Client "AP", Session 118: September 04, 2013: Client discusses the stress and anxiety he feels about starting his own business without the capital he needs. trial

in Psychoanalytic Psychotherapy Collection by Dr. Abigail McNally; presented by Abigail McNally, fl. 2012 (Alexandria, VA: Alexander Street, 2014, originally published 2014), 1 page(s)

TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:


BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: This is August.

CLIENT: Oh, thank you.

THERAPIST: [Doing dates] (ph). So I don't know what that's for, but [the last month] (ph), and then this week...

CLIENT: I'm behind, yeah. And then this week, yeah.

THERAPIST: It should be $120 by the end of this week.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 0:00:14)

CLIENT: How's it going?

THERAPIST: Good. (Pause)

CLIENT: Man, things are crazy. I've been a total high-anxiety stress case. And my hip hurts now, I don't know why. So I don't know. I guess I'm dropping off that lease now, after I leave here?

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: I don't know, dude. I'm freaking out. I'm freaking out. I don't' know what... (Pause)

THERAPIST: Freaking out about...?

CLIENT: I'm scared. I mean, I'm scared, man. [0:00:57] It's $350 a month.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm. I know it seems like a silly question to ask, you're freaking out about what? But I think I even mean practically speaking what are you worried will happen? What do you...?

CLIENT: I mean, I'm worried that it's going to take me a while to have enough clients to even pay the rent.

THERAPIST: It will.

CLIENT: Yeah. So I'm going to be in the hole for a while.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: I'm also worried... I mean, also it's real? I mean, once I drop that off now it's real, which is exciting. But...

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: Yeah, just I'm nervous. I mean, I think a lot of it's normal. But yeah, and my poor mom. She... it's been... it's just I'm so tired of these kinds of... everything's so dramatic with us sometimes. The poor woman, she sold some of her gold. She has a lot of gold jewelry, whatever. [0:01:57] She sold some of it, just a couple pieces, so I could have three or four months' rent. It's just... that kills me, that we're in that kind of situation. And then now I feel even more... you know what I mean? If it doesn't work out, she's... she makes all these sacrifices. And it's all these dramatic kind of gestures. And...

THERAPIST: Hmm. (Pause) It's a lot of feeling that (inaudible at 0:02:33) to help out.

CLIENT: Yeah. And then part of it too is that, I mean, this is... I'm doing something really... I'm almost in awe of my own (laughing)... I mean, this is ballsy, what I'm doing.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm. [0:02:54]

CLIENT: I mean, I'm just calling myself a life coach, getting a nice office, and setting up shop (laughing). It's kind of insane. But I also kind of feel... I mean, it's also exciting in the sense of, well, in the past this is what I've always not liked, is that I don't feel savvy. Or I don't feel savvy in the moment.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: I look back, and I go, mother fucker. I could have just done this or I could have done... this feels very unsettling, because I think I'm being very savvy. I'm out there making... trying to make things happen and trying to figure out different... and it is a little... it's certainly risky. And it's certainly a big leap. And it's all that shit.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: But I just have to stay focused and have faith that I've done my research and it's a viable business, this is a great area for people that are always trying to improve themselves...

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: And that I can sell myself. I have to have faith that that's really what it is. [0:03:58] I'm building a brand. Come to this nice office, and talk to me. And I went to Brown, and I did these things. And I feel that I have these qualities that I can help you. (Chuckling) You're kind of selling yourself. That's all you're doing, actually. That's ballsy. That's a lot, especially for someone that has been so full of self-doubt (chuckling) for so long. It's kind of insane, so... (Pause) And in a way I don't know why there's not more of a voice saying, you shouldn't do this right now. You should wait and then rent it down the road when you can afford it, or I don't know what.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: But it's not. I just feel like, but that's never going to happen. What's going to happen? Six months from now I'm going to have a lot of money and be able to afford an office? I mean, you either jump in or you don't.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm. [0:04:56]

CLIENT: There's just no way around it. I... so... and (pause) totally unrelated but related, of course Monday or Sunday, I think Monday, I had to call 911 for my grandmother. I was getting ready in the late morning. I hear ambulances, fire trucks, and they don't seem like they're driving by?

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: So I look out the window, and I see they're outside. I go downstairs, and there are all these firemen and EMT guys in my mom's dining room. And I guess my grandmother had fainted. So that was another fucking trip to the ER. (Pause)

THERAPIST: How is she?

CLIENT: I'm sorry?

THERAPIST: How is she?

CLIENT: Oh, she's okay, thanks. My grandmother is... honestly, my mom, my uncle, and me, she had us in stitches laughing in the ER.

THERAPIST: (Chuckling) [0:05:57]

CLIENT: I told my mom on the way home, I was like, Mom, you know what? Thank God... I mean, how cool that you have these... I mean, Grandpa, heart attack, open surgery, whatever. The guy died in his 90s. Her, they did an echocardiogram. Her heart's fine. Everything's fine. They think maybe just dehydration, and...

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: It's like, what? Unbelievable. And then she's joking, she's trying to talk to the nurses. She's like, thank you, honey. She's petting their arms and stuff. And she's like, I go home now. It's like, I want to go home. (Laughing) She's like, okay, so let's... all right. Well, so let's take these things off so we can go have coffee. And we're like, Grandma, you're in the hospital. You're sick in the hospital.

THERAPIST: (Chuckling)

CLIENT: Why? We're like, you fainted. She's like, fainted? I never faint. Why did I faint? Then, I don't know, she said some fucking... she's... the lady that did the intake was this little chubby lady. [0:06:57] So she's talking, and my grandmother doesn't know what she's saying. And she' like, you're going to stay. We have to keep you one night, blah blah blah. My grandmother's like, this is my daughter, my son, my daughter. She's pointing at me, she's like, my daughter's daughter. (Laughing) Doesn't know how... has forgotten how to say grandson. And then she's like... after the lady left, she just laughed, and she goes, what did I say to that lady?

THERAPIST: (Chuckling)

CLIENT: It's just like, what the fuck? This woman is a fucking trip.

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: Oh my God. And the doctors and nurses were like, she's... the woman's like, I'm going to write on your chart, trouble maker (chuckling).

THERAPIST: (Chuckling)

CLIENT: So anyway... but luckily yeah, she's... my uncle stayed with her. Then I guess after several hours it's like... you know what? I'm just going to... they wanted to keep her. But he's like, this might be worse for her to... she's going to rip shit out of her. And he's like, if she's okay, you're saying she's okay, I'd rather just take her home. [0:07:58]

THERAPIST: Yeah. (Pause)

CLIENT: So... but yeah. That stuff... and then one of my best friends, my friend who gave me money for my car, remember, teacher...

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm, yes.

CLIENT: Total high blood pressure. 190 over fucking 130.

THERAPIST: Oh no.

CLIENT: He has it in his family, so he's always known that. But I guess it's been really bad lately. So it's been all this... the health stuff, which doesn't bode well for a time when I'm... I always get even more... at a major transitional time. So that's made me more... I've been feeling more anxious. I've been lightheaded kind of.

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: Definitely trouble focusing. I'm just... I'm not sleeping that great because I just can't. A couple days I've been waking up completely just not feeling good. [0:08:57] My mind... I feel completely overwhelmed, my mind's racing, tightness. So then that makes me think of my dad, blah blah blah. But the good thing, though, is, I started stopping that a little bit.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: I was like, you know what? Wait a minute. I'm not my fucking dad. You know what I mean? My dad had no options, had no education, had a bum arm, didn't know English that great. I mean, I was like, what's the comparison? Stress? Pressure? Well, fucking welcome to living in the 21st century.

THERAPIST: Yes.

CLIENT: I mean... so I was like, look at me. Yeah, oh yeah, it's so stressful to start your own business and have various possibilities in your life and be able to make things happen for yourself and have fluent English and be an American citizen and...

THERAPIST: (Chuckling)

CLIENT: I mean, it's an irrational...

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: It's just that feeling of, this is what must have happened. He must have been so overwhelmed and didn't feel like anything was going to change. [0:09:59]

THERAPIST: Oh, yeah.

CLIENT: And then he just fucking dropped dead. It's a very catastrophized, irrational...

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: And it didn't help that my fucking friend who's one year younger than me has ridiculous high blood pressure, yeah. But luckily I have low blood pressure.

THERAPIST: [Because I was going to say, you don't] (ph).

CLIENT: Yeah, no.

THERAPIST: It's not you.

CLIENT: No, no, it's not. Plus I'm not... I mean, he's a little bit overweight, and he smokes semi-regularly. And he doesn't... I mean, he doesn't take care of himself. I don't take that good care of myself, but, I mean, I'm popping vitamins all day and minerals and things. And I try to eat broccoli. (Laughing) I don't know. I'm trying.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: But (pause) yeah, I don't know. [0:10:58] (Pause) I don't know, man. $350 a month. I don't know. That's normal, right? They're... I'm not getting ripped off or anything?

THERAPIST: It's normal. I mean, the part where I get worried is if you expect that you will be... the first thing you said is, what if I won't be able to break even after a few months? You definitely won't. (Chuckling) So...

CLIENT: (Laughing) No, I know. I'm starting to deal with that, yeah.

THERAPIST: I just say that... if that's your expectation you're going to be really anxious and disappointed and (crosstalk).

CLIENT: Yeah. I mean, some of that unfortunately... that's my mom's...

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: They... to them... they're... she's old. For her business is very black and white. You start, you start having some customers, blah blah blah. She knows it takes time, but...

THERAPIST: Yeah. Most businesses for example go... are in the red the first year (crosstalk) what they invest. [0:11:57]

CLIENT: Yeah, no, I... yeah, absolutely.

THERAPIST: So you will start feeling like you're failing if that's your expectation. And that's supposed to be how it happens when it's going to go well. It's a much longer term (crosstalk).

CLIENT: Right, you've got to be able to stick it out for at least a year and keep plugging away and...

THERAPIST: Yeah, because even if... with life coaching you could get... say you start getting referrals. You could see people for three or four sessions, and then they stop.

CLIENT: Right, that's the other thing, yeah.

THERAPIST: So it's not going to be a constant flow for a while.

CLIENT: That's right. Or even if you had... even if I had three regular clients, right?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: That's great. But that would just barely cover the rent. So you have to... yeah. I mean, that's why I've been applying to other jobs and teaching jobs and...

THERAPIST: Yeah. So that seems like, if you get in mind more that, right, it's going to take some time to break even...

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And that's what... that's the amount of money you'll need saved up or need to get a loan for.

CLIENT: Right. [0:12:57]

THERAPIST: That's in the best case scenario. You need a loan to cover the first year from someone. That's when it's going well.

CLIENT: Yeah, I agree.

THERAPIST: That's not you failing.

CLIENT: That... and that, by the way... I mean, I've sucked it up. And I've talked to my friend, my composer friend. I don't know. We're going to meet.

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: I just told him... I sent him an e-mail. I was like, look, man, this is what's going on. I'm embarrassed to have to ask anybody. I was like, but I have a shitload of equity in the house. I just need a... I don't know, whatever, equity line, $10,000, $20,000, whatever it is.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: I don't need to use all that. I just need to... I was like, it's just... it's really getting...there really are not that many other options. So I just need someone to... obviously it is a big deal to cosign? But I was like, you're not going to ever have to (chuckling)... obviously you're not going to ever have to do anything.

THERAPIST: Hmm. [0:13:57]

CLIENT: And I think you can remove someone after a few years. I remember something like that with my student loans...

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: That after two years or whatever you can be like, look. Everything's going fine. I want to remove this person from the contract or whatever. But no, it's got to get done. I mean... and if you can't do it, someone's got to do it. I mean, I just need someone to... I mean, it's just... this is just ridiculous. (Pause) I mean, I think a lot of what's going on is I'm... I think I'm more anxious that things are going well, you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: I think that's what's happening.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: Or it's a lot of what's happening. It's the first time in my life where I don't think I'm making rash, weird decisions, you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm. [0:15:00] (Pause)

CLIENT: I don't know, something feels very different, so... (Pause)

THERAPIST: You don't feel, for example, five years from now, when you look back on this, there's something (crosstalk).

CLIENT: Yeah, I'm going to be like, what the fuck was I thinking or something? And life coach, who the fuck wants to be...? I don't feel that for some reason.

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: And I feel like, well, let's say a worst-case scenario, it didn't become a big full time operation, right?

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: But still, what's the harm in the...? You know what I mean? I'm utilizing all my skills in a really good way, I think, in a way that, I think, is beneficial to me, is hopefully beneficial to other people. You know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: I don't see it as a... such a random...

THERAPIST: Hmm. [0:15:58]

CLIENT: I think doing real estate was more random...

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: Even though it made sense at the... oh, we have a house, and my uncle's in real estate, and I care about...

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: That was more random, because I kind of don't give a shit.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm, it's not you.

CLIENT: Real estate to me is just security. And of course I'd love to... I want to buy more houses, but not because I'm so into it...

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Not because I want to stay there all day and watch them gut the house and put in the new kitchen and...

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: I don't... that doesn't get me off, you know what I mean? I just want to do that because I... money is a tool to give me time and peace of mind to do what I really would like to do, whereas this is a business that... it's motivating because it is stuff I care about.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Who watches a 30-minute interview at 3:00 in the morning? Amazing fucking interview on YouTube with Mike Wallace.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm (chuckling). Hmm.

CLIENT: Unreal, unreal, that that was ever on ABC (chuckling). [0:16:58]

THERAPIST: I know, Mike Wallace (inaudible at 0:17:00).

CLIENT: Yeah, in which he's saying, yeah, America... 1958 America is the pinnacle of western civilization. He's like, but that's not really saying much. And then he goes on to make these fucking predictions that are beyond true.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: He's like, yeah, but it's really... this is the pinnacle. So, if it keeps going the way it's going, it's just going to implode on itself, yeah. It's unbelievable. But anyway, I mean, who watches...? I mean, obviously I care deeply about how people relate to each other and how they... what kind of lives they live. So... you know what I mean? So I don't feel like this is such a...

THERAPIST: Yeah. [A psychic] (ph) experience.

CLIENT: Yeah. (Pause) [0:17:59] I don't know. (Pause)

THERAPIST: It feels more like finding yourself.

CLIENT: Yeah, and I think that's what... I think that can cause a lot of anxiety.

THERAPIST: It has too, yes. (Pause)

CLIENT: I mean, I'm writing.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: The novel's really kind of coming together. It's fucking weird.

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: Even the poetry, I can feel up here (pause) that that manuscript is coming... I just know when it's time.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: I took all the clothes off my desk chair. I mean, my place is already very Spartan. I keep it really nice and... which is good. [0:19:00] But my chair is... it's in my bedroom. I threw my stuff on there, whatever. But I can tell I'm kind of prepping, you know what I mean? And I think that's partly why I'm up at night.

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: You know what I mean? And I'm up at night not watching The Office. And I do watch The Office when I eat something or whatever, just a comfort show. But one documentary after the other. (Pause) So I think what's happening is, I really... it's the next step to just being at my desk, working on my book. My mind's ready to...

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: For intellectual activity. (Pause) [0:20:00]

THERAPIST: [Maybe the couch] (ph) is somehow connected to that, too (inaudible at 0:20:30)...

CLIENT: Mm-hmm.

THERAPIST: Of activity in your mind. [You're writing yourself or] (ph)...

CLIENT: Yeah, maybe. (Pause) [0:21:02] I think it's also that, someone like me... I think the anxiety also is that when things are going well, it's like, what else is there?

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: That existential thing that starts creeping up, all right, well, I get... so this is when things are going well (chuckling). It's like, all right. That creates a whole other...

THERAPIST: Yeah. Even then, what drives you? Why do anything if so much of your life has been spent preoccupied with trying to get things going well? Right? That's been the drive. Get it better, get it healthier. It's why we so often talk about your saying, I think I'm doing okay, though.

CLIENT: Mm-hmm.

THERAPIST: What if that's no longer in question? What if you are doing okay? [0:21:56] Then what? Then why do you get up in the morning?

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: Why do you write a book? Why do you become a life coach or not...

CLIENT: Right, right.

THERAPIST: If you could do all these things?

CLIENT: Yeah. (Pause) Especially when the time factor creeps in, that existential time thing. It's like, oh, I've only got a good ten, fifteen years left anyway. So what is all this? I'm busting my ass for what? Or worrying, or stressing or...? I don't know, man. Yeah, that's... but I just have to... I'm getting better at accepting that that's just not going to go away. That's...

THERAPIST: Yeah, what's the alternative?

CLIENT: Yeah, exactly. That's not going to go... it doesn't matter how much I come here or how many books I read or who I meet or who I... whatever. That's not... that's the condition of life (chuckling). [0:22:55] I mean, we are all (pause) in that boat, you know what I mean? So... and in a way it's all relative.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: You can be 20 and think the same thing. You could be like, all right, what? I've got 20 years until I'm 40. And then it's all... (chuckling) it's all... the time... the trick of time that it plays on you is that it's all relative. You can... (Pause) So I've gotten a little bit better at being, I think, where more people are, which is that, it might pop into their mind. But then they just go on with their day.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: I mean, it's... (Pause)

THERAPIST: Well, and you also (inaudible at 0:23:46) take what you know about time and allow that to give you an appreciation for every day that other people... some people don't have or are not aware enough (crosstalk). [0:23:59]

CLIENT: I think that's what... but that's what art's for.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I think that's why the book's coming along more. That's why the... I think it's because I'm now able to not... when I'm writing now, I'm not like, what the fuck? Why am I even bothering? I'm not... there's a whole other narrative going on in my mind...

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: Kind of stopping me from writing. It's like, what the fuck's the point? Or, what am I writing anyway? This sucks. And I'm already this old, and da da da da da. You know what I mean? There's this whole other chatter going on.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: Now I don't feel that. I'm like, no, this is good. I'm just kind of letting go of that.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: Another good thing?

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: He's awesome. Fucking awesome interview on YouTube from 1970, I don't know when.

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: But he said something that was so right on. He said that he... (Pause) From a young age, he was both fascinated and in fear, terror, because of the particular of... what does he call it? [0:25:03] The particular of the universal or something like that. But just that one day when he was young he just had this bombshell realization that nothing is the same, that no leaf is the same, no...

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: Even blades of grass are kind of different, and that he will never, ever, ever be able to experience all those things.

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: He'll never see every beautiful landscape. He'll never go to every awesome museum. He'll never meet every beautiful woman, or whatever it is. And he said that, for a long time, that was a hindrance. So he would start making... I mean, in a way I think I've been like that. He would make lists. He would in other words try to inventory everything and try to... and then, when he got a little bit older, he said now his consolation... he thinks about future generations. [0:26:02] He thinks, okay, well, I won't be able to read every book. But the beauty of it is that, whatever that book is in the library that I think about... that, oh, there's books in the library that I haven't discovered yet. He's like, well, someday someone else is going to discover those books.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: And he's like, that's kind of the beautiful thing. He was like, that's my consolation. He's like, that. So I thought that was...

THERAPIST: And it also takes away the beauty. If you could see it all, then it's finite. It's...

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. Well, that's the thing. You know it's not finite. So it just makes you chase after something that can never be, you know what I mean? So you waste your energy kind of. [0:26:57] But yeah, I thought that was really... I think a lot of artists have that... that's their problem and their... part of their talent at the same time.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: That's why you have things to say or images or metaphors, because you notice how unique and unusual everything is. But it also... I mean, I feel that way at Widener all the time. I'll be... I'm just... it almost causes anxiety. It's just, I'm so, what are these fucking books? I mean, who's reading these? It's just ridiculous. But then I see other people in there just doing their thing...

THERAPIST: (Chuckling)

CLIENT: And it's just like I... yeah, you have to not let it go, but you have to be like, yeah, that's cool. Yeah, I don't know what that book is. But someone someday is going to come here and take that book out (pause), just like I did. I mean, a lot of stuff I was taking out of the library hadn't been checked out in years.

THERAPIST: Hmm. [0:27:55]

CLIENT: And I used to love... it's 1978 or whatever, when she would stamp the book.

THERAPIST: (Chuckling)

CLIENT: That's insane! Or never been checked out. It's like, what the fuck? But yeah, it's like, why would they? I mean, this is a bazillion books in there, and...

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: I don't know. (Pause)

THERAPIST: We're talking about... you're talking about the existential, about the external. But I also think it's sort of relates back to who... how you could feel about yourself in your own skin as a person, and that that's part of where people can relax into just leading a life, their own life, to the best that they can...

CLIENT: Mm-hmm.

THERAPIST: Is if you know there's no one else in the world who is you, and never will be, never was and never will be another you. And it's not being king, it's not being pope, it's not being the most famous author in the United States contemporarily. But it is something special.

CLIENT: Mm-hmm. [0:29:07]

THERAPIST: And I think there's a way... or to... the you that started to be as a young child did not feel uniquely, exquisitely known and special for who he was to your mom...

CLIENT: Yeah, definitely not, yeah.

THERAPIST: Where (ph) you're loved just for you...

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: Not because you're the best or the most this or the least that, just... it's you.

CLIENT: Right. Yeah, no, definitely not, yeah. And it turns out they didn't feel those things either.

THERAPIST: Towards themselves.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Yeah. So they didn't have any of that to give.

CLIENT: No reference point to know how to do that, yeah. Except for my grandmother. (Chuckling) But for some reason none of them became like her.

THERAPIST: Hmm. [0:29:59]

CLIENT: Yeah. (Pause) [0:31:00] Yeah, it's funny. The way I've been feeling lately is like that whole metaphor of waking up from a coma. [0:31:58] It's kind of like, now, it's as if I can't even... (Pause) I'm having a lot of moments where I cannot focus my thought, you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: Because it does kind of feel like a discombobulated dude (chuckling) that just got... woke up, just like, what is happening?

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: So that's... it's a little disconcerting a little bit. I was just sitting. I was like, what am I thinking about right now? And I... it was literally a million things at the same time.

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: I couldn't... you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: I could pick out maybe five (chuckling), but it's like, oh man.

THERAPIST: So it's not an absence of finding things that you're thinking (crosstalk).

CLIENT: No, I was thinking about the books I'm writing, this business, and my mom and grandmother getting older, whatever, that, and... (Pause) [0:32:58] I don't... and nothing bad really. It's just a lot. It's just a lot of stuff.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm. (Pause)

CLIENT: I mean, the one... the other thing that I think is pushing me to do this as well... I think there's something about being in a community of people who... (Pause) I don't know, there's something about that that feels right to me, you know what I'm saying?

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm. [0:33:55]

CLIENT: I feel... I liked... like I said, they had a vibe kind of like you, you know that I mean? They just clicked. And I feel like I need... personally it's good, too, not just for the business. But the idea of having a place to be twice a week that's both for my own benefit as a business, but also that there's a collegial, supportive... you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: There's something about that that I think I've been wanting. I thought... when I got back here, I thought I'd make connections with writers and have this... and that just hasn't happened.

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: I just... I'm not... I'm just not feeling it. Darien's weird with that. I don't know, I just don't feel it. They're either uppity or weird or they're really not good writers. And I don't want to bother, or whatever it is. But this, there's something about it. There's something nice. You know what I mean? I think I've been looking for that, some kind of... other than the friends I have, some kind of network of like... [0:35:02]

THERAPIST: Collegial (ph).

CLIENT: Exactly, yeah. Just something collegial where I just feel like, yeah, we're all kind of part of this thing. And we're all kind of doing our own thing, but I'll be able to send an e-mail to the woman who I met and be like, hey. I think they're very open to kind of helping in other words.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: [I was like, okay] (ph). So I started my business, da da da da da. How do you handle something like this? Or how do you...? What do you suggest for...? That's nice. That's a very...

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: But there are Friday get togethers and all that.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: I'm not always going to do that, but I just like that...

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 0:35:46)

CLIENT: Yeah, they already put me on their e-mail list of... yeah, it's just... it's nice.

THERAPIST: Hmm. (Pause) [0:36:00] I wonder if it feels like here in a way.

CLIENT: Kind of, yeah. I mean (pause), yeah. If... I mean... well, I'm trying to figure out how. It's comforting in that way, yeah.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: Yeah. (Pause) I mean, the vibe is... there's something I recognize when I walk in there (chuckling). And like I said, because they seem kind of similar to... kind of...

THERAPIST: To me.

CLIENT: Yeah, they're not hippy dippy or kind of... it's not drab and weird. And they're not in their Birkenstocks or whatever.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: So there's... something feels kind of vibrant and pleasant and optimistic and kind of collegial. [0:37:02] I don't know, I don't know how to explain it, but (pause) forward-looking or something.

THERAPIST: Like the family you didn't get to have.

CLIENT: Yeah. And also that I've not allowed myself... I could have been more... (Pause) I mean, some of that's me, you know what I mean. I just didn't... in Glasgow I didn't get more... I could have been more involved or more... I could have put myself more out there to be in certain circles, whatever. And I kind of... I did and I didn't, you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: Because I think... yeah. Part of the change that's happened is I'm just connecting with people in a more real way now without feeling so weird or... I don't know, I'm just comfortable. So...

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm. [0:37:57] (Pause) [0:39:00] [0:40:00]

CLIENT: My credit score went up.

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: It's in the 600s now...

THERAPIST: Wow.

CLIENT: Which is still not great, but it's... it felt good. I went and looked up my Credit Karma thing. It was like (pause), your score, it's not good. But it... you'll qualify for loans and this and that. You might get a higher rate, but I was... yeah, I was really excited.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: Of course though, because of this fucking ER situation, I totally lost track of the fact that it's September. So I was two days fucking late on my first payment for my new credit card.

THERAPIST: (Chuckling) Oh.

CLIENT: It was like, mother fucker. So today I immediately did it. [0:40:56] And I paid more than double what I owed. And I know that's... it... I know it's not a huge deal to be two days late. But I was just like, you mother fucker, man. (Chuckling) The whole point was... but whatever. That's... I know it's not a big deal, but... (Pause)

THERAPIST: Well, it is and it isn't.

CLIENT: It is and it isn't, yeah.

THERAPIST: In a way, it symbolically matters (crosstalk).

CLIENT: Yeah, it fucking mattered to me. I mean, it's not a big deal in the sense that, I'm not catastrophizing it, you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I think if this was a year ago or two years ago I'd be like, oh fuck. Now they're going to tell the credit agency, and I'm going to be fucked, and my score's going to go down. It's like, mmm, no. I mean, people are late, so, as long as you're not 30 days late or many days late... but yeah. It just sucked, because I've worked hard to...

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm. [0:41:56]

CLIENT: But whatever, I paid extra. And I think I'm going to make another payment next week just to... (laughing) I don't know, just make myself feel better.

THERAPIST: Hmm.

CLIENT: And I might write to them. I might talk to customer service and be like, look. This is what happened. It's not an excuse, but I'm just letting you know. And I made a big payment as soon as I remembered.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: They don't report it, right, when you're two days late? They don't report that shit.

THERAPIST: I don't know. I don't know (crosstalk).

CLIENT: I don't know either. I don't think they do.

THERAPIST: You'll probably have whatever the interest charge is then, for being late, yeah.

CLIENT: Oh yeah, they immediately tacked on $20 for the late fee. But I don't think they do. Otherwise way more people would have fucked up...

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I mean, if you're... I mean, things happen. If you're two days late, I mean... but...

THERAPIST: Probably if it's a pattern they would, but not...

CLIENT: Yeah, a pattern, or I think there's something about 30... they have this thing, like 15 days, 30 days, 60 days...

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: But yeah, I think it's okay. But whatever. [0:42:58] I'm just going to... just I'll feel better if I just let them know that, look, this is what happened. Maybe they'll take off the late fee.

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm.

CLIENT: My bank did that one time, so...

THERAPIST: Yeah. (Pause) I haven't made a deposit for a while and was going to sometime this week. And I figured I should check with you...

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Since I have probably three of your checks.

CLIENT: Ooh, okay, all right. Mm-hmm.

THERAPIST: If there's a time you want me to wait (crosstalk).

CLIENT: Yeah, can you...? Can you wait until Friday or something?

THERAPIST: Sure (crosstalk).

CLIENT: And I'll make sure that... and I'll make sure... that way I'll take care of this thing today with these people. And then I'll make another deposit by the end of the week to try to...

THERAPIST: Okay. [0:43:58]

CLIENT: So three... you have... plus this?

THERAPIST: Plus this would be four.

CLIENT: Okay, so we're talking $250?

THERAPIST: [$60, $65, and $60] (ph) (crosstalk).

CLIENT: Yeah, so $250, $275, something like that, right?

THERAPIST: Yeah, I don't know what this check is.

CLIENT: Yeah, okay.

THERAPIST: I think they were $60, $60, and $65.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: I'm pretty sure.

CLIENT: All right. I'll make sure that... yeah, okay.

THERAPIST: Okay?

CLIENT: Thank you, Claire (sp?).

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: All right, see you tomorrow.

THERAPIST: See you tomorrow.

CLIENT: 12:50?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Nice. Have a good day.

THERAPIST: You, too. (Pause) [0:45:00]

END TRANSCRIPT

1
Abstract / Summary: Client discusses the stress and anxiety he feels about starting his own business without the capital he needs.
Field of Interest: Counseling & Therapy
Publisher: Alexander Street Press
Content Type: Session transcript
Format: Text
Original Publication Date: 2014
Page Count: 1
Page Range: 1-1
Publication Year: 2014
Publisher: Alexander Street
Place Published / Released: Alexandria, VA
Subject: Counseling & Therapy; Psychology & Counseling; Health Sciences; Theoretical Approaches to Counseling; Family and relationships; Work; Teoria do Aconselhamento; Teorías del Asesoramiento; Job security; Stress; Nervousness; Psychoanalytic Psychology; Anxiety; Indecisiveness; Psychoanalysis
Presenting Condition: Anxiety; Indecisiveness
Clinician: Abigail McNally, fl. 2012
Keywords and Translated Subjects: Teoria do Aconselhamento; Teorías del Asesoramiento
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