to a corner and work. I don't know why. I guess I'm so used to – but there's something about just total autonomy and space and something that fuels my thoughts, so. I don't know if the answer is hey, we'll just always have separate – we stay with each other as long as we want and if we need to get away for a day or two – fine.

(Pause) : [00:46:27 00:46:41]

THERAPIST: Again, I hear edges of anxiety of criticism coming in. What to me sounds really exciting – to be able to just now have some space to get to know what you want. And it doesn't have to be what anyone else does, what anyone else tells you you should be doing. If you don't want to get in a long term relationship, get married and have kids, maybe you won't. CLIENT: And I was just thinking, I was glad I brought that up with her. Because yeah, that's kind of what I walked away with. You know what, I'm not even upset. I was like I'm glad I said that. I'm glad I brought it up just so she knows that that's what's going on. But now that that was her response, because it wasn't a bad response at all. It was a very brief conversation and that was it. But I was alright, now, I think maybe it was a bit of a reminder. You know what? I'm just dating this chick and yeah, okay, it's been months but whatever. There's no reason to get all – because that was exactly – what am I saying, do I want her to move in tomorrow? Just enjoy it for what it is.

THERAPIST: Would you?

CLIENT: No. I don't think so. Or at least I don't know, I don't think so. A. She's fun. B. Like I said, I'm just – I'm just now enjoying being in – things are so different now, I don't want to just rush into something else.

THERAPIST: So maybe it would feel like (unclear) for you? [00:48:23]

CLIENT: Oh yeah. Like this is the first time in my life that I like to go home. I like to stay at home. I like to, you know, that's a big thing. First time eve? What the fuck? So I want to savor that.

(Pause): [00:48:32 00:48:45]

CLIENT: And I think she likes it too. She has her own. She has a single home. Why would she – you know? So maybe in a way that's what's perfect about this. We both actually are on the same page. She's a serious artist. I'm a serious artist. You really love – we care very much about each other, we like spending time with each other but then we like go into our separate corners.

(Pause): [00:49:08 00:49:30]

THERAPIST: I guess the one thing that I can't quite tell if you're saying is to what degree telling yourself, oh I want that too, is protective. I want to go to my separate corner, too. Oh yeah, that's why I like my –

CLIENT: Oh yeah, you're right.

THERAPIST: Is that what you really want?

CLIENT: That's what I'm trying to say. I don't know if I'm kind of in that period now where men or women get a little (unclear) complacent, a nice routine, you know, I don't want to be that guy. It should be a little uncomfortable and scary and yeah, you're making a big change. Because otherwise you know, you blink your eyes and time is flying by and there you are sitting in your apartment with your cat. And there's nothing wrong with that but if you are someone who is social and who enjoys women or men or whatever the fuck, at some point you can't – like you said, you have to decide what's my – what are the things I can live with. No one's perfect.

THERAPIST: Where do you see yourself 10 years from now?

CLIENT: Things like that. Yeah.

(Pause): [00:50:29 00:50:42]

THERAPIST: You okay?

CLIENT: Yeah. Why?

THERAPIST: Just the way you got anxious.

CLIENT: Oh yeah, I've been anxious the whole time. I was looking at Cecelia's scratch marks. I was just thinking like I'm even still getting used to Cecelia. I'm not used to having this critter – but no, I've been anxious since I got here. Well – since the record came out basically.

(Pause): [00:51:06 00:51:32]

CLIENT: I'm trying to think about what I was thinking about – I shouldn't think of it as anxiety. That's again putting it in negative – you know, it's like really more like a rush. That's what it feels like, you know? It's just like constant adrenalin. Like holy shit – like I cut a record. Holy shit – I learned how to do a mailing list and I can see every single person who's clicking on the website. Like holy shit. I can work on the next record. I have nothing to do. That's record's done. It's actually done. Or just a constant – like a novel – holy shit, I'm doing this thing every week with like – this guy wants to publish an anthology. Like it's all coming at me. Because otherwise if you keep saying we have to – it's like making it a negative kind of –

THERAPIST: (Unclear) you want to see is anxiety, doesn't – it must have gotten a really bad rap and you're feeling like – [00:52:36] CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: You're like it's such a gnawing feeling. (Cross talk) (Unclear).

CLIENT: You know when you – earlier when you said it, I felt bad.

THERAPIST: Ah.

CLIENT: I was like, shit, I look anxious or something.

THERAPIST: Ah. No and I just meant more as like curiously, what was on your mind. What just crossed your mind that triggered some feeling a little bit more and it was just interesting that you said, Sophie's scratches, and you were talking about you could be alone or you could also bring someone into your life like a cat and there's a lot of anguish – she scratches you too.

CLIENT: Right, right. Any which way you go right now there's – your life gets – there are pros and cons. You're right. There is something about anxiety and depression in my family that is an automatic bad – it's a weak thing.

THERAPIST: Right. Whereas I think anxiety is a feeling you actually want to have some of. If you don't have anxiety –

CLIENT: Yeah, well that's what I said. It's important feeling like anxious about certain things. It's telling you what's what in relation to you. Like how things are in your life.

THERAPIST: Or it just signals the – prepares the system for something.

CLIENT: That's right. That's right. Yeah.

THERAPIST: If you don't have any of that you –

CLIENT: You worry that if I'm doing all this shit and like whatever, it's like no, I'm doing a lot of things, a lot of big things, so I could call it adrenalin or a rush or whatever, it's all the same feeling.

(Pause): [00:54:03 00:54:13]

THERAPIST: So Wednesday.

CLIENT: One? Yes, I'm putting that in my phone (unclear). Is it one – one o'clock sharp, right?

THERAPIST: One. Yeah.

CLIENT: Thanks, Tricia. I'll see you then. Oh! Was your vacation good?

THERAPIST: It was great, thank you.

CLIENT: All right.

END TRANSCRIPT