TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:00:05)

CLIENT: Yeah. I woke up at like 12:45 or something and... Yeah. I'm just... Yeah. It was not good. And the rest of the day went okay after that. But I'm just... Yeah. I'm also not... I don't know what it is, if it's the cold or stress or, you know? Who the fuck knows. It's like my left hip joint hurts especially when I'm waking up. It like really hurts. (LAUGHTER) I don't know if it's just cold and I'm getting fucking arthritis or something or it's just all the stress or something like that. I don't know. I don't know what it is. It seems funny that it's right after I had hives for like eleven days. (PAUSE) Yeah.

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:00:51) aches and pains. [00:00:55]

CLIENT: Yeah. It's just weird. I don't know...

THERAPIST: Just middle age aches and pains.

CLIENT: Yeah, I guess. I guess so. I did think about that too. I was like, "Well..."

(CROSSTALK)

CLIENT: I mean, I feel like I'm 19 or something. Yeah. I'm not. Oh well... Anyway, yeah, just... I'm really sorry. That happened quite a while... It sucked.

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:01:21)

CLIENT: What's that?

THERAPIST: (inaudible)

CLIENT: Yeah. Me too, me too. The other weird thing is... I don't know what happens. I don't know if I'm also both not sleeping well but then when I do get into a deep sleep, I'm so exhausted that I just really... I had the... Because I set the alarm at like three different intervals. You know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I had like a 10, 10:30, 11... Do you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Nothing. Didn't hear a thing. You know?

THERAPIST: It's on your phone or...

CLIENT: Yeah. And I always... I mean, I check it. I know that it works because it worked today. You know what I mean? Early this morning... But I don't know. I don't know if maybe I hadn't slept well so then when I did finally go into a deep sleep I just... I don't know. I don't know. Whatever. [00:02:09]

THERAPIST: Is your phone right next to you?

CLIENT: Not really. I usually keep it a little bit...

THERAPIST: So you have to get out of bed to turn it off?

CLIENT: I have to at least stretch really... Like you've got to really wake up to get to the phone.

THERAPIST: Because that's another way... Put it all the way across the room.

CLIENT: Exactly. Yeah, yeah. Exactly. But... I don't know. Or maybe I had fucked up and I had, didn't have it on. But I checked and it was the right settings. Who knows. But... (SIGH) Yeah. And then... So today... So, first of all, a few things happened. I mean, I was okay the rest of the... I just felt shitty that first few hours or two or three hours because like what the... I just... You know, you start going to that place where like, man, I know I'm not really depressed, depressed but I just don't feel right. I just feel just all discombobulated. [00:03:03]

But then I went to meet my friend Mike (ph) for a beer around five or six. He told me that his wife's pregnant. So we had a really nice time. Whatever. I get home and this girl Danielle (ph) who I off and on have kind of hooked up with... But she's a really... We're also kind of friends. Like she's a good person. She calls me out of the fucking blue. (PAUSE) Well, it wasn't totally out of the blue. We kind of flirted a little bit and we were going to maybe get together or whatever. But then she calls me out of the blue to tell me that like two months ago when we had, the last time we had hooked up, that she felt uncomfortable. There were like one or two things she felt uncomfortable or something. And I'm just sitting there. I'm already kind of... Like... (LAUGHTER) I don't know. I just feel like I'm getting bitch slapped lately a little bit, like my own emotions, like here, like no money, a job I don't know what I'm doing kind of with the next... [00:04:09]

I mean, it's just like, "Are you kidding me right now?" A girl is calling me two months after something to fucking critique the sex? Like are you kidding me? That's never happened in my life. So I just listened very calmly. I was like, "Sorry." I don't know. It was just absurd what she was saying. But I was like, "I'm sorry that that, whatever, you feel that way. I didn't get the sense at all that anything was wrong." But finally... She kind of kept pushing it a little bit. And I was like, "You know what? I don't really have time for this." I was like, "Find someone else to have sex with. I don't know what..."

THERAPIST: What was she saying?

CLIENT: She said that... I think she was kind of saying, one, that I kind of didn't listen to her. I did find that... I don't like, you know... I've heard this from other people. It's never happened to me. But I don't like women that give you direction during sex. [00:05:03]

I mean, I don't do that to women. Right? Sometimes it's not exactly what I want. But I don't know. I feel like that's weird right in the middle of sex. You know? But I let it go. Whatever. But then she said two things that I guess I had kind of like... I tend to be a little dominant or whatever but not like aggressively dominant. But I guess... And I think I know what she's talking about. At one point, she either giggled or something when I did something or something like that. So I said something like, "I'm going to wipe that smile off your face." You know? But clearly, what am I? A fucking criminal? I don't mean it... It's just in the middle of sex. I'm not like saying... That was one and I guess I slapped her on the ass. And that made... I mean, give me a break. That... First of all, if it was that big of a deal, you could have just told me. She was like, "But, you know, you don't answer the phone." It's like, "Are you kidding me? I'd just leave you a fucking message if something really bothered me. E-mail me. I don't know. But I don't, really honestly, have anything to tell you. I'm exhausted. I've got a lot going on. I don't give a fuck." [00:06:09]

I was like, "I'm really sorry. I know myself. I've never had this issue with anyone ever and I'm sorry if you kind of took it the wrong way or whatever." I was like, "You seem to be having a great time. You didn't say a damn word." She was like, "Do you even know if I had an orgasm?" I just started laughing. I was like, "Dude. Find someone that's going to give you an orgasm. I don't know what to tell you. Then I don't know why you're so interested in me." You know? So, in a weird way, I felt good for... I didn't get all riled up. I took it in stride. I didn't get insecure. I really didn't give a fuck. You know? But also that I was vocal about it. You know? I was... No, I don't think so. You know? I don't think so. But that's... That summed up to me how things feel lately. You know what I mean? Like just... I'm very like not in a... My head space is (PAUSE) foggy. [00:07:07]

THERAPIST: You say you feel bitch slapped which you've used before.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: It's a very particular word that's a feeling of...

CLIENT: Just the feeling of...

THERAPIST: ...being slapped around.

CLIENT: Well, the phrase is like getting beaten like a...

THERAPIST: I know what it means.

CLIENT: ...(inaudible at 00:07:21) stepchild or whatever.

THERAPIST: But you're picking that phrase versus a lot of others.

CLIENT: Like what?

THERAPIST: A bitch, a woman.

CLIENT: I don't think of that as a bitch. I think of it as a... I mean, it's like Job. Job was getting bitch slapped. I mean, it's just weakness or weakness where like constantly being put down or being... You know what I mean?

THERAPIST: That's what I'm trying to ask. What does it mean?

(CROSSTALK)

CLIENT: So forget the phrase. It feels like Job. I feel like Job right now. You know what I mean? It's one thing after another. I'm not... I feel overwhelmed. I feel foggy. [00:08:05]

THERAPIST: Even... In other words (inaudible at 00:08:09) (LAUGHTER) even if it's Job, however you want to call it, there's something about like the world doing this to you.

CLIENT: Oh.

THERAPIST: There's something else. Bitch slapped. In other words, it's something doing it to you?

CLIENT: Oh. I see. No. I don't mean it that way, like it's me against the world. I just feel like people go through these phases. I feel like I'm in a phase. You know? It's just like a fucking shitty wave that I have to ride out. I can't... It's not going to change tomorrow. You know what I mean? I'm not going to have $500,000 tomorrow. I'm not going to have a job that pays me a hundred grand tomorrow. Like I've got things on my plate. You know? And I'm tired and it's bumming me out and making me feel foggy and... (PAUSE) And it does feel a little bit like one thing after another a little bit. You know? And absurd things a little bit, like that. Like that's never happened to me. So it's happening now. You know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Yeah, yeah. [00:09:03]

CLIENT: So it's a little bit like when it rains, it pours. Yeah. It's not the world against me. I know that. It's just... It's just a lot. You know? I'm just...

(PAUSE)

THERAPIST: I think you did get bitch slapped when you were a child.

CLIENT: Yeah. When I was a child I did get... It was the world against me. Yeah.

THERAPIST: It actually happened. A woman was being a bitch to you...

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: ...often.

CLIENT: That's my mom you're talking about. I'm just kidding.

THERAPIST: Sorry. (LAUGHTER)

CLIENT: No. I'm just kidding. Yeah. You're right. You're right. Yeah.

THERAPIST: So I don't think that phrase is just any old phrase. You didn't say when it rains, it pours. That phrase means something in your history.

CLIENT: Yeah. I guess so. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. It was all women pretty much.

THERAPIST: Right. It wasn't your (inaudible at 00:09:57) your father.

CLIENT: All the women in my family, yeah, except my grandma [00:10:01]

(PAUSE)

THERAPIST: I mean, even... I know this isn't why you brought this up (inaudible at 00:10:11) slapping on the ass (inaudible) the level... You've got to hear me out for a second. The level of what becomes erotic is an aggression, putting her in her place, bitch slapping her back.

CLIENT: I guess. Yeah.

THERAPIST: How enraged you must be.

CLIENT: I guess. But, I mean, that would only be if I felt aggressive in that moment. I just don't. It's vey play... I mean, I wasn't like crack.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I mean, like, that's...

THERAPIST: You're not raping her.

CLIENT: No, no. It's not... Forget rape. It's not even like... I wasn't even really being dominant. I mean, I've been dominant. That wasn't even that... Because I could tell... I'm not an idiot. I could tell... No, no. Maybe she's... Also, she's a little awkward at... Obviously. She's giving directions in the middle of sex. [00:11:03]

So I wasn't like overdoing it. So, I mean, that's just... Yeah.

THERAPIST: I get that it's all in the name of playful, fun, safe, not overly in control, not overly aggressive.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: But still what... The storyline that becomes playful. Like there are lots of different stories that become playful in sex. That's the one that...

CLIENT: But then does that mean... Because a lot of guys are like that. Does that mean that all these guys have issues with women? You know what I mean? Like...

THERAPIST: Many, yes. (LAUGHTER)

CLIENT: I guess so. I don't know. I... (SIGH) See, this is where... This is where I'm starting to understand my man Jung (ph) a little bit. I don't know. Obviously, I have a lot of issues with... (LAUGHTER) But I feel like sometimes some things are a bit of a stretch, I think. That's... You know what I mean? I think it, yeah, it would be a little wackier, dudes or women, either way, I don't care what gender, when it gets into like tying up and really kind of more hardcore bondage whatever they call it. [00:12:01]

THERAPIST: I... I'm not even saying there's something wrong with it.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: It's...

CLIENT: Oh okay.

THERAPIST: ...fine. It can be an incredibly mutually enjoyable part of having sex with somebody. But what we're here to do is understand what it is, right? Even if all it was was a thought. Maybe you didn't even say it out loud. Even still with the thought. Why is it that thought? Why isn't it another thought? You know?

CLIENT: Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. I mean, I'm with you.

(CROSSTALK)

CLIENT: But why do I...

THERAPIST: ...sexy?

CLIENT: Oh, by the way, I didn't think it was sexy. I mean, I literally was... That's what annoyed me about her phone... The slap in the ass, I get it. I did slap her in the butt. Fine. But that smirk thing, I wasn't... She didn't even get that... Well, she was giggling. So I joked. I mean, it really... I wasn't like, "Oh, you bitch. I'm going to..." You know what I mean? Not even in a sexy way. I literally was kind of joking, like, "I'm going to..." Even if we weren't having sex, I would be like, "What are you smirking about." You know? [00:13:05]

I would have done the same to Mike or Dave (ph) or... It was just... You know what I mean? When someone sort of laughs and giggles and, "What the fuck are you smiling about?" That was it. So I... Yeah. I don't know. Whatever. But I do get what you're, I do get what you're saying. I do get what you're saying. (PAUSE) Yeah. I don't know. (SIGH) (PAUSE) I don't know. I'm kind of like speechless. I don't even know how to... This is a whole new fucking terrain like between the job, between... (PAUSE) I don't know. It's just a lot. [00:14:03]

THERAPIST: It's becoming more real.

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. (PAUSE) I mean, on the other hand... That's why I think some of it is about money and a lot of it isn't. Do you know what I mean? I think a lot of it isn't about... Because, you know, this reverse mortgage thing is going to happen. So really then what am I... Again, that doesn't mean I'm skipping down the street. But at least there's going to be a cushion. At least like my mom won't be able to bitch and moan about money anymore. A lot of things are going to be resolved. Not everything. But at least for the time being there's going to be a cushion where... [00:15:01]

(SIGH) So this is, I think, a much bigger picture kind of thing that I'm feeling. I don't know if I want to stay here. If I move... I know that that's not perfect either. I also know that it's not just easy to live somewhere six months and somewhere... What am I? A jetsetter? You know? Or even if I do do those things, that's tiring too. It's not easy to maintain that. You know? So I just... I'm just overwhelmed. I'm not sure...

(PAUSE)

THERAPIST: I know it's a strange thing to say but I think it's good. I think it's a good thing it's overwhelming because it feels like you're actually understanding what it really is. [00:15:59]

CLIENT: Yeah. No. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I've been telling people. Yeah. I told Mike (ph) yesterday... Because that's the thing. Why am I able to hang out with Mike and be perfectly, have a lovely time. You know what I mean? That's what I told him. I was like, "You know..." I was like, "Yeah. I haven't really been doing well." It's different than really not doing well. You know, I was like, "I'm not doing well because I'm... There's a lot of things going on that are very real and that are coming up and it's like a fuck torrent of, you know..." So...

THERAPIST: And you actually don't have the internal psychic (ph) strategies that you once had to solve them? Which I think is a good thing. In other words, it used to be...

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: ...going to Assyria would appear as like the bubble fantasy where...

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: ...everything would get fixed.

CLIENT: Right, right. Or just one girl or the other...

THERAPIST: Right. A woman would solve everything or this job...

CLIENT: Even... You know what's interesting? Even like masturbating and all that shit...

THERAPIST: Absolutely. Absolutely. [00:16:57]

CLIENT: You know? Way, way, way, way less.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Way less. And... Yeah.

THERAPIST: All of these things....

CLIENT: That's all good.

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:17:09) anything that you could get into a bubble where it feels like this takes care of everything and it actually doesn't...

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah.

THERAPIST: ...and then it crashes, a relationship, a job, a moving...

CLIENT: Right, right.

THERAPIST: So I think the fact that you're looking everywhere right now and going, "Wait. That's not that easy either."

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

THERAPIST: That's being real about it.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: That's a really good thing...

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: ...because then you're not going to go to Assyria if you don't know why you want to go there and what's in it for you..

CLIENT: Right, right.

THERAPIST: ...what you lose by going.

CLIENT: Right. In other words, I'm not going to, at least I'm not going to hopefully like make thing worse emotionally for myself.

THERAPIST: By making a rash decision because it feels like it's going to solve it all but it's not.

CLIENT: Right, right. Yeah. No. Very true. Yeah. That's very true.

(PAUSE) [00:18:00]

(SIGH) It could be that a lot of it is still... That's the one thing I'm not able to get over is like being hard on myself. I think that's a lot of what made what's going on... You know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Yes.

CLIENT: You know, if you're feeling some regret, if you're, you know... Or a lot of the anger or disappointment I feel is more at myself. You know what I mean? (PAUSE) So, yeah, that could be...

THERAPIST: The (inaudible at 00:18:41) What if you say, "Okay. Maybe, now that I think about it (inaudible) is not the best solution because thinking about the whole reality of the rest of your life." But then you start feeling really down on yourself for having gotten so tied into it to begin with.

CLIENT: Right. [00:18:55]

THERAPIST: Right? So it's immediately tied...

CLIENT: Which is getting better. That's gotten better. But I think this is something deeper. It's not even the life coaching thing.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Oh, that's just one example on the surface.

CLIENT: But, yeah, deep down, I think there's something... Like that... I'm not a big... You know, like did I get hives because I'm so stressed? I don't know. But the more I think about it, I do feel like some of this bodily stuff, it's almost like a self-flagellation. Like it's so turned inward... It's like beating myself up. But, yeah, you start... Maybe I was going to get aches and pains anyway. But I don't think it's helping. You know what I mean? Because this whole area back here is just like a slab of granite.

THERAPIST: Sure, sure.

CLIENT: I mean, it's just like a rock. You know? So... (PAUSE) Yeah. And that's a really tough thing. Again, that's not something that's just going to change overnight. Even when I try not to be hard on myself, I don't know that I am. And like lately, I've been feeling pretty good. But, you know, now I'm starting to wonder. Maybe, on some level, I think... I do feel much better. [00:20:05]

But maybe I still am like really, really... I'm just not able to relax. You know? I'm not able to...

THERAPIST: Or something's gotten better enough so that you finally get to see and feel more consciously and become aware how hard you are on yourself...

CLIENT: Right, right.

THERAPIST: ...all the time.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: Like when you're writing, you don't... Like of course you're getting stopped if you sit down. It's this critical...

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: ...self-flagellating, self-loathing voice takes over...

CLIENT: Right, right.

THERAPIST: ...the second you start writing.

CLIENT: Right. It's getting better. But, yeah, it's absolutely... Like you said, it's getting better because I see it now. So that's a huge thing. You know? But, yeah, it's got to... Yeah. It's a little, quite a ways to go.

(PAUSE) [00:21:00]

Maybe a big part of it too is that I feel this way because I'm still not used to feeling this way. You know what I mean? Really like day to day my days are pretty good. You know what I mean? Like they're mellow. They're peaceful. I think that's the problem, in a way. Do you know what I mean? I mean, yeah, I am worried about a job. But at the same time I'm not... Something will work. Like I don't feel doom and gloom about it. I just feel what anybody would feel. [00:22:03]

It's like fuck. I've got to somehow make, get a job. But I don't... You know what I'm saying? Like I think it's more like I can't even just enjoy... All the things my friends told me, right, fucking enjoy it. You have unemployment... You know what I mean? Yeah. They don't mean be a lazy ass but there's something to be said for that. Like, "Dude, you've paid into the system. Now that you're getting that money back, you're looking for a job. It's not like you're partying all day long or something." But I'm... You know, that's what I'm not used to. I'm not used to having this mellow peaceful... Maybe that's still... I just can't. I can't... You know? So it's all these different things at the same time. I don't know.

(PAUSE) [00:23:00]

THERAPIST: I think it's really complicated because there are two things are happening at once. One, you are starting, we've talked a lot lately about the feeling that you're actually looking in the mirror and taking ownership some for your own (inaudible at 00:23:21) it's not in my hands. What's wrong? What's happening inside me? Which is a real kind of accountability for what is your contribution to the stuckness. And yet, I think as soon as you go into that like real ownership, it can so quickly fall back into the groove or (inaudible)

CLIENT: Right. It almost reinforces the stuckness. Yeah, yeah. Exactly.

THERAPIST: Which isn't... In some ways, that place leaves reality. That's a very old voice where it's about like your core sense of yourself.

CLIENT: Right, right, right, right, right.

THERAPIST: So it's hard to walk that line...

CLIENT: Exactly.

THERAPIST: ...between actually taking ownership and not being... [00:24:17]

CLIENT: It's like a Pandora's box. Like once... Yeah. I take ownership of it. But then I immediately feel shitty for all the years that that was the case and, you know, now it's too late or whatever. Yeah.

THERAPIST: Or it, for the time being, is reinforcing that early young voice of self-hatred.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: That's the part I think, in the end of this, will not be real. But it pulls you back to that place of maybe it was true all along.

CLIENT: Right, right, right, right. Yep. (PAUSE) The funny thing is yesterday...

(PAUSE) [00:25:00]

You know, it's funny how like this simple shift in priorities... Once I was like, "Okay. Really. Look. I've got to remember. I've got to back to what my feeling was on my back from Montana (ph)." Music, writing, PhD, and not being stuck in Darien year round, all year, not doing anything. Right? Completely lost sight of that. You know? Definitely got... I mean, yes and no. But, yeah. I got off the path. The music... That was good. Whatever. It's good. So yesterday... It's funny. I think the very fact of that shift... I picked up my guitar yesterday for the first time in, other than practice, months, months. And the minute I sat down... I'm not saying this to be, you know, arrogant or anything like that. I wrote two songs without even fucking around. Like those were the two first things... I was like, "Whoa." They were a little bit different. They were progress. You know what I mean? [00:26:01]

So that's good.

THERAPIST: So some creativity was born out of finding...

CLIENT: Exactly, exactly, exactly.

THERAPIST: ...finding yourself again.

CLIENT: And even with the PhD... Like I feel... It's getting there. You know what I mean? I think... I shouldn't say that until it actually happens. But...

THERAPIST: But that feels like the right thing.

CLIENT: Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. No. Absolutely, absolutely. Because you know what it is? I'm accepting... Once you've accepted... You know what? This isn't about becoming a rock star or not and it's not about winning a Pulitzer prize and whether I publish three books or eighteen or whatever. It's just what I do. I mean, I... If I were a plumber, right, maybe I wouldn't be the best fucking plumber in the world. But I'll be a pretty damn good one and enough to be fulfilled. You know what I mean? That's what I'm trying to remember. You know? So... [00:27:05]

And when you do that, then of course, it becomes a lot easier because, you know... (PAUSE) But, I mean, even with the dissertation. That took me a second. I was like, "No. Wait a minute. No. Get rid of the Assyrian stuff. Or do American Assyrian." I don't know. I'm not going to translate a gazillion pages right now. You know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Yeah. Of course.

CLIENT: Like why was I even so worked up about that? You know? (PAUSE) Or, with the dissertation, even the creative portion, I have more than enough. It's not good enough to be published as a book, my second book, to me at least it's not. But it's easily enough to be the creative portion of a dissertation. I mean, come on. So... You know what I mean? Like it's just... Once you refocus and like kind of adjust... So that part's good. You know? [00:27:59]

THERAPIST: Like the best dissertation in the world is a finished one?

CLIENT: Right. Yeah. Exactly. (SIGH) Yeah. No. I think, in the end, just what you're saying... And it's how I feel. I can tell it's a process and I'm not going to feel that much different like even a month from now. I doubt that... You know? Like I just... Some days are going to be a little more like dark and foggy than others.

THERAPIST: Well, the process of finding yourself, as much as it sounds it should be this uplifting and glorious one, can actually be really, really upsetting and painful because you have to realize how long you haven't been that person...

CLIENT: Exactly.

THERAPIST: ...or ways that you contributed to...

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: ...or ways other people contributed to. It can be horrifying...

CLIENT: Yeah. [00:29:03]

THERAPIST: ...to suddenly wake up...

CLIENT: And plus you're not used to being that person. It was you all along.

THERAPIST: Yes, yes, yes.

CLIENT: I saw a dream that I wrote down last night. It was... It blew my mind. This one was... I haven't seen a dream like this since... Do we have time?

THERAPIST: Yeah. Oh yeah. Fifteen minutes.

CLIENT: Okay. I don't know if I saw one dream and then fell back asleep and saw the rest. It's like... So alright. So I was at a bowling alley and I don't know how I was with. He were (inaudible at 00:29:47) bowling and I was bowling really well, like super well. There would be like one pin. I'd knock it down. You know? Whatever. [00:29:59]

And then there were a bunch of... Then there were a bunch of people suddenly. Everyone was kind of well dressed. And my friend... This kid Donnie (ph) who I taught with. Not that Donnie but another Donnie. He was there. And this is where I don't know if I saw another dream or... And my friend Matthew (ph) was there. And in the dream, I'm telling Matthew that I saw a dream that Matthew and I... It's insane. That Matthew and I had figured out a way to make money or something and we were traveling or moving away and... But it had something to do with like science books or something. And I was at TJ Maxx here and I was trying on these really comfortable black boots or something. I don't know. But I was telling Matthew about this. But now, after I wrote it down, I don't know if... I don't know when that happened. But anyway... So then Donnie, this kid Donnie drops me off at the Square. [00:31:03]

He's driving an old car. He (inaudible) near up on. But it is the Square but it isn't. He drops me off at night. And I can't remember where my car is at all. I cannot remember where my car is and I'm kind of like totally... I start feeling that foggy, you know, thing. I head down the street for some reason, thinking that it's on that, maybe because sometimes I park on that street. Thinking it's there, it's not. I go up there and there's like an apartment building, one of those old red, some kind of apartment building that I go in. And I go to my mom's apartment. My mom has an apartment. She's in her... She's in bed. This is the one thing I didn't write down but I remember now. This part of her was all the same but there was something about her body that was young and I can't put my finger on what that is. But there was something about her body that was young. [00:32:01]

And she's in bed. She's talking... I don't know what she's talking to me about. Then, as I'm leaving, I hear her say something else which I don't know what it is. When I come back, she's kind of throwing a tantrum in bed. She's got her legs, laying on her stomach with her face in the pillow. And she's kind of crying and throwing a tantrum. But I don't know what about at all. I cannot... I just don't know what it's about. And then like maybe my aunt was there or something and they take out a newspaper that I'm pretty sure was in Assyria. And my mom's complaining about something that's in the newspaper that's either about her or me or somebody. It's like... That's not... They should have done it this way or... I don't know. I'm not sure what she's saying and my aunt's kind of trying to explain it. But I literally have no idea what they were talking about. And so I leave and as I'm in the corridor... There's like these kind of dark corridors, dimly lit. I see people coming in and out of their apartments and some of the people recognize me. [00:32:59]

They're all kind of around our age or whatever and they... And even a few of them are like, "Oh, hey. There's (inaudible) Hey. What's up man?" Or something like that. And I'm like, "Hey," you know, as if I kind of recognize them. But no idea who these people are. And as I go down the floor, it gets noisier. This is insane. And I get to a particular floor where it's fucking mobbed with people. Like I can barely move. And, as I look over, there's these people... There's like a huge... It's like a banquet or something. And I'm talking like... It looked like there were thousands of people kind of like dancing and kind of like formal or whatever. Okay? (LAUGHTER) And this one dude... But it looked like maybe there was like a, you know, like airport security, to actually get into the actual dancing part. So this one dude was like, "Hey, do you mind if I just walk through with you? I just want to get in." You know? Whatever. [00:33:57]

And I was like, "No. I'm not going dancing," or whatever it was. So I go... I leave and I go up to the street. I get up to the street, still can't find my car, and now I start getting more anxious and kind of foggy feeling about it. Then I find it and now I'm driving and totally driving erratic. I'm all foggy. I can't... I feel like I'm blacking out and I'm suddenly realizing that I'm driving. You know what I'm talking about? I'm in the wrong lane. I'm not hitting anything. But I'm in the wrong lane and then I also realize even though it was the Square, like it's as if like you take a right...You know? But there were like these huge fucking boulevards, like majestic with like statues and shit like that. And I'm coming back into the Square as if... And on the right, there's like this crazy park with like a huge fucking monument to Marx or I don't know who the fuck it was. [00:35:15]

And the weird thing is, I'm like, "Oh, that's where that is." Because I was like, "Oh, I think Pete (ph), my friend Pete told me about this or someone told me..." I don't fucking know. But like monuments like totally majestic and all this shit. Now the weird thing is, I get back... (PAUSE) Oh, and as I'm driving... I've never done this in my dreams. I slap myself to like wake up so I can drive better. And it kind of works for second. So I don't know that... Like somehow... Because it was even like vision. Like I couldn't see very well. Anyway, I get back to where ever I was. And now two thing... Again, I don't know if these dreams happened different. I'm suddenly... I can't find my car again. One and two, I'm suddenly in an elevator or somewhere again on that street or whatever it was. And I'm with these, like one girl, this girl Pam (ph) that I dated like for two weeks or whatever and some other girl that's kind of sexual. [00:36:17]

Not in a bad... You know, nothing bad. But nothing particularly great. Just kind of... They were kind of smiling and I'm smiling or whatever but... I don't know what that was. But anyway, then I'm back trying to find my car. I find it and I see that there's shit under the car. And it's my car. I see my license plate and all that. There's all this shit under my car, like the air conditioner from my apartment, the Sony black recorder that I used to record on when I was a kid that my mom used for interviews when she was a, and I used for playing music, some boxes were under there. One of the license, my license plate is under there. [00:37:01]

And I'm like... I'm literally like what... So no one stole my car but they took everything out and put it under the... And then I go to the front and the whole front grill and bumper are gone. And then at that point, I woke up like kind of with a start and I was so relieved that I have my car. Yeah.

THERAPIST: It's a saga.

CLIENT: Right? I've never seen a dream quite like that especially one I can remember in such detail.

THERAPIST: A lot of detail and unfolding the story.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: What do you make of it?

CLIENT: I have no... I mean, I don't know. The Matthew one, obviously, getting out of the, you know, money, traveling, makes sense. The bowling... I don't know why was I so good at it? You know? I don't know. Why was my mom in some apartment building in the Square and what... I don't know what the fuck her tantrum was about and what that newspaper was. The car and all that... I mean, I guess it's a journey. I mean, I'm trying to get somewhere. But I don't know... You know? There's so much going on that I feel kind of foggy about it I guess. I don't know. And why was everything so majestic and grand?

THERAPIST: You know, there's a way this is kind of a saga of trying to find yourself. There's a car, there's a lot of (inaudible at 00:38:51)

CLIENT: Oh. I didn't think about that. The car is myself. Interesting. And all this stuff that obviously would not be in my car is under the car. Yeah. [00:39:03]

THERAPIST: Or even... I mean, it starts off in a way that you're going to travel and you're going to make money and it's a kind of fantastic starting thing...

CLIENT: Kind of yeah. But even then, like why TJMaxx? Why am I... And why is there a banquet with thousands of people? Like...

(PAUSE)

THERAPIST: Well, that's what it sounds like it moves into actually as it goes along. There are more real things and then like this grand banquet, like you go in, go dancing (inaudible at 00:39:45) time where everything is perfect and lovely and... But you say, "No thanks. I'm actually going to..."

CLIENT: Interesting.

THERAPIST: And you continue on the journey. It's much harder than going in and having a good party.

CLIENT: Yeah. That's true. Right? Yeah. Why not just go...

(PAUSE) [00:40:00]

THERAPIST: Trying to find your car, trying to find your car.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Then you find your car at the end and there's all this shit on it and it's like ordinary baggage, luggage. It's not curious.

CLIENT: But it's also very symbolic. Like that Sony recorder was a big part of my life. Maybe... Yeah. I was driving before that. So maybe that's why it was all grandiose. Maybe that was not the real... You know?

THERAPIST: Oh yeah, yeah. It's like the grand version of wanting to be a rock star, you know, this monument (inaudible at 00:40:45) that you're passing by and eventually finding the real stuff of your life under your car.

CLIENT: Right. That's great. I've never seen a dream like that. It was unusual.

(PAUSE) [00:41:00]

And also, you know, it's interesting. Not letting my mom get to me. That was actually a very small part of the dream. It was a blip. You know?

THERAPIST: Yes.

CLIENT: It's like I came back when I heard her crying or whatever. But I was like, "I don't know what the fuck you're talking about." I just left.

THERAPIST: And you called it a tantrum. It's like she's being... This is the child part of her that comes out and (inaudible) There's something... It's not her. It's the authority telling you what to think about yourself.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: (inaudible) I wonder what TJMaxx is. They're black boots?

CLIENT: Yeah. They were like those... What the hell are those called?

(PAUSE) [00:42:00]

I have like a shitty version just for like winter.

THERAPIST: Uggs? (LAUGHTER)

CLIENT: What the fuck? How long have you known me? No. The... Those fucking boots like from Australia. You can just pop them right now. No tie, no buckle, no nothing. Fuck.

THERAPIST: (LAUGHTER)

CLIENT: You do know them. You do know what they are.

THERAPIST: I'm sure I would.

CLIENT: Yeah. They're like this and like here, there's like a kind of like elasticity just...

THERAPIST: (LAUGHTER)

CLIENT: They're not Rockports (ph). They're Blundstones (ph). Do you know what I'm talking about?

THERAPIST: I think they're... I know what you're talking about.

CLIENT: You do. You do. You see them a lot. They're kind of like a 60's like the Beatles... Kind of that... They just... You just kind of can pull it on, very simple, very sleek, whatever. Like that. Like that. [00:43:03]

THERAPIST: So they're... For you, they mean comfortable but also fashionable.

CLIENT: Yes. Yeah. But the thing was I wasn't there to look for those. I wasn't...

THERAPIST: Oh.

CLIENT: I was there for some weird thing connected with Matthew and like science books. And there were even like scientific words. When I saw Matthew, I was like, "Oh, yeah. This works." And they were nonsensical words. I know that because I... Like one of them was like "fenova" or some shit like that. And I was telling him like, "Yeah. So dude. What are those words? What are we going to do with those?" Or something like that. And there was a guy at TJ Maxx helping me, some clerk dude. And finally, I was like, "Oh, you know what? These are awesome. I'll take those." Or something like that. (PAUSE) I mean, I don't know. We used to go there when I was little. Are you from here?

THERAPIST: No. [00:43:57]

CLIENT: Oh okay. Yeah. There was a place like TJ Maxx.

THERAPIST: And what was it like?

CLIENT: It... What was it like?

THERAPIST: Yeah. What did it mean to you?

CLIENT: Not much. Just where my grandma and aunt or my mom, yeah, they'd go. It's a very neutral...

THERAPIST: Your (inaudible at 00:44:21) would go?

CLIENT: Oh yeah, yeah. I'd be little and they'd take me with them shopping. But I don't have any like bad connotations or... I don't have any particular connotations with it.

(PAUSE)

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:44:51)

CLIENT: What's that?

THERAPIST: (inaudible)

CLIENT: Yeah. Thanks. I'll see you Wednesday.

THERAPIST: Wednesday. Yeah.

CLIENT: Have a good weekend.

THERAPIST: You too.

END TRANSCRIPT