TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: (sigh) So. Um. So I was at an Assyrian picnic thing yesterday that they do over the summer. And I noticed that, like the past week, I saw Dave on Tuesday and it happened a little bit there too. But on the one hand I have gotten so much better about not caring about finding someone to be in a relationship with or whatever. But on the other hand it is part of the not caring has been just being sad about it and not dwelling on finding someone but just accepting the fact that it makes me sad (laughs) or something like that. [00:01:00]

But anyway, so at the thing last night it was like, you know, I mean because I partly do want it. It would be cool if I met a cool Assyrian chick or whatever. You know, I had one eye open. I was kind of like, you know. There usually is no one. But there was one chick, whatever, and I didn't take it so seriously or whatever. And I very slyly found out who it was and whatever, blah, blah, blah.

But even that, I was like I don't know why. I think things like that are kind of depressing me more than Not in the way they used to where I get really dark and whatever.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: It is just in a sad way. Do you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: Where I feel like I am at a weird age where, she is probably like 24 or something. Do you know what I mean? That is just too. I am just at a weird place now. Do you know what I mean? It is hard to It is just not easy. You know? [00:02:06]

THERAPIST: Hard to? [That sounded like something you didn't finish.] (ph)

CLIENT: I mean a lot of them are just young. And that is too young now. You know? I mean even late 20's is too young. I mean it depends on the person. But generally, you know. Yeah, it is just much more difficult.

THERAPIST: So that makes you sad?

CLIENT: Yeah. I mean it feels like, it is like I said, it is like I am not, it doesn't make me go to a dark place the way it used to.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: But, yeah, it is like, pfff, this is the reality now. You know? It just is what it is. It is not the end of the world.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: But it is, you know. (pause) Yeah, because when I was with Dave I felt, yeah, I felt a little (pause) He started talking to these two chicks. I mean I was also kind of annoyed just because he brings his dog everywhere now. And I love his dog but it is almost like that is his security blanket in a way. [00:03:16]

I mean it is also obviously very smart. I mean the clich�s is true about if you bring dog somewhere and everybody wants to talk to you including attractive women. But I was like, "God, here we go." You know, it is like so when I hang out with him now I feel like Do you know what I mean?

Like he pays so much attention to the fucking dog (laughs) and I am like, "Are we going to have a real conversation or?" I mean I love Sparky but, you know. Anyway. But even there I was kind of like, I don't know. I am just not I don't know what is going on. I almost don't feel the I want to make effort.

So when he was talking to these two girls I kind of wanted to but I didn't. Do you know what I mean? I was like, "I don't know." I am just not (pause) I don't know. And we were talking about it. He seems to be totally okay with not caring. I remember I think I was telling you. I don't know if that is really true or not. But, yeah, I don't think I am that okay yet. [00:04:17]

I mean I am okay, but I am not I think maybe because I have this added cultural, it is more, it feels more torturous to me in a way. I mean because he is not even dating, he's not doing, you know. I mean I am doing fine in terms of just if I want to. But I don't know if just need to somehow confront more of this Assyrian thing and just maybe that would free my mind or my ability to just take a leap and commit more with someone who is not Assyrian. I don't know. I don't know.

Because then the other sad thing that happens is with Assyrian chicks I am always shooting low because I have to. Right? There is just not a pool of people to choose from. So the ones who are attractive or whatever they still, you know, if they were not Assyrian they wouldn't be my top, you know, whatever. [00:05:18]

So that is also kind of sad. It is like, "Wait, so what am I doing?" So I don't know. I don't know. I mean I know guys do that. They are like, "I am going to marry an Assyrian girl." And that is what they do. They pick one that they are attracted to enough and who they like enough, whatever the hell they decide. And then they just go for it. You know? I don't know if I can do that. (pause)

Not to mention that I am not even usually their type anyway. You know, I'm not. There is that too. You know? I am just not. For whatever reason, whatever luck or skills or charm I have with non-Assyrian (laughs) women I don't have with Or I have initially maybe but they don't really want to, you know. It never goes anywhere. I don't know. (pause) [00:06:26]

THERAPIST: You have feelings about being excluded.

CLIENT: What's that?

THERAPIST: Feelings about being excluded come up.

CLIENT: Well, yeah. That is what I am saying. It has always been like an outsider. When I am with non-Assyrians everything is great except this one kind of important I don't show it. Do you know what I mean? So in a way they know, but they don't know. You know, like my friends are, if I am Like yesterday, Jeremy's, my Assyrian friend's girlfriend is not Assyrian. And when I saw people and I was talking she was just kind of like, "Whoa! Like you really speak Assyrian." You know? It is like, "Yeah, I do." It is just like I am not like a -

Like Jeremy doesn't really His Assyrian is more like cute. He knows some phrases and words and he tries to say some things and you know. Do you know what I mean? So there is that too. Like when I am hanging out, when I do have a girlfriend or something, they love it. They love that I am this or that but I don't think they get how deep that is. You know? [00:07:26]

It is not just like, "Oh yeah. I am proud of my heritage." You know. Do you know what I mean? So then that makes me feel kind of, it is a pretty big chasm that I don't think they get. You know? And then with Assyrian chicks they don't really get this other huge I mean my life is mostly lived as a very American guy. You know?

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: And they don't get that as much because they are so fucking enmeshed in Assyrian things. You know, they are raised a certain way. They are not They think they are kind of worldly but they are not. You know? And really they are, at the end of the day, way more conventional.

THERAPIST: You are sort of saying that the culture they value (cross talking at 00:08:14).

CLIENT: Yeah. They might be a little artsy, they might be this or that. But, yeah, at the end of the day they want stability, they want, yeah. They are not, yeah. I mean not that I am so unstable but I think, I mean obviously I have a vibe of not being Mr. Business Guy or something. Do you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: So even though, I mean I, you know. (pause) Yeah. (pause)

THERAPIST: What just stopped you?

CLIENT: What?

THERAPIST: What just stopped you?

CLIENT: I just saw the Jacques Lacan book.

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: And I always wanted to know more about that guy but it is difficult. No, I was thinking about it. Yeah, I mean the more I have thought about it, I mean I am actually pretty stable. (laughs) I mean I have got a fucking home, I have got Do you know what I mean? Like it is not, but I am not that guy. Do you know what I mean? I am not going to throw on the khaki pants and the polo shirt. Do you know what I mean? Not that they all want that but they want that more than, you know. So. (pause) [00:09:36]

Not to mention, I mean it is funny because it was actually really cute the way it worked out. First, it was actually kind of fun. This time I didn't, because I wasn't dwelling and I kind of didn't care. I mean I guess I really didn't care. But I invited my Mom over because I had made my Mom go to this thing.

I was like, "Mom, all your friends are going to be there. They all want you to go all the time." They do it every Thursday for July and August. It is really nice. You know? It is home cooking basically. And I don't go to a lot So it is kind of nice to see people I don't normally see and whatever. You know, it is community.

So I was like, "You are going. I am going to go with Jeremy. So I want you to go." So she was there with a big group of friends or whatever. It is the Assyrian health corps. So it is a big, you know, all these ladies. They are lovely people. You know? So I was like, "You know what? I am going to do what I have never done before but now I am going to start doing." I just called my Mom over. (laughs) I said, "Mom, who is that girl?" You know, they love that shit. [00:10:31]

THERAPIST: (laughs)

CLIENT: So she immediately got, you know, they couldn't quite figure it out. So then I asked my good friend who I went fishing with, his nephew, he is like 20 or something, and because he went over to that table and was talking to them. So I invited him. So I was like, "Get over here." You know, so we were talking and he is a really good kid anyway so I kind of like You know,

I feel like I am the way my Dad was to maybe these friends of mine that tell me about my Dad. Do you know what I am saying?

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: So I was like, you know. So I was like, "Are you dating that girl," whatever. So he was like, "No, no, no. It is like a family friend. She is older." And I was like, "How old is she?" Whatever. So it was kind of fun. It was kind of cute. Like I don't do shit like that. Who does that? But it is such a community kind of thing. You know?

It is like you are at a big family function or something, you know. And you can't go to a picnic and you can't just walk up to someone's table and And there was no one I knew at the table, otherwise I would have. But I didn't know anybody there. So anyway. But, yeah, I was like, "Oh yeah, dude, I will talk to her if you want," whatever. He was like, "She is kind of stuck up." But, you know, whatever. [00:11:40]

So in that way it is good. I mean I am not For me it is the bigger question. It is not so much about that girl.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah, but in the past it would be that moment would be catastrophized. Do you know what I mean? It is not about that anymore. It is just a bigger question of what these things represent. Because now what am I supposed And he was so nice. Like as I came in, "Here is your Facebook thing."

THERAPIST: (laughs)

THERAPIST: You know, it was like, "I will put in a word for you if you want or whatever." I mean, what am I going to do, send this girl a random note on Facebook? I mean I guess I could but I don't know. (pause) All these things are just kind of, it is silly in a way when you are part of a community.

Oh the other thing is of course we have a couple of mutual Facebook friends. It is a small community, people talk. I mean chicks, they talk whether they are Assyrian or not. But especially in that, you know, everyone is kind of. So there is that as well. "Do you know this Arto (sp) guy?" or whatever. You know? They do that shit. You know? So I don't know. [00:12:57]

It is almost embarrassing in a way because my track record is so bad. Do you know what I mean? Like it is the exact opposite. You know? So some of them are going to be like, "Oh yeah. He asked me out." You know? And who knows what they say. Like I don't know why they didn't go out with me. So who knows what? I don't know.

"He's an artist who doesn't have money." I don't know what the problem is but Because I noticed that two of our mutual friends are girls I had asked out.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And of course it figures all the pretty ones are, the few pretty ones that I would even bother asking out, are all friends with each other. You know? So it is like, I don't know. It is just very high school. It's very high school. It is pretty lame. Because what ends up happening is, it is not a big deal, but I do feel kind of like, "Who are you to not go out with." (laughs) [00:13:51]

They are just weird. Do you know what I mean? That is one thing that kind of rubs me the wrong way. It is like I have dated a lot of really nice, wonderful, pretty I mean, you are some girl who lives at home with a real estate license and like what is it? I don't know. I don't know if they are I don't know what it is but it does rub me the wrong way a little. (pause) (sigh) I don't know. (pause)

I think it is just, you know, I am just realizing this could be it. Not "it" like it is over. But I am just realizing, yeah, this is what it is now and I could maybe not be married. Or forget married, I could not maybe have a really serious I don't know. Because I can't seem to go that extra step with non-Assyrian, right? You know? I haven't been able to. Why? I am sure there are other reasons (laughs), not just that. [00:15:14]

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: But I am realizing that that is kind of a big deal. (pause)

THERAPIST: For you.

CLIENT: Yeah. For me. Like Jeremy. I was thinking about Jeremy yesterday. Right? Here he is with his non-Assyrian girlfriend and Oh, that is what it was. He is telling me about how they went to Ohio to her family. I have never been able to envision myself doing stuff like that. Isn't that weird? I can't do it.

THERAPIST: Hm. Like incorporating yourself into a non-Assyrian woman's family?

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. Like even around here. Remember there was that girl Megan I was dating for a while with autistic? Right? I met her family once, (inaudible at 00:15:53) in Newberry Port or something. There was just something. It doesn't seem right. Do you know what I mean? And that is not good. I mean I am from here. I can't not That is pretty limiting if that is the way it is going to be.

Even with Samantha, like totally obviously You know, when we went to her house in Charleston her parents weren't home. But just looking at the photos on the fridge and just the place, I was like, "Where the fuck are we? Charleston?" Her Dad is like kind of a big shot in the city. I don't know. There was something, I can't explain it. I met her brother. Cool guy. Very nice guy. But there was something (pause) You know?

THERAPIST: [There is still something that did not feel right.] (ph)

CLIENT: Yeah, it doesn't feel right. I think it is just I would like to think. Maybe I am realizing that maybe I am just smart enough that that part of me is very awake. And it is like, "This is great. But there is going to come a time when you are going to be really bummed that you can't be in this bar having a great time and you want to talk Assyrian." I mean, to me it is I don't think people get how natural Do you know what I mean? [00:17:17]

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: When I am with my Assyrian friends, by the way, I speak more Assyrian than they do a lot of times. Like when they start speaking English I will purposefully keep speaking just to let them know like, "Hey, man, I am totally comfortable. I want to speak our," you know. Not that they don't think I am comfortable. But do you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: I just want to speak Assyrian. You know? (pause) Or I will be thinking, "So Samantha is going to come to my house and hang out with Ginny?" I don't see it kind of. Do you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: I don't see it. My Mom is a lovely She was so nice to Jeremy's girlfriend. I mean she is such a they were like, "Your Mom is so beautiful and such a nice person." You know? And she was. She is lovely. You know? But really if that was my girlfriend there is nothing to talk about. There is no, I don't know.

THERAPIST: It feels like these are just separate worlds.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: That do not (cross talking at 00:18:21)

CLIENT: There is not much overlap. Yeah. They can be friendly.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Of course they can totally be friendly. Do you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: But not being sewn together.

CLIENT: No. They don't organically go together. I don't know if that is just in my mind. I don't know if it is part of me that is looking out being more like, "No, I'm not." Like it is kind of old school in a way. It is like, "Well I am not just getting married." You know, there is that saying, right? You are not just marrying the girl you are marrying her family.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: Do you know what I mean? There is some truth to that. I mean I, you know. (pause)

THERAPIST: So what would it mean marrying someone whose family was in Ohio and you have to go visit them?

CLIENT: I don't know if that would work.

THERAPIST: Because?

CLIENT: Who the fuck wants to go to I don't want to go to Evansville, Ohio. It is kind of just I don't feel that. There is nothing in that for me. [00:19:23]

THERAPIST: Even if you are in love with her and then that is her family?

CLIENT: This is what I am trying to say. Look at the past. I was in love. Even Meredith, right? In my mind it was, "What is going on here?" Her Mom is a former beauty queen. They were homeless for a while. She is with some weird guy now. I was like, "What is that world?" That is not for me. I can't figure that It is not that I want to be enmeshed in some fucking crazy Assyrian family. I mean I like my space and my peace and quiet.

I am just saying that I don't know how to explain it. It is like doses. Do you know what I mean? It is like going to this fucking picnic. I don't want to be doing that all the time. I don't want to volunteer. I don't want to be enmeshed in the whole thing. But when I am there I like that dose. Like it feels really good.

You know, I like seeing these people talk in Assyrian. You know, it just feels like home to me. You know? Seeing the kids. You know I feel like, well, that is so cool. Like look at this couple. Look how cute their kids are. They speak Assyrian. They speak English. You know? There is something sweet about that. I like that. You know, something very rooted or very grounded. You know? I don't know. [00:20:47]

Whereas all my You know, all these people they don't know who they are. They don't know if they "I don't know, I am English or something and Scottish. I don't fucking know." What the fuck is that? I don't know. I don't relate to that kind of, you know. I relate to it on a "let's date." (laughs) And we have a million things in common but the one thing we don't have in common is kind of a big deal. You know?

So, yeah, I think the sadness now is I am just realizing, "Well, but it is also not perfect if " Do you know what I mean? When I have met Assyrian chicks I either have to kind of settle on their appearance or things we have in common or whatever. Or then we have different. Yeah, we do relate on all these things but then we don't relate on I don't know. It is a bummer. It really is.

I almost wish I had been raised more conventional. Do you know what I mean? [00:21:51]

So I would just marry some Assyrian chick and I would be an engineer and whatever. Or that I would be more like Jeremy and some of my Assyrian American friends where that guy doesn't think twice. They don't, you know. Whatever works. I mean whoever they love they love and that is that. You know? And their parents don't care. You know, their parents don't raise them to be (long pause)

THERAPIST: There is certainly the conscious cultural piece. There may also be something unconscious around exclusion and being known. What it means to take in a whole person including her family.

CLIENT: Mm hm.

THERAPIST: You know, it is sort of like a whole package. The fact that you are even saying even in Assyrian culture you want doses. Like doses of a person, doses of a culture that you want (cross talking at 00:22:53).

CLIENT: Well my idea has always been that Well, no, that is just a protective thing because what I see in my family and other families. Families don't get along often that well. So I find that the best way to deal with that without cutting people off is just, you know, everyone should have their space.

I have always envisioned that whoever I am with it is like a team. Do you know what I mean? And we love our families and all that but it is not overdoing it. You know? I don't want to go to Evansville all the time.

THERAPIST: But what if it was twice a year? Can you picture that?

CLIENT: I kind of can't. No.

THERAPIST: Those two doses a year.

CLIENT: I kind of can't. No.

THERAPIST: Because? What would it feel like?

CLIENT: Because it doesn't speak to me. I don't feel comfortable.

THERAPIST: What do you mean by that?

CLIENT: I don't feel any connection. I don't feel any You know? (pause) I don't know. I am sure some of that is it is me. It is not Do you know what I mean? Yeah, maybe there is way I'm not (pause) I am not just being open. Do you know what I mean. I am just not because I am so used to these black and white kind of worlds that bubbles. [00:24:22]

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And I just have trouble. I can't seem to I get very self-aware and I get very like, "What?" Everything seems like a It is jarring almost. You know? I am like, "What is this furniture? What is this" (laughs) You know? Like their habits, the way they are. Everything is just alien, you know, to me. (pause)

When I went with Michelle (sp) to Newfoundland, right? To her family. I was like, I did it. You know, it was fine. But it just felt weird. I was like, "Wow, could this be? Imagine the rest of my life these are the people." Do you know what I am saying?

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: Maybe that is the other thing too. One day my family might not, my Mom is not going to be around. You know? So it could be that her family, like maybe it is a desire I have to be like, "You know, I want to continue what I feel with my family." I want to feel that with, you know. I don't have to see them all the time but I want to feel like, oh, I can go and [00:25:33]

THERAPIST: Like it is home.

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah. Her Mom makes similar food or we can talk in Assyrian and have a, you know, I can feel that sense of continuity or something. You know?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I never thought about that. I just thought of that now actually. Maybe that is part of what it is that I just feel like one day that could be Like if I do have a kid, right? I'm older, my Mom's older. God forbid if she wasn't around. So then what does that mean? The kid then really is going to be raised my friend Jeremy. He will be kind of proud that he is half Assyrian or whatever. He might be very proud, whatever.

But that is not the same thing. You know? It is just not. There is no way for that kid, unless it is so enforced to speak Assyrian. You know? Assyrian parents have trouble getting their kids to speak Assyrian. Do you know what I mean? So I don't know if I want that. You know? I don't know. It is tough. It is a really tough thing. (pause) [00:26:42]

THERAPIST: I mean I think that also begs the question, I say this without knowing if the answer is "yes" or "no." You know, it could be a very minor part of it. But also to what degree are you looking for that like sort of your Mom again, the Mom you didn't have? You know? And does that Evansville family just feel so foreign to what it is that you are missing inside that it just doesn't fit the mold?

CLIENT: Hm. It is possible. Although usually with non-Assyrians their moms are usually way cooler. You know? They are super nice, they are super, you know. So I don't know. Oddly enough, you know, I just realized this. With Julia's (sp) Mom and Dad I felt more comfortable.

THERAPIST: You told me about her.

CLIENT: Yeah. I mean I think there is maybe something because they are so grounded. They are Germans. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, that is different than Assyrians but there is something about, like they are German. They have a sense of an identity. [00:27:56]

THERAPIST: European even.

CLIENT: Yeah. They have a sense of an identity.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: It is not just some hodgepodge like, "Ah, you know, whatever." They understand, they have a perspective on the world. They understand something about history and tradition. I don't know. I don't know what it is but I felt comfortable with them. We went to her sister's house near Cologne. I felt comfortable. You know?

It was different but it was different in a really good way. I was like, "Wow, this is cool." You know? Like they are so, they are warm but everything is so cool and European. Like everything is. But, yeah, I didn't feel I could have felt weird there. It's fucking Brubeck (ph). It is way up near the Baltic Sea. It was the dead of winter and it was a really bad winter. That is the recipe for anxiety attacks. (laughs) But I didn't feel that way. I didn't feel that way.

THERAPIST: So that is interesting.

CLIENT: Yeah. I didn't feel that way. There is something about people that have a sense of -

THERAPIST: Like just even solid cultural identity.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: That is important to you. [00:29:03]

CLIENT: Like the more, I don't want to say homogeneous, but just, yeah, something that is Whereas here, yeah, I guess I just feel like everyone is floating. It is just like this hodgepodge of, I don't know what it is. And if you are not really from that, some people I think are fine with that. I don't seem to be fine. It doesn't work for me somehow.

THERAPIST: So maybe even just the commonality of where you come from really mattering.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: That that is a relation that even if she is German -

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: that identify is really important to her family.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

THERAPIST: That you can relate on that level.

CLIENT: Exactly.

THERAPIST: Even if it is not Assyrian.

CLIENT: Exactly. Yeah. Because we both understand something about cultural codes and, you know.

THERAPIST: Yes.

CLIENT: And I don't have to explain too much. They know all about the genocide.

THERAPIST: Yep. Yep.

CLIENT: They know where Assyria is, for Christ's sake.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: They know that they are Christian. I mean some of this shit that people And they don't mean it in a bad way. They just don't know. It is not their fault. But really smart women will be like, "I am really sorry but what is that?" Like [they are wondering,] (ph) you know? So it is like, "Oooh. Alright." It is a very old, ancient history to try to sum up at a bar. Do you know what I mean? [00:30:20]

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And it would be different if, again, I was like Jeremy. You know? And that is not in a denigrating way. I am not saying that like he But to me there is something really personal about it. So it is hard to just have a beer and be like, "Yeah, you know, two million people wiped out and, [you know.] (ph)"

That is, you know, to me it is a very deep thing that I don't share that much or it is not on my sleeve because I don't need to. But (pause)

THERAPIST: I wonder if this has anything to do with our break next week that is coming up. Being worlds apart.

CLIENT: I don't think so.

THERAPIST: No?

CLIENT: I mean I don't know. I haven't thought about it. (pause) [00:31:45]

THERAPIST: Sometimes breaks I think can just be a reminder of what is without this even. You know, without having this therapy relationship. Where are you? Who is in your life? What you want in your life gets clearer.

CLIENT: Really?

THERAPIST: Mm.

CLIENT: I mean it is possible. I didn't think about it.

THERAPIST: It may not be. I am just I just have in mind that sequence.

CLIENT: Mm. (pause) I don't know. (pause) I think the exclusion thing though I think you are right on. That is totally Because remember I was saying to, some of these Assyrian, I mean, then they marry non-Assyrians. So it is like, "Wow. I mean really?" That is almost a And I don't mean that because you should be marrying an Assyrian. [00:32:53]

But it is kind of like you claim to be, not claim, you are even more than me. These chicks are involved in shit. So it is like, let me get this straight. You met a dude that can give you all that whatever the excitement is or whatever it is you are looking for with a non-Assyrian but who is totally I mean I am not trying to build myself up but it just seems kind of like you would explore that maybe. I don't know.

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: I don't know. It is just it is weird to me. It is very strange. I think you could do a whole Maybe that is what I will do the master's on. I have always Who was it? I think it was one of the great Assyrian writers (laughs) said something about, they asked him why he only dated.

Yeah, he dated movie stars and all this shit. And they asked him, "Yeah, have you ever dated an Assyrian." And he said, "I can't because I feel like I am dating my cousin." You know? And I have always wondered if there is something going on in these kind of traumatized little communities where, you know, these broads are marrying like [00:34:06]

This one chick who I kind of, you know, tried to pursue who initially had a thing for me, she married another dude. Who just used her for his, you know, then left her. And now she is married to another dude. I mean it is so To me that is a study waiting to happen. It is like, "Really?" I mean, come on.

Good guy. No issue. But there is something going on there. Like both times you picked, not even European, I mean just completely people that had nothing -

THERAPIST: As far away as possible.

CLIENT: As far away as possible. You know? This other chick married and Italian dude whose whole family is in Italy. There is nobody here. It is like I don't even understand. I mean I even asked her. I was like, "I don't get how You are tight with people here. You are involved in the community. You love your family. Everybody is here."

Don't you think one day that dude is going to be like, "Look, my Mom "Times are pretty tight too. Do you know what I mean? What's? I don't know. Like I just don't know what goes on in their minds where they just, I don't know. I mean, yeah, I date non-Assyrians but I don't want to marry them. You know? Something stops me from [00:35:25]

It could be totally different things going on. And obviously I have my own psychological issues but I kind of don't get it. That is one things that is a bit of a mystery to me. (pause)

THERAPIST: Maybe an unconscious perpetuation of the genocide.

CLIENT: Yeah, like something. Like for them Assyrian dudes are just too much like their brothers or their fathers. I don't know what it is. They are not, I don't know. Or it is the ones who they know that they are pretty. They know that they are in a small, it is a small community. So the ones who are particularly attractive or whatever, they fucking know that they -

That girl yesterday didn't make eye contact once with me. Not even just in like, "Hey, I am walking by your table. There is a person." I mean they are very, you know, they know when they are. So I wonder if it something about like I deserve something more than just some Assyrian. Do you know what I mean? [00:36:29]

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: It is like they need to be validated by non-Assyrians.

THERAPIST: Like you.

CLIENT: Well, like me but I know that.

THERAPIST: That is what I am saying.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah.

THERAPIST: That you have had that too.

CLIENT: Yes, I have had that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But at least I have tried to (laughs) nip in the bud. I am aware of it. I, you know.

THERAPIST: I mean, that is what the culture says, that non-Assyrians are better.

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah.

THERAPIST: They have more of You know, we are the outsiders they are the insiders.

CLIENT: Right, right. You haven't really made it until you are embraced by very successful non-Assyrians.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: You know? Yeah. (pause)

THERAPIST: It is funny because I said "exclusion" and the thing that stood out to me in all of what you are saying is this [hidden little part of the whole unfolding] (ph) story is that with the dog and your friend this feeling of like, "Wait. Is he going to talk to me or, you know, play with the dog." Like even there there is some feeling of exclusion coming up. I know that has nothing to do with (inaudible at 00:37:44).

CLIENT: Oh. Yeah, yeah. Well that is a general thing, right, in my life.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: That is a general theme anyway.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It just gets heightened when it comes to this particular issue, yeah.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah. (pause) But, yeah, I mean that is a general I mean with work, right? Being excluded from this weird whatever the fuck I was in. Yeah. I saw Matthew, by the way, yesterday. And he is completely iced out now too. They don't talk to him.

THERAPIST: Hm. Wow.

CLIENT: I kind of knew that was going to happen.

THERAPIST: Yeah, you said that was going to happen.

CLIENT: But I didn't think it was going to be so abrupt. You know? Unbelievable. It is just really amazing. Really, really. I have never been so happy to not be I am broke, yeah. I am stressed, whatever. But you know what? My days are so I feel so much better. I feel so much better. (pause) I mean, yeah. They are really, really shitty, selfish people. Matthew is such a sweet guy. I mean it is unbelievable. [00:39:01]

But yeah, like there is all this like You know, I feel excluded from my own family a lot of times. You know? Just, you know. Maybe that was the thing with Julia's (sp) family too. I felt very, immediately very welcome. I felt very, you know? There is something about them. Yeah, I don't know. (pause)

THERAPIST: I know you will scoff at this but just something to think about is that vacations can sometimes stir those feelings too.

CLIENT: Of what?

THERAPIST: Exclusion.

CLIENT: Yeah. Maybe on some level I guess. I don't feel that way but I mean I always do miss But that is kind of a bummer to not come but I think, I have said this before I think too, I think in a way it also feels good though. I feel like, "Oh. It is okay." Like, you know, in the past I would be more because it is like such a security blanket. You know? [00:40:21]

But now it is like, "Wow," it is kind of cool that I can, that we can, that that can happen. It is really not, you know, it is a good feeling. You know? So then I can just miss it as just a part of things I do in my life not as like Do you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: You are scared of needing it too much?

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah. Or like using it like a crutch or something like that. There is nothing wrong with that but it feels like you are progressing when you can be like, "Oh, it is alright." You know? Yeah, of course I would miss it and I would want to be here but (pause)

THERAPIST: Yeah, you are in a healthy enough place that it doesn't affect your functioning in any way.

CLIENT: Right. Right. To me that is a big (laughs) deal.

THERAPIST: Yeah. It is huge.

CLIENT: I savor now all the time. And I am like, "Wow, look at me." I am in a weird situation. Not weird. I am in a I am doing things. I am not And always will. Do you know what I mean? Like I am not My temperament or whatever. My mood or whatever is at a very even keel. That is awesome. I will take that. [00:40:41]

THERAPIST: [So I can understand how it would] (ph) be scary to imagine needing this more or rocking that boat in some way, like getting on the couch.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. There is some of that.

THERAPIST: Everything is okay right now.

CLIENT: Yeah. I just want to coast for a while. Yeah. It just feels good, you know, to just -

THERAPIST: I mean I think that is when people can really start to do another kind of work is when you keep one foot in the reality of "I am fine."

CLIENT: Mm hm.

THERAPIST: And, "I have my life and I am functioning." That is actually happening. That just becomes a given more. And you can start to open up what feelings, like the subtle feelings. Subtle.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: They don't affect functioning.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: But they are the feelings like exclusion.

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah.

THERAPIST: Like release. (ph)

CLIENT: That is what I am saying. They are bigger -

THERAPIST: [I'm going to get rid of you.] (ph) Whatever the feeling. The fantasies. They can be subtle or things actually do have to do with earlier relationships, being excluded. [00:42:48]

CLIENT: Mm hm.

THERAPIST: Like your mother's hovering all the time and yet she also doesn't see you or really ever get to have you on the inside of her experience and the inside of your psychic experience much at all. So there is this constant feeling of exclusion even in your own relationship with your mother.

CLIENT: Mm hm.

THERAPIST: That I would imagine would come up here if we were getting anywhere.

CLIENT: Mm hm.

THERAPIST: Subtly and not loud feelings but that it has become useful, those feelings over time.

CLIENT: Yeah. No, I mean there is no question. There is no, I mean, it is like not even, it is night and day, that I can tell. Like the stuff that happens here now is pfff. I mean it is world of difference.

THERAPIST: Mm hm. (giggles)

CLIENT: And I can tell it is the real work.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And I don't mean to say real work but it is the deeper work. It doesn't always feel that way but I know it is because I know how I feel or what the thoughts that are just so different now. [00:43:51]

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: You know? (pause)

THERAPIST: So we will be [together] (ph) in couple of weeks. Wednesday?

CLIENT: Two Wednesdays from now.

THERAPIST: Two Wednesdays, yes.

CLIENT: Yeah. Awesome.

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:44:06]

CLIENT: Have a good week.

THERAPIST: There you are. Yeah. You too.

CLIENT: Alright. Thank you. See you later.

END TRANSCRIPT