TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: I don’t know why I bother. I always see these faces, I’m like, “Maybe…” and I always have to (inaudible at 00:00:07).

It’s weird. You would think in this heat, people would just stay away.

THERAPIST: It’s been crowded.

CLIENT: It’s not just me, right? I don’t know what that is. It’s weird.

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:00:18) or something.

CLIENT: How’s it going?

THERAPIST: Good.

CLIENT: So I got a crazy dream last night, that I remember this one. It was cool. It was really interesting.

I was with these two dudes: two older, white dudes. We were in what was supposedly London but way more beautiful than London – it wasn’t raining. There something was about it, it looked really beautiful.

We were walking around. They took me to these places; we went to some park. Then from the park, it was almost a cliff, where we took these crazy, amazing stone stairs all the way back down. [00:01:05]

At first, it was like, “Uh, guys, I’m kind of scared of heights, actually.” But then I was the one—I told you, it was like running down, skipping down these stairs.

Then we get down and we then we were in the city—over there, they don’t say “downtown,” it’s the City Centre. But it was a nicer—it wasn’t the City Center that I remember, it was nice and weird and cool.

Then we ended up with these two women. Again, I knew none of these people; none of them looked familiar. We’re in some huge, enclosed mall – something, I don’t know. We go to this place where it’s these big stone—what the fuck is that called? They’re not boulders, but huge stone natural structures. But it’s like a bar or something. [00:02:01] I couldn’t tell what the fuck it was.

In the meanwhile, one of these girls keeps telling me to go to Europe with her and marry her. I’m super torn – I’m really, really torn. I’m like, “It’s kind of rushed.” She’s leaving the next day or I don’t remember what it was. I was like, “I’m from Darien. I still have a lot of friends there. I have some commitments there and my band. We have a show next Friday.” (laughs) I was telling her we have a show next Friday. She was all pouty and upset about that.

Then I was talking to whoever these dudes are. I was like, “Guys, what do you guys think?” One of them was like, “Dude, fuck it. Just marry her, man. Who cares?” He’s like, “What, it’s not going to work out? Just go for it.” [00:03:00]

That’s most of what I remember. There were some other things, but they’re too… So this was interesting!

It wasn’t a stress dream. I felt completely… Oh! At one point, the lights all went out. That, I do remember. It wasn’t scary. It was almost fun, as if it was a thunderstorm and the lights are out.

I was using my iPhone to—

THERAPIST: [For the light?] (ph)

CLIENT: A little bit, yeah.

That, I know why. (inaudible at 00:03:35) I fucking finally joined the league of people that have cracked their iPhone screens when I got home last night.

Anyway… But yeah, very interesting dream. I was like, “Whoa, is that Julia (sp)? Is that an Julia thing?” Lately, there’s something going on with her, health-wise. Maybe that was somewhere on my mind? (inaudible at 00:03:59) like London? Who were those two dudes? I don’t know.

THERAPIST: I’m struck more by just the raw feeling, as you’re telling me, that it was a very positive (crosstalk at 00:04:11)—

CLIENT: Yeah, me too, me too. I noticed that everything that was happening, I was going for it. I’m scared of heights, but then I was jumping down the—and the stairs were fucked-up! Little, old, narrow stone steps. I think I got down there before they did or I passed one of them on the way down.

Then (inaudible at 00:04:33) the marriage thing? I didn’t feel torn in a shitty way. I felt excited, like, “Wow, I could do this! I could totally just…” She was like, “Say ‘yes!’” Just say yes, and I’ll be fine, everything’s fine.

I think there was a part of me even that was like, “Oh, you know, if I married her, she’s well-off or her family’s well-off,” it’d be such a different world for me. [00:05:04] It’s an escape.

I think that’s what it was. It wasn’t an old type of dream where I just want to escape, because I’m stressed and raging against… It was much more of a conscious… I wasn’t bad-mouthing anything. I was like, “Darien is my home. I have a lot of friends. I have obligations that I want to do.” That was good, too – interesting.

THERAPIST: It does feel like what you’re saying is truly about what is scary but also what you’re imagining you might just go do.

CLIENT: Yeah, exactly.

THERAPIST: What if it’s not so scary? What if you actually do what you’re afraid of?

CLIENT: Yeah, exactly.

THERAPIST: Including a girl, a woman. What if you evaluate it and are not sure you want (crosstalk at 00:06:01)

CLIENT: It’s funny, too, because last night, I did something I hadn’t done in years.

Last night, I met up with my buddy Mike (sp) and our friend Isabella (sp). We were at the Independent, then we ended up at the Bar (sp). Do you know the Bar?

THERAPIST: Uh-uh.

CLIENT: It’s a good date (inaudible at 00:06:19) a good date place, but on the weekends, it gets a little pretentious. It’s all too hipster-y, pretentious. It is nice. It’s like the San Diego feel to it, which we don’t have a lot of here; there’s something San Diego-y about it.

Anyway – we go there, it’s nice and mellow, it was quiet. The bartender was actually really nice. I was talking to her. I got her name, and this, and that.

Mike left, and then it was me and Isabella. I was like, “You know what? I’m not even that into this bartender. I don’t know why. I’m just going to give her my number,” just because I haven’t done that in a long time. I don’t know what it was, I felt compelled to just give her my number. [0:07:03]

THERAPIST: Just do it.

CLIENT: Yeah. I got a pen. I think I wrote something like, “You seem cool,” or something. “Give me a call,” or something like, nothing major. I wrote it on a coaster. I paid for the thing. I put it with the check into the little glass thing.

I really don’t care whether she calls me or not. Maybe that’s part of it. In the past, that would have been a big… I would have dwelled over it. Even to do it, it would have depressed me one—both ways would have depressed me, probably. If I left it, then I’d worry about it or dwell over it. If I didn’t leave it, I’d be like, “I’m an asshole for not even trying.”

I don’t know. All these things are part of the same thing.

THERAPIST: That’s what you’re sorting through with Allison (sp), too.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: “Do I just tell her I missed her?”

CLIENT: Oh! Yeah, yeah, yeah! Yesterday, I told her I missed her. [00:08:00] She went back and forth. She was telling me all this shit she’s got going on – and she does. Yeah, she’s got a lot of shit going on.

Then I wrote back, I said, “I totally…” I wasn’t asking her out, I think she was just trying to say this is all the shit that’s going on right now.

Oh, no, I know what it was! When she first texted me back, she’s like, “I’m angry, I’m in traffic, I want to stab people,” all this shit. So it was like, “Whoa, I’m sorry you feel overwhelmed.” She’s like, “Well, it’s not so much I feel overwhelmed, this is what’s been going on.” (inaudible at 00:08:38)

So I wrote, “I totally—yeah—” Oh, that’s what it was, “this is what it is to be a single parent.” She’s like, “This is why I kind of drink. You have to juggle a million things at the same time.”

I wrote back, I was like, “I can only imagine what that’s like.” [00:09:00] And I said, “It doesn’t make me want to see you or talk to you any less, but I totally understand. Obviously, your weeks get super-busy.”

So she wrote back and she was like… I think anytime I say anything that’s serious or honest, she just does the “Ha-ha” thing. “Oh, you’re a goof,” or whatever. Which, that can go either way. It either means, “I’m not interested and you’re my buddy,” or it means it’s hard to sometimes take things when people are saying things, in a way.

It felt good. I wrote back, “You’re the goof.” (laughs) “I’m just being honest, you’re the goof.” It felt good to just be like—

THERAPIST: Persistent.

CLIENT: Yeah. And then that was it. I just left it at that.

I think these are all part of the same—it’s not that I don’t think about them, I just don’t get depressed about them or get anxious or get into a bad place. [00:10:04]

THERAPIST: Or get inhibited, [as well] (ph).

CLIENT: Or yeah, yeah.

THERAPIST: That’s the dream of just doing it. “I am scared but I’m just going to do it. (crosstalk at 00:10:15) goes well. I’m leading them down the stairs.”

CLIENT: Yeah. And just remembering that, yeah, it’s—I was thinking after I left here yesterday. That whole thing I feel, “Well, if I tell her that I miss her…” What that implies, though, is I’m coming at myself from a place of already putting myself down. Yeah, it would be weird, if I was a weird dude.

In those moments, I lose sight. If I tell this woman, if I just give her my number or if I just tell this girl I miss her or whatever, it’s as if I’m losing sight of the fact that yeah, I’m sure that they get that kind of attention otherwise – all women do. But I’m not like a lot of other guys, one. [00:11:02] But two, deep down, I think it’s this feeling of like, “Yeah, but I’m going to seem like a freak or a stalker.”

I’m none of those things. Even if they’re not interested or even if they respond or whatever, they’re not sitting around going, “This fucking weirdo, telling me he misses me.”

I think when I left here yesterday, that’s what’s going on here. It’s not just that they’re not going to reciprocate, it’s that I’m already putting myself down before anything even happens by thinking that that’s some freakish—it’s like high school, feeling like I’m the freak in high school who nobody gets. I don’t know if that makes sense.

THERAPIST: Yeah, it does. I mean, it’s already imagining yourself as doing something almost too much or inappropriate (crosstalk at 00:11:48)—

CLIENT: As if I don’t even deserve to do that. I’m not the cool guy. Even though, that I was laughing (ph), I’m exactly that cool guy. I’ve gotten away with the shit—not away with it, but that’s worked for me, these things. [00:12:03] And yet…

But that’s how I know it’s changed. Yesterday, when I left that – and I was pretty buzzed, too, so that’s also a good sign. It wasn’t that kind of… Sometimes, I would get buzzed, something like that would happen. I could get pensive. Not only did I not get pensive, I even imagined her seeing it and if nothing, it’s just a nice surprise. We had a nice chat, she was a cool person, she seemed cool. It’s flattering to her.

THERAPIST: Yeah, that even if she didn’t respond, it could still be flattering.

CLIENT: It’d be like, “Oh, that’s cool.” I wasn’t weird to her. We joked around, we talked.

That’s something in the past I don’t think I would have done. Or I would have done it a little bit later, after I was all pensive and rude (ph), but I’d be kind of faking it. I tried intellectually, like, “But no, it should be flattering.” [00:13:00]

(pause)

THERAPIST: There’s a way, even, even the cool guy, it sort of – cool guy versus the one who’s the outsider, who (inaudible at 00:13:11) deserve to feel those things. Instead of missing someone or being drawn to somebody, being just ordinary, like (crosstalk at 00:13:18)

CLIENT: Right. Just as people. Not as any kind of category.

THERAPIST: It’s just a human (crosstalk at 00:13:21), yeah. But I think there’s so much early experience you have, where it was like you started to get this image of yourself as not worthy, not human-worthy (ph), somehow.

CLIENT: Yeah, well, because they are the masters of labeling and categorizing. There are no just ordinary people. There are the attractive people. Then there are the really ugly people. And it’s really sad for those people; they pity those people, because they’re showing sympathy there.

THERAPIST: They’re above, looking down.

CLIENT: Exactly. [00:14:00]

Then there are the people that have all the power. You can want to be a musician all you want, but between all the rich people’s kids and the Jews and whoever controls the media and all that kind of shit, there’s all that.

Then there are the bad people who want to hurt you nonstop. There’s really no room for any overlap or complexity or…

THERAPIST: Or whole people. There are no whole people.

CLIENT: Yeah, there are no whole people.

THERAPIST: A whole person.

CLIENT: The only thing that covers everybody that they have is you can’t trust anybody. That’s pretty much – I think – their only common bond that we all share, apparently. Is that we can trust each other, I guess – somehow – but, overall, you can’t trust anybody. Yeah, some fucked-up shit.

My mom, at least, has some semblance of something. [00:15:04] She has some semblance of whatever you want – rationality. My other aunt, I’ve told you. The attractive people are not just attractive, they actually are better people. They’re better people.

That’s where my mom and my uncle, that’s where they’re like, “Whoa, what?” They have some… Even the trust thing, my mom’s not like that. My mom would say, “Look. Yeah, you have to be very careful. Yes, a lot of people want to—” she’ll go there, but then she’ll be like, “But wait, I have all these amazing friends.” (inaudible at 00:15:45) my mom actually has a life. “Wait a minute, I trust these people?” In that way, thank God.

If my other aunt was my mom? I don’t think I could live around here. [00:16:01] I think that’s why my cousin – the one that didn’t talk to me for a while – I understand, now, a little bit. He did the wrong way, because I think my aunt is a wonderful person. There’s a way to not completely disown your mother – just live on the other side of town. These are people that can’t drive outside their little towns. They’re not going to come hunt you down.

So he did the wrong way, but I do get it, now. I agree, the woman he chose, whatever, she’s a—I get all that. My aunt’s really off the deep end, it’s too much.

THERAPIST: It’s crazy-making paranoid projections.

CLIENT: What worries me – I wouldn’t tell my mom this – but I worry for her, as she gets older. People get that way after 70 or something, this woman’s 60. [00:17:05]

THERAPIST: It’s not age.

CLIENT: What’s that?

THERAPIST: It’s not age; it’s her (crosstalk at 00:17:07)

CLIENT: Yeah, it’s not age. It’s her character. She’s always been that way. I worry that that’s going to get so entrenched and weird. I’m sure she’s already pretty eccentric: no friends, no… Fucking Providence suburb. I don’t know.

Anyway, yes, that’s what I was thinking of yesterday. Even when I’m saying, “Oh, should I text her?” I’m immediately coming at myself from this angle of, “Am I a stalker? Am I being a weirdo?” It’s not seeing the situation for what it is. It’s seeing it from 1980, (inaudible at 00:17:51) still like that.

THERAPIST: And “Stalker,” specifically like somehow you were (crosstalk at 00:17:57)

CLIENT: No, that one’s because of Samantha. That was so traumatizing to me. Now I’m always worried that when I get these kinds of strong—not with average dating, not with Kelly, not with other chicks. I immediately get scared that, “Oh, I’m coming on too strong; I’m going to freak her out.”

When, again, that had nothing to do with me. I’m not proud of throwing a penny at her window or whatever to get her attention. Again, I have to stop. But that’s not me, though. I’ve never done anything—I don’t do that shit. She really drove me mad.

Now I worry that when I have these strong feelings for someone, that I’m like, “Oh, I have to totally act.” I can’t say anything. If I say, it’s like, “Oh, whoa, I barely know you and you miss me?” [00:19:01] I’m worried that any little thing I say is going to come across as…

Which is sad. That’s one of the worst things that happened because of that Samantha thing. I wasted all that – getting her flowers. I’m a pretty romantic person when I really, really, really—I like to make gestures and surprise people and do little things. When someone’s either not appreciate or tells me things like, “I don’t like surprises.”

It was Valentine’s Day. I didn’t go into her building. I called her and said, “I’m outside, I was going by.” Came down, I had flowers for her. Like, really? I went out of my fucking way; I drove all the way to the Point. You don’t like surprises? Get over yourself. [00:20:00] They’re just fucking flowers.

THERAPIST: That was her response that night, when you gave her the flowers?

CLIENT: That day, yeah.

THERAPIST: That day.

CLIENT: That was like a red flag. At the time, it was like, “That didn’t feel right. That’s weird.”

THERAPIST: Remind me, up until then – that’s kind of how the relationship had been, but subtler, with Samantha?

CLIENT: That was relatively new. We met Martin Luther King Day January 2004.

THERAPIST: It was about a month. She was always just kind of cool, but interested?

CLIENT: Well, no. It was relatively intense. Again, I wasn’t myself, back then. I could not believe my luck. I was so madly in love with her. I was like, “Oh, my God. This is it. All my life I’ve waited for this.” [00:21:01]

I think within a few weeks, I don’t know if I told her I loved her, but I did… I don’t know how I asked it. It was like, “Hey, so, you want to be my girlfriend?” “Are you my girlfriend?” (laughs) “Are we I don’t know what?” And she was like, “Yeah!”

I think I’m pretty sure I said “I love you” at some point. In fact, from what I remember, I think she said it back, too, because I don’t remember that being weird.

None of the actual things that I—those were all reciprocated. It’s just that—

THERAPIST: (crosstalk at 00:21:37) quickly for her, too, then.

CLIENT: We hooked up the very night. She invited me in, we hooked up. I think we were seeing each other at least two or three times a week. It wasn’t one of those things where I would leave at night, I would stay over. [00:22:00]

I think I used to tell you, on Sundays, she’d make soup. I was like, “Oh, my God.” That’s when I started liking cats. I would lie on her bed and read a book or just lay there and take it in.

It wasn’t about the reciprocity of saying, “I love you.” It was more there was no giving of anything else. I didn’t know anything, really, about her. She finally told me a little bit.

Basically, I think what happened was she really was not done with that asshole, at the time. That wasn’t really done. I was the casualty of her trying to be single or trying not to be with that due or whatever the fuck it was. [00:23:00]

I think, in a way, it was almost like an experimentation of, “What if this guy were my boyfriend? I’ll go with it.”

THERAPIST: I’m asking about this, also, just because we haven’t talked about that relationship for a long time, with what you see now, with these eyes. Just to hear what you understand about it now that maybe you didn’t understand then about it. It seems so different.

CLIENT: I look back on it, my behavior was… I feel sad for myself. That was so sad, so sad. To walk around for hours and hours, wondering why she’s not…

THERAPIST: Hurting.

CLIENT: Intensely. That never happened before, hasn’t happened since. It was this culmination of, I think, my aunt dying, my grandfather, this asshole—things were not good. [00:24:06]

Unfortunately, I projected. I wanted this one person; I thought she was the reward for all this shit. That this was the person I could find comfort in and refuge and some sense of… And you should never do that with anybody.

The problem was she didn’t have enough sympathy. I think she thought she did. Maybe she regrets that, too, now, I don’t know.

I’ve talked to other people about this, too, and we always—at the same time, the other person will—and I told her, even, this, I was like, “You could have come to my house at 4:00 and thrown a fucking penny at my window. Even banged on my door. I’d open it. And even if I never wanted to see you again, or I was breaking up—as a person, and as someone I’d been intimate with, and you’re reaching out to me? [00:25:03] I’d make you a cup of tea, just as a person.”

That’s what put me over the edge. That’s what it was.

THERAPIST: That’s what was the repetition about it, from your relationship with your mother. I think the piece that maybe (inaudible at 00:25:22) now, when you show up with flowers and her response was, “I don’t like surprises,” I think if that happened today, you would be saying, “Wait, that’s not okay with me.”

CLIENT: Oh, are you kidding? Yeah!

THERAPIST: “What an asshole she is to respond in that way.”

CLIENT: And not only that, I wouldn’t say it to myself, I’d say it to her. I’d be like, “Okay. Well, that’s the last surprise you’re going to get from me and I don’t even know if this is going to work out, because that’s really weird.”

THERAPIST: Like that she doesn’t deserve you and that level of thought (inaudible at 00:25:55). But if that’s going to be where she is, for whatever reason (crosstalk at 00:25:58). Then, you didn’t know you deserved anything else, in a way, because that’s always kind of how you’d been treated. Love (crosstalk at 00:26:09)

CLIENT: Deserve anything else and also because she had that checklist.

THERAPIST: Christ (ph), right? Nothing else mattered.

CLIENT: Nothing else matters. If I lose her, I’m doomed. Or, if I lose her, it just validates that I’m freakish, I’m a weirdo, and all this shit.

THERAPIST: No space, then, for there to be so much more to what makes up a person. Not who she appears.

CLIENT: That was a seriously traumatic time. And then, unfortunately, then to randomly meet the dude and realize he’s just a fucking douche who I had met before and thought he was a douche!

It wasn’t even like I thought he was a douche because of—

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:26:50)

CLIENT: I had no idea. I had met him before. When I told Bob (sp) (inaudible at 00:26:54), like, “That dude? That’s who she’s—” They’re like, “Get the fuck—that dude’s a fucking asshole. [00:27:02] If that’s what it’s all about, then get the fuck away from that.”

Of course, that’s not who she married.

THERAPIST: But that is what love felt like, for her, at the time. That’s what worked for her, because of her internal (crosstalk at 00:27:16).

CLIENT: Right, which says it all. She had her own things.

Or the fact that she just didn’t reveal much. I don’t know much about Samantha. I know she’s from Charleston (sp). Her dad, I think, is very involved in Charleston town council things. I met her brother once, think he lives in San Diego. There was no… Like, “Hey, yeah, when I was in high school, I was like this,” or, “My first boyfriend, man, that was awful, I was really traumatized.” There was no—I don’t remember what we talked about, I’ll be honest with you.

THERAPIST: In a way, then, it didn’t matter. That’s now why you were there.

CLIENT: I knew enough to know the red flags. [00:28:01] Either I would ignore them or I would confront her. Then she’d apologize, be like, “I do really love you.”

(pause)

THERAPIST: Your dream is so different than those times.

CLIENT: Even little things. Yesterday, before we went to the Bar, we were outside. I saw this girl who I met there, who I probably told you about – who I tried to go out with. [00:29:00]

Her and her girlfriend – her friend who’s a girl – we became Facebook friends. The other friend, I’ve tried to almost have a band with, when I was trying to put the band together. As far as I remember, we all became Facebook friends, the three of us. I was fine. I would still try to hang out, just as friends. I’d be like, “Hey, I’m playing a show.”

I saw her last night. She definitely saw me and pretended like she didn’t see me. I pretended like I didn’t see her.

When I got home, I was like, “You know, that’s funny, I don’t see anything on Facebook about her.” I’m no longer friends with her or her friend.

It was like, “Wow, really?” That’s kind of hurtful, in a way. But even that? I just kind of don’t care. [00:30:00] (chuckles)

Things like that could trigger—in the past, I’d dwell on that. I’d be like, “What the fuck?” I do think it’s weird or not cool, but I don’t care, really. I defriend people sometimes. Sometimes people go through their list and people they don’t really have anything to do with or contact with or whatever, they scale down their friends. Whatever, I don’t really care what the reason is.

Even things like that – or even just seeing her! In the past, the rest of the night, I would have been like, “Why isn’t that girl attracted to me?”

It’s very, very different. And it’s different in a real way – I wasn’t faking it. I wasn’t standing out there trying to look cool. I felt cool. [00:31:00] I remember standing there, being like, “I feel good. Got my pants rolled up. I’m all right. Everything’s all right.”

(pause)

THERAPIST: It was new for you tell me you missed me.

CLIENT: Was it new?

THERAPIST: It was new, in a way. [00:32:00]

CLIENT: I think I’ve said that before. No? Sorry.

THERAPIST: Maybe. But you (inaudible at 00:32:07) said in a way, it was very—

CLIENT: It was a little more off-the-cuff. Yeah, that’s true. That’s true.

THERAPIST: Comfortable about it.

CLIENT: It was more comfortable.

THERAPIST: Maybe that’s okay to feel, (inaudible at 00:32:18).

CLIENT: Yeah, it’s true.

(pause)

Oh, you know what? I didn’t tell you yesterday. There’s another project I’m doing, which I think it’s going to happen, I think. I have a good Armenian friend who’s a composer – he’s the guy that I went to Beirut with, he was nice enough to buy me my ticket. [00:33:00] He’s a real composer.

We’ve once in a while talked about doing stuff together. He’s very open-minded and he’s not a big rock guy or indie – he’s a nerdy composer guy. But he’s very open-minded and he knows his shit. He’s always been like, “You know, your songs obviously are pop songs: they have a formula. Within that, you do a lot of innovative, interesting things.”

I had this idea that I want to have a mirror band, but that’s a chamber band. I’m going to have a cello, viola, hopefully him on piano: a chamber, indie-pop band. I’m still going to be singing and playing guitar.

THERAPIST: “Mirror” meaning doing the same songs? (crosstalk at 00:33:49)

CLIENT: A lot of the same songs, different arrangements; arrangements for a chamber group.

I have a lot of songs I think might lend themselves to that, more than… [00:34:01]

THERAPIST: So he does classical music composing?

CLIENT: Yeah, he’s a classical composer. He has a jazz band, too. He’s the real deal.

Hopefully… It seems like he’s into it. If we can work together… I was like, “Why did I never think of this before?” That will really lend itself. I just needed someone to help me. I know what I want to hear, but have to explain it to trained musicians.

THERAPIST: I thought of you, yesterday. They had a whole NPR story on how do musicians possibly make a living in this era and about all the different ways people are having to become creative and having to become marketing experts instead of simply artists. What people are doing to stay alive. It’s so different.

CLIENT: It’s bad.

THERAPIST: Even for famous rock-and-rollers (ph), it’s changed quite a bit. [00:35:00]

CLIENT: You can’t expect to really… You can make money, you just can’t expect to make a lot of money. You have to have something else going on. If other things happen, that’s great.

The most successful musicians are the ones who have something that doesn’t interfere. It makes them a decent amount of money but it doesn’t suppress—

THERAPIST: It’s not an obstacle moving (crosstalk at 00:35:31)

CLIENT: It’s not an obstacle to touring. Every summer, they want to tour Belgium because they do well in Belgium. You have to be able to do that stuff.

THERAPIST: That was the heart of this story is that that’s kind of what (inaudible at 00:35:43) for successful musicians.

CLIENT: There are a lot of musicians that have other whole lives that they deal with.

THERAPIST: That’s not failure.

CLIENT: No, not at all.

THERAPIST: (crosstalk at 00:35:57) that’s actually making it work.

CLIENT: It just sucks because of the Spotify—they are—it’s ridiculous. [00:36:05] I’ve had this debate with a lot of people. I’m on Spotify, but I don’t like—

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:36:13) that.

CLIENT: I refuse to be on Pandora. You’re literally getting paid a percentage of a percentage—

THERAPIST: Isn’t it 0.04%? (crosstalk at 00:36:26)

CLIENT: There’s a great thing about Lady Gaga. One of her songs was played a million times and she got $189 or something like that.

THERAPIST: It’s hard.

CLIENT: You have no choice, on the one hand. Then people like Radiohead – who I love – yeah, they give their shit away, but they fucked the rest of us over. Of course they can give their shit away, because they make hundreds and hundreds—

THERAPIST: [They’re multimillionaires.] (ph)

CLIENT: Yeah. There’s always weird… Yeah. [00:37:00]

(pause)

THERAPIST: Tomorrow?

CLIENT: 3:10?

THERAPIST: 3:10.

CLIENT: Okay. Thank you, Claire (sp).

THERAPIST: Yep.

CLIENT: Have a good day.

END TRANSCRIPT