TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: ..Friday.

CLIENT: Yea.

THERAPIST: Be here tomorrow (crosstalk) and not on Friday.

CLIENT: And tomorrow at 11:50, right?

THERAPIST: Yea, mmm (crosstalk) tomorrow at 12.

CLIENT: 12. Instead of 12:50, we’re going to do 12 on Thursdays.

THERAPIST: Yea.

CLIENT: Got it, got it.

THERAPIST: That make sense? Okay. I also—there’s another date that I really didn’t tell you about, (crosstalk). October 3, I’m going to be out in a conference.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: So, I had mentioned the 11th, but didn’t mention the 3rd when I wrote down the dates for Thanksgiving.

CLIENT: Oh, thank you.

THERAPIST: …for a week off and that’s Thursday and Friday.

CLIENT: All right, cool, thank you. Ohhh, so you know how I’ve been lately is a little tired. First of all, I’ve been seeing awful dreams now, very stressful dreams and, today, I was just thinking, I was like, you know what, I think I’ve got to let myself be tired (chuckles). I’m doing a lot of shit, man. [00:01:00]

THERAPIST: Uh-hum.

CLIENT: You know, and I do feel really good, but it’s a lot, like my mind is tired, you know? And I feel, I feel stiffer back here, I think than I’ve ever been. Like my hip is even kind of hurting, you know what I mean? I’m just (sighs.) It’s a weird combination of feeling the best I’ve ever felt, but that doesn’t mean, you’re relaxed, but you’re not, at the same time.

THERAPIST: Uh-hum, uh-hum.

CLIENT: But, yea, Sunday—or was it Sunday night? I don’t know. Two nights ago or three nights ago, it was so—I had never in my life awoken in the dream? I had chest pains? And when I woke up, I had chest pains, so—I mean, that’s never happened. I’ve seen all kinds of weird—even when I’ve had night terrors or whatever, that was really weird. I didn’t like that at all (chuckles). Umm. [00:02:01]

THERAPIST: What was the dream? Can you remember (inaudible)?

CLIENT: Uhh, yea, I’m just putting them in all in my voice memo, I just, umm—It wasn’t even particularly awful. It was just really, really vivid. And the thing I do remember is a woman said “Hey.” She worded it so weird, she said “Hey, aren’t you going to become Brian? (sp?)” or something like that? And she was like, yea, like that, and just as I was doing that, I had just really sharp pain, and then I woke up and I was like, that’s really there, you know?

CLIENT: Now, I had had a peanut butter and jelly sandwich at fucking 2 in the morning or something. That doesn’t help, but

THERAPIST: Are you sure it’s the peanut butter sandwich gave you a bad dream? (chuckles)

CLIENT: What, (laughs) (crosstalk) right, right.

THERAPIST: Peanut butter sandwich. That was a very particular dream. [00:03:04]

CLIENT: Yea, yea, yea, yea, yea. And it was on the UConn campus, even though it wasn’t the UConn campus. Umm. Yea, that was weird. Then there was this other thing in it where, I’ve been seeing these weird, like threesome things, where like I’m having a threesome with two women? But it’s not—it doesn’t end well, or it doesn’t start well. This was, I mean, this was very Freudian, I think this one because, as it was happening, I was like these women aren’t even really attractive or whatever, you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Uh-hum.

CLIENT: Oh, also it was kind of in public.

THERAPIST: Umm.

CLIENT: But it wasn’t like, at least I don’t think I was naked. I think they were or something, but—and one of them, when I put my hand down there, it was like sharp and like sharp teeth or something. It was really weird. Yea, I never had anything like that. [00:04:16]

THERAPIST: And you were scared? or...

CLIENT: No, I just kept doing like, oh, what the fuck, that’s weird, that doesn’t feel right, you know? I don’t think I was scared at all in the dream. A lot of these dreams I’ve been seeing, just in the past few days, they’re more like just stress.

THERAPIST: Uh-hum.

CLIENT: Like I just feel rushed or stressed or, like last night, I had a dream where these big, pale green larva-looking like insects kept coming out of places, and I kept spraying them and shit, and, yea, just, yea. (pause) I think I feel—I think it’s a lot of (blows breath) I’m [00:05:06] really getting selfish, like I really just want to be left alone.

I don’t want to go to this fucking wedding this weekend. I think that’s stressing me out, to be honest. I’ve got to go. I’ve got to take a ferry. I’ve got to crash with my friend in his room because I can’t afford my own room, and then once I’m there, I’m there. You know what I mean, you know? I just don’t want to go. I really don’t want to go. And then we have a show Tuesday, which I mean, it’ll be fine. I just feel like I’m so focused on this part of my life right now, like my inner world, I just, I don’t want to do these other things, you know? They’re stressing me out and they’re just I feel that it’s just too much, you know?

I mean, I try to stop and, it’s fine, it’s not—I know that it’s been getting bigger than it really is, but I just you know. [00:06:02]

THERAPIST: You have, like, a lot going on inside.

CLIENT: Yea.

THERAPIST: Having these dreams, it’s like what you grappling with…

CLIENT: Yea, you know, because I know when I go to this wedding, that’s Friday, Saturday I mean I’ve got to do pleasantries and chit-chat, and I just, aww, I don’t have it in me. But, you know, what do you do? If I don’t go, you know, it doesn’t look good you know. It’s not, I mean, umm. (pause)

THERAPIST: I wonder what comes to mind about these dreams? There are so stressful.

CLIENT: I think they’re anxiety, stress dreams, you know, just overwhelmed, feeling overwhelmed and…

THERAPIST: They’re particular, though, you know. It’s not just any old anxiety dream.

CLIENT: What do you mean? [00:07:01]

THERAPIST: Well, like being with two women, larva, you know?

CLIENT: But aren’t all dreams—they all have something specific in them, right? I mean…

THERAPIST: Yea.

CLIENT: Yea, I mean—The women thing, clearly, is because of, obviously, the way I’ve been feeling (chuckles) about what’s been going on with me and women and stuff like that. On the one hand, wanting (inaudible) .

THERAPIST: But it adds another layer when you feel her vagina and her teeth, you know?

CLIENT: Yea, that is weird.

THERAPIST: And it’s aggressive.

CLIENT: Yea, yea.

THERAPIST: Maybe it’s not safe, maybe women are, you know, there’s something trapping (crosstalk).

CLIENT: Yea, I do. I always have that mixed feeling about what I’m—you know, I want to be in a really great relationship, but because of my upbringing and my past, and the choices I’ve made and all that shit. I mean, yea, on some level, I so don’t trust women, I don’t—you know what I mean? [00:08:02]

THERAPIST: That feels more like this dream (crosstalk) actually even deeper layers of who women are.

CLIENT: You know what’s really funny? The very next day, no, no two days ago, yesterday, I was on my way home from—I had a pretty nice day yesterday, you know, whatever. On my way home from practice, there’s this one chick who I’ve been kind of hooking up with, you know. She’s, you know, I’ve been blowing her off like I’ve been doing lately and all that. So, yesterday, again, she was maybe supposed to come over—I mean it’s just purely like sex. I mean, she’s nice and everything, but it’s just purely sex.

And, again, I blew her off, you know. So I felt bad, so on my way home from practice, I was like, hey, you know, know, know, know. Then she—this is like, I don’t think ever happened to me, but she got really petty…I’m like…

THERAPIST: Petty.

CLIENT: Yea, you know how, you know the cliché thing of women, you get really angry and, you know—I think the best button that the lady can really get a guy is say shit about his penis or something, you know what I mean? I was like, really? Wow! She got really—I don’t know if she was maybe drunk. She also sounded—something was odd in her text. So…[00:09:15]

THERAPIST: Like going for the jugular.

CLIENT: Yea, that was just…

THERAPIST: Like she was feeling hurt.

CLIENT: I mean, I handled it so well. If that was a year ago, even six months ago maybe, I could have (swishing sound) you know, at least for a few days or something, you know. I didn’t shoot anything back. I thought of a lot of things I could say back, but I was, like, wow! That’s really petty. I was like, thanks for letting me know who you really are. That’s cool, but I was, like, you know, I feel kind of bad for her. I don’t—there’s a lot of anger there, you know? But, I was like, take care. I don’t know what to tell you. But, it didn’t help with whatever deep, subconsciously…

THERAPIST: Sure. [00:10:03]

CLIENT: You know, I was, well, this is why. You know what I mean? You’re chasing me down for sex. You’re sending me—she sends me texts and she sent me pictures, and I mean—so clearly, you’re into it. I mean, you’re upset that you’re not getting it from me. You know, and now this? You see that’s why—and unfortunately there’s truth to some of that you know? I don’t know any guy, even the shittiest guy I know—that just, we wouldn’t, you know what I mean? We don’t do that. By the way, your fat, you know what I mean? Or just, you know, your tits suck. We don’t go for that thing, you know, and it’s just like that’s what—I’m sorry, but that’s the kind of stereotype. That’s the thing that guys just, you know?

THERAPIST: I also think you, though, have had experience with some women who have done something like that, and so it might feel—because your mother did, like (crosstalk) all women… [00:11:03]

CLIENT: Yea. I mean I’ve had nothing like that.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: Maybe in other ways, they’ve treated me—but you’re right, it’s just all the same kind of thing.

THERAPIST: (inaudible) in that same internal relationship that you have with your mother.

CLIENT: Yea, yea, yea.

THERAPIST: You’re prepared and waiting for that kind of viciousness.

CLIENT: Right, right, right, right right.

THERAPIST: Like, I want you, I want you, I want you and then all of a sudden, attack you.

CLIENT: Yea, yea, yea.

THERAPIST: To come out at any time.

CLIENT: Yea, I’m the same with Samantha. I mean it’s really all the same thing (crosstalk). Like terror running out of the car. Yea, it’s like suddenly I’m just going to act like this means pretty much nothing to me, you know? Yea.

THERAPIST: Whereas probably, you also know you’ve found and fallen for women who had (crosstalk) there, right?

CLIENT: Yea, yea, yea, yea. (sniffing) [00:11:58]

THERAPIST: In some ways, that’s what’s been loving, like the erotic—and I mean erotic in a sort of general, broad-based way about loving, affectionate, erotic-type feelings has had in it, aggression, like being hurt sort of built into it.

CLIENT: Right, which makes sense because then the irony is the one girl who so far is really cool, right with Uma, I didn’t want to even have sex with her, you know what I mean? I mean, it’s obviously not just her, because I’m also saying no to these other opportunities.

THERAPIST: Yea.

CLIENT: But, still, I mean (pause) I didn’t even want to make out with her that much, you know what I mean? I just…

THERAPIST: You also didn’t want to break it off though, either.

CLIENT: No, no.

THERAPIST: I think there’s something—it’s like this is starting to open up a little bit, so that you did want to immediately, like ugh…see ya later.

CLIENT: No, no, no, no, no.

THERAPIST: Like you’re noticing, so where is the erotic when someone is being [00:12:59] (crosstalk)

CLIENT: I think I’m just really in a taking care of myself mode and now I’m getting selfish about it almost, in a good way, it’s like—I don’t want to go to this fucking wedding. I don’t want to, I don’t know, go to your birthday party or whatever, I just—and that’s getting hard for me. What’s the word? Yea, like I’m just getting very selective about what kind of social interactions I want and I feel like I’m going maybe to the extreme a little bit, but I feel like it’s remedial. Is that the adjective of remedy? (chuckles) because it always sounds like, in school..[00:13:58] like oh yea.

THERAPIST: (chuckles) yea, I know what you mean. Appealing.

CLIENT: Yea, yea. I feel like—because like at this wedding, I’m going to see a lot of people, all lovely, I love these people, but I’ve got to explain, you know what I mean? Like I can’t, just like, yep, everything’s great. I mean, it’s friendships. You’ve got to talk, right? I started a coaching bit. It’s almost like exhausting to explain all these things, you know.

THERAPIST: Uh-hum. (pause)

CLIENT: Oh..part of me is like, dude, just go down there Saturday, go to the wedding, and just take the last ferry (chuckles) out of there, I don’t know. But, you know, you can’t do that. Or just go Saturday and just leave Sunday morning. Oh…(pause)

THERAPIST: I also think, as you’re talking about this wedding and thinking about wanting to be alone, there’s something alive in it and then you’re dream about the two women. It’s like, it reminds you of your mother’s intrusiveness, the caretaking a lot of you and your body, actually. You know when it would feel invasive, that there is a kind of taking something? But, I think it could also feel like that at a wedding right now, if you just want to relax. (crosstalk) [00:15:32]

CLIENT: It’s smothering. Yea, that’s a really good point, yea. Right now I feel smothered. Anytime I think of these big obligatory kind of things, I feel kind of smothered, you know? I mean, even with shows, I’m psyched, you know, I’m glad I took the show, it’s a really good bill, you know?. You know the band?

THERAPIST: I’ve heard of it.

CLIENT: You’ve heard of them?

THERAPIST: Yea.

CLIENT: They’re like a really big indie band, so the guy we’re playing with is also in that band. You know, it’s a really good opportunity, you know? Not a huge deal, but it’s a deal. You know what I mean? But, I’m already looking forward to just being done. [00:16:12]

I’m like, because I realize now that I’m like, wow, I kind of don’t care that much right now about shows. I care about music and making music, and I’m sure the show will be great. We had practice last night. It was fun, but (pause) I’ve started moving further and further away from like needing that validation, you know? So it’s like, (pause)

It’s funny, more and more and more, I’m realizing that, in a weird way, I am very similar to my uncle, you know? It’s like I’ve always been on this spiritual path. I’m just not super religious, but that’s what’s going on. That’s all this is. It’s just now finally finding a way to [00:17:11] embrace it and, well recognize it first of all, but embrace it and realize that all of these things are just part of that.

THERAPIST: Yea.

CLIENT: This is all one big project, you know? So whether it’s putting out a record or starting a life coaching thing, which is all great, but what’s happening is part of spiritual—you know, it is about—I think I do enjoy something almost monastic, (chuckles) you know what I mean? I think I just like being alone, you know? Overall. I mean I need contact, but (pause).

THERAPIST: Well, especially if she had teeth in hidden places and (inaudible) layer of what happens when you get close to somebody, you get bitten. [00:18:11]

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: Do you get smothered. Do you get intruded upon? Do you disappear? Do you get swallowed up from all of those metaphors of what it means to bet close to a woman?

CLIENT: Yea.

THERAPIST: Including even here, you know? There could still be layers of being on a couch. Do you get a different meaning? Do you disappear? Do you get swallowed up by this process in some way or (inaudible) .

CLIENT: I mean, no fucking diggity, no doubt that’s what’s going—I mean I think a lot of these dreams are about this. They’re not about fucking life coaching. You know what I mean? At least I don’t think so. I mean, I’m a pretty tough person. These are all good things. You know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Uh-hum. [00:19:00]

CLIENT: I think there is something going on here which is that more and more I’m getting to a gut level, just essence kind of parts of me that are not up here. They’re just really—and I think there is a lot of emotion and confusion and things I don’t understand or, you know, all that shit. So, yea, I think most of it is about this. I doubt that if I was in psychoanalysis or, you know, so there wouldn’t be this. There would be other things, you know, but I think there’s something going on right now that is a constant.

I ‘m in a constant state of (pause), even when I’m feeling good, kind of like self-reflection and contemplative, you know what I mean? I’m in a very (chuckles)—and I think that’s all good. I think I’m in a very kind of like super—I was telling my friend, Bethany (sp?) yesterday, the other thing about going to these weddings, I honestly am having more and more trouble [00:20:09] reconciling. I have an uncle, for Christ’s sake, who is stuck in love boat (ph) you know what I mean?

So I’m supposed to like—I just, I’m having trouble now hanging out with—It’s literally making me sick sometimes. We’re like, hey, yea, let’s have a beer and, like what am I doing? You know that more superficial thing has washed away. That American thing we have of like, it’s so sad what’s going on in fucking Africa, you know? But, we’re talking about it over martinis. It’s starting to not work for me anymore. You know. Not to be a douche about it, but it’s just not—I having trouble with that. I’d rather just be home and just be—or be with a few very good friends and something, I don’t know, I don’t know. [00:21:06]

It’s not that I can’t go to the bar, but—I mean, I haven’t been there in months. I just have less and less and less desire. Then the bigger the event, like the wedding, is just even more—I mean it’s their day. What, they’re not going to have a wedding? It’s fantastic, you know, but I just—because even though I love all those people, it’s not really an intimate—It’s a wedding. We can’t have one on one, quiet real conversation. I mean, maybe we will, I don’t know, but you know it’s hard to explain these things. What are going to do, just disappear from your friends’ lives, be like hey guys, by the way, lately I might not be—yea. It’s kind of a difficult thing to navigate a little bit with social things. (pause)

THERAPIST: Especially, you’re at a place right now, in this process of being awakened to wanting a kind of entity, of wanting to be know, not wanting superficial, you know? That there’s something very powerful that you never had as a child about really being seen [00:22:26] that good feeling is not what you’re thinking (inaudible). But, no wonder that part is hungry, you know, it was deprived (inaudible) to forgive. (pause)

CLIENT: (deep breath) Oh, the thing I notice is that I’ve been doing more OCD things lately. I’ve been checking my lock more. Not like several times, but I have noticed a lot of times now, the last week, I’ll lock my door, and walk back and check it one more time. You know, I had stopped doing that, but, you know. You know, this thing, I’m kind of like playing with my hair a lot. So…[00:23:19]

It’s not a big deal, but I think it’s just part of this whole…

THERAPIST: Yea, part of the (inaudible.)

CLIENT: I just feel like I can see—and so actually I never felt this way. I feel good, but kind of antsy, kind of, you know.

THERAPIST: So maybe there’s something that’s not trusting, not trusting women, not trusting me, you know. The checking is a kind of making sure, making sure, making sure.

CLIENT: Also, yea, not just that, but that everything I’m doing is a risk right now. Not having any steady income. You, now, I mean it’s just a lot. Good stuff, but (pause) …[00:24:19]

THERAPIST: Who is Brian (sp?) in your first dream? I mean, I know that’s your pen name, but…

CLIENT: What?

THERAPIST: The first dream when you said the woman came up to you and said, “Are you coming?” How did she say that? Wanting you to come in right now?

CLIENT: No, she was like, oh yea, how did I—it was a weird syntax, she was like “Aren’t you going to become Brian (sp?)?” As if like you’re the guy that’s going to, you know? It was very pleasant. It was like, I shook her hand said, like “Yea, yea.” And that’s when, I don’t know.

THERAPIST: So who is that person to you? When she is asking that. I wonder where you go with that?

CLIENT: No, I mean it’s me. I don’t know. What do you…[00:25:06]

THERAPIST: She doesn’t say Brian by asking, in other words.

CLIENT: No, but the Brian (sp?) thing to me is so. I know it’s my dad’s name, so it’s not like I changed my name to Bob Dylan or something. I mean like, I don’t think of it as such like a….

THERAPIST: So is it becoming your dad? So I’m asking, I don’t know what it means. I’m not telling you…

CLIENT: I think it just means becoming this, like a better person, just someone whose more comfortable in their skin and is tackling these projects that I really care about.

THERAPIST: To becoming more yourself.

CLIENT: Yea, just becoming more yourself. I’m assuming because it was very pleasant, you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Van (sp?) is your dad’s name.

CLIENT: Yea, I mean it’s like a two syllable name.

THERAPIST: But spelled the way you spell it…

CLIENT: No. No, no, no. He has an “h” in the middle.

THERAPIST: Okay. Umm. When you say that was his name, his middle name? What do you mean?

CLIENT: His first name.

THERAPIST: It was his first name? Huh.

CLIENT: That’s why it worked out so well. I was like…

THERAPIST: That’s great.

CLIENT: Yea, it’s like it’s perfect you know. That way, I’m not being a poser or [00:26:26] like I’m ashamed of my name and come up with some fancy names. It’s my dad’s name, you know, so it’s cool. And it just so happens to help people not be douches trying to pronounce Lampard (ph) you know.

THERAPIST: Did I say it right?

CLIENT: What?

THERAPIST: Think I said it right? (chuckles)

CLIENT: Said what?

THERAPIST: Lampard (ph) (chuckles).

CLIENT: Oh, yea, yea, yea. Yea.

THERAPIST: So it feels to you like (inaudible) that is more of you becoming yourself.

CLIENT: It does, yea, yea. It is liberating for sure. I think it’s awesome to change your name, kind of. I never even thought about it. It’s kind of awesome, but it’s got to be right. You know what I mean? To me, it’s almost like a tattoo. I don’t need a million tattoos. This is just something that meant something to me. It’s not like it’s for show business, or this or [00:27:20] that. It helps with all that stuff, but yea, it’s like distancing. You know what I mean? It’s like I’m still Brian (ph), our name is that is in our family, but yea, it was a distancing thing. Like, you know what? No. I’ve always been kind of the gray sheep, doing things my own way, and let’s formalize that (chuckles) you know? (pause)

THERAPIST: So it’s part of the doing things your own way.

CLIENT: Yea, I mean everything now is Brian (sp?). I mean I think at some point I do need to legally make it legit.

THERAPIST: It’s even on your website.

CLIENT: Everything is Brian (sp?)

THERAPIST: I didn’t know that.

CLIENT: Oh you didn’t know that? Oh yea, yea, yea. Once I did the book and now [00:28:12] the band, it’s like, I mean, that’s who I am. Yea, yea. No. When I introduce myself to people, it’s Brian (sp?) I don’t say Lampard (ph) .

THERAPIST: Umm. I did not know that. (chuckles)

CLIENT: Yea. No it’s not just like a nom de plume or some douche (crosstalk). Naa. No. (pause) I mean that’s why it feels good. It wasn’t even a thought. Once the book was, it was like, yea, that’s it. Like I said, it’s not Brian Smith or something. Van obviously has no connection to Lampard (sp?) but it’s my family. You know what I mean, that’s not, you know. See, legally, probably what I would do is just make Lampard (sp?) like some kind of middle name. I don’t know, just find a way that it’s there. Yea, I had to go and do like a doing business as you know. (pause) [00:29:19]

THERAPIST: So it’s a matter of fact and it feels good, but then you get this Donna (sp?) in your dream.

CLIENT: I don’t know what that was about. That was really fucking scary. I did not like that. A hypochondriac doesn’t like shit like that.

THERAPIST: What about panic?

CLIENT: That’s what, yea, when I talked to Bethany (sp?) yesterday, she was like, oh yea, like I mean, panic attacks and dreams and stuff. Yea. (pause)

I do know that these are all secondary, the peanut butter, but they don’t help. You know what I mean? I don’t have a really nice mattress. I’m not down playing anything, I’m just saying that cannot help these things (chuckles). You know what I mean? It would have probably happened anyway, no doubt, but you know. I have a bad habit of having snacks late at night. [00:30:22] I’m awake, you know.

Yea, I know, definitely these are dreams of some kind of, I’m like looking for something or I’m like going somewhere, but I don’t know where, (inaudible) but it’s not. Yea, it’s weird. (pause)

THERAPIST: You wonder yourself if it really has to do with something happening here in this process.

CLIENT: Yea, I think there is just stuff that, obviously, you know, that’s getting stirred. I think more and more, I think a lot of what it is, is even I’m not aware of it day in and day out, I think I’m, on a gut level, way more connected now to when I was a kid and stuff that happened. I can’t articulate it all or even know what it is exact—but I think that’s a lot of what it is I think. You know what I mean? I think. On some kind of level, you know? (pause) [00:31:32]

(deep breath) (tapping)

I told you about that nonprofit thing I’m going to do, right?

THERAPIST: Yea.

CLIENT: I’m definitely doing that. (tapping)

THERAPIST: That’s for literacy.

CLIENT: Yea, I even like found a Cheshire literacy program thing that the library does, so that could be one of the things I can either donate or I can donate time or whatever. [00:32:43]

Then there’s that Children’s Room. Remember that? You know I’ve always wanted to be involved with that, so that could be something where a certain portion I can give to that or do like free something, go there and lead some kind of workshop or something like that. So there’s a few things like that, you know.

THERAPIST: To help traumatized kids, right? [00:33:09]

CLIENT: Yea, they’re like trauma, yea, grieving, and then the Cheshire thing is for immigrants learning English, reading, this and that, yea. Then there’s a school (sp?). I could do something there, some Cheshire. This is a lot, you know. I already talked to my friend who is a lawyer. So, I was like, you can make money, right? (chuckles) It’s a nonprofit. He was like, well yea, you’re being paid as a, you know. Obviously you can’t get donations and then do nothing with the donations and just pocket it, but as long as…

THERAPIST: You mean it’s a salary (crosstalk)

CLIENT: Yea, he was like, for a nonprofit, people make a lot of—you know, the executives, people in charge. They do well, you know. It’s like your giving your time and effort to make all that happen, so he was like that’s fine, you know. As long as then you’re giving time and part of that money then, you know.

Yea, I think it’s going to be really good, connect that to, you know, the life coaching thing. I can do workshops on writing and mixing creative writing with grief with, you know how [00:34:28] we deal with our memory, you know stuff that can help people, you know. (pause)

Yea, I think the thing is it’s a lot. You know what I mean? It’s just a lot. It’s all good, so I can’t be like, well I just won’t do this, I won’t do that. I mean, if you’re going to go for it, you’ve got to go for it you know. But I think it does mean that it’s going to take me time to—between this, you know what I mean. If I was just doing that stuff that’s one thing, but…(pause)

THERAPIST: I also think we can look at it as, you know, your association is now (inaudible) to the nonprofit. You know, it’s like an external counterpart and maybe safer, more intellectual counterpart to be thinking about to the internal counterparts of how you can help a traumatized, grieving kid (inaudible) to do anything and that’s the question that’s hovering right [00:36:01] now. How do you trust again, how do we reach that kid. (pause)

CLIENT: (deep breath) Yea, I guess, really at the end of the day, a lot of this is about trust, I guess. When you really whittle it down. It’s like trusting others, trusting myself. It’s just all about trust, yea. What makes me feel so much better is that, that is a good kind of counterbalance. Like, just now, when I was at Levi’s on my laptop, the mass poetry thing is going on, the (inaudible) or whatever. So I got an e-mail from them, their newsletter [00:37:31] whatever. “This is our future poet of the month” or whatever. I was like, how does this shit work? It was a shady fucking—probably a very nice person, but the poem they had was awful, or at the best, mediocre. So I was like, you know what, so I just wrote to the woman whose e-mail (inaudible), I was like, I’m just curious how do you guys select. I just get a very brief thing about music. I was just curious, looking forward to the festival, whatever. That little thing is a big deal. You know what I mean? That’s a very big deal.

THERAPIST: (inaudible)?

CLIENT: Without making a big deal of it to me. It’s a big deal exactly because I’m not making a big deal, you know what I mean? Just a very quick e-mail. I’m not thinking about it. I [00:38:19] don’t really give a shit either way. But it is about being assertive in a healthy way, you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: And that’s what not making a big deal out of it part, but doesn’t it letting yourself do that, mean also it’s a little moment when walking out on a limb, like putting yourself out there.

CLIENT: And also saying “I genuinely trust that I deserve,” or whatever, why not, that I belong, who the fuck are these people? The same with the nonprofit. Same with the life coaching, so yea, a lot of this stuff is finally about—yea I know I can get a real estate license or I can work in an office; but, a lot of it now is like, wait a second, it’s exactly what I want to help other people do. It’s like, umm, now I feel like this is way closer to my potential and the things I [00:39:15] genuinely care about than just willy nilly trying to make money here and there.

THERAPIST: I think this question of trust in others, trust in yourself is embedded in the conversation we had about—I don’t know if you remember, it was while back, about math and how you were pursuing it and was it half ass and what does it mean that you could not go full force into that or not. You know, all of these questions are lingering. What if you asked for it and you get bitten with a no. What if they say yes, and can you trust yourself if you didn’t follow through on it.

CLIENT: Right, right. I don’t know what this means, but lately, ever since we talked about it, I haven’t even thought about it.

THERAPIST: So that’s something too. I mean I think…

CLIENT: Maybe next year, I’ll be like, wow, it would have been really nice if I [00:40:04] finished it, but I think that’s all it will be. You know what I mean? Like, yea, that would have been nice if I could have just done that, but whatever.

THERAPIST: That’s part of it. If you were able to talk about all of the different feelings more and then come to terms with actually, it’s not that important (chuckles) to me.

CLIENT: Yea, yea.

THERAPIST: Then you get to pursue what is important to you. So…see you tomorrow.

CLIENT: See you then. All right, thanks Claire (sp?) Have a good one.

THERAPIST: You too.

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