TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: I just took some Benadryl, so I’m a little…I feel a little loopy. I’ve never really taken Benadryl before.

THERAPIST: It makes people sleepy.

CLIENT: Wow, it’s pretty awesome. Damn. Now I get why some people take it to sleep. Last night I had like a…I started feeling really itchy and I kind of have like a little bit of a rash like on my waist. It’s not awful, but it’s…so I figured, you know.

THERAPIST: You didn’t take any last night?

CLIENT: I didn’t have any. And I’m also not that quick to take something. I just wanted to see, you know.

Again, wow. This is awesome. A few of my friends who…I mean I guess this is what I should do; friends who have trouble sleeping take a Benadryl.

THERAPIST: Yeah, it’s very common. People use it as a sleep aid.

CLIENT: That’s crazy.

THERAPIST: Yeah, right.

[00:59]

CLIENT: So, there’s a lot going on. I’ve been so out of it. So my mom and I talked to my uncle yesterday to get his feedback on stuff, whatever. We’re going to do the reverse mortgage. My uncle can’t co-sign because of his wife. He just can’t do it. So my idea; I’m quite nervous about a reverse mortgage, but my idea is if you’re going to do it, like just go for it and do it right. So if we’re able to get a pretty large chunk of money from the house, what I’m going to do is take care of some debts, this and that, whatever. But then buy like a condo. Like almost just all in cash; I mean something very affordable, $250K, $240K, in that range, which you can find. Like a one bedroom condo. Buy it and either move in to it and rent out my floor, which would go for like $1,000, you know. Or fix it up a little bit…basically flip it. You know, immediately turn around and make a little bit of money and then do something with that money. I don’t know.

[02:35]

But it’s a lot, you know. Because the thing with reverse mortgages is, I mean, the amazing part is there are no payments until my mom, one day is not around or whatever. Or unless she leaves the property. But one day it’ll be all due. I’ll have to pay that all as soon as she doesn’t live there or she passes away. And that’s pretty; that would be like $550,000, you know.

Now, my thinking is worst comes to worst comes to worst comes to worst, I mean our house is worth way more than that. But still, that’s pretty daunting. I mean, you know. But there is just no choice. Right now, there’s no choice to do anything else. [Pause.]

I am so sorry. I shouldn’t have taken this before I came here. Wow. Fucking Benadryl. Who knew? Jesus Christ. It’s kind of not good in a way. It’s like pretty intense. How do people take this shit?

[04:18]

THERAPIST: Most people wouldn’t take it during the daytime.

CLIENT: Oh. Good to know.

THERAPIST: [Laughs.] No it’s just…

CLIENT: I mean it does work. I’m not itchy anymore.

THERAPIST: Yeah, you do get immune to that, of course.

CLIENT: Wow.

THERAPIST: If you could hold off and take it at night, it would probably be better for you.

CLIENT: It’s really good to know. I took it an hour ago and suddenly it just kicked right in. Wow.

Yeah, so I don’t know. This thing’s got to get resolved. I can’t concentrate. I’m completely scatter brained. Who knows why? Maybe I got itchy from being stressed. I didn’t do anything different yesterday, you know. [Pause.]

THERAPIST: Were you there for the conversation with your uncle?

CLIENT: Oh yeah.

THERAPIST: You were. Is he familiar with reverse mortgages?

[05:23]

CLIENT: He’s heard of them, but he wasn’t that familiar. My uncle has gotten pretty conservative with…I mean not just politically, but he’s like, you know, it’s about cash flow. That’s a big chunk of money, but it can go fast. You know, so it’s about making sure there is also a stream of revenue, you know. And see the thing…I mean, I was very honest. I was like yeah, that’s all great, but the fact is we are in kind of a desperate…we’re not in the situation where we’re going to lose our house, but we are in a situation where, literally, we’re just spinning tires in mud, plugging holes, getting by. That’s, you know, of course it’s about revenue. No kidding. I’m doing the best I can to get a job. He wasn’t saying it in like a bad way; he was just saying, you know, this is your one house. That’s your one chunk; I mean that’s a big deal. You know.

It’s like on the other hand, it makes total sense. We live in Darien. Chances are very very unlikely if you buy a condo in one of these nice areas that you’re going to…he’s like at the worst, worst, worst, you might have to sit on it for a while in case things dip a little bit or whatever. He’s like we just keep seeing, right, over and over and over no matter what, the prices just keep increasing over time. I mean basically he agreed at some point. I mean there is no alternative. There is no alternative. We can’t get an equity loan. He can’t co-sign. It’s just is what it is. You know.

[07:13]

THERAPIST: What about the option of condo’ing all three units and selling them?

CLIENT: The thing with that is I did think about…

THERAPIST: You’ve raised that before.

CLIENT: Yeah, the thing about that is even when I was raising that issue, I was concerned a little bit about, you know, those can be nightmarish situations where you only have three…yeah, usually condos work when there are a lot of condos. That way the lunatics and the very lackadaisical people are balanced by the majority of rational people. You know what I mean.

I’m worried that if someone came in there and they’re douche bags – because people hide that shit really well. Next thing you know your neighbor is suddenly a freak. Then, you know, Jesus Christ, that’s tough. You know then we’d be really in a bind.

I guess one thing I could do is suggest it to our tenant. She’s great. I could be like, you know; then my mom’s like yeah, but then you’re basically showing your hand and she could freak out and feel like she’s…you know. But yeah, I thought of that too.

But in a way, isn’t it really the same thing, right? So we’d pay off our mortgage. We wouldn’t really have that much left over. Maybe $100 grand or whatever, which is great. But not to buy; not a huge down payment to buy something, right? We’d still have whatever debts we have, so that money could go towards those. But then really what’s left? Okay yeah, there’s no mortgage, but there is no revenue still. And we’ve not bought another property to have more equity.

THERAPIST: But I thought the point was to get a chunk of change so that you could get your business off the ground and then there is a revenue stream. Do you know what I mean?

[09:00]

CLIENT: Well it is, but I think what happened was because this seems to be the only option…the condo; my mom just doesn’t…she’s too wishy washy about that. She gets kind of like, “Oh yeah,” and then she keeps back tracking on that, and I can’t do anything if she doesn’t agree to do it with that.

With this, the reason that this other idea has come up is because, like I said, if that opportunity is there, not just to take $100 grand or whatever, then that’s what I’ve always wanted to do was to buy another property. So then we could do everything. I could get my business going. I could pay off some debts. I could blah, blah, blah.

And also, I don’t mean we’re going to rush in to anything. If they’re going to give us that much, you just take whatever, $250K, $220K whatever and you just forget about that. Just like I wanted her to do when she didn’t do it.

The things I’m trying to capitalize on in my situation, right. I know about real estate. My uncle knows everything about real estate. You know, we just bide our time. We talk to a broker; we say look, when the time comes, here’s my number. I want to pay cash. Blah, blah, blah, blah. You know what I mean. Otherwise, you’re right. If it was just an equity loan, that’s exactly what we were going to do. Pay off some debts, business, peace of mind. Yeah. No absolutely. And we could still do that with a reverse mortgage. I just feel like it’s a pretty; it’s not a good deal for elderly people who aren’t going to do much with that money except just live on it. Of course, then they have to sell the house when that person is no longer; basically the bank gets your house.

[10:42]

This is a savvier use of that, which, you know, taking your money, making it work for you and not owing anything for hopefully years. I mean all that income; my mom is just going to sock that money away. You know what I mean.

It’s tricky. And it’s going to be a big bill when the time comes, but my hope is that by that time I’ll have two, three, maybe four properties. You know what I mean. That’s always been my plan. It’s like I’ll buy that condo. I’m buying it with cash, right. So the cash is in the condo. And I can turn around and say hey; once I have some revenue coming in from a job or…it’s like hey; we have a three family, I have this condo. It’s all paid off. Now I want to buy another one. So then that way, God forbid, when the time comes, you sell one of those or two of those, whatever, I mean, you know.

THERAPIST: And God forbid if she were to die early, that’s what I’m feeling protective of you about.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That is the one thing.

THERAPIST: In two years…

CLIENT: Yeah, that’s the one thing. And my mom brought that up too, of course. She’s like, you know. I guess, then, what would happen…that’s why I would try to move quickly, you know, to buy another place. That way if the time came…

[12:01]

THERAPIST: You could just sell.

CLIENT: I could sell. But even then I’m here. I could just sell two condos of my unit. Each one would go for like $380K, whatever. That’s more than what we would owe them. I’d still have one unit left and a condo. It’s not…

THERAPIST: And so it’s not [inaudible – 12:16] and we’ll take the house if you don’t pay them in 20 days or something. It’s not that stringent. You have time to sell the condo and if the house doesn’t sell…

CLIENT: Yeah, of course, because they…yeah. I’m going to…we’re going to have a lawyer look over all the fine print. But sure. My assumption would be how…I’ll pay you, but I just need to sell the house and then pay you. So yeah.

But that’s kind of the worse…so even the worst case scenario, I mean God forbid, let’s say I didn’t even buy the other condo. There was just this money.

THERAPIST: You would still have the one.

[12:49]

CLIENT: Yeah, so what would happen is A.) All that money, probably, if I don’t buy something else, then that money’s not going to all be spent. You know, we’re very, you know; you know how I’ve been about that. And my mom, obviously.

So let’s say that $250 is just sitting somewhere. So that would be part of what I just give back to them. Worst comes to worst, comes to worst, I have to sell two units, pay them off. Well, I still have one unit that I can either live in, rent, and live with; you know, if worst came to worst, came to worst. That’s still not too shabby. You know. Still not too shabby.

I would not be happy if it went that way. But you know, what’s it called…desperate times call for desperate…yeah. And you know [inaudible – 13:38] those things too. He’s like, you know, just don’t do this out of desperation. But you know that’s easier said than done. I was like, well, it is and it isn’t out of desperation. I think it’s actually very savvy. You know.

THERAPIST: And I don’t know enough about it say whether it is or it isn’t. But it sounds like it has a lot of risks and it could have a lot of upside too.

[14:02]

CLIENT: The only few risks are, again, like I said, obviously if someone passes away unexpectedly or whatever, then you owe that money, all of it. That’s one.

Two; obviously there’s interest accruing. Hopefully, God willing she lives a long time. But there’s interest accruing on that. I mean the bank’s not stupid. They’re not just giving you money; don’t pay us back for now. You know. But really, those are the only…you just need to be able to make sure that you can pay them when the time comes and not be like homeless or whatever; totally screwed. I don’t see how that can happen, exactly, just because of the value of the house and all that. [Pause.] It’s a calculated risk. It’s absolutely a risk. But I was telling my uncle, I was like this is what happens.

Like if you’re someone who’s ambitious; I’ve been wanting to do something like this for a long time. I’m not going to be able to do it this year, next year. You know what I mean. It’s going to take forever for things to really – not forever – it’s going to take a while. We have an opportunity here, you know. You know, of course you’ve got…everything you’re saying is common sense stuff. Of course I wish I had revenue and rah, rah, rah. Well, that’s easier said than done. It’s easier for him to say that. We need to do something right now. We can’t just dilly dally anymore, you know. Because really, what’s going to happen six months from now, unless I win the lottery or something.

[15:30]

Let’s say there’s some revenue. Nothing is going to change. I still can’t get a home equity loan. Whatever I get is not going to be enough to pay these slightly larger debts. It’s just a reality. So I’d rather do this, pay off some stuff. I mean really, all we really need would be not even close to like $50,000 grand. Not even close that. Pay off my friend’s obligations, whatever. You’re talking about a few hundred thousand that you…you know.

[16:06]

Yeah, for a while, we might have to dip in to that, but not really. I’ve been kind of getting by on unemployment. So even if I just used a tiny tiny hundred bucks here, $200, that’s nothing to get you through until you, you know. I’m going to be working. You know what I mean. You see what I’m saying? You know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Uh huh.

CLIENT: And again, not to mention…actually, what am I saying. We probably meet that rent. That will just cover our monthly expenses. You know what I mean. Yeah, we have to pay the property tax and insurance, but that only comes out to like $10,000 grand a year. Well, 1725 x 12 is like $20,000 grand. For people like us who have gotten really good at not buying shit for ourselves and you know. So it won’t affect my unemployment, you know. I don’t know. It’s bold. It’s kind of a bold…I think it’s time. It’s kind of…you know. [Pause.]

But yeah, it’s definitely making me…I just can’t stop. My mind is just… [Pause.].

[17:38]

Meanwhile, that Assyrian, the university thing is progressing. She got back to me. She was like this all sounds terrific. She was like we do have to follow the proper channel thing. So she’s like send a cover letter and your CV all that. It seems…I don’t know. I mean… [Pause.]

THERAPIST: Do you know what the actual opportunity will be for?

CLIENT: I’m going to find that out. I’m going to find that out. I don’t know that yet. It’s…it sounds almost like there’s flexibility. Like it sounds like it could be like I can go there and lecture for a month, I mean for a semester. It sounds like if I wanted to, there might be something kind of like a full-time.

THERAPIST: Faculty?

CLIENT: Yeah. Which that, I’d really have to think about that if that were the case, you know. Yeah, I’m not really sure. I’m not really sure.

I think even if they said there’s a…we’ll give you, you know, how would you like to be blah, blah, blah, blah? Even then I think I would maybe say, how about I come for a semester, almost like a probation period kind of…both ways. Just because I’m making a huge move and I would feel really shitty if I got there and then I decided to come back, but I’ve already accepted this Assistant Professor thing, whatever they might offer.

[19:03]

It could also be nothing. You know what I mean. I’m ready for whatever. They could also, for whatever reason, look at my CV and think differently. I don’t know. She knows, at this point, we have a pretty good rapport. And she knows my background.

THERAPIST: How’d you know how to write the cover letter? Do you know what job you’re applying for?

CLIENT: I’m just writing it as…

THERAPIST: Just general interests?

CLIENT: Like I’m thrilled to be considered to be part of the faculty. Either way you’re going to be part of the faculty. Whatever context you go as. So…I guess I could just ask her what exactly it’s for.

THERAPIST: Why don’t you just ask?

CLIENT: Honestly, I think she’s not even…it’s all brand new, so I think…

THERAPIST: The whole program?

CLIENT: Yeah, so before they just said like an English Second Language. Now they have a B.A. in English and Communications. It’s like brand spanking new, which is why I renewed by interest in it, you know.

Her e-mail was like there are plenty of opportunities to teach. So…

[20:22]

THERAPIST: So I’d want to know are you talking full-time faculty position, adjuncting, or visiting lecturer. And she may say, “Oh, oh no, just to clarify I only meant this or I don’t know; it could be any of those.” Then you kind of know what you’re working with. If she said we only would be interested you in full-time faculty, you might just want to know what you’re doing.

CLIENT: Yeah, I guess I can just e-mail her and just say, you know, I’m writing my cover letter and it occurred to me that I’m not sure – what the fuck is the word – what capacity I would be there as. And you know, I’m flexible. So you know, I’m just curious. Yeah. [Pause.]

THERAPIST: You’re flexible, but you might also be picky too.

CLIENT: Well just to let her know that I’m not like waiting for you to offer me some, you know; I’m just curious what it is, you know.

THERAPIST: In fact, you’re asking what are the kinds of opportunities because you might not want some of them. You might decide there are certain things you wouldn’t do.

CLIENT: Well that I’ve already kind of indirectly made clear. Remember, she sent me a whole roster of the classes. So out of those, I told her the ones, you know. Yeah, I’m not teaching ESL.

Now, if I’m teaching Shakespeare and they need me to teach one ESL class, I mean you have to bend a little. You know what I mean. You’re a new faculty member.

THERAPIST: Right, but you didn’t go there just to teach ESL.

CLIENT: Exactly. That is not what I want to be known for, you know. And that’s what I listed. I was like Creative Writing, Shakespeare, World Literature, American Literature, you name it. I was like, you know, I don’t see any Poetry here. I can design, blah, blah, blah. So she was like great with all that, you know. But she did say, not because of anything I said, she’s like just to let you know, just a heads up, like because it’s a new department, we might have to be flexible sometimes in terms of what we teach until we start getting more. And that’s totally fine.

[22:19]

But yeah. Like I’m not going there as an ESL person. I was very clear about that. I mean just like I was clear about not going in January. Obviously I can go if I want to; she’s okay with that. But just, you know, I told her. There are some loose ends I have to tie up. There are some obligations I have and projects; things I need to see through. [Pause.]

The one other thing about that house, the one other thing – and my mom actually thought of this because I thought she wouldn’t want to sell – she was like, what if we just put it on the market for like $1 million. It’s like what do we care, right. So it’s already worth like $800,000; what if we just said $1 million? If someone pays it, then you’re talking about like at least, you know, $700,000-ish. I mean after everything. That’s nothing to sneeze at.

And then she was like then you buy a condo, do whatever you want and, you know, I don’t know.

THERAPIST: Buy her a condo and still have it…

CLIENT: That’s what I was saying. I was like we’ll buy you a condo and then put the rest of the money away.

THERAPIST: Buy both of you and still have some money. You could get not get the most expensive place.

CLIENT: Well see in that case, I believe in cash, you know what I mean. I mean obviously or A, B, C, but you know; yeah, but then you’re house rich, but cash poor.

[23:58]

So her a condo, absolutely. $300,000, $350,000 whatever; $380,000. Buy her something nice, you know. We’re still talking over $300,000. I was like, then I would put that in the bank and I would fucking rent. I have no problem renting.

THERAPIST: Don’t rent.

CLIENT: No, no, no. I don’t mean forever. But I do believe you’ve got to bide your time. You can’t just…

So her a condo. Now we have, what, $50,000 grand, $100,000 grand left. You see what’s happened. That will go like that. That’s where my uncle’s thing comes in, right. Of course, if there was steady steady income, fuck yeah. Of course; two condos. Or you know what; you’re talking $700,000. I’d buy like a nice two family. I don’t even need a three-family; a nice two-family; huge down payment, right. My mom can still go back to living in a two-family; rent the other one, with no mortgage. And now you have all that equity again in a nice two-family.

[25:03]

But it’s just tricky. These things are, you know, just tricky.

THERAPIST: That idea ends up being similar to the idea of selling one of the three.

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: I know you still have to deal with who’s the person you sell to, but you could get picky about that if that…you can.

CLIENT: Yeah I know, but I’d be…you should read some of the articles…

THERAPIST: I know there are horror stories, because there are also stories that go really well.

CLIENT: No doubt. No doubt. I just…I mean it’s also my mom. You know what I mean. I don’t want to deal…my mom…

THERAPIST: That’s what it sounds more like. She’s…

CLIENT: No, but it’s both. It’s both. I also don’t want to deal with like snippy fucking neighbors and stuff. I mean this is Cheshire, Baltimore. You know how people are around here. I’m not going to deal with snippy assholes, you know.

THERAPIST: Then don’t sell the house to that person.

CLIENT: You don’t know what you’re getting. You don’t know. I mean I know that from renting to tenants.

THERAPIST: It depends on who your agent is.

[25:54]

CLIENT: No, no. You just don’t know. People can suddenly just turn. I know that sounds kind of paranoid, but as a homeowner, when you’ve had lots of tenants, you’re like, you seemed so cool for a while. Now you’re kind of being a little stick up your butt. What’s going on?

So if that person’s a fucking owner, that’s…I’d rather just be free and clear either way. Either the whole fucking house for a really really good price that’s well worth selling, or a different way where we keep the house. We buy something else, you know. Or, I mean, for example, even this way. You get the reverse mortgage…think of this. You get the reverse…actually, wait a second.

[26:41]

The reverse mortgage, still sell – because my mom’s still living. As long as she’s living in that unit and she owns it. Wait a second. This is getting interesting now. Then if I approached Wendy, and I said, look; no rush. Just a thought, at some point down the road thinking about selling. If she were interested. So now I’ve sold that unit. I’ve already got cash from the house. That would be very interesting. Well anyway. Yeah, there are all these options. [Pause.]

I mean I guess it wouldn’t hurt to just put it on the market for like…although even there my mom was like then people are going to come and go. And again, Wendy might be like you guys are putting this on the market? And she could want to move. Her whole thing was I want to be able to be here for a while until my son graduates from high school. You know. And she’s a very good tenant. I guess there might be ways around that – tell brokers, tell people that look; you can’t come. I don’t know. Whatever. But...

THERAPIST: It’s all worth thinking about. It sounds like there are some options on the table.

CLIENT: No, there are. Being really careful yeah. The first time was just ask the guy from the bank, the guy I had been talking to. Just send me all the fine print. Send me all the forms, everything so we can have a lawyer look at it and then just go from there. [Pause.]

[28:31]

But yeah, I mean something’s got to get done. I’m literally no longer able to concentrate. I just can’t do it. I cannot do it. It’s just not happening anymore. My mind is constantly…so you know one or the other; something’s got to get done.

THERAPIST: I think you have really more of a foundation [inaudible – 28:56] be able to think about other things again.

CLIENT: Exactly, exactly. And that’s what I was telling my uncle. I’m like, you know, all that stuff makes perfect…I was like basically telling him too, we know. What are we morons? Of course we need income. You need a job, you need this. And he wasn’t saying it in that way, but I was just trying to let him know that I think you’ve forgotten…when you don’t have two nickels to rub together, you’ve got to do something. And yeah, it’s a risk; it’s this, it’s that. But it’s just got to happen. That’s just the way it goes. And we’re very fortunate in that we’re not house poor.

So I’m trying to think of the savviest way to do something. And, you know, including…that helps you even find a job. You know I want to have more peace of mind, that I’m more relaxed, I’m more. You know. How the fuck…I can’t be a life coach right now. I just can’t. I can’t do it. People are going to see right through my…you know, I’m not going to be able to present myself and focus and listen. I just can’t. You know.

[30:02]

Or in the best case scenario, it’s going to be like a stumbling half-assed, you know what I mean. You need some peace of mind to gather yourself together and just breathe and you know. [Pause.]

I was telling my mom, she should feel blessed. What a wonderful…it’s not ideal, but thank God that there’s this option. You know. Do I want exactly that? No, but that’s what there is and we have to make the best of it and capitalize on that, you know.

THERAPIST: It sounds like your uncle’s only concerned about the money part.

CLIENT: Yeah, his big concern is…I mean my uncle. He’s not even…he doesn’t want to get into it, but he’s really dealing with like my aunt and my cousin, they’re in Provident. I think they’re way more fucked than my mom and I know. And what we know is that we’re…the information that we know is that they’re fucked. So I can’t imagine what more there is that my uncle. Just he’s like, you know…you know how they are. They’re paranoid. They don’t want me to tell anybody whatever. But he’s like trust me; it’s really bad.

[31:35]

So I think, a.) Yeah, he sees like how could you squander hundreds of thousands, I mean...? That’s, to him, like…and I get that. I absolutely get that. And 2.) Yeah, he’s like, he doesn’t want us to get in to that position. But you know, I kind of tried to emphasize – and he knows that. I was like, I mean, we don’t live a lavish life. This is very different. I’m not taking every chick I meet on a cruise. I’m not buying a Harley-Davidson or a yellow Corvette. I mean, you know, they’re entitled. You know. They always had it and they just felt entitled.

And as it turns out, my uncle who passed to…her husband was clearly the money guy. Otherwise this would have never, never. If she was my mom, this would have never happened. Not in this way. You know what I mean. Whatever my mom squandered was just, you know, it went to the house, it went to bills, you know. But if we were like them and we had all these properties…are you kidding me? Never, never. You don’t just liquidate everything and just fucking…you don’t do that. You know, so.

But yeah, no, I mean I totally understand where he’s coming from. Absolutely. You can’t just take that money and then just like live on it.

THERAPIST: Yeah, that’s what I was getting ready…this would be liquidating it and spending it.

[33:07]

CLIENT: That’s right. And it’s absolutely understandable.

THERAPIST: It sounds like you get that. When push comes to shove in practice what happens, so if that doesn’t happen you’re just only saying that there’s got to be [inaudible – 33:17] or else that is what will happen. That is what would happen to anybody.

CLIENT: Yeah, exactly.

THERAPIST: If they’re like [inaudible – 33:23], that’s the only money you’ll have.

CLIENT: Yeah, and he wasn’t at all saying it in any negative way. He was just saying it all sounds great. He says I’ve just gotten very very conservative. And actually I understand. I know that he’s doing very well, but he’s right. He’s like I’m millions of dollars in debt. So it’s high revenue, but it’s all relative. So he’s like I think about that and like any second, God forbid, if something were to happen, we are screwed. Because if that revenue…yes it’s coming in, but it’s covering these huge…

THERAPIST: That amount of debt.

CLIENT: Yeah, so. [Pause.]

[34:04]

But yeah, no, it’s like you said. Like that’s exactly what it feels like right now. There’s not a stable foundation right now. When money is so stressful, everything’s tainted. Everything’s tainted. You know, so. So what I’m trying to do is just remember that, but there’s a solution. It might not be the perfect solution, but it is a really good solution. Yet, I’ll have to deal with it at some point when it comes time to pay it. But…

You know what it’s like? I feel like this is a second chance at that money, you know what I mean, that my mom…

If I was who I am now then, of course we would have bought, immediately bought another house. I would have been much more in charge. Back then, even though I tried, I was like okay, mom; there’s $150,000 grand left. You have to put this somewhere and forget about it. But that wasn’t who I am now. So she was able to kind of, you know what I mean. So I feel like this is a second chance for me to take charge and be like okay, look; different ball game now. You know. Saving, paying off certain debts, not eating in to the money as much as possible, buying another property; more equity, you know.

[35:46]

You know like we’re in sync now more. My mom and I are getting each other and she’s way more…it’s like we’ve talked about it. I’ve kind of trained her, or she just sees that the more and more confident and whatever I am with her. She’s much more willing to defer. She’s still a worry wart, but she also knows something has to give. You know, so. [Pause.]

THERAPIST: One of the tricky things about it is it could feel, for the short run, like let’s say the reverse mortgage goes through and it works. It could feel like getting the foundation, but it’s somewhat seductive. Because if it doesn’t…

CLIENT: It’s debt.

THERAPIST: It’s debt. And it actually; like for the time being you’ll have money, but if you spend that money because something else doesn’t work out, then the foundation is gone very quickly. Like quick sand. So counting on that is like the relief. That would give the foundation, I think, as a little bit of a fantasy. That’s only a foundation if it gets put towards something else and starts making money really quickly. Do you know what I mean?

CLIENT: No I do. This is what I’m saying; it’s a calculated risk.

[37:05]

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah.

CLIENT: It’s an absolute risk. But it’s…and again, the big chunk of that money wouldn’t be spent. I’m factoring in kind of living expenses. I’ve over shooting; I’m over estimating a lot of things.

So let’s say we even use $75,000 grand, $80,000 grand of it. Right. Well that huge other chunk is just going to be put aside in an account that’s literally, like it’s like a horse at the gate. Forget about it, but when the time comes, because that’s how real estate is now around here. You have to just pound; like you can’t just take your…

THERAPIST: Buy whenever. Yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah, because people are over bidding. Things barely hit the market and they’re so…but now you have this cash to be one of those people. This is exactly what I’m looking for. Blah, blah, blah. Once those things are checked off, the broker knows exactly what you want, what the circumstances are; cash. Done. That’s a risk. What if you don’t find that place? What if you find the place and there’s a problem with the place? But, you know. I don’t want to be like my mom where everything’s a what-if. “Well, if we had done some of the things we should have done that I wanted to do, whatever,” what if? Look at what’s happened, you know. [Pause.]

[38:37]

THERAPIST: How does [inaudible – 38:51] fit in to this?

CLIENT: I don’t know. I don’t know. I guess it would be like buy another place. I mean in a way, my mind would be at ease because my mom’s not stressed about money and now she’s have the first floor and the third floor. So we have our house. We have all this revenue coming in, that yes, eventually is owed, but my mom is socking away all this money and hopefully I’d be able to buy a condo before I leave. You’re getting rental income from three places.

And yes – that was the other thing – my uncle’s like well with the condo, what’s the revenue going to be? You know. Because he’s all about flipping, and I get that, because that’s big money. You know. You make $40,000 grand on it and then you do something else. And then you make $100,000 on it and you do, you know. But I was like that’s great. Maybe I will do that, but I’m okay just making $700 a month.

I’ve paid cash. Yes there’s a monthly fee, the condo fee. So even if I make $700, $600, all the equity is in the condo – cash. And $600 there, $725; so that, I feel pretty damn good, you know. And then I’m making money; that you pay different taxes when you work. You pay less or not, depending on whatever it is. I feel pretty damn good, you know.

[40:22]

It’s almost like I feel like that’s secondary, I feel like. I feel like this is so urgent that whether I go to Assyria or don’t go; whether I go to get a Master’s or…I feel like everything now has taken a back seat to this issue. [Pause.]

[40:54]

THERAPIST: [inaudible – 41:34].

CLIENT: Better like what?

THERAPIST: Takes a back seat.

CLIENT: I mean it does a little bit because I literally can’t even concentrate on what I’m feeling. All I know is I’m just anxious and stressed, you know.

THERAPIST: And preoccupied.

CLIENT: Preoccupied and very restless. I’m super restless. [Pause.]

THERAPIST: Are you sleeping?

CLIENT: Not really. No. I mean I’m usually up until like 4:00. I just literally…I’m wired. I’m just literally…maybe I’ll take this Benadryl shit now. Although…

THERAPIST: Maybe you should. Take it a few times.

[42:20]

CLIENT: But I kind of don’t like it. It’s making…it’s almost like a…sometimes when I smoke – I don’t smoke pot often, but once in a while when I do, among those times, there’s this minority of times where I feel both high and sleepy like this, but also kind of palpitatey and a little anxious. I don’t like that combo, you know. Maybe I just need to…

THERAPIST: You can try it once, though, and if it knocks you out, it knocks you out. You won’t be aware of it.

CLIENT: That’s true. Or if you can just take a half, if it’s so strong, in that case.

THERAPIST: Uh huh. Or if you have, I mean, a rare number of people have a paradoxical reaction where they actually get more agitated rather than sleepy. You’ll know that after the first night and you don’t have to take it again.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: They’re actually prescribing these. It’s an antihistamine right, Benadryl. So there’s a prescription antihistamine now called Vistaril that they’re prescribing as a sleep-aid only. Like that’s how pervasive it’s become.

CLIENT: Yeah. Well even, you know, Nyquil…

THERAPIST: It has antihistamine in it.

CLIENT: Yeah. Nyquil finally put something out called ZQuil. Same bottle. Same everything. I don’t know that the difference is. But it’s because they see how many people take Nyquil for sleep, you know.

Actually, maybe that’s what I need to do because Nyquil doesn’t quit make me feel like this. It’s just the sleepiness without this weird feeling.

[43:48]

THERAPIST: It’s probably the same exact drug, so.

CLIENT: Maybe. Yeah, I should check. Maybe I’m just used to Nyquil or something. Yeah, no; and then I just end up sleeping. I mean I do sleep, but it’s all kind of… [Pause.]

THERAPIST: It’s just a [inaudible – 44:10].

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Not having enough sunshine in the daytime.

CLIENT: Absolutely. Sure. [Pause.]

THERAPIST: You could take the Ativan. Do you use that for sleep ever?

CLIENT: Ativan? I do every so often, but I find that it doesn’t…it relaxes me, but it doesn’t do this. This is kind of like really like, you know.

THERAPIST: Sleepy, sleepy.

CLIENT: Yeah. It doesn’t do that. I mean I guess if I did two instead of one, it would. But I don’t know. [Pause.]

THERAPIST: How about tomorrow?

CLIENT: 12 o’clock. Alright Claire. Thank you so much. See you.

END TRANSCRIPT