TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: (inaudible) Son of a. . . all right, hopefully we'll take care of that soon.

THERAPIST: It only went up more so than usual because of the time (overlapping voices)

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, that's ok. So, are you ready for this?

THERAPIST: (chuckles)

CLIENT: Something kind of awesome happened to me, just in the last few days. So, you know George's brother, their older brother is here for the past weekend. He's a filmmaker. He's the oldest, so he's got to be like 59, 60, something like that. So, he's not back in the States very often. So, he can be pretty arrogant and kind of, you know, but I've just known them for so I also have a connection to him and one-on-one especially. We really, really, like always have amazing conversations. Anyway, but, what he helped me to get over this hump that I've been, I realized, is that I had it all articulated in my head when I was on my way here. So that, basically what's going on is that like Monday I was feeling really down. You know, I've been feeling down off and on, obviously, right? I realized something like pretty important which is that, and talking to him solidified this, which is that I'm kind of done apologizing, or feeling or being in a, by default, some kind of lesser-than or apologetic mode about being an artist. You know? [00:1:57]

THERAPIST: Mm-hmm

CLIENT: And, I don't know why but it suddenly clicked with me. It's just been so nice to spend time with him and like all our guys, with this Assyrian crew it gets even more There are a couple of them that aren't always here, but when they are it's like You know? I finally realized, "You know what? The first half of my life was spent constantly either feeling like shit for being who I am, feeling like I have to apologize for who I am, feeling like I'm lazy. Or being made to feel, directly or indirectly, like I'm somehow lazy or I just don't get it or I'm just not that I'm smart but I'm just not getting that this is just the way it is and you have to do "bah, bah, bah". I'm not doing that anymore. And this has been a process, right, starting with London. I'm just done. I'm fucking done. I don't have to apologize for shit. Other people should be apologizing. [00:03:00]

You know, artists and intellectuals are the people that get it. We've been saying all along that something is not right. Something is off-kilter? And that is what Charles was saying, you know. He's like, "Yeah, no". He's like, "Something bad is coming". You know. He's like, "This is-" Unfortunately, other parts of the world aren't that much better than it is here at this point. He's like, you know, it's just-Socially they're better, but then, in other ways, you know it's like the grass is always greener kind of thing.

But, it just felt validating to just realize that, ok, I'm on the right path here. Because that's what I realized. You know, I could go to Assyria and something else is going to be bad there. You know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Sure. [00:03:46]

CLIENT: It's all like I don't belong anywhere. I get that now. I don't belong anywhere. There's nowhere I'm going to go where I'm like, "This is it". That's just part of being Assyrian and part of being an artist. All these things. You know? But in a way, it's liberating to know that. You know? It's very liberating. Last night I was talking to Dave about that. We were both saying how, you know what, now we get it. Yeah, maybe we might end up being single for much longer than we thought or just because the kind of lifestyles we want to live are It's totally possible to meet someone amazing who wants to share that with you, but it's not going to be in the conventional sense, probably. And, it just is what it is. You know? [04:31]

THERAPIST: It's not necessarily settling down to a white picket fence. (overlapping voices)

CLIENT: Exactly. I don't know, that's made me I'm already bracing myself for the holidays. This year I really just don't want anything to do with the holidays. I just don't want them, to be honest with you.

THERAPIST: You really don't want your family's judgment.

CLIENT: Yeah. I just don't want to deal. I don't want to sit there for hours. It's just going to be tough, you know what I mean? All they do is talk politics and But, I think it's important to brace myself now so that when that happens, instead of getting angry or worked up, I can just tap into this and be like, "I'm done with this. This is so meaningless. You're sitting in your living room wherever and "Obama did this". Who the fuck gives a shit? [00:05:29]

I'm on a mission here. (chuckles) That, in turn, made me feel better about this reverse mortgage because, guess what? You know what? What's the worst-case scenario? We take the reverse mortgage, all hell fuck*g breaks loose and when my mom passes away I lose the house, it's gone, I'm done, right? You know what? I'm fine with that. That's a chance I'm willing to take because I realized, "You know what? This is no risk for my mom. On the contrary, this is awesome for my mom just from her perspective. She's not going to be around to give a shit whether the house is mine or [00:06:01]

THERAPIST: Yeah. The risk is for you.

CLIENT: That bothers her and all that because she's concerned about that. That's what she's And I love her for that, you know. She's like, "This is the one thing your dad and I did. This is your retirement. It's your 'bah, bah, bah'". But you know what? That's the risk I'm willing to take. It's a calculated risk and, if it pays off, then, you know what? I'm going to be, not loaded, but I will be comfortable. You know what I mean? And then, life-coaching, life-coaching, I don't give a fuck. I will be able to have some breathing space, to then If it is life coaching, I'll be able to do it without worrying about nickels and dimes and you know. You know what I mean? [00:06:45]

So, I'm pretty I don't know. I feel very Suddenly I feel a little more (pause) you know. Because, even that, it's like, I'm not going to apologize. Yeah, of course, who wants to take out a reverse mortgage if you don't have to, but you know what? I'm not making a million. I'm not going to apologize for that. You know what I mean? I want to use the equity we have in this fucking house. And unless I make 80 grand a year or 100 grand a year, the bank is not going to give me a dime. And you know what? I'm not going to make 80 grand. You know what I'm saying?

I'm finally, instead of being depressed about it, I'm choosing to just be positive that at least what an amazing thing we have here. Otherwise, this is fucked up, man. I mean to not get a response from one resume. Things are really bad. I don't care what anybody says. This is fucked up. And it's not going to get better next month. I'm not all of a sudden going to get a job that pays 80 grand a year. Yes, I probably will get some job, but 40 grand, 30 grand, 45. Around here, that's not cutting it. That's just not cutting it. [00:07:55]

It's not that I don't want that, it's just that doesn't make a big enough of a change. So, yeah. (pause) It's not like I'm happy about it but it's a very clear-eyed You know, I'm just tired of this shit. Like I'm tired of That's not how the second half of my life is going to go. I'm not going to apologize because I'm a talented artist and intellectual. You can go fuck yourselves. That's not going to happen. [00:08:34]

And I'm not going to argue. I don't want to get That's the thing. I have to temper my That's what I'm worried about. This is such an old I don't want to be at a family dinner and lose it. You know what I mean? Because I also know myself. If I lose my temper, I'm pretty brutal. And I catch people really off-guard. So, I don't want to do that. These people want the best for me. They're not trying to be dicks. You know what I mean? That's my own years and years of, you know.

THERAPIST: But there's something in the middle of, between losing your temper and feeling (inaudible) [00:09:20] (overlapping voices)

CLIENT: Yes, exactly. You know what? I really don't care about all those things. I'm an artist and I'm an intellectual and I don't have a problem. This country has a problem. This society has a problem. Your fucking precious capitalism, where the fuck do you think it came from? It came from intellectuals, not guys behind a desk at an accounting office or at a business. It came from dudes who were lazy and they sit around reading books and the very thing that made you rich comes from people who are thinkers, who are intellectuals, not people who were, you know, shuffling papers and waking up at 8 and going to an office and being productive. So, you know, this is just so absurd this whole thing. [00:10:05]

I don't even know. It's making me a little less angry now that When you just see things more clearly, it's so absurd. I'm going to get into an argument about some fucking business guys about like big questions of culture and FUCK that! FUCK that! It's completely pointless. (pause)

It's sad that it's not that much better anywhere else but it is better in the sense that the social aspects See, like, just my friend being here. All right. That was a big deal. That sense of That really changes things for me. I need that and I just don't have that here. I'm glad I have a couple of these amazing Assyrian friends but, see, it's only when Charles came here that that real kind of we have such good conversation. You know what I mean? Such heartfelt I was here with Tom. I was like, "This means so much to me" because here even if I have that conversation for five minutes, we have this American It's a disease. We can't continue. We have to say something sarcastic and just deflate it with a joke and then move on. At least that's my experience. [00:11:33]

It's hard for people to have prolonged conversations that aren't particularly uplifting. You know what I mean? They're just about some pretty serious shit. And I need that. I can't be in a bar anymore and be like, "Things are fucked up. Oh well! Boobs!" That's funny but I can't just have that. I need It has to be balanced. (pause)[00:12:01]

THERAPIST: It's been hard to do that even in here sometimes.

CLIENT: What?

THERAPIST: Prolonged, sustained attention to (crosstalk)

CLIENT: Yeah, it's hard .

THERAPIST: and painful

CLIENT: Yeah. And at the end of the day, I'm part of it, right? I'm as American as you get and I have a sense of humor. So, you start using that at such an It's not that other places they don't do that.

THERAPIST: Yeah. People are the same.

CLIENT: Of course. But there is, I think, in other cultures, people are just more connected to these issues because they just know more. And they feel it more in their daily lives. I think here we're just so fucking removed from everything that (pause). I don't know. (pause)

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:12:56) . . . the comfort of someone in your family, fathering you in a way, kind of saying, "Believe in yourself".

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: There's nothing wrong with -

CLIENT: Well, no, the best part You shouldn't even have to say that. By default he treats me, like, that's not a question. Like, what are you doing? What's your job? There's never a question.

THERAPIST: And I know you mean the little (crosstalk)

CLIENT: No, no, yeah, I know.

THERAPIST: That's the feeling you get from him. There's not, it's not judgment. It's full acceptance of you as an artist, as an intellectual. And he's in reality, in a way, saying, "It's not going to be that much better anywhere else".

CLIENT: Oh yeah. No. That's what I'm saying. Our conversation wasn't uplifting.

THERAPIST: Yes.

CLIENT: This is the Dark Ages. It's just as bad in You know Europe is fucked up now too. They're the other extreme. He's like, "They're having issues because they're so socialized that they have to reform that like it's all It's just like this Western model is just really fucked up. We've hit some kind of weird wall. People in Greece He's like, there's a super high suicide rate now in Greece." I mean, this, you know. [00:14:13] (pause)

THERAPIST: And, while contemplating the level of things that your average businessperson is not going to be contemplating, that is, in a way, who you are and where you are wanting to live in your mind (inaudible at 00:14:35) There's also the reality of how do you make ends meet? That is reality.

CLIENT: Exactly! And that's why this thing to me is so perfect. I was telling Dave yesterday, because I was like He's so Dave is very, not conservative, but he's very practical in a weird way. His life is completely impractical, but when these kinds of things come up he can be very "Are you sure?" And when we talked it out, he was like, "Yeah. It's a major risk" but he was like, "I get it." He was like, "You want to It will allow you to do the things you care about without jumping through hoops in some office". Or, if nothing else, it buys me time to make, to manifest the kind of job I want. Do you know what I mean? [00:15:31]

When you're a little bit more, less frazzled What the fuck is to stop I don't want to be, make it sound idealistic because, obviously, I know damn well that when I have a lot of time on my hands, even when I'm feeling great, it doesn't mean I'm writing a novel. That being said, I'm in a different mode right now. Now I see that really I don't have a choice. Now it isn't just some Why am I not writing my novel? I don't have a fucking choice now between the house, everything else I'm realizing is peripheral Life coaching might happen, might not, I don't know. Clearly I'm compelled in two areas of my life. So, one way or the other I have to make something happen with that. I don't have to be a best seller but I do need to keep I've already made things happen, so, you know. [00:16:28]

So if I just had a little bit of "Oh my mom's okay". Like, you know, I borrow her washer and dryer. She can go to the dentist if she wants. You know, just some basic fucking things. And she doesn't have to worry the rest of her life. That's it. Now it's on me. She has to worry about shit. She can stash away that tenant's money and whatever we do. That's a pretty I think that would be a big thing for me.

Or I might move to Assyria. Why don't I go visit it first? Right? Because now I can because I can afford a fucking plane ticket. You know what I mean? These are little things but they're huge things in terms of your (pause)

THERAPIST: Do you have a sense of-I mean I don't know enough about all the math behind the numbers about what the kind of risk is. Do you have a sense of what would make you regret it? [00:17:27]

CLIENT: Only one thing, which would be that when my mom I mean, obviously, God forbid, if we did the reverse mortgage and my mom passed away in like a year, God forbid, then that would be before I would have a chance to really do that much. In that case, I would have to immediately condo (ph) the house and figure out a way to Although, wait, that's not quite true because actually if it happened that quickly, the fact is I wouldn't have even used all that money. Right? A big chunk is just going to be sitting So then between that, giving that money back and selling one unit as a condo, that would be it. [00:18:15]

THERAPIST: So you would be able to keep two units, you think if she(overlapping voices)

CLIENT: Yeah, because so the whole thing-We're going to take what? 580? That's including the mortgage we have now. We would owe five, with interest, whatever, let's say 600,000. If I don't use a big chunk, if something happens, God forbid, very quickly and I have to pay it back, well, there's a big chunk I haven't even used yet to buy something else. So let's say that's 200,000, let's say. Well, if I condo the units and I sell The first floor would go for at least 350. If I condoed or if I wanted to condo the second floor with the third floor with my apartment, like make it a big kind of You're talking like 500 grand. So, and it would get paid back. It would not be great, but I wouldn't be like on the streets or It would suck. It would really suck, but That would be one. [19:13]

The other thing is my mom does live a long time, but somehow, if there's fucking Armageddon-all the property values are shit. You know, that's -

Now the good thing about reverse mortgages is they can't, all they can do is take your house. In other words, they can't like sue you. Whatever your house is worth, because you can't control that, they just take your house and that's that. So those are the ways that of course it would suck. But again, unless I was a total asshole and I just blew through all that money, how bad could it I don't know. Something really catastrophic would have to happen. I'd have to buy a condo, then just fucking World War III breaks out and the condo has no more value-You know, all that stuff. [00:20:19]

THERAPIST: And how would you not start going through all the money?

CLIENT: How would I not?

THERAPIST: Yeah. In other words, if that's what you're living on?

CLIENT: Well, no, the plan here is that that's the cushion until there's a job.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: And I'm still getting unemployment. This is my mom's reverse mortgage, not mine. I'm still fucking sending out resumes all day long so I'm assuming something is going If nothing else, Assyria is going to happen. So, just getting shit in order here, my mom is all set. I don't have to worry that my mom has to borrow fucking money from my uncle. She's all set; she's got a beautiful washer and dryer. And my mom, I know her, she's like saving all this fucking money from the tenant. My mom's not a big spender. She just wants to be comfortable. She just wants to be able to breathe in her retirement. [21:06]

Then I go to Assyria and, you know. Even if I don't buy that other condo, that money is like in a CD or whatever. We can't touch it.

THERAPIST: And in Assyria you think you can live off of what you'd make for adjunct teaching?

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. I talked to her. That stuff is becoming more clear. I don't know the exact amount. She's putting together something. She's like, "I'm sorry." She's like, "I'll try to put something together for you". Usually, she's like, it's after Christmas, you know like for the fall. You know, whatever. But I did let her know that I'm just trying to kind of plan out what I'm doing and I'm just, you know. There's actually a full-time job she told me to apply to as well.

THERAPIST: You had said that it wasn't right in your area (inaudible at 00:21:58)

CLIENT: No, this one is, well, yeah, it's not exactly but I think what she's trying to say is just (chuckling) apply to that. I think things are open-ended a little bit. Yeah, they want you to teach a journalism this, and you know what, if I was a full-time professor, I'll teach fucking journalism. Yeah, it's a good salary, you know, especially where you're getting your foot in the door to a brand new department. So, yeah I'll do that a little bit, meanwhile I'll be like, "Hey, we need a poetry course. We need a-you know." (pause)

But, yeah, the idea is that of course I need a job. Until I got to some point where if, in my mind, if it goes the way I'd like it to go where I buy a condo, then I buy something else, then we're getting to the point where I'm because I don't need a lot. I just need to know that there's something happening, either I have equity or I have whatever, a little bit of rental income or whatever. Yeah, I know. There's no question -

THERAPIST: There has to be income. [00:23:01]

CLIENT: There has to be, yeah. There has to be revenue. No, no, there has to be revenue. Absolutely. Because otherwise what I'm doing is being okay for now, but then having to liquidate things to pay off this debt and I don't want to have to do that. Or ideally, what I want to have to do is have enough property that, when the time comes, maybe I will sell this house but then I still have I have three condos or whatever. Or I sell the condos and now I have my house, everything's all set, paid off, done. So that's the plan and I think that's very doable. It's not rocket science. It just takes time and research and patience. But, I don't know. (pause)

THERAPIST: Sounds like it feels like it makes sense to it's a risk, but it feels like a risk that feels worth it. [00:24:04]

CLIENT: Yeah, because you know what's great? It's my risk. I'm not putting any-in a way, it's kind of like what I wanted all along. In a way, it's like I'm getting my inheritance before I'm fucking 65. Hopefully, my mom's going to live a long time, so But the great thing is, it's no skin off her back. She gets to live comfortably. She's not paying anything back. This is I'm indirectly doing this -

THERAPIST: It's your responsibility.

CLIENT: It's my responsibility.

THERAPIST: Your success, your failure (crosstalk)

CLIENT: That's it. It has nothing to do with her and she gets to live comfortably and not feel like she did something for me. It's her money and she can live comfortably and travel to Assyria or whatever. She can't keep making excuses anymore. This bill and that whiny kind of crap. Well, she can but I'm not going to care. So, it kind of works out for everybody. (pause)[00:25:09]

THERAPIST: It takes her off your back?

CLIENT: Yeah! Yeah. I mean, I don't have brothers or sisters. I have this one thing. And, luckily, she's a good enough mother. I mean, she obviously loves me. She cares. She sees that that's what I'm trying She gets it. This is my future. She wins, I win and in the future, it's up to me. She doesn't have to worry about that. (long pause) [00:25:56]

There's just no Times have changed. You always have to be savvy, but I think these are brutal times and you just have to be extra savvy. And if you have some opportunity to make bigger changes in your life then you have to do it. [00:27:09]

I really don't otherwise we're just living these automated lives where it's like, work, get your paycheck, pay your fucking bills. You've got to put $50 in your savings. That is great. That is wonderful, but it's not That does not make for true, big shifts in your life. That just means you have to keep doing that. That $50 has to keep going into your savings until you're 60, then you That's not my life. It's never been. I've got to stop thinking somehow that that will be. It's just not. And, I'm fortunate that, if this wasn't here, then, yeah, I'd have to keep doing what I'm doing and I'd have to take whatever job and just suck it up and that would be that. Luckily I don't have to. You know. (pause)[00:28:05]

Or I would have already moved already. I think if I didn't have this, I think I'd already be in Assyria. I think I'd be gone. I have friends there. I be like, "You know what? I'm just coming". If I'm going to live that way here? I know for a fact they live better there. In other words, maybe not the native Assyrians, but Assyrians that have gone from here. They might not make a lot but they just It's Europe. Their lifestyles are just better.

THERAPIST: What do mean when you say that?

CLIENT: Well, you know. I mean in England it was like that too. There are just people that clearly they don't a lot of money but their lives are somehow just happier. They have issues. Don't get me wrong. But it's not this. [00:28:58]

They're at coffee shops, they're at the pub, they still travel somehow. I don't know how the fuck that happens. There's something that gives them some sense of okayness overall. And I think the only thing that could be is not in Assyria because Assyria is still it's not a true social welfare state yet. But that's what it is in other places. They don't have a lot of money but they're not in debt to the fucking dentist for thousands and thousands of dollars. They're not up to here in student debt. They're not, you know. That's an incredible relief. I don't even know what that's like actually. I can't even imagine what it's I think I only know Dave and Scott. I think I only know two people that have no debt at all. [00:29:53]

I'm not [trying that idea] (ph). They have a lot of other issues over there. I'm saying again, socially, there's something, I don't know. They get together. Their get-togethers feel different, their conversations feel different. Something is just different. They have a whole other, you know. Unemployment is high, whatever. They have other issues. Many of them probably want to come here. I don't know. But, from my perspective, it's just what your tradeoff is. My tradeoff is I'm okay if worse came to worse, making very little money and somehow feeling more of a sense of community with other artists and something. I don't know. Feeling more connected to the wider world and like I'm not some kind of leper. (pause) [00:31:00]

That's what we were talking about. That's how you're made to feel here. It's over here. You're either a rich, famous artist or you're just some kind of lazy bum. Forget about an artist regular working people, that's how they're portrayed. You know, they're tough. Look at me. I worked hard. Look what I did. Do it yourself. That's a brutal side to live in. So art? What the fuck room does art have in that? None. You're not contributing to the bottom line. There's no bottom line with art. You know what I mean? What's your schedule? You know what I mean? That's no kind of society for people like me who aren't hobbyists. And for the time being at least, if some more, in other parts of the world You might still feel like, "Oh, poet!" But people get what poetry is and that it might still be important. They might have read poetry. [00:32:07]

So you're not immediately made to feel small. Here it's The smartest person makes you feel even if they don't mean to-they just, because they're so shocked, you know. Poet? Wow! (pause)

THERAPIST: Can you imagine this kind of community you're picturing, European, Assyrian, it might get you to start writing? Somehow?

CLIENT: Are you asking?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: No doubt. Why did I finish my book in England? Whenever have I said I'm just realizing this now Other than starting the book here, because I was pretty diligent. But other than that, when have I ever said that I was staying up all night in a little closet. I was using this room that was tiny, tiny, no windows, no nothing, and finishing this book in the middle of London. That's Come on. [00:33:10]

Something was going on. And I think that what that was was I just felt this weird energy. I felt like "Whoa, I'm in the world, out in the world." Things are happening. I'd look at the map and be like, "Holy fuck! I'm like a 20 minute plane ride from Europe." Like I'd look at all the geographically and be like "What the fuck? Wait, what? Twenty-five minute plane ride to Europe? Where the fuck am I?" Like, I'm farther That is an energizing Like holy shit! I will be-Any which way I go, I will be in a completely different country. That's unbelievable. There's something about that that makes you feel like, whoa. Like I'm part of a bigger community. (pause) [00:34:01]

At least for me. Obviously the Scottish people are like, "What the fuck are you doing here? Why did you move here? You know what I mean? Like, again, I get it, that it's all relative.

THERAPIST: Well, rather than an idealization of England, it may be something about being away from your roots, away from your mother, being out in communities where it feels like doors are opening, you can find yourself more anonymously in a strange city, in a strange place all those kind of (inaudible at 00:34:32)

CLIENT: There's that too, yeah. Well, not to mention that, the other thing is that people might want to move here as much as they want I know from a lot of Assyrians, once they get here, they're like, "Oh!" (laughing) They still have this idea that they're going to get here and it's just, "Hey! Here's a pot of gold, here's your passport and here's your big You know the movies are pretty amazing. People still have this idea that it's those You know those movies where You know like "Meet the Fockers". There's a beautiful wherever these suburbs are in these movies. You know what I'm talking about? I mean I even I love it! I'm like, "Wow!" What a cute little town that is. You know what I mean? And if we feel that way, it still works magic for us and we're here, we're Americans, we're born here, we understand that. But for other people, that's pretty But then they get here and they're like, "Oh, shit." Jobs aren't that easy to get or maybe they are easy to get but I'm not making 100 grand a year. [00:35:37]

So, that is a little bit different. For me, over there, yes it's like, "Shit, yes it's hard to find a job." But that didn't change my desire to stay there. You know what I mean? Whereas I think I've met a lot of people that have come My ex, Julia, was that way. She loved it here. I mean, obviously, it's America. They love it. But they also see that it's pretty kind of dog-eat-dog and it's very different than what they imagined. [00:36:05]

THERAPIST: Why did you leave England if that wasn't what deterred you?

CLIENT: Well, because I mean, you get to a point where -

THERAPIST: You didn't have a job.

CLIENT: Yeah. But what I'm saying is that I couldn't deal with that because that's just not Yeah, that sucks but that didn't change my attitude about if I did have a job, even if it didn't pay me a shitload of money, I'd make a happier life here than a job that pays the exact same amount of money here. That's the difference. You know what I mean? Whereas I think for a Scottish person, if they could make 100 grand in London or fucking Birmingham or if they were making 100 grand in (inaudible at 00:36:40) . I think they'd be like, "I'll stay here." It's just about this. You know what I mean? It's about people coming And that's fine. This is a country you can, if you get lucky and things kind of go your way and you work hard and all these ingredients come together, you can make a lot of money. But you have to give up those social You have to just say bye-bye to that. You've got to give up any sense of, you know (pause) [00:37:16]

If I was younger maybe I would have stayed there. You know, I'd work under the table, so maybe, I don't know. It's not my style but maybe I would have found a way but that's not that easy. You're doing illegal shit and if you get caught, you're gone for like ten years. They won't let you back.

THERAPIST: Listen, I'm pointing this out, it's hard too to make enough there to make ends meet.

CLIENT: Oh, yeah, yeah. Europe is no joke. Europe is You need to find a way to be okay otherwise Europe is not easy. Like, I can't live in London. I love London but I cannot I don't even know how professors live in London. I've never seen You know what I mean? You have to be savvy about where in Europe or how you decide to do these things if you're adamant about staying. No, it's very hard. [00:38:13]

It's just about, again, what you're willing to give up and trade off and -

THERAPIST: That's what it more sounds like. I don't know that there is a place that's much, much better -

CLIENT: It's just who you are, what you want, yeah.

THERAPIST: . . . but the things that you are willing to compromise on and the things that you're not willing to compromise on, that it's not feeling like it 's the right fit here.

CLIENT: That's right. Yeah.

And I already know. I already did it. I know that if I'm there, I'm going to be homesick. I really miss it here. But, see, that's the difference. The next time around, once there's breathing room By the way, I would have stayed there. Let's say I had a little more money, not a lot. That would be different. If I could come visit, then I could go back. I would still be there. I would absolutely still be in Europe. If I could come back here for a month, three weeks, whatever, really just take it all in It's really not a big Five, six, seven hour whatever. It's not a big deal. It's basically going to San Francisco people do it all the time. [00:39:23]

THERAPIST: If I could take a month off from my job -

CLIENT: Well, if I could set it up, that's the thing. Once you're in the UK. That's what Charles does; he's able to He's not rich. He's made a life for himself where he makes these little films. They're not going to be shown at the theater or whatever. But it gets him invited to the film festivals. There's a trip right there. He gets some little thing to go to Istanbul. There's a trip right there. You just make a life for yourself to do these things and you make do and then you're at least happy that, okay, some other things suck He' s not married. But he's an artist doing his art, simple as that. And it can mean being able to enjoy travelling, being able to come here for ten days and just enjoy it, see everybody, bah, bah, bah. And then he's going to Toronto, then he's going to Istanbul. How? He's not rich. I know their family very well. It's just he's able to cobble up-[00:40:30]

THERAPIST: He's getting money from somewhere to pay for the tickets.

CLIENT: What I'm saying is it's both harder and not harder than we think it is. He's doing it by just doing it. You know what I mean? A little grant here. Someone invites him, they pay for the ticket. You know what I mean? So, yes, he's not like -

THERAPIST: It's not impossible to piece something together.

CLIENT: And he's not a particularly good filmmaker. You know what I mean? (laughing) I love the guy. They're not bad films. I'm just saying that they're not like He's doing it. [00:40:59] (pause)

THERAPIST: It sounds inspiring.

CLIENT: Yeah! Exactly! Inspiring and also energizing. I mean, I'm not the greatest poet (laughing) but I'm fucking good, so, there's got to be You know what I mean? This is ridiculous, come on. [00:41:19]

So, once you can let go of that other stuff, which I'm finally getting there, then that's when you can really That's what he's been able to do. He's not weighed down by weird feelings with his mom and this. Over time, he's worked that out and let things go and, you know, just embraced who he is. And that's that.

THERAPIST: Committed to himself.

CLIENT: What's that?

THERAPIST: Committed to himself.

CLIENT: And committed to himself, exactly. (pause)

THERAPIST: He believed in himself enough to think he could make this work and I think that's part of what your mom's voice has held back your (inaudible at 00:42:15).

CLIENT: That's right. (pause)

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:42:40)

CLIENT: Noon. Nice. Thanks, (inaudible). Have a good one.

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