TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: Have you deposited anything I gave you this week?

THERAPIST: I haven't made a deposit this week. I don't think you gave me something this week. Do you mean from last Friday?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: I don't think I've deposited it yet. I might still have the check.

CLIENT: If you haven't, could you maybe wait until like next Thursday or Friday?

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: The car is fucked. (sighs) Yeah, it sucks. Now I have to go to the bank and have them withdraw the payment I make to my uncle for the loan. I need them to withdraw that because I get paid next Friday, so it's fine if it's Friday. The car is going to be like $500 or something like that. [00:00:58]

THERAPIST: So this week will be hard to pay something to?

CLIENT: I'm going to give you a check. I'm going to drop it off on Monday or whatever; but yeah, as long as you don't deposit it until Friday we're good. Sorry.

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: It was a nice walk. That's good. It's beautiful outside. I should be walking more anyway.

THERAPIST: This is also the window?

CLIENT: Yeah, because he has to take the whole door apart. That whole thing has to come apart. He has to order the whole regulator, the thing that makes the window go up and down, the cable, the whole mechanism. I think he's kind of cutting me a deal. I think he would otherwise charge more for labor, but I usually just pay him cash. I actually can't even pay him all of it. [00:01:57] I'm going to try and give him a little more than half and then next Friday, when I get paid, I'll have to go. This is the problem, though. This is why I'm not quite making enough because now what's going to happen is there is going to be an avalanche of things coming out of my paycheck next Friday, so I'm constantly . . .

THERAPIST: It's like there's no big expenditure but if any one thing happens . . .

CLIENT: Well that's the thing, it's still not fine. I'm just kind of scraping. I'm excited when I still have a positive balance in my account when I get paid. I'm like, "Oh, wow. I made it all the way." I'm not even doing anything. Unless I just stay at home and do nothing, (laughs) [iced coffee?] (ph?) I don't know. It's so annoying. [00:03:02] (pause) Again, it brings up stuff with my mom because you see, this is what I mean I just rented this apartment, right?

THERAPIST: You did rent it?

CLIENT: Yeah. I gave it to the lady with the dog and all that. So we got $3450. I rented it for $1725 first and security. It's like this weird dynamic because I just sign the checks right over to my mom. I understand this has been hard. She manages, but she . . . I don't know. I don't know what's going on with her. I know that she manages somehow, but she also complains a lot and gets super, super anxious and worried and all that, so it's a little annoying. [00:03:59] I feel like I need a few hundred dollars of that, do you know what I mean? It's like all this shit is just annoying. But whatever. I've just got to work on it. That's why it's important to have the equity in the house. That's why I don't have to deal with her shit or feel like I'm somehow asking for what's kind of half of which is rightfully mine. (pause) I don't even know what's going on with my consolidated loan. I haven't gotten anything asking me for payment and it's May, so I don't know what's going on there. I've got to double check. [00:05:02] I checked last month and I was approved and all that. I don't know if there's some kind of grace period. I don't know what the hell is going on because I also got letters saying, "Thank you for banking. This amount was paid out," like it was paid because of the . . . I've got to start paying $300 a month.

THERAPIST: I thought you were paying that already.

CLIENT: Now I'm kind of I'm not worried that's definitely going to get paid one way or the other. (pause)

THERAPIST: You had started thinking about working again.

CLIENT: It's hard. I've been away from it so it's harder. I've told them, but I was in the network. They knew me; the students knew me. Now I'm not in that so it's hard to just pick it up now. Most students know some of the teachers and they want to be tutored by those teachers and whatever reputation I had, those students are gone. (pause) I don't know. (long pause) [00:07:39] I don't know if I need to even forget about the opportunity. I don't know if I need to start looking, look at what other jobs are out there. It's still not easy out there, that's the problem. [00:08:00] (pause) I need to make like $10,000 more. That would make a world of difference.

THERAPIST: This job is so fantastic in so many ways. It's hard to not imagine trying to add something to it instead of . . .

CLIENT: Or that. Yeah. Exactly.

THERAPIST: It allows you so much flexibility.

CLIENT: Yeah. Or maybe I need to focus on the grant writing idea or something. I kind of tried to do that, but that's not easy either.

THERAPIST: No, it's not.

CLIENT: You're building why someone is going to give you a couple of grand when you don't have a proven track record. Or I could do a side editing thing. That's something I'm more than qualified for. Academic editing or some shit like that, but even that, it's Darien. Every fucking Brown student is trying to you know what I mean? You've got to drum up business. These things aren't easy to just start doing. (long pause) [00:10:11] It's just crazy to even have this problem. It's so funny. Do you know what I mean? It's like there's something that's absurd to me about being so broke and stressed about money when you're not poor. That's absurd. That's such a misuse of what you have. It makes absolutely no fucking sense. So in a way, I feel like that's my job right now. I need to find a way to capitalize on the house and make that work for me. If nothing else, it just gives you breathing room because the weird thing is this job is enough. [00:11:07] That's the thing. We have plenty of equity in the house. If I was doing something with that, where the money is invested and trying to build on that capital. This is fine. I don't need . . . Think about it. Lately I haven't been paying into the mortgage because I just haven't been able to lately. We're fine if the equity was being put to use. $40 grand is $40 grand, if you're otherwise not constantly . . . Or I could at least think of some other way to make money without stressing so much. I could think it through. [00:12:08] I don't know.

THERAPIST: This is a [complicated] (ph?) question where does your money go right now if you're not paying the mortgage or the loan?

CLIENT: Insurance, here.

THERAPIST: For the car? Insurance for the car?

CLIENT: Yeah, insurance for the car, here, gas, groceries, electric, gas, cell phone.

THERAPIST: It just seems like there should be more. Those are just basic.

CLIENT: It doesn't. What do I get? $1100 every two weeks. It just doesn't. I don't know.

THERAPIST: It doesn't add up to me. People live on $40,000 in the city. You can't live on it if you have an extravagant rent. [00:13:02]

CLIENT: For some reason it's . . . I think what it is actually I know exactly what it is. The problem is I'm starting behind. There is already shit. Do you know what I mean? Stuff was built up so I'm already locked into this. Every time I get a check instead of like for two weeks I owe nothing or something do you know what I mean? That's not happening. The minute I got this job it was like start paying shit. That's the problem. I've been trying to play catch up and that just doesn't work. The only breathing room I have was when I did Kickstarter. For a while that was nice but, again, that money was used for stuff that it had to be used for. I think it would be different if I didn't already have a backlog of stuff that I keep trying to . . . [00:14:07] I pay the credit card now. I try to pay like $150 a month.

THERAPIST: Do you have an idea of how much it would take to wipe the slate clean?

CLIENT: What slate?

THERAPIST: To pay off the credit card and to pay off here, to pay off I don't know how much you have in loans consolidations.

CLIENT: Consolidation? No, no, no. We've got to forget about that. That's like a mortgage. That's just there.

THERAPIST: Hundreds of thousands of dollars?

CLIENT: Not hundreds, but yeah, like $200,000.

THERAPIST: So that's something you're just assuming you'll just carry for a lifetime.

CLIENT: Or that it will be a future again, building on this equity, buying property that could be something that, let's say, every two years or I just make a huge because of stuff I'm doing. Or that it will be a future again, building on this equity, buying property that could be something that, let's say, every two years or I just make a huge because of stuff I'm doing. [00:15:11] I sell a condo and I pay a chunk, $20,000. Loans to me they're fucking people so I don't even think about that. As long as my credit can be fixed and made just stable, I can't. That's too big. And plus to me, $300 is fine. I don't have $50,000 in credits. $1800 credit card. And here, hundreds of dollars a thousand dollars?

THERAPIST: $700 or something.

CLIENT: Okay. So that and $30,000 to my uncle. And he's fine. [00:16:03] And I owe my friend $1,000 when he helped me with my car when I got into an accident. What is that?

THERAPIST: So even those things, if it were wiped clean with your uncle, that's one less thing that you have to worry about paying.

CLIENT: Oh, no doubt. Of course. That's $100-something that I wouldn't have to worry about paying. Although my uncle, that one hasn't been an issue until just today because it's going to be taken out tonight if I don't postpone it; but it's $113. And I think because I don't see it, it's just gone one day every month. And the insurance for my car. It's more the credit card. The phone. That's a tough one. No matter how many times I call them and try to find ways, cell phones are just pricey. [00:17:11] Yeah, I don't know. Basically, let's say if I had $5 $10,000 right now. That would make a huge difference. Credit card gone. Here gone. (pause)

THERAPIST: The loan from your friend.

CLIENT: Yeah, the loan from my friend gone. That's the trick. If you have a little bit in your savings, even $1,000. If I had a grand in my savings and some of this other stuff was paid down, now it's totally different. Totally different.

THERAPIST: It's a question of everything, like the car.

CLIENT: Yeah. The car. [00:18:01] And when you're getting paid, I'll even put $50 into that savings. There's room. But when there isn't. All this nonsense about "just put away $10 every time you get paid." That's nice, but that doesn't work. For me it doesn't work that way. Sometimes, if you can, you have to do something bigger than that. (chuckles)

THERAPIST: But if you can't. you're saying it's not worth doing the little things?

CLIENT: Not really.

THERAPIST: Why?

CLIENT: Because what I tell my friends is not that I talk to everybody but the one or two friends I'm like I do do that anyway by trying not to fucking spend it. So if I'm left with $10, I've just saved $10 then. This nonsense about "put it into savings; put it into another account" so at the end of the year I can have $120 fucking dollars? [00:19:01] I'm not fucking 15. I don't need a piggy bank. I'm trying not to spend and if I have a little money before that paycheck comes in, then that's a fucking victory. I don't need a passbook savings account for that. It would be different if I already had a base in savings. Then that's different. Then you just keep squirrelling money away. I know. I know what you're going to say.

THERAPIST: (laughs) It's something psychologically where it doesn't work for you. The practicality of that, it's still the same thing. You're still adding $10 in. It' still $10 you've saved.

CLIENT: No, no, no. But what it is, is that I'd be adding more. Once you have that cushion, then you can put away $50, $75, $100, because you already have some flexibility. There's something that feels like I'm just bitch-slapping myself. I have to take this $10 and put it in this other account so I feel like I am fiscally responsible. [00:20:06] It's like dude, let's just leave the $10 in the checking and if it's there, when I get paid, then that's great. I just saved $10 because like when I went to Target the other day, I got some socks, I got some cheap, white undershirts and all that shit. By the time I went to the cashier I put everything away. I needed $18 earbuds. I don't know what else I can do when I keep making decisions like that. Gas. Things are pricey, that's the thing. $40,000 is I know people do live on that I'm living on it. But when you go to Star Market and you buy five things and it's like $40, I don't know what people do. [00:21:03] I buy cheap stuff. I buy frozen stuff. I don't know.

THERAPIST: It doesn't sound like it feels like you're buying things impulsively.

CLIENT: Yeah, I feel like a jackass when I go to buy vitamins at the food store because I don't buy the shitty vitamins. I'm like, "Oh, my God. How dare I buy myself things that are going to make me healthy." It's like what the fuck? (pause)

THERAPIST: So it sounds like what would work for you is to figure out some way of making $10 $20,000.

CLIENT: Yeah. If I was making like another $1,000 $2,000 a month fine. Then I could start having some breathing room. I mean I'd like to make more, but that would be a huge help. (long pause) [00:22:22] I'm not trying to be an ass, but if my mom didn't live in that unit on the second floor and she got one of these apartments that are nice not assisted living. I don't know what those are called. There are a couple of buildings like that in Cheshire. They're nice and if you're a Cheshire resident and you're a senior citizen, they're regular apartments but they're discounted. You're then talking about another rental income from that unit for $1750. [00:23:00] That would make a difference for me and her.

THERAPIST: Depending on how much her other place costs.

CLIENT: It wouldn't be . . . there's no way. It would be like $800 whatever the subsidized. My grandmother pays $200 fucking dollars. At least for her, it's a solution because she wants to save more money. It's a very easy solution. I can't do that. I'd fucking go live in some subsidized I don't give a shit. She won't do it. That's another way we're not taking advantage of the property. I don't get into it with her because I feel that she's been through a lot and she's in her 70's. I'm not going to kick my mom out of her own house. [00:23:59] (pause)

THERAPIST: You're waiting for her to die.

CLIENT: That used to be the extreme, where it would go, but no. Now I just need to do shit that benefits me and her and just say, "Look, this is what's going to happen. Enough is enough. You're going to be fine. It's going to benefit you. It's going to benefit me. There's no reason to be worried and stressed about every nickel and dime." (long pause) [00:25:28] And this is what it does. Look at this this is all I've been talking about. It just takes up your fucking head space. Money we all need it but . . .

THERAPIST: It's the foundation that makes your world safe. It's hard to think about other things if you're . . .

CLIENT: It's a tool. Yeah. It's a tool that we all need. I'm not an idealist or something, but it is a son of a bitch. You live somewhere like Darien and if you're not super conventional, you're an artist or whatever you are, entrepreneurial, everything is like . . . you have to weigh what you're willing to sacrifice and what your time is worth. [00:26:21] It's like you said, this job. Do I want it? Yeah, I want to make more money, but do I want to work 9 to 5. It's not a big deal to work 9 to 5, but it wouldn't be this. Big change.

THERAPIST: Huge change.

CLIENT: But that's why it's more motivating. It's like wait, I kind of don't have to do that. That's the whole fucking point. I have an opportunity. I'm very lucky. Other people have to work 9 to 5 or they have to take a second job. They literally have no choice. [00:27:03] Their parents didn't buy a multi-family that is now kind of theirs, basically, that they could build on. I have that opportunity so it's like what the fuck are we doing? And I have an uncle who is a fucking expert, a millionaire, who knows what he's doing. He's already gone through the hard stuff of real estate and buying and selling and making mistakes. (long pause) [00:28:44]

THERAPIST: It's annoying to talk about it to you, but I also think it's hard to talk about money.

CLIENT: Yeah, no doubt.

THERAPIST: It feels humiliating.

CLIENT: It's humiliating. It's embarrassing. It makes me anxious. It makes me angry. Yeah, mostly it's probably embarrassing. It's also emasculating. It's a double standard. I get little pats. It feels like you're not particularly manly or take charge.

BREAK IN TAPE FROM [00:29:30 to 00:32:08]

CLIENT: Yeah, I am like that. I think some of it is from my dad. I like to be that way because it comes back to you. It just creates a good energy. I believe that. (pause)

THERAPIST: It might be maybe because it's connected to uniting, sort of seeing and saying something positive; talking about women at a bar. You mean it when you say these things. Like if you say to a friend, "You look good today," it's genuine.

CLIENT: I tried to explain this to one of my friends and she got it, but she didn't get it. I was like, "You know, sometimes I am kind of faking it, but I'm not faking the sentiment. [00:33:04] Does Philip look good or not? I don't give a fuck, but you know what? I want there to be goodness in the world and Philip is my friend and you know what? Someone should tell Philip that he looks good. I'm willing to do that and people aren't. I know that's a very unique, out-there, to be that cognizant of stuff like that. But I like it. I like to be that way because I feel like I know how I get along with people and I finally see that it is kind of unique. Now I get why my dad was so . . . you know? I get along with everybody people seem to . . . you know? Like there's just something, and I think that's because I just genuinely want things to be cool and copasetic and people to feel okay. [00:34:02] I like that. It's not about wanting them to like me. I don't give a shit.

THERAPIST: That's what I mean. You see Philip and, regardless of how he looks or doesn't look . . .

CLIENT: Unless they're being assholes I mean I don't do it to anybody but people that seem cool or they're nice, it's just natural. I don't even think about it because that creates a . . . you know? Nice. It's almost like do unto others.

THERAPIST: It sounds like wanting him to feel loved.

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah. The guy is a accountant. He's getting his ass raped every fucking day at work. He hates it. So you know what? Or whatever. Like after a show I go to each one and am like, "Man, you sounded great." I'm not lying. I'll also say if there was a mistake or whatever. [00:35:02] I don't know what I'm trying to say here, but I've always been like that. In a way, that's why I do well with girls. Most guys aren't like that. I go way out of my way. I compliment a lot. And I think the other thing is and again, this is my dad's side I just always want to find the good. Maybe I don't like one thing about her, but I'll find something I do like or about whoever. (pause) [00:35:56] I'm touchy-feely as well. A couple of my friends who are girls, I'll kind of punch them. It's like being in the school yard. I like them but I'm not going to hug them all the time, so I punch them and I pull their I don't pull their hair but I'm playful with them. I do [to-dos.] (ph?) I don't have any problem putting my arm around a buddy of mine at the bar for a second or whatever. What are we talking about?

THERAPIST: We started with matador.

CLIENT: I know, but what was the point of this part of it? (chuckles) I don't know.

THERAPIST: Just thinking about why you compliment. Is there something about feeling for example, I was wondering if you were feeling more anxious or more humiliated or more uneasy about yourself, are you more inclined to compliment on one of those days? [00:37:01] You don't always say that and sometimes it could be that you simply don't like what I'm wearing, but sometimes you do and sometimes you don't; and I've wondered if it varies with the more vulnerable you're feeling that that's actually a way to feel less vulnerable, in a way.

CLIENT: I never thought about it like that. To me, it's just always a way to reach out to somebody. That's how I look at it. It's not a power thing to me. I'm just trying to humanize things and just be connected but who the hell knows? Maybe. I don't know.

THERAPIST: Well there's overlap. To humanize things means somehow your feelings of man down or disconnected. There is power; there is not.

CLIENT: Yeah, maybe.

THERAPIST: It's just a thought. It's something to pay attention to. Another way you're describing it is just feeling affectionate. Touchy-feely or complimentary is feeling loving, affectionate feelings and wanting them in return when you say do unto others. (pause) [00:38:22] It may be just that this is you. This is who you are and this is nothing that we'd ever want to change about you because it feels good. There may be ways it's motivated unconsciously by other things, too. I think it's just hard to tell.

CLIENT: No, I think sometimes that's definitely true. In here I don't feel that way, but I do know that sometimes when I'm out in a social situation I am more cognizant now of that. Sometimes I kind of stop myself a little bit because then I feel like I'm being too nice or something and I think that is something about wanting to connect and wanting to feel okay. I don't know what it is.

BREAK IN TAPE FROM [00:39:17 to 00:40:48]

(pause)

THERAPIST: There is so much criticism and not being seen or being criticized when you were a kid, I can imagine you identifying with who the other is; and giving them an experience that is so different than what you had, being seen and being loved and complimented and enjoy finding something good instead of finding something bad.

CLIENT: Yeah. That's a big part, too. When I'm not around that shit it's always about being positive, being more stoic. Yeah. That's definitely a big part of it.

THERAPIST: Being what you didn't get.

CLIENT: Yeah. Right. [00:41:48] (pause)

THERAPIST: So next week we have Wednesday and Thursday. I'm out on Friday.

CLIENT: Wednesday at 1:00?

THERAPIST: Wednesday/Thursday. Great.

CLIENT: Thank you. Have a good weekend.

THERAPIST: You, too.

CLIENT: Thank you.

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