TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: Someone lost it.

THERAPIST: (Chuckling).

CLIENT: (Chuckling).

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: I'm really hung over.

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: Whoooo (ph). The thing about this job is sometimes we get together like at four, right after work.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And we'll play, yesterday. I really haven't been drinking as much.

THERAPIST: Yes, I was thinking that. That's not like you completely.

CLIENT: No, no, no. What, the drinking?

THERAPIST: Um-hmm, (inaudible at 0:00:38) too much.

CLIENT: Well, I mean I do I mean I do. When I'm out, I can still put them back. I just don't do it as often, you know.

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: And I've been so tired lately, just with just all over the place, that I think it's hitting me a little bit.

THERAPIST: Umm.

CLIENT: It's bringing out the tiredness more.

THERAPIST: Umm. Um-hmm.

CLIENT: And it was really fun. I hadn't seen, you know, my buddies in a long time; it was really nice. But whooo (ph). [0:01:04]

THERAPIST: Yeah.

(Pause 0:01:03 to 0:01:13)

CLIENT: (Sigh). Umm, luckily, Kelly (sp?) cancelled today.

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: So that works out really well (chuckling).

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: It's hard. I mean she teaches Saturday mornings, like at nine.

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: So I know that she's just trying to make an effort. She wants to be able to, you know... But it's totally fine. I'm just not feeling it today, so I feel good that I didn't have to cancel.

THERAPIST: Um-hmm. You cancelled earlier in the week, right?

CLIENT: No.

THERAPIST: No?

CLIENT: I was going to cancel today, I mean.

THERAPIST: Oh, that was for today.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: But then she texted me yesterday and she's like "I'm really sorry. I just, you know a problem." (Yawning), oh. So yesterday my friend called me (inaudible at 0:02:08) so cool. [0:02:11]

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: He's like "Man, I don't know what to tell you, but you have to do something." He's like "This is like..." He's like "It's a really amazing record." He said "I'm not bullshitting you, because I don't have to. You know, he's like "You've really got to be on top of this, you know, and make some (inaudible at 0:02:29)."

THERAPIST: (Chuckling)

CLIENT: [All right] (ph). I know.

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 0:02:32).

CLIENT: Yeah, he was saying, too he's like "I don't know..." He's like "I don't know what you, you know..." I was like, you know, I don't have the money to pay big-time PR people and all that, so I've got to do everything myself so... I guess it's a lot of time e-mailing people, rubbing elbows, making contacts, mailing shit, which can also add up, you know?

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: So... But it was nice to hear, you know?

THERAPIST: It's a huge compliment. [0:03:03]

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, coming from him (sp?). Yeah, he's yeah.

(Pause 0:03:06 to 0:03:12)

CLIENT: And I umm, I was thinking today about why, like, I'm really tired and I feel restless, too.

THERAPIST: Umm.

CLIENT: But I kind of want to go out tonight. I kind of want to be out and about, like. I was thinking like what is that? You know, I wonder if it's still that... You know, I'm in this place where I'm just feeling really good and I'm not feeling guilty about things. I want to just get out and mingle and meet people.

THERAPIST: Um-hmm. Um-hmm.

CLIENT: And yeah, I don't know.

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: Or it's just nervous energy. I still have energy. I just have this need (ph), so even when I'm exhausted and it's like nervous energy, you know? Or not nervous energy, just energy.

THERAPIST: Hmm.

(Pause 0:03:59 to 0:04:06)

CLIENT: And I was thinking about there's this music blog.

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: Which is a really good blog, and it's kind of like run by Assyrians. It's like really cool; Assyrian-type chicks, you know? So that was getting me thinking... So I was like, man, that's the kind of stuff that makes me sad, you know, like? I don't know how it would go.

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: But I do wonder. I wonder like if I had spent like a summer in S.F., if I spent four months in S.F., would I meet some of these chicks or would... You know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: Like there's a whole new batch of like over-25. See what I mean?

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: I can kind of who are really cool, it seems like. I don't know, but they just seem...

THERAPIST: Hmm. Um-hmm.

CLIENT: Umm, then I'm like, oh, if I keep thinking this, then this must mean that I need to try out try what? I don't know but... Do you know what I mean? [0:05:07]

THERAPIST: Yeah, try meeting girls (ph).

CLIENT: Meeting someone like that. Yeah, meeting someone like that, you know?

THERAPIST: Umm.

CLIENT: And these chicks are totally cool. It seems like they're all kind of born here, like me.

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: Obviously into really cool music, and they're, you know... I don't know what the end result would be. I don't know. Because most people from S.F. do not want to move, and that's been my experience. They don't... Even if they come out here, they always end up back in S.F. It's just one of those places that, you know like... So I don't know what I'm expecting but... Or like Assyria, you know? Like, I don't know. It's just like I haven't I guess I've tried, but I haven't maybe. I don't fucking know. It's just annoying.

(Pause 0:05:49 to 0:06:00)

(Finger drumming sound)

THERAPIST: Well, how much imagining (inaudible at 0:06:02) holds a kind of projected fantasy for the time being?

CLIENT: I mean maybe, because I could get together with them and, like, oh, fucking Assyrians. I prefer the kind of, you know... Yeah, it could remind me more of -

THERAPIST: Well, not "fucking Assyrians" in a global sense.

CLIENT: No, no, no.

THERAPIST: But then show me this way, show me this way.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Show me crazy.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

THERAPIST: Show me yeah, whatever it is.

CLIENT: Yeah. The grass is always kind of greener and blah-blah-blah, yeah, yeah. I guess the thing though is they're not true. I haven't known I don't know, that's kind of what I'm trying to say. I haven't even sampled it to know.

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: Do you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: You mean in [here you know what] (ph)? In Cambridge, I guess?

CLIENT: Oh, yeah. Well, in Cambridge I really tried.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I really tried to go out with Assyrian chicks here.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Here the problem is I always have to I feel like I'm settling, kind of.

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: I feel like if this chick wasn't Assyrian, then I have no interest in her.

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: Or I'd not be that interested, do you know what I mean? [0:07:05]

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: Whereas I feel like, in S.F., it's just like, you know, there are almost as many Assyrians as there are in Assyria.

THERAPIST: Oh, really.

CLIENT: You know, I mean it's sad, yeah.

THERAPIST: I didn't know that.

CLIENT: Yeah. It's like kind of obviously the Assyrian government doesn't want to push that fucking piece of fact.

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah.

CLIENT: But, you know, they say that there are around five million Assyrians in Assyria, but I don't know if that's true. I think there's more like three million.

THERAPIST: Hmm. So that's I think that's why it (ph) was interchanged. It's just a larger population.

CLIENT: I mean obviously you have I mean that's a lot of fucking people (ph).

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: But this area has at this point, this used to be a huge population, but, you know, girls my around, like, between 25 and 40, who are cool, who are like there's too many factors that I can't find here, you know. There's just not... You know, they're either just boring kind of whatever, or high maintenance kind of things, or princesses or... You know, there's a lot of stereotypes here. [0:08:15]

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: There are in S.F. obviously, there are in S.F., but there's so many fucking people. There are more people like just by default. There are going to be more people than I could click with, you know.

THERAPIST: They're like getting in the party (ph) pool.

CLIENT: That's it, yeah. Now, of course, finding those people, making a real connection, being able I mean that's a whole other you know, it's a huge fucking city. But I don't know, I do wonder. I do wonder about that.

THERAPIST: Hmm. Umm.

CLIENT: So I don't know. There's a part of it, it's like, well, if I can't save enough money to go to Assyria this summer, why don't I just go to S.F. for a month, $400 ticket or whatever, buy them ahead of time, whatever the fuck.

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: I have places to stay and...

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: I work from home, but that doesn't matter, you know. [0:09:04]

THERAPIST: Um-hmm. Um-hmm. Umm.

(Pause 0:09:04 to 0:09:14)

CLIENT: Because I do feel like I'm kind of like what am I doing. Like yeah, I did feel good. Like I'm kind of like flirting with this chick, that one; I don't feel bad. But then I'm thinking like yeah, but maybe part of the reason I don't feel bad is because I'm not invested in any of these the way I...

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: You know, I go with Kelly, maybe I'm not. You know, maybe I'm just... It's just convenient because she's also she's kind of not here. She's super-busy.

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: So it's kind of convenient for both of us in a way. Like, she's not in a rush to introduce me to her family or whatever. I mean she talks about it, but, you know... So I'm like, well, maybe this is the time when I need to since (ph) I'm taking better care of myself...

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: If I really feel like this is going to be something (ph)... I don't want to resent someone I'm with or...

THERAPIST: Um-hmm, um-hmm. Umm.

CLIENT: So it's like I wouldn't even have to say anything. Like it's just a trick (ph) do you know what I mean? [0:10:09]

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: Go and visit my family, whatever; I'm going to stay out there for, you know, whatever.

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: While things are still not you know, I'm not engaged. I'm not living with anybody. I'm not, you know...

THERAPIST: Um-hmm. Umm.

CLIENT: Makes sense, right?

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: Owwhh (ph).

THERAPIST: It makes sense in that kind of practical surface (ph) level. And it feels like it will be also the other wells (ph) to it, and not totally fair to myself (ph).

CLIENT: Probably. I mean I think that's where the yearning well, there's definitely some yearning. Something is going on.

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: This nervous energy or whatever.

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: Maybe that's what it is, you know? Maybe like yeah, I go out and I meet chicks, whatever, but it's not there's a part of it that's uncapped (ph), but how do you know? How do you know that it wouldn't be great to here comes a cool Assyrian chick you can speak Assyrian to, and she gets that part of you, and -

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: Your you know, gets all of it.

THERAPIST: Um-hmm, um-hmm.

CLIENT: You know? I don't know that because I haven't really... I've tried, but like I said, here, it's just impossible. New York, not really. You know, it's just a stupid thing. S.F. is the only S.F. or Assyria. And S.F. is better because it's the States. I mean at least they would get that as well, you know what I mean? And I wouldn't worry that they're trying to get a green card or whatever you do. I mean not to sound like an asshole, but that does happen. [0:11:40]

THERAPIST: Um-hmm. Umm.

CLIENT: So you know, yeah, it's a very practical thing, but yeah, you're right, I think it's also

and that's what I wonder about. I'm like maybe this restlessness; like why, why do I want to go out tonight, for example?

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: I mean I don't know. Like, I don't mind being at home, kind of, but things while I'm at home, I do find myself uncomfortable. And I'm good, but I'm like I'm awake; I'm not... Even when I'm exhausted, I'm just kind of yearning for something or I'm searching for... Do you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: So maybe that's what it is.

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: You know?

(Pause 0:12:16 to 0:12:23)

CLIENT: I don't know. Maybe I'm not as, like, American I mean I am, but I'm not maybe. I can't decide which is which.

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: But I feel like I need to it would be nice to figure it out (chuckling).

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: I mean I'm lucky I don't have kids. You know, those are practical things, but they're important things that makes us...

THERAPIST: Right.

(Pause 0:12:45 to 0:12:55)

CLIENT: And also because I know that my family over there, even when it's my dad's side, you know what I mean...

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: And I've always... Over there, I'm the oldest. [0:13:05]

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: I'm the youngest first cousin.

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: But the oldest second cousin, do you know what I mean, to their kids, you know?

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: So like they would totally like I'm not saying they would hook me up, but that's a lot of young people who are in my family, do you know what I mean? In their twenties and whatever.

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: And you don't know. You don't know. You know, you don't know what, you know, hanging out with them and they're all if nothing else, they're just awesome people and I love them. I love spending time with them. They can be really fun, you know. I really while I think of that, it really kind of blows my mind. I never go out there to forget my mom, whether she wants to go or not. She's scared to fly and I don't give a fuck. But the flights aren't expensive. You know, like, when I'm there I don't I might have to rent a car, I guess, or whatever; that could be kind of pricey, but that would make up for not having to spend on hotels. I mean it's not that expensive. In S.F. you can get really cheap rental cars, you know? [0:14:05]

But I was trying to psych my I'm like, wow, I don't take advantage of this awesome family that I have out there, you know?

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: Who are genuinely, like, on my side and can [more like] (ph) hook me up with chicks or they want to I don't know. They're just very in a good way, you know, without making me feel uncomfortable or bad or whatever, you know.

THERAPIST: Who exactly is out there?

CLIENT: My dad's side.

THERAPIST: And but who [staying on that side] (ph)? Who -

CLIENT: His two sisters.

THERAPIST: Uh-huh.

CLIENT: And my one aunt's children. One, two...

THERAPIST: So his sister's children.

CLIENT: Well, his one sister never married. My sister my aunt kind of became like their mom when their mom died.

THERAPIST: Uh-huh.

CLIENT: She's like 80 or something; she's old.

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: So she became like this mom figure, so she doesn't have any kids or anything. Her sister, my other aunt, is the one I've seen. She still gets her hair done and smokes and drinks coffee, and she's all like, you know... She's a tough cookie. I mean she's not someone I could spend a lot of time with, but she's awesome. She's one of these people who's like she can kind of be a little not gruff, but a little much. She has a very strong personality, but she's just so fucking cool. I mean are you like kidding me? You're like 85 and you're like getting your hair did and fucking smoking those little thin cigarettes and making jokes, and being kind of like a tough broad. Like that's... And then so her kids, my first cousins, are there. Then my aunts. This jackass doesn't talk to me anymore; my other first cousin; that's my dad's brother's kid.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: They moved to S.F., but, you know, just my uncle and my aunt died, who were pretty old. So their daughter is still there to we talk to. She's the one with MS. She's like an amazing, amazing woman.

THERAPIST: Hmm. [0:16:04]

CLIENT: So yeah, and then her son, my second cousin, you know, so he's 18, 19, something like that. And my one cousin has four daughters. My other cousin has three kids. Like, you know, they're a big brood of people.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: That's... And they're just the exact opposite of this cluster fuck. When they get together, it's just fucking laughing and playing backgammon and just joking around, and it's just really fun. So yeah, I think I need to... And I just I've never taken advantage of that, really, you know. I've never just spent time with them, you know, so even though they keep saying over and over and over, you know...

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

(Pause 0:16:51 to 0:16:55)

THERAPIST: So maybe that's something you're yearning for.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Do that.

CLIENT: Yeah. Like I think that maybe that's part of what it is. I just miss that, you know. [0:17:04]

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And through them, maybe that's my Assyrian side. But not just with them, but some of my friends who... But yeah, that is kind of nice.

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: Like yeah, I know that these guys are immigrants, but they are also they've been here a long time, you know.

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: There's something about their wives and stuff, and they just get each other and...

THERAPIST: Umm.

CLIENT: And we can go back and forth between English and Assyrian.

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: And, I don't know, man, that's pretty it's cool, you know? I don't know. I know what you're saying. Like the grass is always greener, so I don't mean it that way. I just mean you don't know until you explore it. Like I haven't had one Assyrian girlfriend, other than that one years you know, when I was all fucked up.

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: So I don't even know what it's like. I'd like to just know. Like yeah, right now, I have an Assyrian girlfriend; let's see what this is like, you know? If it sucks, then... I mean that would suck in the sense that I'd be giving other things up, you know what I mean? That's the fear is that if I broke up with someone like Kelly or whatever, then that's that. Then I'm back to square one. It could be bad. Thank you for that fuck. I mean now I'm totally screwed and I really should have just... You know what I mean? [0:18:17]

THERAPIST: Um-hmm. Yeah.

CLIENT: But what do you do? You know, if you're feeling that yearning, I don't know what you're supposed to do. That's why I feel like the best thing is it's a little gray area, but the best thing is to not rush into anything, over-rush into anything. Yeah, we're boyfriend and girlfriend, but at least we're not together every single day. We're not... It's like -

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 0:18:44).

CLIENT: Yeah. It's kind of a technicality I know, but it doesn't mean it gives you the right to whatever. But it just is what it is.

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: So that way I feel like all right, well, it would suck, but there's this area, this zone right now, where I could I won't feel so bad. [0:19:02]

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: Umm...

THERAPIST: And you're not married, you don't have children, you're not weird (ph).

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. Some of it is just this is what happens. People date, they might even date kind of seriously. But things do happen, and if they're not completely if they haven't taken it to that whatever next level, then it's not it's not a great thing to... You know, it's sad, but you've got to follow through on whatever your gut is telling you, you know?

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: Owhh (ph).

(Pause 0:19:32 to 0:19:52)

THERAPIST: And your mainly (ph) fears (inaudible at 0:19:53) to try them out here, just getting to know yourself. And maybe not now (inaudible at 0:20:02) actually, and try to try to (crosstalk).

CLIENT: That's the whole other thing, yeah.

THERAPIST: But they try and figure it out.

CLIENT: Try to figure it out, yeah.

THERAPIST: And you're saying "I've never actually done this."

CLIENT: Yeah. It's such a oh, no, I have this girlfriend now or whatever. Like I'm committed to this one whatever thing it might be. You know, it's like before I used to be like that, and I just can't anymore. You know, I think, because people every one is you know, if I'm not doing it, the other person is doing it. [0:20:25]

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: If she cancelled tonight, right? That's not a bad thing; she did what she had to do, you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: She's like "Look, you know, I've got a kid, I've got to teach in the morning," and...

THERAPIST: Umm.

CLIENT: Like so I'm glad I'm being more like that.

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: Do you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Um-hmm, um-hmm.

CLIENT: That's not a bad thing. I used to feel bad about shit like that, but fuck it, you know? I remember being, when I was with Julia (sp?). I got like kind of like defensive and react-shish (ph). She told me about this girlfriend of hers who was dating this guy very seriously. Then one night they went out and she just met some other dude. [0:21:01]

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: And now she has three kids with that guy.

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: And I remember I got kind of like really like it yeah, but I said, well, what the fuck? Then what does any of it mean then, like?

THERAPIST: Umm.

CLIENT: And she was here, that German rap (ph). She's like,

Well, I mean but isn't it better that she's with who she should be with now?"

THERAPIST: Umm.

CLIENT: I mean obviously there was something that that she has three children with this guy, and now they're married and have a happy life. And yeah, at the moment that other thing was sad, but isn't it better that she found the right person? And it's better that the dude she was with was it sucked, but at least she didn't just stay in it and drag it on and then divorce him when they were 50 or... But I felt like very kind of...

THERAPIST: Umm.

CLIENT: You know, it's that whole not knowing, and things can just change on you like that.

THERAPIST: Umm.

CLIENT: So how can you trust anybody really? Like how I mean yeah, you say you trust them, but... Because yeah, that shit happens all the time, so what does any of this mean? [0:22:03]

THERAPIST: Umm. That's the other like that I wonder about, possibly being afraid in this, too is there's a way something fearful of like your trust with Kelly has been rattled a little bit.

CLIENT: It honestly hasn't.

THERAPIST: No?

CLIENT: No, it honestly hasn't. I mean my mind does go there a little bit, but only in the way that any guy's or girl's mind would a little bit. No, I think it's just I don't know. To me, it just feels like a very healthy yeah, I kind of don't want to see any girl, I don't want to date any girl, more than like two times a week right now.

THERAPIST: Umm.

CLIENT: Unless I'm so like I want to marry this chick, you know? I just don't feel like it. Even three days is okay. I'm busy. Like I feel really busy, and I feel like if I want to socialize I can see my friends and have beers and burgers.

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: And just be completely relaxed and be myself and not feel any there's no expectation, there's no... I can just go home and sleep and just live my life, you know? [0:23:07]

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: So I mean I don't think it's that.

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: Is it that on a deeper level that... I don't think so. And I think they'd be honest if I -

THERAPIST: Yeah. I guess the part that I guess I'm kind of still trace is how it felt like you were really into her.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Really excited by the relationship.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And really falling.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: To a point. And then it felt like something happened.

CLIENT: Well, I put on the brakes, okay? I think what happened was I was like, oh, I'm doing it again, I'm doing it again, do you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: I used the L word first with her. Yeah, I mean I waited months, but still, I was the first one, and she doesn't say it.

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: You know, we had that little thing the other week, which was like yeah. She said, "I don't know. She said, "I'm worried that that's..." It's like I'm just not good with that. I'm not good with having emotive conversations or whatever or to the... She's like to the extent that you are. She's just (ph) very open. She'll say things that are very heartfelt and like heart-on-your-sleevish, like. Actually I love that, but I'm not so much like that, so I'm worried that you're going to feel like it's not reciprocated, you know? [0:24:20]

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Which that's very honest. I mean I love that. That I was I was like wow, was that a cool person. That's more than most used to explain, do you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I felt that that's heartfelt, you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Yeah, heartfelt.

CLIENT: That's heartfelt, you know what I mean? That shows that you care, that you're being thoughtful, and you're being a... [0:24:35]

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: So it's not really... I think it's more just... I think it's just a how I feel. Like I just put the brakes on more (ph), because I figure, you know what? It is all great, but it is all so...

THERAPIST: But maybe it's also not the perfect fit, then, you're saying; it's that there's something -

CLIENT: I'm just saying I don't know. I'm just saying I don't know. I'm just saying it's good for what it is right now and I enjoy it, but... Yeah, I'm not ready for it to get, like, more serious than it is right now.

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: And I don't think she is either.

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: I think somewhat we do say these things, but like she's met my friends. She's been to shows. She wants me to meet this person. Yeah, people do that; that's fine. And I know she wants to protect her kid or whatever, or introduce me to her kid, whatever it is. But I can tell we're both I might be more open with things I say. [0:25:27]

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: But I think we are both kind of like we're happy with the way it is. I mean, well, she's even said that, I mean at some point earlier in the relationship. She's like "I just feel like what we have is working. Let's just, you know..." And I didn't even take that the wrong way. I was like yeah, it is working. We have a great time, and we're both really busy, and we're both very... I think what it is, we're both she's prioritizing, too. Her work is very important to her.

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: And her child is her absolute and that's the way it should be, you know? And if I'm going to play somewhere (ph), I'm not like that anymore, where the girl is the...

THERAPIST: Hmm (ph)? [0:26:06]

CLIENT: You know well, she don't mind. So I'm realizing like... You know what I mean? So I just feel like it's really... Unless I'm really, really in love with someone and I want to, over time, like wow, yeah, I want to see this person more and I want to marry them or I want to live with... Then I don't feel a need to push it more than it just is. 0:26:26

THERAPIST: Umm. Um-hmm.

CLIENT: But I don't feel bad about it.

THERAPIST: Is there also a left-out (ph) feeling right now because you're yearning for something?

CLIENT: Well, that's -

THERAPIST: That will pull you that way?

CLIENT: Well, see, that's the thing. For me, that's why it's complicated. For other people, this wouldn't be that complicated. Because if I was just American -

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: I mean I am American. But American in the sense where whatever my cultural background my heritage is just whatever, like everybody else, do you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: That would be different. Then I could say, well like this wouldn't even be happening. I mean the thought would be, all right, well, Kelly is we do get each other. My God, it's like culturally, every way, that would be like who else would I look for, in a way? Unless I'm going to be petty and get to things like, well, her the way she looks, you know what I mean? [0:27:17]

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: That culturally, you know, I would be like, well, that's going to be weird, like my family and her family. Like how's that going to work?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: You know, wars with my mom because she has a son. Like these cultural things that are just because of this other inherent background of mine. So you know what I mean? So the yearning is just that I it would be nice for a little while to know what would that be like if I did have a real girlfriend who spoke Assyrian but was also very American.

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: What would that be like, you know, if...

THERAPIST: You want to be liked for who you are today.

CLIENT: That's what I'm saying.

THERAPIST: It's really different.

CLIENT: That's what I'm saying, right, right. If I tried it and I was like yeah, you know what? It is now it's... You know, that would be just a sad realization, which I am worried about anyway; that if I'm with an Assyrian chick, I'm going to give up one thing, and if I'm with Kelly or whoever, I'm giving up something else. [0:28:14]

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: That's a sad place to be. I'm worried that that's where I'm going to end up. But that's a very sad place to be for me, because then I'd feel like I'm not 100 percent satisfied. You know, that's so I'd be committed to someone completely. I don't know.

THERAPIST: Yeah. There may be layers that are actually the practical level (ph) of having them try this before and it's definitely not in [this hand] (ph).

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: And there may be layers that are actually about the cultural difference that and it does make it different.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And there may be more psychodynamic layers underneath that about can you ever feel fulfilled.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: With one person.

CLIENT: Right, right.

THERAPIST: Or is it just something -

CLIENT: Yeah. Maybe deep down it's the fear of that ultimate commitment, you know?

THERAPIST: Um-hmm. And it doesn't have to mean it's only that, but that that could be at (ph) clear alongside of these other parts, too. [0:29:13]

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah, I believe that that makes sense.

(Pause 0:29:16 to 0:29:28)

THERAPIST: You know, I see why your feelings of claustrophobia (inaudible at 0:29:32) and how I cannot imagine how it wouldn't play out in a relationship at some point for you.

CLIENT: Um-hmm. Feeling claustrophobic, yeah.

THERAPIST: Feeling claustrophobic..

CLIENT: It does happen, yeah.

THERAPIST: So either yearning and she's unreachable and that's almost safe for you, because you certainly aren't hypo (ph) claustrophobic.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: Because you can't get her...

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: But if she's there, then when you're (inaudible at 0:29:55) Kelly, I was saying, you know, is that she did say at some point she wanted to introduce you she started to think about her son.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah.

THERAPIST: And that was big for you.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And then first you came in here and it was -

CLIENT: It was big.

THERAPIST: It was sort of like the world had turned around.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: In your relationship. [0:30:10]

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And I didn't know where that was headed but...

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: It felt to me like, after that, you started withdrawing some.

CLIENT: Hmm. Yeah, probably, yeah.

THERAPIST: There may be other layers of, well (ph), if somebody wants to be with me and spend the rest of their life with me and wants to introduce their son, that you might go running, too.

CLIENT: Yeah. No, there's no doubt. Yeah, I'm with you on that, yeah. Yeah.

(Pause 0:30:34 to 0:30:41)

CLIENT: I don't know. It's tiring. Because like you said, there are just so many factors all at once. I don't... I think that's why I've gotten better at having a little not like a fuck-it attitude, but I think it is a little healthy. I'm just kind of like not letting it take over.

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: You know, whatever. I'm dating this girl. Even if she does introduce me to her son, what the fuck? I mean it's not it's like I'm a sleazebag. Like these things happen. If it works, it works. If it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. [0:31:13]

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: I do want to be careful not to just run away from something. But I think I am being that's why I'm being very, like I don't have a talk with her about anything. I don't need to... Do you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Let's just it's twice a week, whatever the fuck it is; it's fine, you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Umm.

CLIENT: I think it's much more like something I never used to do before, which is a much more adult and savvy approach to this.

THERAPIST: Umm.

CLIENT: I would just kind of like doop-doop (ph) just this girl. Yep, I love you, and that's that, and it's like, you know, it's not the way people date. Like that's really not how these things work. I mean if they're really, really, really in love, then yeah, that's a different story. But most situations like this aren't exactly like this. People are feeling each other out. Yeah, they might even meet their families or whatever, but doesn't mean you have to feel like you've already signed some kind of contract and like you're just dwelling on it all the time and, you know... Does that make sense? [0:32:20]

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: You know, people date all the time. They fucking meet each other's families. They have dinners with each other. For me, that's the other thing. Because I don't do that, these things become a big deal. You know what I mean? Other people date after like a month. They introduce them: "Hey, it's my mom." Like do you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Of course.

CLIENT: You know, I don't do that.

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: So that's always loaded. That's a loaded thing for me. So even then, I'm like phewf (ph), you know? So what happens is I reverse that. Oh, then I met her mom, like.

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: Who the fuck cares? I mean yeah, okay, that is a big deal, but come on.

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: Do you know what I mean? Like because for me it's loaded, I assume it's loaded all around, you know?

THERAPIST: Umm, yeah.

CLIENT: And yeah, it is a little bit. Yeah, she hasn't introduced any guy since she got that's a big deal.

THERAPIST: Um-hmm. [0:33:05]

CLIENT: But it's also not the end of the fucking world if it goes one way or the other, you know? And I don't have to feel shitty or constantly be thinking "Am I doing the right thing? What am I doing?" I don't know, does that make sense?

THERAPIST: Um-hmm. There's a lot of guilt.

CLIENT: That's what I'm saying.

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 0:33:26).

CLIENT: In the past, yeah, very. Now there's still a little bit there. I'm worried like it might be ethical or... But luckily I'm getting much I'm just having these (inaudible at 0:33:37) take a breath (ph) on me, too. Who the fuck cares?

THERAPIST: Umm.

CLIENT: I'm a good guy about to you know, I'm just trying to figure things out for my life, you know, so...

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: Whereas in the past, that wouldn't even cross my mind.

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: That I need to look out for what I want and what... Do you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: But now that I'm looking out for what I want, it does make me feel kind of bad (chuckling), because I'm not used to it and I feel like, you know...

THERAPIST: Hmm.

(Pause 0:34:02 to 0:34:13)

CLIENT: I don't know (yawning).

(Pause 0:34:13 to 0:34:41)

THERAPIST: Who might have caused your the guilt?

CLIENT: Well, it's [really to say] (ph) it's my mom. It's...

THERAPIST: Umm.

CLIENT: You know, I feel like I have to appease others.

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: You know, I have to put others first. I have to, you know...

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: Because either they're better than me or they or if you're invisible and you're getting some attention, like "Oh, I have to cuddle," you know, whatever they want, or you know, how dare I think of myself, and maybe I don't want this. But if that's going to hurt this person's feelings and they're going to hate me and they're you know, whatever.

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: Say what?

(Pause 0:35:18 to 0:35:24)

CLIENT: Or that if I look out for myself, then, like I was saying, that means I might have to give up certain things.

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: And if you've always kind of hated yourself it's... What if I don't find someone like Kelly again?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: If I decide you know what I mean? Clearly, we know now that that's nonsense; I mean one after the other after the other. I've had amazing girlfriends.

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: So that still is there, but now it's way in the background, like it's just white noise. I guess like yeah, whatever, yeah, this... Yeah, it's like now I have more realistic, healthy...

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: Sure, it would suck if I had to make some kind of decision and not be with Car... I really, really care about her deeply. [0:36:01]

THERAPIST: Umm.

CLIENT: But I care more about what I need in my life (chuckling) that have a fulfilled or as close as I can get to a, you know... So I can't just do you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Um-hmm, um-hmm. Yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah, it's always that fear that, oh, if I don't have Samantha, then I'm never, ever going to find someone like... Or this one or that one.

THERAPIST: Umm.

CLIENT: Fucking nonsense, you know? So now that I don't feel that hardly at all, it's just like whoa. It's like wow, there's a world out there.

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: Umm...

THERAPIST: Hmm.

(Pause 0:36:37 to 0:36:46)

THERAPIST: If you're not so terrified of being abandoned.

CLIENT: Yeah, being alone, abandoned, getting older. No one's going to give a shit about me because I'm getting older or... I'm not saying those things still aren't there, but like I said, they're much more I mean they're on a very low frequency, you know? [0:37:03]

THERAPIST: Um-hmm. Hmm.

CLIENT: Umm, to the point where I think they're where they would be for a lot of other people who are healthier about these things, you know.

THERAPIST: Umm.

CLIENT: So again, no shit, no one likes to be alone. No shit, no one likes to break up with their boyfriend or girlfriend or whatever. But it's all again, it's more important to look out for yourself and do the right thing for you.

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: Which is also fair to the other person.

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: You know, so... So my attitude has been, in the past, I feel like I've rushed and been rash about things.

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: I still don't do that. There's no reason to do that, you know, so... And that's one of the things about Samantha that I do not that I regret, but I do think about. Like, you know, back then, if I just chilled and been like this, yeah, we would probably have dated waaaay (ph) longer.

THERAPIST: Um-hmm. Um-hmm.

CLIENT: You know? Umm, I totally freaked her out. Someone like her just couldn't she was completely you know, it was a bad combination of aloof and someone going through a really difficult time and being super-emotional and, like, too much like hard on sleep. [0:38:20]

THERAPIST: Hmm.

(Pause 0:38:21 to 0:38:33)

CLIENT: Say I'm with Michelle. So when I think back, taking taxis all the way for Michelle, you know, when I first met her, and being all like, you know, heart-racing mode, but that's nice. But I know enough now to know that that's it's infatuation, slash, just attraction. I mean that's the stuff that happens when you first hook up with somebody. But you know, I just know enough not to... No, I don't think so. I'm broke, so why am I spending $40 to take a cab from here to... What am I doing?

THERAPIST: Um-hmm. [0:39:06]

(Pause 0:39:06 to 0:39:18)

CLIENT: It's just the same thing that's with all of them, not just with... Same thing with that stupid college, right? This all started a while ago.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: It's like you know what? I don't have to do this. What am I doing? I don't have to be here. Like that's been an amazingly empowering feeling, amazing, and that is how I know in some ways I'm already beyond a lot of people my age on that front. I just that's very liberating to just stop and like you know what? No one's putting a gun to my... I don't need to be here, or I don't need to be in with this person, or I don't need to see these friends all the time and to feel like... Do you know what I mean? What am I doing? I don't know, for me, that was that's been an amazing life-changer. You know, I just stopped and am doing what it Well, (inaudible at 0:40:11). [0:40:12]

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: It's the feeling you can do it in your own eyes.

CLIENT: Yeah. And like, "Oh, I'm sorry. Did I've hurt the woman who hired me?" She's a little bit upset. La-de-da, I don't fucking care.

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: In the past, I would have taken the job; it would have been a nightmare. Do you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: Like just...

THERAPIST: To please other people.

CLIENT: Yeah, nonstop. Not just relationships, but into everything, you know; friendships, relationships, jobs, whatever. You know, it's... Come on. It was my goal: Thank you for this, thank you for that, thank you... And I was like until the guy fucking told me to stop saying thank you, you know? [0:41:01]

THERAPIST: Umm.

(Pause 0:41:03 to 0:41:59)

CLIENT: I think it's what I mean I'm also hung over, but I think it's also why I've been getting slightly more headaches lately. [0:42:05]

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: The tension headaches. I think it's like a burst of energy and like a release of energy and like you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: Which is wonderful and also a little tiring and kind of jarring and like it makes me, you know... It's a lot to process.

(Pause 0:42:28 to 0:42:38)

THERAPIST: It looks like you've been crying (inaudible at 0:42:41).

CLIENT: Today?

THERAPIST: Yeah. Just now, just a second ago. You cried before you said it's these headaches.

CLIENT: Oh, really? No. It was -

THERAPIST: These headaches, which you've had?

CLIENT: Yeah. It's just well the band tension actually (ph). No. I was almost going yesterday.

THERAPIST: Hmm. You (inaudible at 0:42:58).

CLIENT: Yeah. (Yawning). I've got a lot to do.

THERAPIST: I mean headaches also can hold (ph) feelings in them (crosstalk). [0:43:06]

CLIENT: I think that's also what I mean, too. They've got things that are being released, so it's like a physical yeah, care (ph).

THERAPIST: Planning (ph) there's only so far.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

THERAPIST: It's a (inaudible at 0:43:17).

CLIENT: No, you're right, you're right. No.

THERAPIST: I think your dreams throw out about things coming out of your mouth and getting stuck in your mouth. Remember that?

CLIENT: Yes. I'll have to remember next time to tell you about the dream I had last night, weird dream where I was a photographer.

THERAPIST: Um-hmm.

CLIENT: Who kept almost getting fired.

THERAPIST: Oh.

CLIENT: Yeah. Because I wasn't able to take good photographs or develop I was having trouble developing those.

THERAPIST: Yeah. (inaudible at 0:43:55).

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: So one more week, Wednesday?

CLIENT: [How can we do that?] (ph) (Chuckling).

THERAPIST: (Chuckling). (inaudible at 0:44:03) for a while (chuckling).

CLIENT: Cool. Thank you.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Have a good weekend.

THERAPIST: Yeah. [0:44:20]

END TRANSCRIPT