TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: You have a huge pin in your wrist there.

THERAPIST: I do, you’re correct.

CLIENT: Just a little humor.

THERAPIST: I do.

CLIENT: So yesterday when I left here, I had let Eva know what was going on, and then right then, one of my wacky Assyrian friends texted me to say he was going to Waterboro, Quebec for something, and that I should take a ride with him, so I was like “You know what? Fuck it.” It was a nice sunny day, you know. So I did that. That took pretty much all day. He’s a nut job. But it was good to be with a friend, and I never go to Quebec for anything, really, so it was nice. And then of course, Eva didn’t even I sent her this thing, just like I said, “If you want, I can drop it off, I’m really sorry, I know I’m new here and I don’t want you to think blah blah blah…”. She wrote back something that said, “Don’t worry about it, it’s totally fine”. Yeah, so that’s nice. It doesn’t completely solve my issue but at least it’s something. [pause 00:01:24 to 00:01:42] Yeah, so I don’t know, I guess I talked to my mom again, and I guess we can talk to my uncle, and that really puts me into knots; I don’t want to have to do that, but I just can’t figure out another way to do it. [00:02:00]

THERAPIST: It sounds like that way feels better to you than working at a coffee shop, or something -

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah.

THERAPIST: That is another way to do it, but it doesn’t sound like that -

CLIENT: I mean, that is another way, but it isn’t. That’s the issue. That’s not a way to start a business, really. A coffee shop can’t give me a certain wad of cash to, let’s say, do some kind of marketing thing, you know what I mean? That’s a way to – like the tutoring – it’s a way to start making a little bit of money. I’m going to do that anyway, whether my uncle helps us or not, that has to happen anyway, so to me they’re kind of different. Something needs to happen to make a weekly – money trickling in. But something bigger needs to happen for, what we were talking – paying some debts off. My mom needs a washing machine – our washing machine’s been broken, my mom hangs the laundry, it’s ridiculous. If we were able to just pay off that one credit card, we could go and just get her a fucking dryer and be done with it or whatever. These are just such silly things.

[pause 00:03:09 to 00:03:23]

I think one thing I’m realizing though, well, I’ve always known, but now it’s really hitting home, is that times like this you have to think of your relationship to money. It is a day-to-day thing and it’s stressful, but you also have to, I think, take a break and think about what’s you know what I mean?

[00:03:51]

THERAPIST: I don’t.

CLIENT: In other words, I constantly have a tummy ache, back here is literally now just a slab of granite. I don’t even know what’s going on back here. My lower back – I’m just jacked up, not in a good way. So are others not to compare, but what is that? What is it that I can’t even disconnect a bit from that? I can intellectually – things are good, things are okay, I can go to Quebec, I’m alright, but I think there is something going on on a deeper level that’s really driving me crazy about this money thing. It’s probably that – money’s always been kind of looming for my family. My mom has been so, you know what I mean, about – not as bad as her sisters, but still, status, and just kind of conforming with her group of the Assyrian friends that she has or whatever. And then, not bringing me up with real guidance about money. The only guidance was what, “Pay for things in cash.” There were just these immigrant things, and that’s not the way the world was working any more. “Don’t have credit cards. Don’t get into debt.” That’s all great, but pay for college, how to live when you don’t live at home. So I think it’s all this stuff that [00:05:34]

THERAPIST: There’s a long history with money.

CLIENT: And a very kind of bumpy, choppy, you know.

THERAPIST: On occasion you’ve alluded to the feeling that money was killing your dad.

CLIENT: Yeah, I think – remember, I was saying, that’s why I think the hypochondria is back, I feel like “Oh my God, is this what he felt like?” and then he just keeled over and died. I think that’s triggered this weird thing in me. [00:06:05]

THERAPIST: Do you remember them fighting about it, or would he explicitly -

CLIENT: Not them fighting, I just remember my dad, especially toward the end, there was something going on with that business, like, he didn’t want to do it. I remember one or two very tense things with him. Not with my mom.

THERAPIST: With your uncle, the conversation? Or?

CLIENT: Not like towards each other, just him there was something going on. I don’t remember really.

THERAPIST: Maybe you didn’t know, exactly.

CLIENT: Yeah. I wasn’t savvy enough, I think, to whatever the business things – I mean I know it was a big deal to go from working in a factory and we were going to own not just the store but that whole property. I just don’t know because I feel like my uncle, the guy knows his shit. I mean, he wasn’t who he is now, but I trust him with my life. So when it comes to money stuff, the guy has nothing but our best interests, and I don’t remember him saying it’s not a good idea – I don’t know what the fuck it was. [00:07:14]

THERAPIST: Were they going to buy it together?

CLIENT: No.

THERAPIST: No. Just your dad.

CLIENT: Just my dad. My uncle was kind of like, really involved, his expertise and helping, negotiating and all that stuff.

THERAPIST: And buy the whole building. That’s expensive.

CLIENT: It was, but you know, we’re talking 1990 or whatever.

THERAPIST: Still.

CLIENT: It’s all relative, but we could do it.

THERAPIST: They had the money, in other words, for -

CLIENT: I mean, we had our house, and maybe my uncle was help – just like we had helped him. There were times when my parents would write him $25000 checks, and he would just turn around and pay it back as soon as he finished his condo. He was basically flipping before flipping was a thing. He’d be like, in those areas that are really nice now, those were like, crack-infested places; he was making them into nice condos. He would always need money at the last minute to just finish everything. My parents would help him, and he would turn around and pay them after he sold it. So maybe there was something like that, he helped them – I don’t remember, but I know that it was this Not only that, but I think that we had maybe even not that we had bought it, but that we were like – I think things were even signed or something. Something was really close, I think, when my dad died. Who knows whether it was – it could have been that my dad was just depressed. Maybe it wasn’t a money thing. Maybe he was always like that, who knows? I just don’t know. And also when you’re a kid, you may exaggerate like, “He can’t be upset sometimes,” you know what I mean? But I take that, now that he’s dead, I take that and what was going on – you attach meanings to things. I was frustrated. He hurt his arm in the factory, and then he’s fucking depressed. [00:09:14]

THERAPIST: What did you notice when you say “he’s fucking depressed”? What would you see in him?

CLIENT: I didn’t. I’m just saying, in retrospect…

THERAPIST: But what – when you’re at that age, what are you even picking up in him?

CLIENT: He would nap a lot. On the weekends he would nap – granted, the guy worked in the factory, he’s tired. I mean, George naps a lot. I don’t think George’s depressed, you know. But… I don’t know. Maybe he’s actually the same as my mom. Maybe we all have this melancholy thing. We’re different – I’m more like my dad where I laugh and I make light of things, but there’s something melancholy. Maybe that’s what it was. Depression is a big word. Because if he was depressed, I don’t know. [00:10:09]

THERAPIST: Well, regardless of whether you’d call it that or not, I’m just curious -

CLIENT: There’s definitely a melancholy -

THERAPIST: What was he like, you know? What did you pick up on? What stressed him out, how did he express being stressed, that kind of stuff.

CLIENT: Oh. Oh, oh, oh. Honestly I think the only thing that really stressed him out was my mom’s family. I don’t remember my dad complaining about work, or… Remember, I was even telling you, we’d go pick him up at one in the morning, and we’d go to IHOP? Why would a depressed guy do that all the time?

THERAPIST: You’d go pick him up at one in the morning?

CLIENT: Well, I don’t think I went alone, I don’t think so.

THERAPIST: But still, you were a teenager then.

CLIENT: Oh yeah. Well, not when I was going to go to school the next day. I’m just saying, a Friday night. I don’t remember. I don’t remember. It’s all a blur. A lot of the times – maybe it was the summer. I have no idea. Matter of fact, it had to be. I don’t remember on snowy nights, doing that, but my grandma, my grandpa, me and my mom. We’d pick him up, we’d go straight to IHOP. That’s – depressed people can’t do that more than a couple – he’d be like “Look, I’m tired, I want to go home”. [00:11:27]

THERAPIST: Regardless of whether we call it depression, it’s not important, it’s just trying to know him, and what was going on in his inner life, that you were picking up on.

CLIENT: I have no idea.

THERAPIST: I think you know more than you think you know.

CLIENT: Maybe.

THERAPIST: So much you say “I don’t know I don’t know, anyway, it doesn’t matter”. It does matter.

CLIENT: I think really it was just a family thing. Those years when my mom’s side was just douchey. I know that stressed him out for a fact. I know that.

[00:12:00]

THERAPIST: How would you know?

CLIENT: Because they would fight. There would be a lot of fighting. Money, I think sometimes. Remember in North Carolina, I was saying, they fought? They joked that they were going to get divorced – or my mom joked that they were going to get – I don’t know what that was about though. I don’t know what they were fighting about. Some of it, maybe, was just marital stuff. You know what I mean? Who knows? Then there was that really bad one, I was telling you, remember, in the summer one night, I was getting dropped off, my uncle was dropping – not Derek – but my mom’s brother-in-law was dropping me off. And the minute we opened the door, we could hear yelling. It was late at night, I don’t know what that was about either. I just don’t know. I can surmise that that was when we had just moved back. They were staying at my grandparents’ house. That could not have been easy on my dad. Or on my mom. So probably that pulled at them. And my dad was the type where he wouldn’t show any anger, but when he did, it was not pretty. He would never raise a hand, but he was so gentle and fun loving that if he got upset you would pay attention. I’m like that too, basically. I’m just like my dad with that. [00:13:43]

THERAPIST: How old was he when he moved here?

CLIENT: Where?

THERAPIST: Your Dad. To the US.

CLIENT: To Darien? Oh, the US? [pause] Twenties.

THERAPIST: Twenties? So he’d been working.

CLIENT: Oh yeah. Yeah yeah yeah. He was a soldier, and then – I don’t think he was working fulltime, because he was in the military or something, I don’t know. [00:14:11]

THERAPIST: So more just side jobs, military things -

CLIENT: He was already doing mechanic stuff.

THERAPIST: And your mom was around the same age when she moved here?

CLIENT: My mom’s 1940—oh, when she moved here? Yeah. Twenties.

THERAPIST: And had she been working there, then?

CLIENT: None of them other than my grandfather had worked.

THERAPIST: So she was just at home with her family?

CLIENT: In Assyria?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: No no, they were active, my mom’s a writer. If my mom and my aunt stayed in Assyria, one was going to be a big time opera singer and my mom was going to be a big writer. So they were very busy. They were active in university. They were in university, you know, so studying… [00:15:03]

THERAPIST: Okay so they were students.

CLIENT: Oh, yeah yeah yeah.

THERAPIST: And so there wasn’t the feeling that their careers were going to be blocked there, then, and they came to the US -

CLIENT: No. The thing there was, even though the leader was dead, I think the idea was [unintelligible 00:15:23], you know what I mean? if that happened here, even if the guy died, I think we’d be like “Yeah, this is not where we want to be.” That’s what it was.

THERAPIST: Survival.

CLIENT: Yeah. They talk about that openly, that if they’d stayed there, they were going to be… definitely very attractive women, and blablabla, all this shit. So. They already had lots of men after them. Assyria’s very – it’s a warm-blooded, men are very – think Europe. So they had, you know, my mom was engaged to the violin guy and all that, so yeah. Imagine a writer and the head violinist of the symphony. But who knows what would have happened, because look what happened when Assyria – when the government crumbled, that whole idea of like, poets are so important [scoffs] no one gives a shit. So who knows what would have happened. [00:16:40]

THERAPIST: And they met here?

CLIENT: Yup.

THERAPIST: Pretty soon after?

CLIENT: No, no, no. My dad came to North America in like, sixty-five, sixty-four? My mom was here in like, sixty-six. But my dad was in Halifax. And then my grandfather heard that they were here somewhere, and that they go way back to the Ottoman Empire somewhere, to historic Assyria. And my dad’s brother was closer to my grandfather’s age. Because my dad’s so much younger. So they reconnected, and they started playing backgammon all the time, just reconnected, like family ties. And that’s how my dad… That was like, sixty-nine. [00:17:47]

THERAPIST: And when you were in North Carolina, your dad – that’s when he was working at the gas station?

CLIENT: No, he owned a gas station here.

THERAPIST: What was he doing -

CLIENT: He was a foreman at a – from what I remember, it was a I remember the trucks. Allied, I think it said. Orange. There were trucks, and he was the foreman of the mechanics of the trucks or whatever.

THERAPIST: It kind of makes me wonder what that meant for them.

CLIENT: Going to North Carolina?

THERAPIST: No, just thinking about professions, and life events, and money, and he’s working as a foreman, or as a mechanic, she’s a – you moved there for her job, is that right?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: as a writer, what that meant between the two of them? It’s a very -

CLIENT: I’ve never known. Yeah, I don’t know. I mean, I know that it couldn’t have been that bad -

THERAPIST: I don’t even mean bad, I just -

CLIENT: Yeah -

THERAPIST: it could mean all different things to people.

CLIENT: Yeah. Because I have thought about it, that was my mom being a douche? Because she wanted me to do all these things, she married a fucking mechanic. [00:19:00]

THERAPIST: Or did he feel insecure?

CLIENT: Yeah. On some level, did he feel insecure? I don’t know. He never showed it, I never sensed that. He was so well-loved. And also he just carried himself in such a way, that -

THERAPIST: It wasn’t apparent on the outside.

CLIENT: No, no.

THERAPIST: And yet it’s also hard to imagine, there’s something – your mom is so powerful, and her insistence on your being a certain thing, if he’s hearing that, what that feels like, how that trickles into people.

CLIENT: That’s right. I don’t know, I don’t know.

THERAPIST: Like, would it have been alright for you to be a mechanic?

CLIENT: Yeah, I have no idea. I have no idea. I do remember there was once some talk about moving to Oregon and buying a gas station. He even went up there to do some research, and stuff like that, because his family was there, and he had some friends there who were like “We’ll totally help you to get started”. But he went, and he was kind of like “mmm.” He didn’t really like it. [00:20:03]

THERAPIST: Didn’t like it out in Oregon?

CLIENT: Oregon. Yeah. Yeah. I do remember my mom was open to it, I think. I think. I’m not sure. I definitely wasn’t. But I remember, it was something. But the thing is, the money – I mean, my grandfather too – it’s really on both sides. My grandfather also was – who knows. I think it’s just in our family.

THERAPIST: You mean your dad’s dad?

CLIENT: No no, my mom’s dad. He was just such a – you know, he really was depressed, I think. He had a lot of anger issues, and just coiled up. He’d obviously had a much harder life. My dad’s – incrementally less hard. But, you know, for my grandfather… So yeah, it was in all our families. My aunt, passed away, her and her husband had so many issues and a lot of it was money issues. Then my other aunt, whose husband was loaded, but wouldn’t treat her right, wouldn’t spend the money right on his family. No matter where we turned almost, there was this, kind of… [00:21:32]

THERAPIST: It can become so loaded with the symbolism of being up here, or down here, or…

CLIENT: No matter what it’s just associated with stress. It can’t just be like “Hey, you know what? Right now we don’t have any money. We’re figuring it out”. You know what I mean?

THERAPIST: And again, some of that is ordinary. It is stressful. [unintelligible]

CLIENT: That’s what I’m saying. That’s what I’m saying.

THERAPIST: how to pay the bills, it stresses people out. And yet, if it’s attached to your feeling, your core sense of yourself?

CLIENT: That’s what I’m saying.

THERAPIST: If you don’t have money, means you’re a bad person, or you’re lesser than -

CLIENT: Right, right.

THERAPIST: There’s a lot of that.

CLIENT: That’s what I’m trying to say.

THERAPIST: It makes those ordinary stresses even more powerful. [00:22:13]

CLIENT: That’s what I’m trying to say. Exactly. Yeah. That’s what it feels like to me now. It feels like I just have a lump. Or just a constant tightness. That’s all that is. I’m not them, so I try “everything’s going to be fine,”, but it’s there. It just sucks. [pause from 00:22:35 to 00:23:39] [sniffling sounds]

CLIENT: I mean, even for my uncle, right, that’s why I can see the context. That’s why he’s gotten a bit Republican, and down on – because he has money issues too. He’s still proving things. That’s all it is. That’s all he’s doing. He’s like that 15-year-old, 18-year-old kid who has immigrant parents. I mean, the original immigrant parents, not even my parents, you know what I mean? Who aren’t assimilated, don’t speak English – so he’s making up for all that.

THERAPIST: And even with a lot of money, he could still feel like it isn’t enough, or insecure, or…

CLIENT: That’s what I’m saying. Yeah. That’s why he has diabetes, and he’s like this, because he can’t just chill the fuck out and rest on his laurels a little bit. Whereas his wife, she doesn’t have that background. It’s not quite the same thing for her. She left her home when she was seventeen. There’s more of an “I did this” kind of thing. There isn’t a weird parental – there was a clean break, and her parents are fine over there. It just sucks to be apart. There isn’t like a, my parents, we all came here together, and I had to watch my parents struggle to live in America, and they were outsiders they don’t know English – there wasn’t that. So she has more of a sense of – it’s just not an issue for her as much, you know? Actually, not only is it not an issue, it’s a path. She’s chosen a path, and she’s succeeded. Like, the minute she got here, started studying psychology – it’s all she’s done in the United States, and she’s successful. Whereas we have more of a typical immigrant – all over the road, just trying to fucking get somewhere, mistakes. [00:25:57] [pause to 26:13] [sigh]

THERAPIST: That’s a big sigh.

CLIENT: Yeah, it’s like, all tight. [00:26:19] [pause to 00:27:27]

CLIENT: I saw a dream last night, that I was looking for my hotel room, I think it was room 19, and I couldn’t find it. It was kind of dark. It was in a rickety building or something, and I couldn’t find it. Then I found the woman who runs the hotel, no idea who she was, and I said “I can’t find it.” And I said “It’s literally driving me crazy, I can’t find this room.” She took me and showed it to me, and suddenly it was very different. It was this very modern, beautiful restaurant/bar thing. But my room was in the middle of the restaurant. And she was like “When the restaurant closes, the walls will come down to make the room.” It was really weird. [00:28:26]

THERAPIST: Thoughts?

CLIENT: The only thing I can think of is it’s that frustration of trying to get somewhere and I can’t figure out – but then, it was pleasant. It was a very nice restaurant. I have no idea why my room would be in the middle of the restaurant with no walls, but… In the dream all I kept thinking was, “What the fuck? When the restaurant opens, I’ve got to wake up, because the walls are going to come up.”[laughter] Strange. [00:29:14]

THERAPIST: So it’s not even really yours, it’s some temporary -

CLIENT: Yeah, that’s a good point, yeah, it’s temporary, yeah. And kind of public. Oh, that was the thing though. She was like, “This is one of our best rooms”. And I mean, in that way, it was. Because all the doors I was looking at, it was dark, and dingy, and the doors were kind of old.

THERAPIST: Of the other rooms you mean?

CLIENT: Of the other rooms. And I was looking for this 19, or whatever number I was looking for. And it was nice, clean, well lit. [Pause from 30:02 to 30:13] I think I woke up too, again, in a bit of a panic. I don’t know if that really happened, or it didn’t happen, but…

THERAPIST: How about 19?

CLIENT: No idea. I mean, my age, I guess? Around when my dad died?

THERAPIST: That’s what I was thinking. [pause from 00:30:36 to 00:30:50]

CLIENT: Maybe it was triggered by a lot of things, but yesterday we were looking for the piece of land that Tobias was looking at?

THERAPIST: That’s why you were there? To buy, he’s –

CLIENT: He has a pipe dream to buy a piece of land by a waterfront. So I guess every so often he’ll scour the Internet and like, go take a look at a place, or whatever. So we went, and we were looking for number 31. And it’s fucking wilderness. So it was pretty funny. But I don’t know if that maybe triggered, on some deep level, looking for something.

THERAPIST: Or the metaphor of looking for something in the wilderness.

CLIENT: Yeah, that has no walls. [laughter]

THERAPIST: Which I think is so similar to how you’ve described your experience, since 19, for a long time. Lost, trying to find your own space, your own mind again. [pause from 00:32:02 to 00:32:38]

THERAPIST: Or even trying to find your way into here, both public and private. Trying to find your own self. And maybe in this dream, how you’re feeling, feeling like you’ve lost it, a little bit, where is it? Where did it go? Now you’ve started at least, in the sessions CLIENT: Yeah, I’ve had a number of dreams. I just remembered another dream I’ve had, that of course I can’t completely remember, there have been so many vivid ones lately, but something about like, a flight, a flight, maybe Assyria, something.

THERAPIST: A flight to go there?

CLIENT: Go there, come from there, I don’t know, I don’t remember. But I think clearly there’s a lot of dreams about – I think that’s why a lot of them are anxiety dreams. It’s about both the thing I’m trying to get to, and about where I’m coming from. Deep stuff probably getting stirred up. [00:34:12]

THERAPIST: Let me put it slightly more positively than just being anxiety dreams. So many of them sound like, lately, like they’re dreams of transformation. Which has anxiety in it -

CLIENT: That’s true, that’s true.

THERAPIST: sometimes they emphasize not knowing, feeling lost, what’s next, where am I, what’s going to happen around the corner?

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, that’s true. I guess [unintelligible] because I very rarely – it’s rare that I would wake up feeling panic, and I really hate that.

THERAPIST: Sure. And transformation is terrifying for people.

CLIENT: That’s true, it’s true. That’s why I was saying, a lot of these dreams aren’t really scary, they’re not scary. [00:34:56]

THERAPIST: I’m thinking of your dreams, about the worms, are you becoming [ph? Brian]? And you said “yeah”. And then you woke up in a panic.

CLIENT: Right. Right.

THERAPIST: It’s both like, matter of fact – [crosstalk]

CLIENT: Yeah, that one’s really symbolic. [crosstalk]

THERAPIST: Right. Because in a way, still, who is that person, will he become, will he fail?

CLIENT: I mean, yeah, that’s one thing I try to remind myself now, when I feel like I can’t breathe, or I’m kind of whatever, feel physically wacky, I try to think of – it’s almost like an exorcism in a way. I think something is – because really the future is good. I think things will be alright. So there’s something I think, that’s what all these years have been. A process of trying to exorcise this – not necessarily a demon, but like, a past? Things that have been obstacles and just messed – not letting me be my own – have my own mind or have my own sense of self. So in that way, I try – maybe that’s why I’m not having full-blown panic or anxiety, and why I’m still completely doing things very well. It’s like a good transformation kind of thing, but maybe it’s just terrifying, or it’s kind of -

THERAPIST: Transformations are terrifying for people. You know, we’ve talked about – it’s so easy to be, like, do it the same. You know the same. You know how to be only hypochondriacal or paranoid. That’s familiar, it’s comforting, it’s how your whole family responds, it’s predictable. To not do that? To be breaking out, and finding, forging a new path? You don’t know what that’s like, or where that leads you. It’s so uncomfortable, in a way. [00:37:15]

CLIENT: Yeah. Last night when I got home from the thing I said hi to my mom, we sat there a little bit, she said, “So is everything okay” blah blah blah. We talked about talking to my uncle, this or that, she was like “I’m going to take“ This poor woman, she has like seven grand or something in something – IRA, I don’t know what it is – she’s like “I’m going to take $1000 or $2000 out of that, I’ll give that to you, that will at least get you whatever.” But, this was a trip for me, is that I found myself, I mean I was feeling the way I feel now, but I found myself going “You know, everything is going to be okay”. Like out loud. I was like “Everything is going to be fine.” I’m doing everything right. I’ve talked to enough people, they’re not just random friends or whatever, people that know what the fuck they’re talking about, who I trust. And besides that, I just trust myself. I’ve done my research.

THERAPIST: You’ve gotten to know yourself more.

CLIENT: Yeah, I’m not just sitting on my ass, I’m still looking for a job, I’m not looking for specific jobs, I’m trying to be open-minded. Just a job. An office job. Whatever. But nothing comes with no – not just hard work, but especially a business – you’ve got to have some cash – it’s as simple as that, it’s really not rocket science, there just needs to be a little bit of money. It’s not really a lot. It’s not a lot. So then she was saying, “So then, can you do it with, like, $5000?” But that’s the problem. I probably could. But that’s not the issue. Then that money’s going to be gone, and it’s not like I’m going to have, suddenly, thirty clients. And then we’re going to be back to square one. You’re still not going to have a dryer machine. So I was like, “We need a bigger solution, so we don’t keep having to have these day-to-day worries.” Then it becomes, yeah, it’s still a worry, because now we have debt that’s going to be added, but now it’s ours, it’s not feeling weird about your brother helping you, or having these ridiculous little debts, here and there. But what I’m trying to say, is, though, that was very new. To end the conversation like that. Not only that, it was new for me, not her. She’s been like that. My mom’s been pretty, “Everything’s going to be okay”. Yeah, she’s a mom. I think she sees that I’m just – and she’s worrying, she’s like “Everything’s going to be okay, don’t worry about it, don’t think too much”, blah blah blah. But it was the first time for me, to be like “Everything will be -” because normally I just get annoyed. Even when she’s telling me everything will be fine. It’s just that old dynamic. “You don’t know, everything’s not -” you know, I just feel… but last night I was like “Oh…everything will be fine, you know”. I think it was almost like, I was just like “I’m just going to start saying that”. [laughter] Just like, fake it til you make it. Or not fake it, but just, you know, I just decided to say it. [00:40:35] [pause to 00:40:57]

THERAPIST: Is there a network of life coaches online? Like an online professional society, or anything like that?

CLIENT: Yeah, there’s a couple of things on LinkedIn, you know those groups they have on LinkedIn? Yeah. Why?

THERAPIST: I just – that’s the part that I think is going to be hardest for you. So many people come out of this from graduate schools; they’re getting into this kind of field or program, where they have colleagues for support, for mentorship, as supervisors. That’s a lot of where – most people in my field at least get referrals from people who supervise them, or were colleagues in school, or something like that. That’s actually where it starts, so much more than advertising.

CLIENT: Any kind of advertising. I agree. I agree. I’ve been thinking about that. I think I’m holding back. It’s like what I was saying yesterday, I want to feel a little bit better or something, I don’t know. I think I’m going to reach out, maybe to some local life coaches, like “hey guys, what’s going on, do you have time for lunch, I’d love to take you out to lunch and talk”. You know, and then if somebody – [00:42:00]

THERAPIST: Start networking. [00:42:00]

CLIENT: Start networking.

THERAPIST: Or even, there isn’t an organization, I don’t know anything about life-coaching from this perspective, there isn’t a Connecticut association or anything like that?

CLIENT: There’s got to be. I haven’t found – there’s got to be, like, a branch, or something. Yeah. I’m sure there is. I’m sure there is. But I’m saying, I know people who know life coaches. That’s also another good way. A mutual friend. Because I could definitely use a mentor. I could definitely use someone who’s been doing this, who’s willing to, kind of – not take me under their wing, hopefully take me under their wing, but just kind of a sounding board, and, you know.

THERAPIST: Networking is one avenue of that, and a professional association is another one. They may have something that even has a monthly talk on some subject, where people gather and have coffee or something. People pay for supervision, in my field, at least. [00:42:58]

CLIENT: No, yeah. Coaches do too, yeah. Coaches sometimes pay for their own mentor coaches. But see, then again, cashish.

THERAPIST: Of course you need money.

CLIENT: But, in the meantime, there’s no reason you can’t just network. Because you never know. Someone could be really cool, and you just click, and they’re doing fine, they don’t necessarily need the money, they enjoy just kind of… you know. Because also, these things go both ways. They might refer people to you, but you might refer people to them, or whatever.

THERAPIST: Sure, of course, there’s something in it for them, too, if it’s a, you know, peer-level colleague instead of someone more senior. But even, whoever you connect with, you could start saying, “Is there an association? What do I need to know about how people network?” that kind of thing. Just pick their brain like that. Because you’re going to feel as if you’re so isolated, right now, and -

CLIENT: It’s not enough to, like, read books, and watch videos. Yeah, yeah, of course. You need to interact with people. That’s why, you know, I’ll probably start going to their – the building has these very informal – therapists just get together. Again, I just feel a little – I don’t want to be in there feeling like I can’t breathe or something. I just want to be a little more… [00:44:19]

THERAPIST: So take an Ativan and go. I think you’ll feel better if you just go.

CLIENT: Yeah, maybe.

THERAPIST: Get into it. Then you’re doing it instead of delaying.

CLIENT: That’s true, that’s true.

THERAPIST: And then maybe you take your first referral, in the next two weeks, because you went, you know what I mean?

CLIENT: Absolutely. You’re right, you’re right. It’s been – that, not so much, but I’ve been meaning to find some people, and e-mail them. Because I know myself. I could be – I mean. Yeah yeah yeah. Some of it’s just being shy, and feeling -

THERAPIST: I think it is.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: I think you’re doing fine right now. You may be feeling anxious, inside, but it doesn’t – it’s not apparent. You’ll pull it off.

CLIENT: I know that well about myself. I know. I’m a charmer. [00:45:00]

THERAPIST: So, tomorrow.

CLIENT: 2:20?

THERAPIST: 2:20.

CLIENT: Thanks, Claire. Have a good day.

THERAPIST: You too.

END TRANSCRIPT