TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: So, some good stuff going on, but now I’m like I need to figure out what I’m doing kind of. So I’ve been kind of keeping tabs on the university over in Assyria. Remember for a while it was kind of like I brought that up.

THERAPIST: Yes.

CLIENT: So they just recently created a department. It’s not really a literature department, but it is a…I think it’s called English and Communication; something like that. It’s a B.A. whereas before they just had courses that were more like ESL type things. And the woman that’s the Chair is the woman I had spoken to from London when I was seriously thinking…but at the time I don’t know what her position was, but now she is the Chair of this thing.

So I wrote to her like two days ago and she got like right back to me. She was like yeah, there are definitely opportunities to teach course…blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It’s like, you know, she’s like I can send you some of the course descriptions, whatever. She’s like, you know, they start September and January.

So I don’t know. So that was one thing that happened yesterday. The other thing was a friend of mine is coming from San Diego to some conference called the Psychology and Other Institute.

[01:32]

THERAPIST: It’s the [inaudible – 01:33] other conference. That’s where I was supposed to have been at yesterday.

CLIENT: No shit! But yeah, so she’s coming to go to that. She’s a little loopy. She’s one of those people. I don’t know; whatever. But she’s cool. She’s pretty. Whatever.

But so she’s like you should look…she doesn’t even know what I’m really doing with all this stuff, but she’s like…I was like well. When she told me the title I was like that sounds great. So she sent me the link and I was like wait a minute; why haven’t I looked in to it? I totally forgot about it. Like whether they have a psychology whatever whatever.

Not only to they have it, but it might be the best fit because they have it broken down. They have a mental health – I forget what it’s like – but they have three components. So you can do mental health counseling and trauma, mental health counseling and like holistic, and one other one. Maybe that’s just mental health counseling. I don’t know what it is, but…

And even though I hate the word “holistic.” It just makes me think of hippies and shit. But their description of it, at least, I like the idea that it also addresses spiritual; like it kind of tries to be a little more than just, you know.

I mean I looked at the trauma one too, but that one, I can’t. I’m not going to work in a prison.

[03:00]

THERAPIST: It can be very traumatizing.

CLIENT: Yeah. And it’s just heavy. I’m fascinated…I’m sorry.

THERAPIST: Rape crisis.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And also I figured if I were to do something like that, you could still, of course, study trauma.

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: So there’s that, which looked to me…and I love that they have an institute. They have some institute called Psychology and other something. I don’t know. There was the website for the conference, but there’s also an institute that they have. That’s fucking awesome.

So yeah. So yeah. I don’t know what to…I feel like it would be very rash to move to Assyria in three months, you know what I mean. Although I’m sure some of my friends are going to be like but why? So just go for a semester and teach and come back, you know. It’s like, well…so yeah, I don’t know.

[03:51]

THERAPIST: How about forget what your friends think. What do you think?

CLIENT: I think what I would probably tell her is can we plan; like can we kind of continue with this dialogue and make a concrete plan for the fall, you know.

THERAPIST: And how do you arrive at that? I hear that that would be a suggestion about what to do, but what…what’s your thinking in doing it, not doing it, when to do it?

CLIENT: How can you not do it in a way? I mean I want to go to Assyria. It’s a…I’ve always said I would go if there was a purpose to go. You’d be making money. It’s the university. They’re going to pay you in dollars, you know. It ties in to like maybe you meet an Assyrian girl, you know what I mean. As a secondary kind of thing. It’s fucking Assyria. That way you get that out of your system. You know what, I even went to the source and it’s just not for me. Now, it just is what it is. You know.

I don’t know. Then the question is yeah, but if you started a business, what do you do? You take a break from your business to like, you know? I don’t know.

[05:09]

THERAPIST: Business? Starting a business or starting school?

CLIENT: That too. Yeah, well the school; you know how I am. I was even like fuck that. I’ll just get in to the program and I’ll take leave for…

THERAPIST: Leave.

CLIENT: Yeah, I’ll be like hey you know what, I just got an opportunity to teach at a university. I think I’m going to take that for a semester. I’ll figure out a way if I can do shit online; take one course online or, you know.

The other thing I love about them is they have deadlines, but they’re not fixed. So like we suggest you get it done by this time, but it’s rolling admission.

The only other thing is there is something I’ve never heard of that I think no matter what you’ve done before, you’ve got to take it. It’s called the Miller Analogy Test or something. I read about it and they were like don’t even; you can’t even really study for it. It consumes like…I don’t know what the fuck, but, I was like yeah.

[05:59]

THERAPIST: It’s just analogies. Increasingly complex analogies.

CLIENT: Okay. Alright, well. I’m not going to worry about it too much. It’s just I really hate standardized tests. But, yeah.

So I don’t know. I mean these are all good things. I just want to make sure I’m…

THERAPIST: They’re all possibilities. You can see through to the back of the line.

CLIENT: Yeah, the problem is I’d like to do all of them. You know what I mean. I don’t want to not go to Assyria because I’m a fucking life coach. Like that’s, you know what I mean? That’s a pretty good opportunity.

THERAPIST: And yet it’s also tricky to think about putting it off for a year, in a way. What if you get a …my clients are gone by then?

CLIENT: That’s a good point. Yeah.

THERAPIST: It’s hard to say I’m going to leave my practice and leave here.

CLIENT: Right. Aw fuck me.

THERAPIST: It’s not that it’s not done; I’m just…I’m not even telling you not to do it. Just sort of thinking through what would that actually feel like if you had…what if you had ten regular clients who…

[07:03]

CLIENT: Right, right, right. I mean you could be like, you know, for four months, five months, I need to do our sessions by Skype or whatever, you know. Not to mention there’s rent here, which is why January wouldn’t make…also, January is just too fast. I feel like that’s making a decision pretty quickly. By next September, the lease would be up. So by then I would already know. It’s like well it’s worth keeping or it’s, you know, whatever.

I thought you meant the other way around. What if I don’t go to Assyria until September, but by that point they start filling, you know; they fill these slots. There are other people that want to be there. Things change.

THERAPIST: Yeah, that side too. It’s all worth thinking about.

[07:56]

CLIENT: Yeah, she’s a good…obviously she would like me to come there. She’s responsive, you know. But I can’t…

THERAPIST: She actually needs somebody now.

CLIENT: I can’t ask her to just hold. Probably she’s going to say well I can’t guarantee anything for September, but let’s just keep, you know. That’s probably the way to go because then the idea would be to just…there’s always probably going to be some opportunity there, it sounds like. You know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Uh huh.

CLIENT: And I might even be more…I mean the more of this stuff I’m doing, it makes me more of a desirable type. I’m adding to my, you know. I don’t know. But yeah.

The thing with this is it’s not online and I also don’t know…I’m assuming they’ll let you go part-time – it’s Jolene; I’m assuming they’ll let you go part-time or something. But yeah, I don’t know.

But yeah, I was psyched. I mean I like the idea of UConn online this and that, but this is right here and I just love that it’s more…it feels like it’s more thought out to me, you know.

Not a huge faculty, but…

[09:17]

THERAPIST: Something online can be very risky territory in commitment and focus and attentional issues. Anywhere where they [inaudible – 09:27] for example, you’re in that spectrum. You’re out of ideas when you’re online.

CLIENT: That’s right, that’s right. Yeah. I haven’t read about that. Some of them even talk about that. They’re like look; you know this is great, but it’s school and you’ve got to be…

THERAPIST: You have to be in person; have the structure of it an accountability.

CLIENT: Yeah. So yeah, I’m going to contact them. There’s one professor who deals with trauma, cultural identity, this and that. So I’m going to, I think, e-mail him and see if, you know, we can talk or whatever. I don’t know. Pretty psyched.

And the thing is I feel like, I don’t know why. Maybe I shouldn’t feel this confident, but I feel like how can I not get in in a way? You know what I mean? I just feel like with my background, I feel like I’d be a dream student for them.

THERAPIST: Sure. Sure. I’m sure they’d love to have you.

[10:20]

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. So.

THERAPIST: And these programs are also alternative degrees.

CLIENT: At Jolene?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah, they’re also the LMHC or whatever. Oh yeah. I made sure. Yeah. The one I’m thinking of is…I think it’s like 60 credits plus a training; like a, what do you call it?

THERAPIST: Clinical, practicum?

CLIENT: Yeah, you’ve got to…I forget what they call it, but yeah, you have to….

THERAPIST: An internship?

CLIENT: Not an internship, but I think it’s training or something. You have to be working somewhere doing something. Yeah. Which that seems to be the norm if you’re going to…yeah. So I don’t know.

It’s a tough one. I think the compromise, actually – I just thought of this – the compromise could be to just go visit Assyria. Do you know what I mean? Go meet with the lady, with Vivian, and just kind of, you know, which also shows how serious if I’m fucking there in person. But also just get a feel, you know.

[11:37]

THERAPIST: This may seem obvious, but what? Why go to Assyria? I know that seems obvious. But…?

CLIENT: I feel a draw to go. You know, I’ve never felt that. I’ve always been like yeah, one day, whatever. But now I feel like a serious hold.

THERAPIST: And it feels important enough to interrupt the pull towards a professional career?

CLIENT: Well yeah, but going there is also a professional. I’m a writer. I’m a literature guy. So in a way that’s…because in the back of my mind what if I went there and it was awesome. I’m getting paid in dollars and I’m also getting in on the ground floor in to a university in the English Department. What if they, you know, come up with create a course? I mean, you know.

THERAPIST: So in a way you’re thinking about that as even a potential for a different like the writing career path?

CLIENT: I just don’t know. I mean I still want to do this. That’s what I’m trying to say. I’m just trying to figure it out. I think this is…I really hit on something here that feels really good. You know what I mean?

[12:42]

THERAPIST: And this maybe too. So I’m just trying to understand how you’re thinking about is that more just something wanting to get to Assyria or meeting an Assyrian girl, or is this feeling like no; it’s still what if I can be on the faculty there in a permanent way?

CLIENT: Yeah, well it feels like all those things. I mean I’m killing all these birds with one stone, right. I’ll go check it out, visit. If nothing else, I mean I’ve lived in London. What’s three/four months in Assyria? Are you kidding? I’m sure it’s going to be amazing. Whatever downsides there might be to Assyria, I know enough people there. I speak fluently. It’s Assyria. I mean it’s probably fucking going to be amazing. You know.

So you know, I don’t know. So yeah, I feel like it’s…even for my own writing, I have a feeling if I were there something, you know just like it happened in London, you know what I mean.

THERAPIST: You have inspiration.

CLIENT: Yeah, you know. So you know, I don’t know.

THERAPIST: Exciting.

[13:50]

CLIENT: Yeah it is. I think I just need to feel it out and just, you know. I don’t know.

THERAPIST: And really think through if you did this, what would that be like? What would you be giving up? If you do this, what would that be like? What would you be giving up?

CLIENT: Absolutely. And that’s the thing. I think January, even if she were to say come here; teach whatever you want, whatever. That’s really soon. If I had nothing else going on, that’s a great opportunity. You know what I mean? Rent out my apartment, which would be great for my mom. And just go. That’s fine. But this feels right. You know, this feels right here. But that feels right too in terms of the big picture.

Again, my gut is telling me and my new healthy gut is telling me that I know the dean, my buddy is the Dean of the Engineering, either the Engineering or the like Sciences, whatever. And then another guy I know, not to well, but I know him, is the Dean of the Liberal Arts. And now this woman is someone who I at…

THERAPIST: At this university? [15:15]

CLIENT: At the university. So I mean I don’t know. I feel like there would always be a way, you know. If nothing else I could create a course. I could whatever. It seems like…and yeah, I’m sure there are other people that would also like to go there and teach, but it’s not like it’s Paris, you know what I mean. I doubt that there a million people trying to knock down the doors to move to Assyria.

So that whatever pool of people there are, there will always be room, with my credentials and stuff, that, yeah.

THERAPIST: So in which case does it become more about when is it work for you and for your life?

[15:53]

CLIENT: Yeah, exactly. That’s what I was saying, maybe September that gives me enough time to sort some things out here. Get started with this thing. Blah, blah, blah. Maybe have some clients and see what that’s all about and get that going. And then take it from there. We’ll see.

THERAPIST: It doesn’t sound like this feels as much about in the past getting excited when someone offers you this kind of position where you feel like you have to take it just because they offered it.

CLIENT: No, finally all these things feel like, well, that’s what should be happening. I mean…

THERAPIST: Well that’s because it’s something you want.

CLIENT: Something I want. Yeah, exactly.

THERAPIST: Exactly.

CLIENT: I don’t mean like I deserve it; I just mean you know that I don’t have that thing anymore where I don’t feel a…I don’t see the reality of like, well yeah; I mean I’m very qualified to teach there. It’s not like I deserve it or I’m so amazing. But that’s what happens. You publish a book. You’re in grad school for the literature. You have a lot of teaching experience. You’re a good guy. You do all these different things. You’re on the BBC. Then you can teach at a university. That’s how these things go, you know. You know what I mean? So it doesn’t feel…in the past I think I had like this little boy reaction. It was like the little kid in me. It’s like, “See, people like me.” And you know. That was the problem with Edinburgh. Instead of taking that as a professional, like I’ll go, you know, this is a big step for me professionally, blah, blah, blah, you know. It became like this completely immature stunted, you know. So.

[17:54]

But I do think there’s something weird going on with, again, with the girl situation. Like not weird; I think healthy. But it’s like on the one hand, my sex drive is still super high, but now I notice it’s not…I’m able to cut it off at the…like before it was like well, I need to be with somebody, you know what I mean, and I would see it through. Now, I don’t need to do that. You know what I mean.

THERAPIST: Need to be with someone, meaning have sex?

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Is that what you mean? I didn’t know if you meant a relationship or just have something…

CLIENT: Pretty much sex. A relationship would be the excuse really. But really it was like blurred, you know. But now it’s like, I don’t know. It’s like if it’s going to be the real thing, that would be…

So here’s another thing that’s not entered the equation. It’s minor, but it’s still something. On Okay Stupid, right, this is a small fucking town. And Darien chicks, I’ve never been a big fan of Darien. You know, I think I’m more of a San Diego or like a cosmopolitan type. That’s what I want. Darien is college girls that end up staying here. They’re kind of artsy, whatever.

So what’s ended up happening now is in my searches, all these San Diego girls keep popping up. And when you go down that, it’s like a fucking rabbit hole. I mean that’s…I mean it’s San Diego. I mean just one girl after the other and they’re actually interesting and smart and the right kind of eclectic that I like. You know. What’s my point?

Oh, so when I look at these girls, it’s funny. Like I don’t think of it. Yeah, they’re super beautiful, but it’s not really a…it is sexual, but it’s not anymore. You know. That’s…she’s just; I just like all the qualities here. You know what I mean. She’s a writer. She works; she has some interesting jobs somewhere. She’s traveled. She just seems like an interesting person. She’s also fashionable. You know, it’s San Diego. You know what I mean. It just is what it is. You know.

[20:54]

So I’m still not sure what my point is, but I think the point is that I feel like I’m looking at these girls differently now, even online. Whereas basically they’re being objectified. Everybody is when you’re on there. But it’s become more of a like, yeah, it would be cool to hang out with this person. This is the kind of person I want in my life, you know what I mean? Does that make sense?

THERAPIST: You’re saying even if it’s the same person, the exactly the same…

[21:34]

CLIENT: Exactly like Samantha or like Michelle. It’s not someone like I just…it’s like I need to put her on my mantel piece and so people can see that I’m with this amazing…subconsciously I’m sure that’s a lot of what was going on. “See I’m attractive.” This girl, you know what I mean.

Now it’s more like no; as long as the girl is not loopy, they’re very pretty and they’re also super interesting and…I mean in a weird way it’s exactly like Jolene. It’s like saying, no. I’m a certain kind of guy and this is the kind of girl that I think I’d get on with. It’s not like I’m not great or lesser; that’s my aesthetic. That’s my whatever, you know what I mean.

So in a way, maybe that’s why Assyria. I’m like what am I…I’m starting to feel pulled, you know what I mean. I’m like I think I’ve got to go San Diego to meet like an interesting girl that’s worth; that’s really going to get me excited about, you know…

Or like all the other interesting Assyrian girls are all in San Francisco I don’t want to go there. You know. I know I could find one if I went there, but I know San Francisco They don’t really want to move. People that love San Francisco don’t. They might come here for three or four years, but they’re Oregonians. That’s their thing. And that’s fine. But like I don’t want to get…does that make sense what I’m saying?

THERAPIST: What made you pause just now?

[23:08]

CLIENT: Well I try and…does it make sense? Like what if…

THERAPIST: That you don’t want to get…what’s the end of that?

CLIENT: Well does it make…does any of this make sense that I’m even giving it so much like thought?

THERAPIST: Absolutely.

CLIENT: It does, right? Yeah.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I mean it’s like anyone who’s looking for someone to be serious with, you start getting strategic about it.

THERAPIST: What I also hear you saying, there are so many things you’re saying – that for one, just instead of just being a trophy on a mantel, it’s more of a whole person you’re looking for with interests, with a mind. But also sort of beginning to feel like I’m drawn to this person; that’s in me too.

CLIENT: Right, exactly.

THERAPIST: Like that being drawn to psychology. It’s actually; it’s because it’s what interests you. They would want you because you’re interested in that.

[24:05]

CLIENT: It’s because in the past there’s that disconnect where I’m – I mean I hate the word “hipster” because it doesn’t mean anything anymore, but whatever you want to call it, Indy Mindy, whatever the fuck you want to call it, I am that guy. And yet I would go places and feel like some of these other people are more that, you know what I mean, than me. I’m somehow not a poser, but like I’m like the B grade quality and they’re the A grade quality. You know, that was the feeling. You know what I mean. And I don’t feel that anymore. You know. Now it’s almost the opposite. I look at them and I’m like ah; it’s some sadness here. Like you know like you start seeing through things once you don’t put them up here. You’re like…or they’re very cool people, whatever. But either way, you just realize, hmm, you’re people. Whatever.

THERAPIST: What is hipster really mean to you when you say that? I know it’s everybody it means different things these days.

CLIENT: Well originally it meant, for me, it meant posers. If you have to use the word “hipster,” then you’re not a hipster, right? So to me it meant like people that…like to me the typical hipster is the kind of like, they’re making money actually. They’re not; they’re not part of some like subculture or counter. They probably have a pretty good job, but you know, they dress a certain way. They have a tattoo. You know what I’m saying. They’re totally part of the mainstream culture, but just because they wear these glasses or they have one tattoo or because they listen to Death Cab for Cutie, they’re hipsters. You know.

[25:39]

But now that doesn’t even make sense anymore. Now it’s I think those words don’t, you know, I don’t know. Like now it’s so…like yeah; I’m a hipster I guess. What does that mean anymore? I guess it’s just an “I don’t know.” I always tell my friends I think it’s just a word just like politically correct was a word that the Right made up so now people like us, you start feeling like a…it’s like wait, I’m not trying to be politically correct here. Anytime you want to say something substantive, you had to cut yourself down and like I’m not trying to be politically correct. That’s like such an insidious way to water down people from really making strong points, you know what I mean.

I feel like hipster is like a non-important version of that. It’s like a way to lump…it’s like what does that fucking mean really. I mean, am I a hipster? Yeah, I guess so. But okay. It’s like are you a yuppie? I don’t know. You know what I mean? Like what does any of that mean? I just think it’s a way to write articles in magazines and all that. So basically it doesn’t mean anything to me anymore. It used to.

[26:52]

THERAPIST: Anymore. That’s what sounds like it’s…it used to sound like it meant a lot.

CLIENT: Well because it wasn’t that. I felt like there was a time when…I mean India has not been a subculture for so long, but still there was a…I think those of us in my age group, we’re still holding on to like, well wait a minute. No we got made fun of in high school because of this. And now my boss has a tattoo and talks about, I don’t know, going to Burning Man or whatever. Like you know which I never liked that to begin with.

But you know like these people are starting to…”I went to this speak easy. It’s this bar without a sign.” Shut the fuck up! Like you know those things don’t mean anything to people that all their lives they have been engaged with things that they were either made fun of or they did alone, or they did to escape from these douche bags, and now these douche bags are commodifying all that shit.

So the word doesn’t mean anything anymore. You know, so it’s kind of sad in a way. Like really there’s nothing. I don’t know what…I think only insane people now are some kind of subculture. There is no subculture. Everything is immediately on Slate.com. You know, so it doesn’t…I feel bad for kids now. It’s like I don’t know what they’re supposed to be rebelling. How are they supposed to rebel? Their moms have tattoos and their dads take them to, you know, Lollapalooza. You know.

[28:32]

THERAPIST: They’ll be coming [inaudible28:34].

CLIENT: Yeah, basically. No it is. It’s true in a way. There’s a great article in the Financial Times about global literature. It’s so fucking good. I’ve been trying to articulate this for a long time. This person nailed it. This is like, the Japanese guy, Murikami, Rushdie; these guys are like, what is this literature, really? Like what? They don’t write, really, about the problems and like…basically it’s like this watered down literature that anyone, anywhere can read and feel like, oh, Japan. You know. But really, what does that fucking mean? You’re in your Cape House and you feel like some kind of connection to some cultures. You know.

So it was a really good article about how that’s all everything is now. And the same thing with yuppie, muppie; we’re all whatever we are now. We’re just basically consumers that one day I can be your hipster. The next day I can go to a Board meeting. You know. So, anyway, I don’t know what all this means, but…what was I saying? Oh, the chicks in San Diego. Yeah.

THERAPIST: I mean I think one of the things that mean that deeper levels have used looking for…what you’re looking for? Who are you? What is your identity?

[29:54]

CLIENT: Yeah, and also you know the thing is trusting yourself. I mean my definition of hipster still exists, you know what I mean. That fucking bar, this new one; what the hell is it called? B Hotel. Remember I was telling you my friend played jazz there and I went? Those are hipsters to me. You know they’re slightly older dudes that have a lot of fucking money. They bought this Bee hive people and all that. What are they? They’re really just douche business guys who are smart. They’re savvy. They know that wait; if I just throw on those glasses and this kind of shirt and work out a little bit and have some book…trust me, they...

When I was at the bar, the owner, one of the owners and some other dude were examining pictures of chicks on Facebook. And the chicks were totally these young, again, like these kind of hipster, but really, these guys are rich and they’re, you know, there’s something going. There’s a power thing going on there. And they’re like looking at them. They’re being douche bags; frat boy douche bags. Right. But they’re doing it in the guise of not being frat boy douche bags. To me, that is a hipster.

Or a chick that is a chick version of that. You know that I mean. They work in advertising. They make shit load of money. But you know, they like to go to some dive bar that has the best whatever whatever and they play pool there or something, you know. It’s this mixing of highbrow and lowbrow thinking that that somehow makes you…

[31:35]

THERAPIST: It still a façade.

CLIENT: Exactly. In the past, it did mean something. Because in the past, if you were an account executive and you went to the model to play pool, that was weird. Because you know what, there were no other people like you there. You really went for whatever reason. You know, there are alcoholics and I mean, that was a real dive bar; not a trendy dive bar.

Now, this mixture is just like, well you’re just…that doesn’t mean anything. What other people like you go to that dive bar too. So or they go to the dive bar next door. So what? You’re not proving anything to me. That doesn’t mean anything to me. You might as well go to Fuddruckers. I don’t fucking care, you know.

So, I don’t know. But it’s your own ability to be able to suss that out. Right. Because you realize well I’m like that too. Right. I mean I do go to dive bars. So what sets me apart? Well what sets me apart is I’m not doing it for any reason other than I’ve always done it.

[32:37]

I did go to those bars where there were fights and I had a little friend named Louise who showed up at the bar bleeding one day for no reason. But playing pool. The next thing we know there’s like a pool of blood by the pool table. That’s, you know what I mean. And I’m not proud of that. I’m just saying, you know, it was neither this or that. That’s just what I did. You know what I mean. I’m kind of not even really proud of it. I was probably drinking too much and who knows. You know, like I was there too often, you know. But you know what I’m saying.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: So I don’t need to put on my profile, “I can dress up in a suit and I can also have a high life.” That’s what a lot of these profiles have this like, “The girls can have champagne, but they can also throw on jeans and go to the…” Enough. You know.

It’s people just trying to…it’s branding. You know, it’s branding. That’s why Assyria. See, that’s why. I’m sure they have a lot of fucking problems. This cluster fuck hasn’t reached Assyria yet. It will. You know it’s going to get there. But…

[33:53]

THERAPIST: You know you grew up in a family that was all about the façade to an extreme degree. So I think part of their, even the ways that hipster has been, it becomes another category that is…it’s a rebellious one and so it expresses a form of identity that didn’t have a place in your family that gets to be loud out there. And yet I think what I hear you saying now is like now it’s more about if that’s doing that because I like it. It becomes even more yours instead of being because it’s a rebelling against something, which is very different. To find yourself; to go to the bar because you want to be at the bar to drink the champagne if you want to drink the champagne, to drink the beer if you want to drink the beer.

CLIENT: What do you mean? Oh, so you mean that like before maybe I wasn’t doing it because I wanted to do it?

THERAPIST: I think you were all along.

CLIENT: Yeah, because I definitely was.

[34:52]

THERAPIST: No. My point is that you were, but I think it wasn’t always clear that you were. In other words, there has been some safety in facades. It’s a different form of façade, you know. It sounds like…

CLIENT: Hmm, see to me it’s almost the opposite. I feel like that was never a façade. I always felt like me when I was like writing on my jeans and cutting my hair weird. That felt like home to me. The façade was dealing with these fucking idiots. That was the façade.

THERAPIST: And that becomes a façade how? Their façade?

CLIENT: Because I have to deal with them in a way that’s not me. I can’t call them racist, because I don’t want to fight. I have to, you know what I mean. I have to constantly navigate their bullshit. You know. Whereas then, when I’d be alone, that was…that felt so…and that’s what I’m trying to say. People like me, that’s why it’s a matter of like fuck you a little bit because that was so personal to people like me. And I was like I’m not cutting my hair because it looks cooler; it just feels right to me. And I don’t give a shit if people are going to make fun of me, or all that stuff. It wasn’t about…Urban Outfitters wasn’t selling ripped jeans with writing on them or whatever. That were kids doing that, you know. Or the skinny tie. That was way before people…so that felt like home for people like me. It felt like wow; I can really let my guard down. And yeah, it is kind of like a fuck you, but it’s like from the heart. It’s not like a…it’s not like a fuck you I’m just going to, again. Or, you know, it’s like these are my boundaries. This is my little world and you know.

[36:39]

THERAPIST: So in which case the difference now is about finding yourself, who you are, all day long.

CLIENT: Right, right.

THERAPIST: Instead of like I can go to the bar and find it because I have a home there, but I have to be a different person at home.

CLIENT: Right, right.

THERAPIST: How do you…?

CLIENT: The difference is also that it’s not some kind of badge of honor. You’re just a person. So yeah; can I go to a Board meeting? Big fucking deal. Of course I can go to a Board meeting. Can I go to…? What are we in like Africa? That’s not something to even bring up to me. You know, that’s the issue. To me it’s like the minute someone has to say that shit…

THERAPIST: It’s already about them putting on a façade.

CLIENT: Exactly. It’s not about hipster or not hipster; it’s about douche baggery. You know, it’s like you’re just being a douche. Like I don’t; don’t put pictures of yourself doing Yoga. Like I don’t give a fuck. Like what is that supposed to mean to me? You try to stay fit so you’re mindful or something? Like people just can’t chill out. I’m just like; you know what, like I don’t need a list of the things that make me either cool or unique. There are a million people like you doing those exact same things. So you know. But…

[37:59]

THERAPIST: To be continued.

CLIENT: Okay. Wednesday at 1:00? We’re good. Thanks. Have a great weekend.

END TRANSCRIPT