TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

CLIENT: I did give in and get a hotel room tonight.

THERAPIST: You did?

CLIENT: Yeah. I was at my friend Ashley's and while it was very nice I was like, "Wow, there are people here. And they're very nice and I like them but I would like no people." And my landlord actually finished the work.

THERAPIST: Oh, good.

CLIENT: Although I had to ask him twice.

THERAPIST: So all the work is done.

CLIENT: All the work is done and then Ashley's going to feed my pets tonight so I don't have to do that. I had locked them in the bedrooms for the day. (inaudible at 01:11) but I still, like (inaudible at 01:19) walking over I was, like, still not really feeling my feelings but I don't know. I guess I don't feel as immediately threatened. The other thing which had been frustrating was work (ph) taking forever to pay me back that back pay. So I called with sort of, like, it's an undue burden. I have to pay my rent. (inaudible at 02:03) and they called today saying yes, I'm going to get a check tomorrow. So sort of like all of that. But I don't know. For me so probably the biggest problem is I don't want to eat anything. Like, I'm just not feeling hungry at all. So I made myself eat because I know I'm supposed to do that but (inaudible at 02:33).

THERAPIST: I haven't heard you say that one before.

CLIENT: Yeah, it's really when I first (inaudible at 02:42) my appetite was depressed for a while, which annoyed me too, but then it came back. A lot of times when I get stressed, like, I get really stressed, my stomach gets stressed and usually (inaudible at 03:00) nauseous but very rarely I just don't want to move (ph). I think, like, the last time I can remember just, like, not wanting to eat at all was I think in college. Like, during the finals period I accidentally lost a ton of weight because I just didn't want to eat anything. And then I finally was like, "Oh, I'm not eating" and ate a pineapple. (laughter) I ate an entire pineapple and then I went to the (inaudible at 03:44) went to the, you know, and got actual dining hall food and it's fine. But yeah, it's really...

THERAPIST: When did you lose your appetite?

CLIENT: I actually can't remember why I was so stressed that one semester.

THERAPIST: Sorry, I meant...

CLIENT: Today, just recently?

THERAPIST: Today, not yesterday or the day before.

CLIENT: Actually sort of no, I wasn't really interested in food yesterday either. Actually, that would probably be Monday after the landlord came by. Like, we were in the middle of having a pizza. And I said oh, I didn't want to eat but I was like, "Well, there's a pizza." And so I finished my portion but [not really since then] (ph). [00:04:57]

THERAPIST: Got you.

CLIENT: Like, I just don't feel hungry.

THERAPIST: I guess I'm mostly asking because as you hadn't mentioned it before today, I didn't know if it'd just started today and that would have been sort of curious, given that actually things are a little better. But it started at a more expectable time.

CLIENT: Yeah. I didn't even really notice that I didn't want to eat until last night. My friend Alton came by just to sort of, you know, be there when my landlord was there. And he was like, "I'm so hungry and I want dinner." And he's talking about dinner and I'm like, "Sure. I'm completely uninterested in dinner." And, like, I had a bowl of soup because it was put in my face. I also, like, bought him he'd been talking for weeks about wanting lobster ravioli in this place near where I lived because he would never have it and I had bought it earlier that day. He was super excited to have that as well. And, like, I was just (inaudible at 06:24), like, "I'm love lobster, I love ravioli. I don't want to eat it." [00:06:28]

THERAPIST: So you made it for him?

CLIENT: No, I bought it for him. He (inaudible at 06:33) himself. He was really excited about it.

THERAPIST: Did that reassure you at all?

CLIENT: That he liked what I had gotten him or...

THERAPIST: Yeah, like that maybe he wasn't so angry or ill-disposed.

CLIENT: No, I wasn't worried that he was angry when he was talking about being hungry.

THERAPIST: I [just sort of] (ph) meant in general, like...

CLIENT: No. Alton is, like, very solid.

THERAPIST: Wait, I'm getting confused.

CLIENT: There's a lot of people.

THERAPIST: Are you talking about the landlord eating the lobster ravioli?

CLIENT: No no no, sorry. My friend Alton who came over.

THERAPIST: What's your friend's name?

CLIENT: Alton.

THERAPIST: Alton. Oh. OK, this is where [I got it] (ph) confused, sorry. I had misheard and heard you say Amy (sp?).

CLIENT: No.

THERAPIST: Sure, no, I just didn't recognize it (ph). And so I think when you're using a masculine pronoun why I assume you were referring to feeding your landlord, which seemed a little strange given the circumstances (inaudible at 08:02) expected. And so (inaudible at 08:05), oh, sounds like a positive interaction, like, was that helpful. But he had nothing to do with it, OK.

CLIENT: No, my landlord...

THERAPIST: Alton is your friend.

CLIENT: Yes, so he came over...

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 08:23) I heard you saying it was a male friend coming over so (inaudible at 08:28). OK.

CLIENT: No, it's hard to hear Alton as a name, much less a gendered name. And my landlord was incredibly childish, again. Like (inaudible at 08:51) the doorbell to let him in. He didn't want to look at me, he didn't want to really say anything, you know, kind of stopped up and was like, "I'm here to inspect the room." And so the light was on. I know it turned it on. Ashby had cleared everything off. She had put (ph) everything off the floor and I had taken some things off the walls so they wouldn't get knocked down (inaudible at 09:17). And then he acted very shocked and he was like, "Oh, it's ready" and was sort of [going to inspect] (ph). I'm not sure what he expected. I have (ph) no idea. And then just walked away to go downstairs. Like, he didn't speak to me.

And so while he was walking downstairs (inaudible at 09:42) I asked, you know, "Do you know when it will be done?" And wouldn't look back again and was like, "I cannot tell you at this time." And so I asked again, like, "Can you let me know at the end of the day? Can you let me know when the work is finished?" And so then he said, "Oh yeah, it's not going to take more than a day." So he did know he just didn't want to tell me because he is that way. Yeah, he just remains so (pause), like, (pause) he just remains so erratic. Like, I feel like there is nothing like, if I wanted to do something to make him less upset I don't know what that would be, other than having retroactively given him all the rent and not requesting the repairs, even though he had said to the first floor people he loved how the repairs in front of the house looked. And he hasn't demanded the rent, again. [00:11:40]

I was also feeling one of the reasons why I left (ph) my apartment is I was worried that he would, I don't know, hang around or something and make an immediate demand for rent or he would leave, like a weird note that would make me really upset and frustrated. But he has not. (inaudible at 12:18) (pause) I spent the day at a sewing studio, sewing, which was nicely mindless.

THERAPIST: Sorry. I have one more, like, practical (ph) a question. Would it (inaudible at 12:50) change the lock?

CLIENT: I thought about that. I believe legally we're not allowed to.

THERAPIST: Oh really?

CLIENT: (inaudible at 13:01) the locks or if we change the locks we have to give him a key. I don't remember.

THERAPIST: Yeah, I guess I was thinking, like, change them and give him a key but you could probably delay that until you move and then... But yeah, I'm sure you've thought of this.

CLIENT: Yeah. It's also just I don't I very much resent putting more money.

THERAPIST: Absolutely, sure. Yeah, I totally understand that.

CLIENT: (inaudible at 13:36) eventually maybe decide that I would get a hotel room is that Ashby and I are withholding an additional portion of the rent. So I'm like, well, it's something like 750 dollars or something that's more than our total rent. (pause) Yeah, I don't know, like, (pause) I don't really feel relieved yet. I still don't totally feel like he's done. I guess mostly because (pause) he's still our landlord for [an indeterminate] (ph) time and there's nothing we can do about that. He just is our landlord. [00:15:03]

THERAPIST: How much does this feel to you like (pause) you guys did this thing to him, calling whoever it is, who then sort of came (inaudible at 15:41) and had to force his hand and then he's sort of retaliating in the ways he's treating you guys?

CLIENT: I feel like it's very retaliatory, although retaliatory is almost, like, too mature. (pause) I don't think he's thinking past, like, "Well, I just want to" like, he's mad about it and, like, this is as close as he can get to, you know, throwing a temper tantrum, taking his toys and going home?

THERAPIST: Like, this is how he's being mad at you guys.

CLIENT: Yes. I mean, it's definitely an expression of his anger.

THERAPIST: Now I have a blame-the-victim question for you. It isn't really but, like, it's very clear that what you're describing is happening in the world I'm not at all doubting you and questioning that. But I am wondering if (pause) you're, like I know it's not really a question this is an answer but, again, I'm wondering if you're, like, if any of your fears of him or worries about what he could do or a sense of vulnerability sort of relate to kind of the fantasy that when you put back on someone or you, like, (inaudible at 18:15) forces them to do something, you are going to be in big trouble. Like, I'm wondering if that's at all sort of super posed on any of this or not.

CLIENT: I don't really know. (pause) I knew when Ashby and I, you know, decided to call the city inspector we were totally aware that he would be upset in some way. And so as much as we were like, OK, he's going to be resentful about that. He's probably going to try to put it off. So the reason why I had the inspector call him and say he had to was because he knew that I said, "You have..."

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 19:35)

CLIENT: Yeah, that he had to do that. So...

THERAPIST: And so you had to call the city inspector...

CLIENT: Right, in the first place, yeah. So (pause), like, my expectation was, I don't know, that he would have a brief, like, send an angry text message or (pause), like, he would have, like, a moment of expressing his annoyance and stuff and that would be kind of it. (pause) And I think part of why I've been feeling so frightened is that he just keeps on doing more than I think he will and weirder than I think he will.

So, like, at work when I think, like, (inaudible at 21:11) on something I feel like the answer, like, a pushback would be now (ph) and you can't do that and also this other thing. But it'll be, like, (sighs), Will (sp?) was consistently a jerk to me around technology but he wasn't going to, like, cut into my office supplies or, you know.

THERAPIST: Yeah, you don't generally because I can tell you kind of worry about retaliation more, like, you know, being ignored or not included or something like that.

CLIENT: Yeah and it mostly feels like...

THERAPIST: You're in some degree worried about, like, being fired for speaking up or something like that but not a lot (ph).

CLIENT: Yeah and that also feels like it would be around just something specific I said or did, like, you were complaining about this so our response is (inaudible at 22:30). But with my landlord I feel it's like (pause) (inaudible at 22:38) the same, like, "We're going to move you to a smaller office and also give you an uncomfortable chair." (inaudible at 22:50) more like, I guess, "We're moving you to a smaller office and for no reason at all you can no longer have green pens (ph). And then, you know, two weeks later, "Oh, p.s., you can only have unrecycled copy paper." Do you know what I mean? I feel like...

THERAPIST: And you have a scary, erratic boss who could explode at you, you know, at any time.

CLIENT: Yeah. And I haven't, like (sighs) I mean, when I was having like, the closest this yields to is I guess in many ways is when I was living with Timothy and he lost it and was scary and erratic and made no sense. And, you know, I was able to get a restraining order and all these other things. But with my landlord I just feel like I have a legal tie to you in ways that are not cool (ph) and (pause), like, while he's doing all these things I find upsetting and scary, I don't like them, a lot of them are things that he is, in theory, allowed to do. So I don't know that there's any basis for, like, getting a landlord restraining order or (inaudible at 24:53).

THERAPIST: Sure. My impression is that in a way, like, it's not actually the things he's already done in and of themselves that have been so scary but how they're suggestive of what he might do more so. Like, it's weird that he won't look at you, annoying that he's, you know, has kind of been around the house. But (inaudible at 25:23) what you're scared of is more like maybe I'm wrong and if so, let me know if he would yell at you or get in your face or hang around your apartment when you weren't (ph) there. And, like, his sort of erratic and intrusive behavior worry you more because they suggest he could do those other things. Is that right?

CLIENT: Yeah. I mean, the main thing with his past behavior is that there's so many examples of him just doing really baffling things that it makes me like, it's really hard to not just have crazy, like, spiraling worries because I, you know, I feel like, well he's already done a lot of really inappropriate and intrusive weird things. So I would believe he would do about anything, you know. Like, if someone said would he sleep in my bed? I don't know, maybe. I could definitely see him sleeping on the sofa. You know, could I see him having a fight with his mom and sister and then coming into our apartment? Yes, like, in a heartbeat. [00:27:06]

And (pause), like, you know, with, like, the fear of getting fired at work I can sort of be like (inaudible at 27:19) and if they try to X, Y and Z. With him I just feel like I don't know, he could.

THERAPIST: Yeah, I'm not getting the impression (pause) as you're talking that what I was asking about is the, like, factor [in here] (ph) or is a factor at all. I mean, it doesn't seem to me (inaudible at 27:50) about it and (inaudible at 27:52) so I asked, but it doesn't tell me what's going on.

CLIENT: No, it was an interesting question. (pause) Also, I'm thinking today I was thinking more about, I mean, how another thing I have to talk to my parents about, I'm moving suddenly. And, like, because it's a sudden move and (inaudible at 28:41) and et cetera. So we moved into our current apartment they ran a credit check and because I can't remember what we did exactly but it was, like, neither Ashby and I's credit were quite good enough so, like, her mom basically was kind of like I don't know. She didn't front anything financial but, like, in theory she was like, "And yes, they will not set the house on fire." And so I'm thinking, "Oh, I'm going to have to do that again." Like, will I have to ask my parents for financial help moving? Like, I don't know. Like, last time we asked Ashby's mom mostly because her mom worked at the notary public, so it was really easy to kind of like [ding ding ding] (ph). But her mom doesn't work there anymore so thinking about that (inaudible at 30:06) in large part because my parents, like, they don't have any idea of how apartment living in the city works because they haven't done that in forever.

And so if I saw them my brother (ph) have had these arguments where my parents are like, "Well, that just can't be," whatever. Like, that's nice. It is. Like, apartments in Philly are (inaudible at 30:39) expensive so apartments in Manchester, no, I can't live a 15 minute walk from work. Like, even if there were vacancies. I couldn't afford it. So (pause) I feel like it's going to sort of like, they're going to want to know, like, "Well, did you try this? Did you try that? Did you try" I think everyone has said to me at some point, like, "Have you tried just having, like, an honest talk with your landlord?" Like, I did think of that already and I tried that already for months. And (inaudible at 31:33) like, "Well no, but really, we're just so serious," like, you know. (inaudible at 31:37) like yeah, like, that is a good suggestion that I tried and I don't think anything about what's currently going on indicates that, like, a chat over a beer would help.

THERAPIST: Imagine I was thinking through this situation as well as you might be thinking through this situation if you were in this situation.

CLIENT: Yeah. You know, like (pause) the other thing which I was talking to Ashley and Alton's my friend who I stayed with last night.

THERAPIST: Did you sleep (inaudible at 32:22) by the way or...

CLIENT: Sort of. I fell asleep sometime after 2:00.

THERAPIST: Oh wow. (inaudible at 32:33)

CLIENT: And then I woke up I guess around 8:00 and then again around 9:00 or 9:30.

THERAPIST: And you got, like, six.

CLIENT: And I need eight to nine.

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 32:50)

CLIENT: (inaudible at 33:02) this morning because I was like, I already feel wound up, like, let's not increase that.

THERAPIST: What do you anticipate about tonight? I mean, like, do you think last night it was in part having people around in the apartment to sleep or just because you're not really less wound up about things right now with your apartment?

CLIENT: I think it was a bunch (ph). Like, it was partially I forgot that (pause) Maddy (sp?), who is my friend's teenage daughter, like, her bedtime is, like, 11:00.

THERAPIST: Wait. I know there's a six...

CLIENT: So the six year old and there's a teenager.

THERAPIST: Oh, OK.

CLIENT: So the six year old's bedtime is sort of like, I don't know, 8:00 something. And then the teenager was up later and so I was like, "Oh, there are just more people awake than I was anticipating." And for, like, whatever ridiculous god damn reason I took a cab after therapy to my apartment. And the cab driver was silent half the way and then started having a long conversation about mental health problems. So his thing is, which I sort of agree with, he's like, "I think that, you know, if you're depressed you don't go out and shoot people." He was basically like he had this whole thing where he's like, you know, you don't shoot people if you're depressed or if you're and he (inaudible at 35:04) about other (ph) things. He's like, "If you go out and shoot people, like, there's something else wrong with you." I'm like, OK, sure, that's (inaudible at 35:12). Then he had a long tangent about how the reason why the shooter killed his mother was because his mother would have told him that he's bringing shame upon the entire family or that his mother would say, "If you shoot these kids you'll bring shame upon the family." And I'm like, that's probably not exactly what but OK.

And then Ashley and I and Maddy (ph) sat there (ph) talking about family members, like close family members we've had that have contributed to all our problems. It wasn't the best thing that we ever discussed.

THERAPIST: No, I imagine that (inaudible at 36:04) duckies and bunnies or something.

CLIENT: Yeah, it sort of it actually ended in a good part, where (pause) so there's a (inaudible at 36:22) party in January and then there's the flea market in February. And I had already decided that I didn't want to go in February. And I was feeling very ambivalent about this January party before and now I'm like, I just feel so, like, set off I just don't want to like, that party always makes me feel stressed and anxious. I don't want to do that. And so Ashley and I ended up having this sort of conversation about what it was that made us feel angry or upset or threatened or weird at that party. And he was very reassuring in, like, "I don't think you should go." And he's thinking I'm not going for some related reasons. [00:37:31]

So that was actually, like, that was really great because I'd been so ambivalent about it and a lot of my friends and I understand what they're saying, is they're like, "I really would like you to go because I would like you to be there. But on the other hand, I can understand why you don't want to." And it was good to have someone say, you know, don't. Like, that is a bad idea. Also I didn't realize that among, like, (inaudible at 38:18) going to be there again. She wasn't last year. Getting that information really was helpful for not going. But yeah, it was not the best (inaudible at 38:44) ever.

(silence)

CLIENT: But then Matthew (ph) was nice. Maddy (sp?) talked about going swimming in the morning and the little girl (inaudible at 39:11) was in a super good mood and then (inaudible at 39:17) from a child science fiction (inaudible at 39:21) for a while, which I find very charming. And then told me about how she had made Santa Claus. (laughter) She did (ph) this really long narrative about it.

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 39:36)

CLIENT: Yeah and one of her parents said, "Ask her about Santa." And she just, "And I think this is how you spell his name and this is how I met him. And he's the size of a guinea pig" and like on and on. [I'm like] (ph), this is fantastic. So that was, like, a really nice beginning to the day and then (inaudible at 40:05) just go and, like, sew and not deal with it. And also, like, when I got there I was working on it. I said to one of the women who work there, like, "Oh yeah, my landlord's working my" their water main broke outside their building. I was like, "Yeah, my landlord's doing crap in my apartment so I thought I'd get out." And everything there was like, "Yes, landlord and apartment." I didn't expect that. It was a very odd nice little like, "Yes, this is a good idea. Escape, escape (ph)."

THERAPIST: Yeah, they're like it's very helpful to be out of your apartment and, like, I guess like try to take care of yourself and not kind of pushing it (ph).

CLIENT: Yeah. I've been thinking about do I want to spend the day out of my apartment again tomorrow. Like, I could go to the sewing studio. I could go to the library. I also realize that the coffee shop closest to my house, which I have kind of like a lot, is too to my house.

(silence)

CLIENT: I mostly surprised that I haven't a lot of times when I get really stressed or have a lot of (sighs), like, any overwhelming emotions, like, I just want like a big hunk of meat. Like, I get really hungry. Like, [so I think I mentioned some things] (ph) I inevitably eat a ludicrous amount of meat because I don't know. I'm like, "Oh, that's so exhausting. I want steak." And it's like a constant internal [jolt to me] (ph) where I'm like, "Oh, yeah, you processed a lot of feelings. Go eat something (inaudible at 42:57)." And so I've been kind of expecting to have that feeling and, like, I guess maybe I will eventually (inaudible at 43:13). Yeah, not (inaudible at 43:16) is weird.

THERAPIST: I think you're still pretty terrified and maybe a bit you think you're a little bit out of your body?

CLIENT: Yes, very much so. [On the up side] (ph), I think that started hurting so at least I (inaudible at 43:38) that.

THERAPIST: Do you, like, (inaudible at 43:43) symptoms, sort of eat numb or, like...

CLIENT: No, I just won't (ph) like, I slept curled up on a fold up futon, which is terrible. And normally I wake up feeling really achy from that. And I just was like kind of I just don't feel like (inaudible at 44:14). And, you know, I've sowed for, like, four hours straight, which normally I would be feeling like, "Whoa, it's tiring to do all of that."

THERAPIST: Would it (pause) help if you, you know, take a longer shower or bath at the hotel to...

CLIENT: My plan is to go and get, like, a bath something.

THERAPIST: Oh, a what (ph)?

CLIENT: Lush, yeah. Like, get a cupcake, get some kind of scented bath thing and some snack food and see if something hits. But I thought that the bath would be at least the (inaudible at 45:19), like, the thing most likely to make me feel like I am back in my body.

THERAPIST: We should stop for now. But I do hope (inaudible at 45:34)

CLIENT: (inaudible at 45:35)

THERAPIST: And I will see you...

CLIENT: (inaudible at 45:43)

THERAPIST: Yeah, (inaudible at 45:44)

CLIENT: [Have a good day] (ph).

THERAPIST: Take care.

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