TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: You know what I've realized? That my coffee's like a safety blanket. I always have to have it even if I'm going to be like five... Because I parked right there. I was like... Because I kind of hate Levi's Coffee (ph).

THERAPIST: I wondered that. Is that... You do that here or is that you do that everywhere?

CLIENT: I'm sorry?

THERAPIST: Coffee...

CLIENT: Yeah. Coffee's a thing. It's in... I used to think it was like very particular to my dad's family. But I've noticed it... Like the guys at Christian's (ph), they're always... It's some kind of... And I'm like that too. Because I'm not going to finish this. I'm going to toss it and I'm going to get another one. Like it's just a... And even then... Or a store or whatever. If I go to work or whatever, generally, I get that one coffee and I generally don't finish... It's just like a... I mean, it's good. That way I'm not drinking several cups of coffee a day. [00:01:09]

But it's like a... (PAUSE) I don't know what that is. I mean, it's not like an oral fixation or whatever. But it's some kind of... It's comforting.

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:01:19)

CLIENT: Yeah. It's comforting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just comforting. You know, maybe I like the going into a coffee shop, getting the coffee... There's something about it. I don't know what it is. But, yeah, I noticed it. I've noticed some other people who were always seemed to have a cup of coffee somewhere.

THERAPIST: What do you think it would be like if you were to not have it? Like what if you just came here instead of running to Levi's?

CLIENT: I don't think anything would happen. I don't think it would really be that different to be honest with you. It's just there are plenty of times when I don't have it and I'm... You know?

(PAUSE) [00:02:00]

CLIENT: It's just... Part of it is I think I like it. You know? I think I like doing something and having a cup of coffee with me. Yeah. I don't know. I just thinking... It's like... It's interesting. It's like...

THERAPIST: But even if, you know... People have smoke or chew gum or... It can feel like something's missing or they can feel more exposed.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: They're somehow...

CLIENT: Maybe.

THERAPIST: It can be like a thing in between...

CLIENT: Maybe, maybe.

THERAPIST: ...two people where the focus is on the coffee really instead of...

CLIENT: Right, right, right. Yeah, yeah. No. I thought about that. That way when you're talking or when I'm talking, I can kind of like go to the coffee and...

THERAPIST: Exactly. Something else to attend to...

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

THERAPIST: ...distract you.

CLIENT: Yeah. I wonder if that's why my dad drank, my dad's side, maybe that's why they, they have such a good attitude but maybe that's part of it. The coffee helps them to kind of stay more aloof or whatever. And same with these guys actually. [00:03:01]

I don't know. But it's something. I'm sure it has something to do with something. Yeah. (PAUSE) Well, and in that regard, my mom's side should have more coffee. (LAUGHTER) They don't have it at all. You know? And it's like they should probably do something, have something like that to take their mind off their misery. (PAUSE) And, as a matter of fact, while my aunt's here, I do notice... Because then they do have coffee. Now there's three of them. So they'll make Assyrian coffee. It's kind of like espresso, you know, whatever. And I notice that that's nice. It adds, you know... There's something to that, you know, having this like... It's not really dinner. It's not... So it's not stressful. It's not making all this shit. It's just, you know, a cup of coffee with a cookie or whatever. I don't know. [00:04:05]

I think it's... (PAUSE) But so...

THERAPIST: You know, when you think about two people who say, "Let's meet for coffee." They're meeting... It creates a kind of third thing in between them...

CLIENT: Yeah. Exactly.

THERAPIST: ...that they're meeting about and for. They didn't say, "Let's just meet."

CLIENT: Right, right, right. Well, people do. But yeah... It's a common phrase.

THERAPIST: But they have coffee or they have lunch. You know, so...

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or whatever. "Let's meet for a beer."

THERAPIST: Yeah. So there's something that gets sort of put in the middle. It mediates. I think I'm just going back to your word security blanket. Like it makes it safer.

CLIENT: Absolutely.

THERAPIST: I don't think just for you.

CLIENT: Oh yeah. I think it's pretty common. Other people have other things and then...

THERAPIST: Yeah. Whatever it is...

CLIENT: Whatever...

THERAPIST: ...that puts some, something in between. [00:05:03]

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. (PAUSE) Yeah. So... I don't know. So Uma (ph) is coming tomorrow to visit which kind of... (SIGH) She kind of just reserved a room and she's coming tomorrow. It's kind of annoying a little bit. But...

THERAPIST: You don't want her to?

CLIENT: Well, I mean, we were playing it by ear and she just booked a room. I mean, I don't know. It's kind of like... (PAUSE) I'm in that very self-protective mode. You know what I mean? So I feel like I'm like being... I can't like not... She's coming all the way here. I can't like not see her for one night. I can't not see her. [00:06:05]

But it's just kind of like... (SIGH) I... I wasn't... We didn't talk. I didn't say, "Yes. Come up..."

THERAPIST: She did that without asking? Is that what you mean?

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah.

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:06:17)

CLIENT: Well, she threw it out there last week that, "Hey, I'm off Thursday, Friday." I was like, "Well, let's play it by ear. Just... I don't know. Things have been so... That's just the way it is." And she was like, "You know, it's the World Series." And I'm like, "What the..." That's even worse, actually, if they have to go to a game seven... I mean, I'm not a sports fanatic but I'm a local kid. Like to go to the World... I don't want to watch it with some chick from... I mean, I'm going to want to watch it with my friends. So now it's like... I don't know. It's just kind of odd. I was like... I don't know.

(PAUSE) [00:07:00]

Right? It's a little... It's also quite a drive. I feel like we didn't even really... What's going on here? I don't know. So... And we also had... We kind of did... She was like, "I don't know. I don't know if you're quite as into this as I am." And I was like... I was like, "You know, I understand." I was like, "I am completely... There's just a lot. I'm trying to sort out a lot of things. Yeah. I can't be that, whatever the word is... You know?" But yeah.

THERAPIST: And you're not that into her? Does it feel like it's (inaudible at 00:07:51)

CLIENT: Well, I think the problem now is it's all we talked about. Yeah. I can't tell anymore. I'm all over the place. I'm talking to some chicks in San Diego. I might want to go see... I'm all over the place because, on the one hand, I so want to just have a normal fucking relationship with somebody. (LAUGHTER) [00:08:11]

On the other hand, I don't trust any of it. So, because of that, it's making me very (PAUSE) like, yeah... I'm just hesitant. I don't want to... Unless I'm really feeling something that whatever, I'm not, you know, I'm just not interested. I have too many other things going on. I'm not, you know...

(PAUSE)

THERAPIST: And how much is it that when it's clear she's interested in you, you become uninterested.

CLIENT: Right. That's the other thing. Exactly. Yeah.

THERAPIST: It started off being she's healthy, seems normal, cool... [00:09:03]

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, but on the other hand, I think some of it is I've become much more of a realist. I've been... Like what's going to happen? I'm not going to go... What? How is this going to work? You know what I mean? You have to really spend time with someone to get serious with them. Right? So that's one. So that's a lot of fucking effort back and forth. But, two, then what? So it's going to be another one of those things where someone has to move for somebody and... You know? Like I... That's... I'm not... That's... I might go to Assyria to teach. You know?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Like...

THERAPIST: I was just thinking of that. You're thinking of leaving the country soon.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah.

THERAPIST: How does that fit in?

CLIENT: See like San Diego to me feels different that way because it is a few hours closer but also, I feel like it's San Diego and I feel like the kind of women that are there are a little more... They're also in that, like, "Yeah, let's move to Europe." [00:09:59]

There's a little more... (PAUSE) It's just... It's San Diego. You know? There's a lot more of that feel in San Diego where people are living much more unconventional kind of lives. You know? (PAUSE) I don't know. I have no idea. But... Yeah. I've gotten very self... Last night there was a chick. She wanted me to just like come over. And I didn't. I really wanted to. But I was catching myself. I was like... I just got out of practice. I had a beer. I'm hungry. It's already like eleven. I was like, "Alright. Let me eat something and see how I feel." And I knew. I knew that once I ate something and kind of took a breath... I don't want to go to someone... What? No. You know? So I think I'm just getting very...

(PAUSE) [00:11:00]

But it's also still like the bane of my fucking existence, this... Yeah, the woman thing is... It's really floated up, you know, as other things have gotten sorted out. That's floated to the top as being the fucking Achilles heel of... You know?

(PAUSE)

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:11:51) smothering and critical. It makes sense.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: There's a lot of complicated feeling around getting close to anyone.

CLIENT: Yeah. And also it's just hitting me more. When you're more lucid, things hit you more. So I'm like, "Fuck." Like, are you kidding? I haven't had one? I've had lots of relationships but not... [00:12:15]

I can't look back on one and be like, "Wow. That was such a kind of... That had a normal rhythm to it or something. There was a rhythm." None of them had fucking rhythm. They were either like intensely passionate things that then tried to be relationships for like six months or a year or whatever... Like that's... That's crazy. You know? And then I started feeling... That's the thing. Then I feel more frustrated. I feel like Darien is not the kind of... For the kind of woman I want, Darien is not that place. Those women aren't here as much. You know? [00:13:01]

So that's frustrating as well because that ties into like, well, I don't have the money to like hop down to San Diego every single weekend or whatever. You know? So it's just... It's a bummer. You know? The whole thing's kind of... They all tie in with each other. Then they start feeling like you're falling behind because you're a little bit older. So when is this going to happen? So... It's just...

(PAUSE)

THERAPIST: I also think perhaps there's maybe a possibility that there's a layer of what happens when women happening with this woman in here.

CLIENT: What woman?

THERAPIST: Me.

CLIENT: Oh.

THERAPIST: In other words, there's a possibility of really getting more into the well and the layers under the well and the layers under that well in here too. And there's also the exit strategy of getting out soon. [00:14:03]

Like going to Assyria. I mean, I know that's not what it is consciously for you. But I think the very thing that could play out over there is what happens in here. What are the fears (inaudible at 00:14:19) and do you get hurt there? Do you get criticized? Do you get revealed in some way that's going to be humiliating the way your mother would humiliate you that could make kind of like the very thing about commitment and actually getting into something with a woman play out here in a way too. You're in but you're not really. You know? One foot in, one foot out.

CLIENT: Yeah. I mean, I don't feel that. But yeah. With relationships, definitely. There's no question. I mean, I'm not like... [00:15:01]

That's the thing, right? I'm not blaming... I don't blame Michelle (ph). I don't blame Samantha (ph). Like when you take full accountability of your share, that's... That's... I'm like, "Well, yeah. Fuck." You know? I'm clearly kind of not capable in a way. You know what I mean? If I had just done a couple of things a little bit differently, any one of those girls I'd still be dating or even married to. Like I'm... Samantha I'm not sure because she was so aloof from the get go. But even with her, I mean, we did do relationship... I mean, in some ways, that was the most comforting moments. [00:16:03]

You know, she'd make soup. You know, like we'd just sit and... You know, like... You know, that's... What am I trying to say? Yeah. Like now I see that was me too. Like if I just... If it was me now, I'd either not be with those people or, if I was with those people, I'd see different signs very clearly. Like I would have been like, "Something's going on with Samantha. It's not me. It's... You know, something may either be off or..." I'm not going to act all in love with her. You know what I mean? (inaudible at 00:16:41) You know what I mean? And... (PAUSE) So yeah. So like that's a bummer too. You know what I mean? Or... That's what I keep bringing up with Meredith (ph), the ultimate, I mean, someone who clearly wanted to like get married and, I mean, like clearly. So... And made sacrifices for that. [00:17:01]

So that's, that's fucking... That's a bummer. That really brings... That makes me really sad. Because then if it didn't work out later, it could have not worked out in a way that things don't work out sometimes instead of just this typical kind of... (PAUSE) You know?

THERAPIST: Instead of what? What's your (inaudible at 00:17:27)

CLIENT: Well, it's like a super nova. Like these things, they start like a supernova, they end like a... You know what I mean? They start with these crazy passionate romantic kind of things and that's kind of how they end with really not much discussion. I haven't had any discussion with any of these people really. And other than Meredith, you know, some like embarrassment and feeling humiliated, confused, and angry and all that shit. You know?

(PAUSE) [00:18:00]

THERAPIST: You're saying other than Meredith. That's not how it ended with Meredith.

CLIENT: Well, with Meredith, I was the one...

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: You know, she didn't want that to happen. And I... There was no... I just bought a ticket here for Christmas...

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: ...and I left her there and I came home. You know? But that too is a... There are all these kind of like abrupt, just messy... Like that's not me. You know, in those moments, that's... Whether it's me doing the leaving or me feeling...

THERAPIST: Or you're feeling left.

CLIENT: ...yeah, left or whatever.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: It's like that's... (PAUSE) But, in both cases, that's on me. Right? With Samantha, all that bad shit happened because, you know, I wasn't needy. I was just needing what's normal in a relationship. But if someone's your girlfriend or boyfriend... But I wasn't stopping myself. That's great if that's what I want but that's not what's happening here. [00:19:07]

So I'm not going to like push it, you know, I mean, too much. I'm not going to buy her flowers and she doesn't like surprises or what the fuck. I'm just not going to do anything. You know... You know what I mean? What I would do now. You know? And same with Michelle... Like I went to the bar where she works because she had taken me there one time and then the last time I went, it's like... And it's not about fault or not. It's just not seeing clearly. You know, and in all those cases I didn't do anything wrong. I mean, they were definitely being assholes in those cases. It's just... I just wish I... You know what I mean?

THERAPIST: What do you wish you had seen with Michelle, for example? What do you see (inaudible at 00:19:49)

CLIENT: Oh. That I was right to break up with her. I was the one that broke up with here. Right? And I should have just stuck with that. That's what I see.

THERAPIST: Instead of coming back to her. [00:19:57]

CLIENT: Yeah. Because then what happened was, you know, I'm like, "Oh, I'm not going to find someone as beautiful as her. She's so fucking gorgeous and..." That happened. You look around you and like, yeah, I'm not going to... Dating's hard. You know what I mean? So you trick yourself into... Especially if you're someone who's sensitive and putting yourself down and all that shit. Right? And same with Samantha. Right? I was the one a couple times who was like, "Yeah, you know what? I'm going to go." And then she's sorry and this and that and then... Right? So...

(PAUSE)

THERAPIST: So with at least the two of them, the regret is not trusting your own (inaudible) more (inaudible at 00:20:41)

CLIENT: Well, no. With all of them it is. With Meredith too. Right? I should have trusted that, wait a minute, fucking love this girl. What am I talking about? I meet this girl randomly. We have like... I mean, this is what people later tell as their story. Right? [00:20:59]

Just randomly met her, a few months later she gives up her plans and moves to England for me. Like that's amazing. That's what I should have trusted, that there's something there worth...

THERAPIST: So trusting both...

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: ...but both because (inaudible at 00:21:11)

CLIENT: Yeah. Okay. We're not having sex... I mean, when I think about it, it's like a lot of people don't have sex for a long period of time. But I was so... I was so used to the opposite that... And because I wasn't who I am now, that that immediately was like, "Oh, she's so beautiful. See? I knew it. She's so beautiful and she's young and she's probably like, 'What the fuck am I doing?' all that shit." And without stopping to think, "Well no one's... She could just go back to..." I mean, she's not a fucking prisoner here. She came all the way around the world to be here. That's... You know? Like that didn't even compute. Because she wasn't... She was going through some stuff and I just forgot about all that. [00:22:01]

You know? I just... It's kind of childish. You know? It's like... (PAUSE) Or not childish but just you're seeing things through a fog. You're not seeing them... You know?

THERAPIST: Or seeing things absorbed in your own anxiety about yourself.

CLIENT: Yeah. You're projecting. Right, right, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

THERAPIST: And sex (inaudible t 00:22:29) had been a bump in the road that you'd have to deal with with her but you were so used to that at the time being a thing that proved someone loved you.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, with her, it was especially tricky. I think it would have been maybe different if in the beginning, the sex was totally there and then... You know? But it was never really there. So... But, again, I didn't stop to think that that's because she has... I mean, she could be with whoever she wants. A girl like that could be... I mean, any girl... I mean, even the ugliest girl could be with whoever she wants for the most part. [00:23:05]

This girl... People like... She could definitely be with whoever she wants. So... You know what I mean. Like I didn't stop to (inaudible at 00:23:11) that shit out. And also, I could have been like, "Yeah, she's young. So, in a way, I should be the one..." I mean, that was probably part of the attraction. I mean, she probably, I think, liked feeling kind of taken care of or just kind of like "this guy knows what he's doing, he's passionate about these things and he's doing them," like, you know... You know? So I didn't stop to think, "You know, she's 24..."

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:23:45)

CLIENT: What's that?

THERAPIST: But she was admiring you.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. That may be part of what she was feeling. And she used to say that, you know, "What am I doing? I'm not doing anything. You have these things that you're absolutely focused on and I just don't know what I'm doing or how would I even do those things?" [00:24:03]

You know? Like it's just... I don't know. That stuff just makes me sad. Like I didn't... You know... If it was me now, I would have taken a very different path with all that. You know? So it's... Yeah. It's just a bummer man. That's really... (PAUSE) Because I'm also... See the thing is when you get to this place, you also know you can't just replicate shit. You know, I can't look for another Meredith thing or another... It's just... You've got to absolutely start from scratch. It's...

(PAUSE)

THERAPIST: It's sad.

(PAUSE) [00:25:00]

CLIENT: And the other thing is, you know, with women I've noticed there's one very important thing I've done in the rest of my life that they've kind of had, I thought I was doing it but I'm not like... With everything else, I do what I set my mind to. Right? This, writing, music, getting into this shit back school, whatever, graduate school... Like I tend to see those things... [00:26:01]

I feel like I'm pretty good at manifesting things that I'm absolutely just like fucking focused on. You know what I mean? When it comes to women, I thought I was because it was just based on looks. And so that was true. I was making it, you know... Yeah. I was dating a lot of really cute girls. But now I'm realizing, I've never stopped to be like, "Okay. What exactly do I..." It's funny. Like I've never asked myself...

THERAPIST: What exactly...

CLIENT: Like what do I want? Like what kind of woman do I want to have? You know what I mean? I've never done that really. And now that I am, that's why I'm like, "Darien? I don't know if Darien's good for that." You know? Like if I was to get really, really like married or whatever, it would be cool if like she had an EU passport or... You know? Like I want something way more dynamic. [00:26:59]

And... It's not impossible to find here but there would have to be some fucking academic type. You know what I mean? (PAUSE) That's why I like Vancouver. You know, I like that idea of (PAUSE) you know, just a much more dynamic...

THERAPIST: A more wordly...

CLIENT: Yeah. A legitimately cosmopolitan type...

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:27:29)

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Darien can be (inaudible at 00:27:35)

CLIENT: I'm sorry?

THERAPIST: Darien cannot be...

CLIENT: Yeah. Darien's provincial. And that's what I love about it. I love that it's... I get in my car and I drive down cute little streets and I come to see you and now I go to some other cute street and I see my friend. I mean, this is ridiculous. It's like a little... We're living in a little fantasy land here, in terms of the US. Right? And it's great. But it's not so great if that's the kind of romantic relationship you want unless you're going to be with some pretentious douche. You know? [00:28:05]

So, again, that's why San Diego is a little bit better. Although, even there, again, you know, how often can you come and go back to San Diego. So it's like, so, yeah, what do I do about that? You know? (PAUSE) And that's why... It's like now I see... I really have had no choice this whole time. Like the PhD has to get done, my book has to get... There's no other way for me. I can't... If that's what I want, just for me at least, there's no other way. I mean, the music as well... The music's there. I mean, I don't... But in terms of really solidifying the ingredients I would need to... That's what I need. [00:29:11]

Even if I got a job tomorrow, that's good. But it's just good for money. It's not for... Even the best job... I can't go to Europe every weekend. I mean, you're here. That is what it is. So... (PAUSE) (SIGH)

THERAPIST: You're really trying to think more about what you want to be five years from now.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. I'm being a life coach. You know? I'm getting better and better at when I wake up in the morning, how can, what kind of days do I want to inhabit? And this is much better. Everything's much... Then... I mean, this is a transitional time. But, you know, this is...

(PAUSE) [00:30:00]

You know, that's a big... Yeah. That's... I was like, "Yeah, you know..." Girls who have been into me but I'm not... Maybe some of that isn't this stuff. You know? Some it I think really... They are kind of boring to me. And I just said that in here. I'm just... (PAUSE) I'm not going to stay faithful. I also know myself. I'm not going to stay faithful to that kind of a person. I'm just not. You know? It's a blessing and a curse to be like a serious artist, like an intense... Things happen. You know? Sometimes you can't control your... You know? You're living your life kind of like art, or at least I'm trying to. [00:31:03]

So that gets into a lot of grey areas. You know? You meet people and if they really spin your head... If I'm married or with someone that... You know? I'm not going to... I just know it. I'm not going to think twice. You know? I'm going to feel bad. But I'm still going to do it. That's how I am. So...

(PAUSE)

THERAPIST: And yet you'll also worry as much on the other side that she'll do that to you too.

CLIENT: Who will?

THERAPIST: Whoever she is.

CLIENT: Mmm... Not so much anymore.

THERAPIST: No?

CLIENT: I don't think so. A lot of chicks I've been talking to online or whatever... Like I... No. I'm just not anymore for some reason.

THERAPIST: I don't mean anyone. I mean someone you actually (inaudible at 00:32:01)

CLIENT: Oh, if I was like falling in love with someone.

THERAPIST: Yes. [00:32:03]

CLIENT: Well... But even there, I think just... Well, I might but now I know... Now I know. That's...

THERAPIST: I'm sure there are people who bore you and that's why you're not interested. That's probably a majority actually.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah.

THERAPIST: And yet there's still maybe something about the woman who's hard to get.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. Oh yeah. No. I'm not discounting any of this. I'm just saying it kind of feels good to not just beat myself up and say, "With Valerie (ph) I could..." No Valerie was boring and she annoyed me. She talked too much.

THERAPIST: That's as much what you're talking about as actually the more you're getting to know your own mind, you get to look back on some of these relationships. That's why some of them you start of saying all the regret but when you actually say what would have happened had you known yourself better, it would have ended earlier. [00:33:01]

CLIENT: Right, right, right.

THERAPIST: That's actually what's, the regret, not that the relationship didn't work out...

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: ...not everyone...

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. You could even say with Meredith, even though I feel sad, it wouldn't have even gotten that far.

THERAPIST: Exactly. Who knows?

CLIENT: When I met her here... No. It wouldn't have. You're right. It wouldn't have. Because those first few, they were hard. She was hard on me. She wasn't meaning to be. She just was. That's because she was... Again, she was going through some shit. If it was now, I'd be like, "Yeah..." You know? This has to be a little more... The difference with her though was she was always calling and texting and... So she wasn't being aloof. But... Yeah. I think I would have been, "Eh... This chick's 24. I don't know." You know?

THERAPIST: I mean, in a way with her, you're saying there was actually the most potential of anyone.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

THERAPIST: And who knows what would, if you could deal with that in a different way.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: But also the point is you don't know.

CLIENT: Right. [00:33:57]

THERAPIST: You might have gotten tired of her earlier on...

CLIENT: Very true.

THERAPIST: ...and said, or said, "Why is she willing to move with me after so little time? What's up with her?"

CLIENT: Very true.

THERAPIST: You know?

CLIENT: Very true.

THERAPIST: I mean, there's so much...

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

THERAPIST: ...uncertainty about how this would have played out.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And I think part of it is you're actually getting pickier now, in a way, about what actually works for you.

CLIENT: Right, right, right, right, right. Yeah. Yeah, no. It's like... It's like now I have the... I get it now. I need someone who has some profession they're really into, you know, and who's much more cosmopolitan, worldly person. You know? Darien tricks you. See? Darien's tricky with that. You meet a lot of girls who... They kind of dress the part. They, yeah, they have some job that's kind of interesting. But, at the end of that day, their mom and dad live in Weymouth (ph). You know what I mean? [00:34:53]

Like... That's awesome. There's nothing wrong with that. I just haven't found one of those girls yet to be like, whoa, I just want to talk to this girl and like, you know... And I want to cancel practice to be with this girl. You know? No. I... I'd rather be at home with my cat or whatever. So that's... You know what I mean? (PAUSE) On the other side of that, I also know that the kind of girl I'm describing is usually more of a problem. (LAUGHTER) So I get it. You know? But... (PAUSE) But then, you know, I'm a problem. You know what I mean? I'm not an easy boyfriend, I'm sure. I'm... Not as a bad guy. But it's hard to get to know me and, you know, like... So...

(PAUSE) [00:36:00]

THERAPIST: I think I've actually heard you change quite a bit over the last year or so in you're starting to say at least out loud, even if it's not totally transparent that you want her, whoever she is, to be less aloof.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: You don't want to be playing like a guessing game about is her heart there or not. And actually the direct indication, the checking in, the texts, the being there has actually felt good.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: It's not... It doesn't feel as exciting anymore to have her be like there one day and gone the next.

CLIENT: Yeah. Because now I don't care. I can be gone too. I can play that... You know, I've learned now how to do all that shit.

THERAPIST: You've learned but you're always saying you're tired (inaudible at 00:36:49)

CLIENT: That's what I'm saying. I'm not impressed by it or it's not a turn on or something.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I mean (inaudible at 00:36:55) bandmates or in writing, right? Just, in general... Why don't I go to poetry readings? Because they're shitty poets acting like they're not shitty poets. Why do I not go to a lot of shows? Because the music sucks and they think they're so cool. [00:37:11]

You know, and those people are out there, these kind... I mean, obviously I have a band that's full of those people. I know... You know? It's just you've got to... It's about being a little more picky and seeing those differences, you know, instead of getting sucked in by the girl with the certain look and the... And it's hard. I mean, we all... Guys... We're kind of dumb. You know, I'm not the only one. One of my guy friends, he can't help it. He just gets drawn into so a certain allure, a certain whatever. And that's fine. You can say someone's attractive...

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: ...or even have a, hook up with them. But as long as you know what's what. That's the difference. You know, in the past... See, in the past, I should have been, "Shit. I just hooked up with Samantha." Like I should have been more like a guy in the past about these things. [00:38:05]

Like, "Shit. Fucking beautiful." But instead, I immediately just, you know, just blood everywhere, heart out there... You know? Same with Michelle, same... It should have just been more like, "Damn right. That's what I'm talking about." You know? And just go from there and if it's something, it is. If it isn't, what an awesome just another chalk it up. You know? But I didn't do that. So...

(PAUSE)

THERAPIST: You know, another slightly less gendered way of putting it than "I should have just been a guy" is thinking more about intense erotic feeling as being (inaudible at 00:38:47)

CLIENT: That's what I mean. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

THERAPIST: That's... Like it's great. It's something. It's not nothing. It's really important.

CLIENT: Right, right, right.

THERAPIST: But it's only one part of a whole relationship with a person.

CLIENT: Right, right, right, right, right.

THERAPIST: There's so much more. And when you bring in the stuff of marriage, like... [00:39:01]

CLIENT: Well, that's one... I guess what I mean by a guy or a woman, whatever... I just mean if that was more like just about me... Do you know what I mean? Like, "Yeah. This is great but I'm going to get up tomorrow and like see what's going on with my PhD and..."

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:39:11)

CLIENT: Yeah. What was immediately everything... My days revolved around...

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: ...you know, when am I going to hear from Samantha or what are our plans for that night.

THERAPIST: Yes.

CLIENT: You know, everything revolved around... And that's, that's absurd. That's just... That's insane. So...

THERAPIST: That's, I think, what I'm trying to (inaudible at 00:39:31) the erotic like this exciting perfect woman and this sexual experience that happens became, it like took over the whole view. When there's so many other parts to you too.

CLIENT: Exactly, exactly. Yeah.

THERAPIST: It's a slice.

CLIENT: Yeah.

(PAUSE)

THERAPIST: See you tomorrow.

CLIENT: Cool. Noon.

THERAPIST: Yes.

CLIENT: Nice. Thanks.

THERAPIST: Yep.

CLIENT: Have a good one.

(PAUSE) [00:40:00]

END TRANSCRIPT