TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: Sorry.

THERAPIST: It's okay.

CLIENT: How are you?

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: Nice.

THERAPIST: I... (inaudible at 0:00:06) I just wanted to remind you that I'm out next week...

CLIENT: Son of a bitch.

THERAPIST: And we haven't talked about that for a long time.

CLIENT: Oh, that's next week? Son of a... that's cool.

THERAPIST: I don't know if you saw the paper I gave you a while ago.

CLIENT: Probably.

THERAPIST: You said you thought you'd lost it, so...

CLIENT: Yeah, it's all good. That's fine.

THERAPIST: I realized it didn't sound like it was in your mind.

CLIENT: Yeah, no. Okay, cool. No problem.

THERAPIST: I'm here Monday and Tuesday, but unfortunately we don't meet those days. (Chuckling) So it's only the second half of the week, which covers our days.

CLIENT: Oh, yeah. No, that's fine. (Pause) So going to the dentist Tuesday. (Pause) [0:00:57] It's a guy I know, so... and my... we have... one of my really good Assyrian friends talked to him for me. And so, if you can cut him... so that's really nice. And he does cosmetic as well, so I'm going to see if he can just take care of this shit so I don't have to worry about it again.

THERAPIST: Cosmetic meaning...?

CLIENT: So after they do the cleaning... they gave me an hour or two. So they're going to clean and all that. But then whatever this gum thing is here... I'm just wondering if, instead of having to always wear this retainer several hours a day or whatever... if there's a way he can... the gap is so small now, and just put a veneer thing or... I don't know, just be done with it. Anyway, I'm doing that. I heard back from London. She basically just told me to get in touch again with the creative writing... because I haven't heard back from the new creative writing... who I know, but I haven't heard back. [0:01:58] I don't know if I... they just didn't get the e-mail or what. So I just wrote...

THERAPIST: The new meaning the new chair or administrative person? Chair.

CLIENT: Yeah, who I know. I mean, I know him personally. And he's a nice guy, so I don't... it's not a big deal. But maybe he just didn't get my e-mail or something. But I wrote to this woman who I really liked while I was there. She's one of the heads of the department as well. So I wrote to her. But she was really nice. She's like, write to Walter (sp?) again. And... but she's like, in the meantime, yeah, I mean, I'd be happy to hear, what is your dissertation about and blah blah blah. But I kind of don't know what it's about. So I think I need to seriously figure this shit out. I'm really bad at... I've not been able to figure out... you would think a guy that loves literature and creative writing... I can't figure out what my dissertation is about.

THERAPIST: What's the format? (Pause) [0:02:56]

CLIENT: The format is a manuscript but then a whole critical... so it doesn't... so the critical part is not going to be... is not as long as a general just straight PhD, hundreds and hundreds of pages? You have your manuscript, which should be over... for poetry should be over 50 or 60 pages.

THERAPIST: So your manuscript though could be 50 or 60 pages of poetry? You are poetry.

CLIENT: Basically you have a book. If you're a fiction writer you have something, poetry, whatever. So a poetry manuscript is usually 48 to 60 pages. So then... but then you do need a critical component that is somehow related to your process or your thoughts about poetry. And for some reason I just can't whittle that down. I don't know. It's very hard for me. I don't know why. [0:03:55] But... maybe because I just kind of don't care (chuckling). I care, but I'm not... and I'm intimidated? I just don't write scholarly papers well. I don't... footnotes and all... I'm just not... it's [not an innately] (ph)... it just annoys me. And I don't understand it very well. And (pause) I've just gotten away with it for a long time. So I don't know. I have to decide something, because then I feel weird trying to explain to these people, who... you know what I mean? I feel like I'm kind of...

THERAPIST: (Crosstalk)

CLIENT: Yeah, I feel like either a fraud or I'm just kind of saying some general shit that doesn't... (Pause) But anyway it was nice to hear from her. So... (Pause) And I heard back from Boston College, so it's too late for this year. He was like, I'll be happy to meet with you. But he's like, right now is orientation. [0:04:59] So he's like, we could meet in September sometime, which in a way maybe that's good. That gives me time to really see what I could do with the business. Maybe I don't need it, do you know what I mean? I mean, that would be great to not have to go into more debt. So I'm going to think of it as a test period. (Pause)

THERAPIST: That would mean you probably wouldn't then, even if you met with him in September...

CLIENT: I think...

THERAPIST: If you wanted to you'd have to wait until January probably to start.

CLIENT: No, I think they have this weird thing where you start in the summer.

THERAPIST: And this is the following summer.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Okay, so you wouldn't do it this year.

CLIENT: It was... so it would be 2014.

THERAPIST: Right. Okay. Not like, in other words... you originally were thinking you'd start actually right in September.

CLIENT: No, I just... I think I had this idea that maybe they have either... not a rolling thing. But if it's not the fall it can be the spring or whatever, you know what I mean? [0:05:56] Boston College is sometimes like that. But in this case it's not.

THERAPIST: That actually makes some sense. It's not what I would have expected. So every summer they start a new (inaudible at 0:06:06) class.

CLIENT: Exactly, yeah.

THERAPIST: So that gives you some time even beyond summer.

CLIENT: And again, I mean, I don't know. Maybe... it's Boston College. I could tell them, well, is it okay if I take some courses? I mean, it's an online program. Could I enroll for a couple courses and...

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm, and then transfer in if you get (crosstalk).

CLIENT: Yeah, do well, and do my application. So yeah, I don't know. But it's... so it's a test period. I'll be able to see if the business is somehow... I'm like, okay, this is kind of ramping up pretty good. Then I don't need that. (Pause) I don't know. (Pause) Then I talked to my friend Bernard about copywriting? [0:06:55] I have two friends... some of these guys in this bachelor party this weekend, they work in advertising, media stuff. And (pause) I've always thought... there've been times when I've been like, I think I'd be a good... what the fuck's copywriting? Hey, I have a Coffee Coolata, I don't think it's rocket science. It's just, I think it's a little hard to break into, you know what I mean, because every time I've looked at positions... send us a portfolio, send us this, send us... but I don't take it seriously enough to sit down and come up with my own fake portfolio and all that shit. But I don't know, Bernard's going to talk to his people. I don't know. If I could do something like that freelance or contract or... those guys get paid well, and...

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: I don't know. All these things are tricky though, because it's like, then your unemployment is gone. [0:07:56] I mean, as soon as you're making something that they can track obviously... so I just... that's the only thing that's... (Pause) It's a little scary, you know what I mean? If it's not a permanent thing... (Pause) But whatever. You've got to look into different options. (Pause) [0:08:59] [This week's been] (ph) pretty productive, I guess. (Pause) Oh, then another thing... remember I was telling you that time there was a pit bull in my backyard? I guess it happened to my mom, too, recently. Now...

THERAPIST: And unleashed.

CLIENT: Yeah, this... I'm assuming it's the same dog.

THERAPIST: Wow.

CLIENT: I'm assuming it's the same dog. I don't know. I kind of don't know why it's happening... I don't... if it's someone that lives really close by, I don't know why it doesn't happen more often in a way? Why is it happening every few months? I mean, that was two months ago now or whatever it was. But here's the thing, though. I got kind of upset about it? But it felt... when I look back on it, it felt good to not get too upset, you know what I mean? [0:09:57]

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm. Like the time it happened to you. You came in and were sort of feeling (ph)...

CLIENT: Yeah, I was really annoyed by that, yeah.

THERAPIST: You were annoyed... no, but you also said you felt like you didn't overreact either.

CLIENT: Yeah, no. Even in the moment I was very calm oddly enough, whatever. But yeah, just... you know what? First of all... (Pause) I mean, first... my mind does... it's like, Jesus Christ. That's dangerous, and those... and also it's something I've always...

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm. It's illegal (chuckling).

CLIENT: Yeah, illegal, and it's also my own... I have a... I mean, I guess it's not a phobia if I see a pit bull and I'm not freaked out.

THERAPIST: (Laughing) Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: But I had some bad experience... I always have this worst case scenario, I'm just... I just don't like those kinds of dogs. I get nervous around them, whatever. But then part of me was like, well, wait a minute. I mean, if it happened twice, if it is completely insane, it would have already bitten you kind of probably... I mean... you know what I mean? [0:10:59] If it's in your backyard and it has the opportunity to just (chuckling)... then it just kind of would, especially if it is one of those nut job ones. So I was like... so that was the first thing was, okay, well, wait a minute. It wasn't even there with its owner, you know what I mean? So if it really wanted to...

THERAPIST: Maybe (ph) it's just getting out (crosstalk).

CLIENT: Yeah, so if it wanted to there's no one there to control it. It could just... so that made me feel a little bit... not better, but I was like, alright, well, that's two experiences and twice where it didn't come charging, trying to take your head off or something. It could be that it's maybe some... pit bulls are just scary, you know what I mean? So even when they're being friendly (chuckling), they just look scary. They bark, and they... they're dogs., that's... they bark, and they might want to... they're greeting you, or they just want to jump or play or whatever. So that was one. [0:11:54]

Then the second thing was, I just went online. I was like, alright, what can I do to keep dogs...? What do people do to keep dogs out of their yard? It's not rocket science. So I just looked that up, [and I do that] (ph). It's like vinegar, ammonia. (Pause) Worse comes to worst there's a natural kind of... not pepper spray, but it's a spray. But it doesn't... it's just a temporary... it doesn't really damage them. Whatever. So in other words I was like, yeah, that is really annoying. But (pause) it's not like this guy's out to annoy me or my mom or whatever, our house, you know what I mean? (Chuckling) It's obviously going through other people's yards, too, if the guy lives around there somewhere.

THERAPIST: Yeah, it's not personal. But it's still...

CLIENT: It's annoying. Something should be done about it, yeah.

THERAPIST: You could call Animal Control, too, next time you see it (ph).

CLIENT: Yeah, I don't know what they would do if...

THERAPIST: They come get it for a pit bull and read the tag or try to find the owner. [0:12:59] And then the owner could get fined (crosstalk).

CLIENT: I mean, I guess, yeah, how would they know...? I don't know where this person lives. I don't know where they...

THERAPIST: Hopefully it's on the dog's tag.

CLIENT: I guess, yeah. Yeah, no, I'll probably call them just... at least, why not?

THERAPIST: You don't have to, but that's... I mean, that's (crosstalk)...

CLIENT: No, I think I might do it anyway, even for liability, because our tenant has a dog? I would feel really bad if (pause) it bit her dog and I hadn't said anything to Animal Control. Yeah, it's just annoying. I don't know why people do stupid shit. But again the other thing is, I don't get why it's so intermittent. So it's on a leash sometimes, or...?

THERAPIST: Sounds like it's sneaking out of the house (crosstalk).

CLIENT: Yeah, I wonder if it just gets our or something? I don't... yeah.

THERAPIST: And they don't know.

CLIENT: Then I was like, well, I could even buy those fences at Home Depot?

THERAPIST: (Chuckling) It sounds like a lot on you for the owner not taking care of keeping their dog out.

CLIENT: Yeah. I don't know. [0:13:56] I kind of like fences anyway, but...

THERAPIST: Well then, that's different.

CLIENT: Those kind of ornamental... not just chain link, but you can just hammer them into the ground. But yeah, no, I mean, I agree, that's... I'm not going to do that. But yeah, no, it was just like, yeah, that's annoying but...

THERAPIST: It wasn't personal anymore.

CLIENT: Yeah. And I forgot about it. I mean, I just looked shit up, and then I forgot about it, you know what I mean? There was nothing to dwell on. It's like, alright, it's a dog. And also the dog, it doesn't mean... it doesn't know, you know what I mean? I don't like those kinds of dogs, but I'm getting... maybe now because I have a pet, I don't know. But it's a creature. It doesn't fucking know what it... it's not trying to fuck with you. It just doesn't know what it's doing. (Pause) [0:14:58]

THERAPIST: Moving out of your mother and her family's state of persecution...

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Personal persecution constantly.

CLIENT: She was actually okay about it, too. I mean, that's really scary for her. My mom, she likes dogs? But she really needs to know that it's... you know what I mean? That's scary. But yeah, she was like, I just... I quickly went back in the house. She was like... but she didn't go on and on about it? But, I mean, I don't like that. She's an old lady, woman downstairs... I don't know, there's kids in the neighborhood, I don't know. I mean, that's just ridiculous. (Pause) But...

THERAPIST: It's... I mean, I'm struck, it almost sounds sometimes... because (ph) you're talking about this... it's hard to find what is a reasonable level of actually being kind of appropriately paranoid? Do you know what I mean? [0:15:54]

CLIENT: Well, because now... I'm so aware now. I just... I'm so happy that I'm not dwelling on things, letting them get me... freaking ruin my day or my night or whatever. So yeah, it's very... it's a new feeling to be like, oh. I don't think this is dwelling. I mean, I don't... because yeah, it's new. It's a new feeling.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm. Just because it's not personal doesn't mean it's not something important though or potentially (crosstalk).

CLIENT: No, yeah, I agree. That's kind of what I'm saying. It feels like I'm just handling it, you know what I mean? Like, okay, let me go online and see what the hell other people... this happens all the time. What do people do to keep dogs away from their whatever? There's all this awesome shit. There are these little things you can buy. They're like sonic... I don't know how great they work? Seems like they do. I don't know, they give a frequency that dogs don't like. $6, whatever. It's... (Pause) [0:16:57] But yeah, no, there is now a more... I'm just not dwelling. I don't know what it is. I'm not really dwelling so much anymore on things. (Pause) The one bummer thing that happened though... I forgot to tell you this. Julia (sp?), my German... she won't talk to me.

THERAPIST: She has cancer, right?

CLIENT: Yeah, she's totally furious at me. She told me off and stuff all of a sudden on Facebook, I guess because I haven't been keeping tabs closely? I don't know what the fuck happened. But (pause) I was like... I mean, I don't even know if that's the... I'm assuming that's the reason. But I was like, I'm... I've been thinking about you. I just thought maybe you need some (pause) time to... I didn't want to be like, how are you, every day. [0:18:02] I don't know. I didn't know how to... (Pause) So yeah, now I feel odd (ph). But I've apologized profusely. I've been thinking about you. I feel really awful, and... I don't know. But I also don't to... I mean, if she's upset, she's upset. I don't... what can I do? I'm very surprised though that... I mean, I almost feel like saying, well, I mean, obviously an illness is an illness. That's no... it's serious. But it's not like she was keeping tabs on me all the time, you know what I mean? It's like, we're friends, but I don't understand...

THERAPIST: Where is this coming from (crosstalk)?

CLIENT: Yeah, I don't understand. Yeah, she was like, so now I know who my real friends are and stuff like that. What the fuck are you talking about? [0:18:56] Anyway, and now I don't want to get in... the girl's sick. I don't want to... do you know what I mean? I don't want to say any of that. I was like, the best thing to do is just apologize, tell her I'm thinking about her. I'm really sorry for whatever she thinks, because I don't want to have a back and forth. She's already... (Pause)

THERAPIST: It certainly sounds like you matter a lot to her.

CLIENT: I wouldn't have known that.

THERAPIST: Yeah (chuckling)?

CLIENT: I mean, yeah, we chatted every so often. Or she looked at my website or whatever. But a lot of times if I didn't say hi to her I didn't hear from her. So it's like... (chuckling) that's kind of one of the reasons I broke up with her. It's like, that's great that you... I guess I did. [0:19:57] But you've got to let people know, man. You've got to use your words. I mean... (Pause) Oh man. (Pause) Meanwhile, my poor cousin in San Francisco, the sister of the jackass at MSU that stopped talking to everybody, she... I mean, she has MS. She's falling down. She's in really bad shape, really bad. She's kind of like me and my mom. She only has her son? Her husband who was a really great guy passed away, actually passed away when my second cousin was way younger than me. The kid was only 13, 14 or something. And it's all... it's just... (Pause) [0:20:59] I don't know. Because my other cousins were here for just a weekend. My first... two of... one of my first cousins on my dad's side, my... great people. And so I asked, how's Harold (sp?) doing? I was just...

THERAPIST: Here from where?

CLIENT: All my first cousins who are on my dad's side are in San Francisco now, except for one.

THERAPIST: So they came here (crosstalk).

CLIENT: So one of them... so the one I'm talking about with MS is one of my first cousins? That's my uncle's family. That's...

THERAPIST: Your dad's brother's.

CLIENT: Exactly. And then the one who is here is my dad's sister's... one of her... yeah. And these are all... these are the ones where I'm way younger than them? They're all... not way younger, but younger. Yeah, my mom and I were just like... well, I mean, we knew that it wasn't great. But (pause) I don't know. [0:21:55] And really I think... I don't know. It's like I want to do... I feel like, for my dad and my uncle, someone has to do something, you know what I mean? But there's nothing to be done, you know what I mean? But it's an embarrassment. That's a fucking... for our family has such an impeccable reputation because of my uncle, and not just my uncle, because they're just great people. It's just like, what...? That's such a fucking embarrassment. It's such an embarrassment. And I don't even mean embarrassment on a superficial... like, what are the neighbors going to think? I mean a real... a moral failing...

THERAPIST: Wait (ph), what's an embarrassment?

CLIENT: This fucking asshole. The two brothers don't do any... they don't call her. They don't check in. I mean, they don't talk to any of us, including their own sister. [0:22:57] And it's just like, are you kidding me right now? So you're leaving it on your poor nephew? And they don't have a lot of money. They don't... they're middle class, lower middle class people. It's... I don't know. It's beyond words. And she's such a good person. And Melanie (sp?) was telling me, you know Harold. She still... but it's like, Melanie, but why is she...? There are all kinds of services for people. She could have a... she's like, I know. She won't do it. She's always like, I'm fine. It's very my dad's side. (Chuckling) She's always joking around.

But I was like, but Melanie that's... at this level though that's almost like a, fuck it, I don't care. That's... I was like, that's not right for her son either. She was like, I know. [0:23:56] She's like, we do... my aunt, who's 90 years old, takes care of her. That's... (Pause) Which... I mean, I was like, that's... not that it's awesome. But that's why I love my... I mean, [both sides] (ph), look at what my mom's doing. (Chuckling) But on my dad's side they have such a much more... (Pause) They put a humorous spin on things that's so admirable, you know what I mean? My aunt still smokes, she drinks coffee. They just have this zest, you know what I mean, that's so awesome.

But that's ridiculous that that woman has to be... doesn't have to be, I mean. But she offers willingly, without... she wants to take care of her niece. I don't know. My mom and... I don't know. [0:24:56] (Pause) I mean, now I've gotten to the point where, when people ask me, now I don't hide it anymore. They're like, hey, how's your cousin at MSU? I just tell them. I'm like, you know what? I really don't care how he is. And they're, whoa, what...? I'm... he hides behind this position that he has. And it's like, you know what? (Pause) I don't know.

THERAPIST: Disowning his roots (crosstalk) completely.

CLIENT: Well, everybody. But yeah, I mean, your sister, who... I mean, God, her husband died of pancreatic cancer. The guy, he went like that (finger snap). And he was such a sweet guy who loved them, loved all... you know what I mean? I don't understand the... that's some kind of... that's like a mental illness. I don't understand that. My dad and their dad never had one cross word. [0:25:59] When their dad came to the wake, when he walked in there, I'll never forget. He ran to... he's way older than my dad, ran to the casket and picked my dad up, cradled him in his... I mean (pause), this is... there's a lot of love in that family. And it's just like, you're just being a fucking... beyond an asshole. I don't know.

THERAPIST: Just sounds (ph) selfish.

CLIENT: Yeah, it's a very... I don't know what's happened, to both of them. That's the weird thing. Do they talk to each other? Or do they also not talk to each other now? I don't know. But yeah, I don't know. We're helpless. What do you do? I write to my second... her son once every six... I don't know what to do, you know what I mean? I'll just write to him and say, hey, [we can] (ph)... if there's anything I can do... there's nothing I can do. [0:26:59] But... I don't know. (Pause) I don't know. Just it really rubs me the wrong way. You cannot talk to us, but man, that's some really cold stuff to do to somebody. (Pause)

THERAPIST: It's an abandonment.

CLIENT: Yeah, big time. The only... I mean, I was telling my cousin... I was like, well, the only... it's not a consolation at all? But I was like, just know that, I mean, he's got on one. He's got his wife, who I always thought was a really nice person. I don't know what her involvement is or isn't in any of this? But I was like, he's on an island. He's just got his position. But I don't know him to have any tight, real friends, or... (Pause) [0:28:04] Yeah, I don't know. (Pause) In that way my uncle's being amazing, when I look in comparison? The guy's around. He does what he can. (Chuckling) He's got type II diabetes. [0:28:56] I mean, he's doing the best he can. It's not perfect at all, but... (Pause)

With my other lunatic aunt, I'm kind of... I'm done with her. But I can almost... she's definitely... something's going on up here, you know what I mean (chuckling)? It's not like she's like, oh, I... fuck you. I just don't like you, I'm going to cut... and she's out in her professorship at... she's a fucking mess. I mean, she's got issues. It's becoming more and more obvious with each year. But she calls. She... there's something. There's some semblance of still family-ness. (Pause) It's bizarre, absolutely bizarre. (Pause) [0:30:00]

THERAPIST: I wonder if there is some feeling in all of this for you about the family coming apart or abandonments.

CLIENT: Yeah, definitely. I mean, I already feel... my mom's side, just all the shit we went through, the family just... it's as if it changed overnight. A lot of the men were gone, two of them, then my grandfather. My aunt was sick for all those years in such a terrible... it just was awful. Yeah, it... and now, like I said, with my aunt, that Portsmouth faction... (Pause) I had that cousin who... he stopped calling. Now he's around, and it's fine. We don't have an issue. But it's too late now almost, you know what I mean? And he still might (ph) make an effort. [0:30:56] He's here, he still... if I see him at a family thing, everything's fine. But it's like, I'm not going to kiss his ass. The guy didn't talk to me for no reason for two years. I mean, I'm being nice to him. He's got to make effort, but I'm done.

So yeah, there (ph)... but I always thought my dad's side was the (pause), what's the word, consistent, you know what I mean? Never ever... I mean, just always laughter and warmth and not taking things too seriously and... and especially because it's him, I guess? I mean, I did kind of look up to him, and fuck. Not one word when my book came out, tells me not to ever get in touch with him again, which I first... now I realize erroneously... because it just seemed like it was just me and my mom or something, you know what I mean? But then all this... I mean, just it's... the guy's cut out the whole family. [0:31:56] Your 90 year old aunt? I don't know. Maybe some shit happened when he was little, and I don't know. But whatever it was (chuckling), this is a 90 year old woman. I mean, you have no other... your dad's gone, my dad's gone. You have these two old aunts. I mean... (Pause) But I don't know. It's... yeah, it's beyond a disappointment, I think especially because my dad and his dad... even more than the aunts, they really had a special, I mean, just really tight bond, really tight. So (pause) I don't know. (Pause) [0:32:56]

THERAPIST: I'm thinking for some reason about our conversation a while ago, a month or two ago, about the couch. And you had asked... one of the fears that came up would be, what was I going to change with (ph) what I would do or say, or would I talk less in particular? But there's a lot you're talking about right now in your family that... everything changed, and...

CLIENT: Yeah, it's similar. I was thinking about that, too. The thing about the couch, I think, that I don't... one of the things I don't like is, it is going to... it does feel more like a patient thing? So I think then I would miss this part, seeing you. And I look forward to that, so then... you know what I mean? I was thinking about that. I was like, I think that's one of the things I wouldn't like, that I can't have actual eye contact and...

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm. And so what do you lose in the eye contact, do you know? [0:34:00]

CLIENT: What do you lose?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Well, I mean, obviously it's a different feel if you can just look at somebody and... (Pause)

THERAPIST: Of course it is. But I think that can mean different things to people. Eye contact can feel safer. It can feel like...

CLIENT: Well, it's more like a... yeah, there's a feeling of more intimate friendship kind of thing, instead of just a patient doctor thing. (Pause) I don't know.

THERAPIST: It's so interesting, because I actually think there's a way it can get more intimate if you're actually a patient, where you get to go, instead of social banter. Do you know what I mean?

CLIENT: Yeah, the feelings, the things you talk about get more intimate. Yeah, I guess I'm just talking about the actual interaction of it. Yeah, I don't know. [0:35:01] Or it could be that it's not a big deal at all. I'm just... it's just another thing that... excuse that I find to not do it. But... (Pause)

THERAPIST: Losing the fantasy that you're not a patient when you're sitting up (chuckling).

CLIENT: No, I mean, I... (chuckling) clearly I know I'm a patient. But yeah, it's like (pause), I can do all the patient things, but I don't think about it while I'm here, you know what I'm saying? I'm obviously working hard, but I don't think about that dynamic. I think about it when I'm not here. Like, oh, what Claire (sp?) said made a lot of sense, and she's probably right. I process it. But when I'm in here I don't... (Pause) [0:36:00]

THERAPIST: So much more for us to know about that. (Chuckling) And the bell's ringing. So tomorrow.

CLIENT: (Chuckling) Thanks, Claire. See you tomorrow.

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