TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:
CLIENT: I’m fighting a little hypochondria situation.
THERAPIST: About?
CLIENT: I don’t know. I’ve been a little constipated lately, which never happens to me.
THERAPIST: And that makes you worried that something serious is going on?
CLIENT: I’m just uncomfortable and I generally get lower back discomfort. I’m starting to wonder if once in a while my hypochondria is just whatever I hear or if a friend tells me or whatever. For whatever reason, if it somehow resonates or triggers something, then I just take it on. Like last week, one of my friends has been having really, really bad lower back pain and he has a stone or something. [00:01:04]
THERAPIST: A kidney stone?
CLIENT: Yeah. He was freaked out because that could be a sign of bad things if your lower back hurts that bad. So when I started feeling a little constipated, I had discomfort in my lower back so, of course, I’m like “why is this happening?” I know it also happens when I’m making changes or doing stuff.
THERAPIST: Like relationships or sex, that can be another kind of preoccupation that is oddly soothing. You just are focused on that. [00:02:00]
CLIENT: Yeah, like a distraction.
THERAPIST: For some of the bigger things that are happening right now – which are huge.
CLIENT: I think it’s also a way of saying “don’t get too excited because something bad is going to happen eventually.” It’s shitty.
THERAPIST: Like getting a kidney stone. It hurts. You may have to go to the hospital, but that doesn’t need to stop you from going to Assyria.
CLIENT: Right, but the fact that you even have to go there in your mind – kidney stone? What the fuck? Yes, of course, if it were to happen, then you deal with it, but it’s just so silly that my mind goes to . . .
THERAPIST: The worst case.
CLIENT: Yeah. Like welcome to your 40’s. I think people get constipated. It just happens.
THERAPIST: People get back pain. [00:03:00]
CLIENT: Yeah – especially people that always have a super-tight back. I always have to be careful about my posture and stuff. I’ve probably jacked-up my back. It’s been uncomfortable for years. On the up side, I did some writing yesterday and it was good. I think I’m finally going to do a blog or something. There is a really nice, new platform that’s very clean and looks very cool. It’s mostly just for texts. I like what I wrote. It wasn’t much – just two or three paragraphs – but they’re keepers, I think. [00:04:02]
THERAPIST: Fiction? Non-fiction?
CLIENT: No, it’s kind of like a memoir/something. I’m finally trying to somehow write about this whole – whatever the hell this is and focus on the combination of what is it to feel like you’ve been in a coma for so long?
THERAPIST: It seems to me that you wrote yesterday, of all days. I wonder why yesterday you wanted to.
CLIENT: I had started. I tried a few days ago, but I just didn’t like what I wrote that much so I just went over it and rewrote it. [00:05:04] I don’t know. There is definitely stuff that wants to come out.
THERAPIST: But there is a difference between sitting in wait and then coming out.
CLIENT: Yeah, it wasn’t like it was that much, but yeah.
THERAPIST: Actually, two paragraphs is very different than nothing.
CLIENT: Of course – especially if they’re keepers. They’re not just stuff I wrote and I was like eh.
THERAPIST: But even if they weren’t, Brian, you’re minimizing the task of actually just sitting down and getting yourself to write. It’s hard.
CLIENT: That’s true. That’s right.
THERAPIST: I think it does count. Even if it’s a terrible one paragraph, you wrote that day. That’s being the artist.
CLIENT: Yeah, there are going to be plenty of days where you don’t keep what you wrote.
THERAPIST: Of course. [00:06:00]
CLIENT: I don’t know why. Part of it could be this new café that I go to in Shrewsbury. It goes a long way if you feel really comfortable. Now I’m leaving, and I just kind of discovered this place, but it’s really spacious and the music is barely audible. The coffee is just right – it’s good, but it’s not some nasty, burnt shit. It’s perfect. It’s in Shrewsbury, so it’s not like there are weird homeless people walking through every ten minutes or something. Not to put down homeless people, but if you’re at 1369 there’s a dude talking to himself and some lady that smells funny. So I don’t know. I think it’s just very conducive. For someone like me who needs that white noise, it’s perfect. [00:06:59]
THERAPIST: White noise not being noise.
CLIENT: Exactly. It’s just very faint and pleasant. I can look up and kind of take a little . . .
THERAPIST: Not feeling over-stimulated.
CLIENT: Yeah, not feel over-stimulated. It’s really nice, really nice.
THERAPIST: I also wonder if it’s away enough, too. Shrewsbury is not a coffee shop in Cheshire.
CLIENT: Maybe. I don’t see anyone there; no one looks familiar.
THERAPIST: Not a lot of signs around you that could trigger something.
CLIENT: That’s true. And also a lot of the other people, there is a lot of conformity a little bit. A lot of the other people are on their laptops and everyone is kind of like doing their own thing. It’s just a nice vibe, but somehow not pretentious or annoying, like Levi’s or whatever. That could have something to do with it. I don’t know. (pause) [00:08:04]
THERAPIST: You were also remembering more yesterday.
CLIENT: Yeah, that’s true.
THERAPIST: I mean in a pretty profound way. Do you remember?
CLIENT: Yeah, of course. Of course. (pause) Sure, all those things have to do with that feeling of being in a fog or feeling like you’re not – you know. One thing I wrote yesterday is that the whole thing is that you feel . . . It’s all poeticized and all that, but I broke it down into three things, I think, which was that first you’re kind of like a really shy, slightly melancholy kid. And then you go right into this PTSD young adulthood where everyone you know is dying or dead or whatever. (chuckles) Then I wrote, “But in the third part, that’s the part that actually maybe caused the most of this coma-type thing. Then you, yourself, cause harm, in a way, to yourself and to others because you just don’t know what the fuck you’re doing. You’re just sleepwalking.” [00:10:02] If people die, they die. When you’re a kid, you’re a kid; you’re a child. But then, without knowing, because you don’t understand yourself. You can’t figure out your context. You don’t know what the fuck is going on. There is groping and trying. You know what I mean? I was writing about that. Then I was saying that the difference is that, generally, you drag yourself into the future. It might be messy, but there is at least some sense of self-awareness and excitement. It might be messy or whatever, but then there is being dragged. (chuckles) There is that and then there is being dragged around like a rag doll with its eyes x’ed out. [00:11:00] For whatever reason – it might be PTSD; it might be other issues. I was saying that we already have so little control, way less than we think we do in our lives. There is that. There is just the every day, but then there are the people who have even less because they’re just being willy-nilly dragged around by this thing that’s causing them to not really be able to understand their situation. (pause)
THERAPIST: You know, as much as some of the stories we were talking about yesterday – women when you were very young, girls, women – feeling like stories of your early, young, burgeoning sexual interest and preoccupation, the underside of so many of them is a kind of being dragged around and over-stimulated. [00:12:16] Do you know what I mean?
CLIENT: Yeah, of course. It’s way too young for a lot of this stuff.
THERAPIST: It’s way too young.
CLIENT: You have no idea what’s going on.
THERAPIST: It matters that she’s older. The story where she’s 14 and you’re 9, it actually matters a lot. There is a big difference. And of course you like it. Even people who are raped can have sexual feeling during rape. It doesn’t mean you want it to happen.
CLIENT: Really? Wow, that’s really creepy.
THERAPIST: That’s an extreme, but bodies respond. Bodies respond when they’re stimulated. They just do, so just because it felt good doesn’t mean it was good for you. [00:13:03]
CLIENT: Yeah, clearly. I forgot to tell you another one, which I don’t know if I told you before. In North Carolina, we had very good friends of the family, very nice people. There were three or four occasions where their daughter, Eliza – she didn’t touch me, but we would play this game or something where I was like a photographer and she was like a model. The thing is it’s hard to know when you’re a kid what you exactly remember or don’t, but I do remember feeling kind of stimulated or she was posing provocatively or something. I just remember. Maybe she wasn’t, but I was a little boy and I was like “what’s that?” [00:14:03] I seem to remember something.
THERAPIST: You were [aroused sexually] (ph?) about.
CLIENT: Yeah, something. (pause)
THERAPIST: You know, even some of what could be a kind of ordinary feeling in that story, like sometimes play can have an erotic overtone. That can happen, but if you start to couple that with being under-stimulated in so many other ways, it’s like that was the source of stimulation, too; it became a sexual one. I’m contrasting that memory with your being – like the beige rug. You’re a latch-key kid and you’re alone and you’re flipping through the TV all afternoon by yourself; then there is sexual stuff. Of course, that becomes a way to feel alive, then. It’s the aliveness of feeling known and seen and loved in more benign, less-erotic ways, in a way that feels comforting and whole.
CLIENT: That’s true. That’s true. (pause)
THERAPIST: Your memory is more of the garage – the gas station, in the garage with your dad and kicking a ball around. And yes, it’s fun. It’s him. You’re with your dad and he’s with his buddies, but it’s not like he’s having a lot of interaction with you. It’s really still quite lonely. [00:15:58]
CLIENT: Right. (pause) Even in that way, I guess my dad and I were very different. My heater has not been working. My friend has been trying to fix it and ordered a part. His son always comes with him. His son is between 12 and 13 or whatever. It’s like he has a genuine interest in his dad’s – he’s a very nice kid, very bright, very polite, very sweet. – and he helps his dad. He’s very smart. I didn’t have that with my dad. If I was a different kind of kid, maybe, when I was at that garage, I’d be like, “Dad, how do you do this? What’s this?” I don’t know. Maybe I was just too shy to feign any interest. [00:17:02] Feign – hah. It’s a bummer in a way because it wasn’t that I wasn’t interested, it kind of didn’t seem fun. Sure, I’d like to know how to take apart a carburetor.
THERAPIST: Not that much.
CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah. We couldn’t connect, really, on that. I loved him. I just loved him, but I couldn’t connect on that level.
THERAPIST: The shared activity.
CLIENT: Except for soccer. We had that. (pause) But even then I stopped doing it. It was just so weird when you’re that shy. When we came back here I couldn’t just play. There was a really good Assyrian league. [00:18:00] I didn’t because at that point I was 13 or 14, so it’s that age where you’re starting to . . . I just could not do it. I was so shy. That would have been nice. I probably would have made a lot of friends – and a lot of those people are life-long friends because of the community. And I would have been good. I’m a pretty good soccer player. In some ways, not that I feel bad, but I do feel like more than . . . My mom and I – you know – but my dad and I, I think, if I was just less shy we could have connected on stuff. Instead it was just one thing to totally love your parents and another thing to have more interaction. Even for my own dad I was just kind of like . . .
THERAPIST: Shy even with him maybe. [00:19:01]
CLIENT: Yeah, just something. I can’t put my finger on it, but other kids were like, “Dad, I want to play soccer.” I kept very much to myself.
THERAPIST: That’s what I was wondering when you kept saying “shy. I was so shy.” What do you actually mean by that. It can actually mean a lot of different things.
CLIENT: Like getting along with everyone but never putting myself in certain situations. If I am in a situation, then I deal. It wasn’t like I was some kind of outcast or freaky. It wasn’t like that kind of thing. Even then, all this stuff started then. I didn’t realize it. [00:19:59] No, it’s actually everyone likes me. I just felt like there were the kids who were on the soccer team already – and then there’s me. Do you know what I’m saying? Whereas other kids either just don’t think about that or they have enough gumption to be like “but I want to play.” They just go and play. In some ways, it’s even sadder that I wasn’t a freaky kid because that would explain it. Like in high school, there were kids I knew that there was something odd about them. They were probably lovely kids, but unfortunately going through that age range . . .
THERAPIST: They weren’t going to, necessarily, fit in. There is not a place for you.
CLIENT: Yeah, they were not going to fit in. That wasn’t the case for me. I went through all of high school thinking “I don’t fit in,” only to look back and see “wait a minute – everybody liked me in high school.” [00:20:57] For some reason, from the very beginning I had a view of things that wasn’t real. (pause) It’s just amazing.
THERAPIST: It really means, then, that in a way, you were kind of insecure.
CLIENT: Oh, yeah. Probably. No, not probably – totally insecure; because at home you don’t feel like you’re being built up – kids are kids, right? They’re robust and loud and so full of life, so if you’re coming at it like everything is kind of negative and something and there is you and everybody else then, of course, at that age you can’t figure shit out. You don’t know what’s going on.
THERAPIST: People already struggle with that feeling, even when things are going [relatively well.] (ph?) [00:22:01]
CLIENT: That’s right. That’s right. That’s what it is to be a kid. Your parents are supposed to be the people that get you through that because they went through that themselves. But when your whole – not lineage – the trajectory is all fucked up, My parents – what could they relate to? There’s nothing to relate to. They went through hell. There is none of this “ when you’re a kid you get to . . .” (chuckling) They’re dealing with wolves and scorpions. They have real problems. It’s in a totally different part of the world.
THERAPIST: They couldn’t relate.
CLIENT: No.
THERAPIST: [All of you were alone.] (ph?) [00:23:01] It’s another way that the coma starts as a child.
CLIENT: Oh, yeah. That’s why that beige – that’s what I’m saying.
THERAPIST: I said to you at the very end yesterday as you were talking about why these women are not stopping themselves and I said that you could, too, that the flip side of the story is do you want to be doing this? Is this good for you? Having agency over oneself has been missing, even when you’re being pulled into a closet; a 14-year-old making out with you. You’re a passive recipient of the world happening to you instead of activating in your own mind deciding do I want to be doing this? Does this make sense for me? Does it feel right? (pause) [00:24:04] When you don’t have anyone who recognizes your experience and says “I get it; I see you,” you start losing – there’s no perspective on you. The coma begins.(pause)
CLIENT: It’s funny because yesterday I was doing some research and I looked up the courses that are going to be offered at the university in Assyria in the spring; and I was like “who is this person?” I looked it up and it was this guy who attended a US school. It was good because, at first, I went to where I would normally go, which would be like “who the fuck is this guy? This is my thing.” [00:25:09] I’ve always had that. That’s the other thing that I had when I was a kid. Like remember when I got the stitches because the ketchup was out? I didn’t like sharing. It took me a long time to learn how to share – like Pepsi, things that were my domain or whatever. (pause) Just the way I catch myself now with like “who is this fucking band?” I try to stop myself and be like, first of all, who gives a shit? But second of all, it’s a big world and there can be lots of good bands (chuckles) and whatever. You can’t compare it. That’s what my mom does. [00:26:00] It was kind of good that yesterday I stopped myself. I was like who gives a shit? What, am I the only person who’s going to teach at the university? Because it immediately gave me fear that that’s like my mom. But he’s already there and he could be a better teacher than me. Maybe he’s already done with his PhD and he’s way smarter and he knows way more about literature than I do. Dude, what are you . . ? I had to stop myself, but then I forced myself to be like no, he’s probably a really nice guy and it will be really cool. We’ll probably be like friends and it will be someone who gets it who is from here.
THERAPIST: Again, when there isn’t a complete and solid foundation of feeling good about yourself, anything can feel like an intimidation of your sense of yourself. [00:27:07]
CLIENT: Right, which I hate because it means that sometimes it’s like a tenuous self-confidence. It’s real, but it’s fragile sometimes. I don’t like that. It had gotten way, way better, but I had to stop myself.
THERAPIST: It’s still fragile.
CLIENT: Yeah, I was like what the fuck, man? Who gives a shit? Some fucking dumb-ass from Indiana? He’s probably a very nice guy. So what? This is what I thought about it: why didn’t I feel that way about Walter in the U.K.? He’s a little younger than me. And then I realized it’s the Assyrian thing. It’s like a family. It triggers feelings, whereas Walter is a Jamaican dude. I’m like oh, good. He’s a totally different person. Good for him. He’s a nice guy. [00:28:01] That’s one thing I’m slightly worried about, but I’m just going to have to deal with it. I am different when I go to Assyrian events. It triggers; I immediately go back to being kind of all closed off and almost antagonistic. I want to be rebellious. There is so much conformity and everyone is looking at each other and gossiping. It’s like you’re going to a big family get-together.
THERAPIST: It triggers all that stuff inside you.
CLIENT: Instead of being able to stop and say, “Wait a minute. These are totally different people that have nothing to do with me.” (pause) [00:29:10] Then there was also a positive because he teaches an American Literature Survey course. I was like “that’s good.” That means the woman is not blowing smoke. They are wanting to do non-ESL, actual things, so that’s good. I have plenty of ideas so . . . (pause) [00:30:06]
THERAPIST: And the idea of mine, my Pepsi.
CLIENT: That’s one thing I always feel bad about when I look back. My poor little cousin, my cousin, Nanni; she just wanted to copy everything I did. It was so cute, but I would get so angry.
THERAPIST: If she wanted a sip you mean?
CLIENT: No, it was like I wanted a Pepsi and she’d want a Pepsi. If we go to the McDonald’s after the swimming pool I’ll have a Big Mac and she wants a Big Mac, too. That would make me angry because “I’m the big kid. You’re little.” But I would; for some reason I would really get upset. Like that was my thing.
THERAPIST: Like your identity. [00:31:00]
CLIENT: Yeah. And I had that all through high school, unfortunately – not at the high school, but in other settings I would. There was a lot of stuff going on inside. I wanted attention, like “why isn’t this person paying attention to me?” I would get so into a dark place. But again, on the other hand, I would actually do shit. Like now there are those moleskin notebooks? I would buy – not those, but sketchbooks and I would write in them and draw in them. To me that’s more normal. You’re a teenager going through hell. [00:32:03] There were lots of times where I would – what’s it called? – self-flagellation. Like one time I drew all these characters – I can’t draw at all – but I kept drawing big noses. I hated myself so much and I had acne. Here’s the funny thing – there was this one girl, Amelia, when I was a sophomore or junior in high school; an Assyrian girl. I could have totally made a move on her. In retrospect, I was the one. We were hanging out, we were both artsy whatever we were back then, kind of half-punky, artsy, gothy, whatever the fuck, and here was this Assyrian-American girl. But instead I would go home “she doesn’t like me” and draw all these nasty pictures of myself. [00:33:06] Two things. One, I could have totally done something. I was the one who didn’t make a move. And two, she’s not even attractive. We’re still friends, but she’s totally not my type.
THERAPIST: There was so much self-loathing that you couldn’t see what was real.
CLIENT: Exactly.
THERAPIST: I think that’s what I was trying to say yesterday that there are still pretty loud hints of that when you’re talking about why these women are coming home with me? Of course, you get on the one hand why they are doing that and it would be better for them not to do that if they want a relationship. On the other hand, there is still a part of you that sounds like you’re in disbelief that maybe you’re attractive to them and [ ] (inaudible at 00:34:02) [00:34:03]
CLIENT: I thought about that after I left here. That does happen all the time.
THERAPIST: Maybe that’s you and that will happen if you want it to with a lot of women. With every single woman that could happen because of you. You still don’t quite know that.
CLIENT: No, I don’t get that. I don’t get that. (pause) That’s where it is sad. It’s conflagration of if your mom and your family are so focused on appearance and all that so you’ve never felt attractive. But if you’re hyper-sexualized young, those images of models or porn or whatever – that started. What’s a lingerie magazine? Give me a break. It’s just commercialized, G-rated porn. [00:35:06] I’m sorry. Look at these thigh-high stockings. Come on. That doesn’t help. So from a young age, clearly I’m not attractive because I listen to what my family says about others; and I’ve started way too early with the images that are everywhere. I can’t imagine now. This is a fucking nightmare when you’re 12 and you just hop on . . . I can’t even imagine the fucking stuff going on. Or just on your phone. Look at this disgusting or whatever image. I think that didn’t help me.
THERAPIST: Dually focused on physical, physical, physical appearance. Erotic physical appearance and also the way you feel. [00:36:01]
CLIENT: That’s not normal. Those images are not every-day, normal, regular – both for women and men. These dudes that work out all day and have a huge penis or whatever. There are things about them that are not average people and women are looking at these thin chicks with huge breasts. (chuckles) If you’re not old enough to understand that that’s a fantasy and it has nothing to do with . . .
THERAPIST: Literally airbrushed often. Not real.
CLIENT: Oftentimes things aren’t real.
THERAPIST: Or they have massive eating disorders. Men, too.
CLIENT: There is just so much loaded in those kinds of things with nonsense that if you’re way too young to get it – I mean older people don’t get it, let alone . . . [00:37:06]And then if you’re feeling like you’re being put down all the time. Even if you’re not you’re putting yourself down all the time. I don’t know what my point was.
THERAPIST: We were talking about the degradation of even your belief in . . .
CLIENT: Oh, right. And then what happens now is that I get it and I don’t get it. It’s almost like a dual thing. Now I’m very comfortable with who I am, but that’s a little different than being comfortable with yourself just as an attractive object, like someone who can be objectified by someone else. Because that’s fun, of course. When you’re into somebody that’s part of the fun. That is what attraction partly is. [00:37:59] I get the other parts. I like myself and I even get that I guess I’m attractive. I feel good. I look in the mirror, but that level of visceral – yeah, it’s tough.
THERAPIST: I wonder if one of the problems that you’re talking about is that it’s still so split between when I’m talking about myself, approval of myself, and then attractive. And attractive, the way you talk about it, is only . . .
CLIENT: No, I can see how they’re attracted to that part. Of course. There is being attracted to the person and then there is being attracted like “I just want to bang this person.” They have a lot of overlap, no doubt, but what I’m saying is that I’m way more comfortable. I do get it. I get it that when I’m talking with someone that I somehow draw people and maybe I’m really good at conversation or I’m witty or I’m a very interesting guy or whatever the fuck. I’m charming. [00:39:07] I accept all that now and it feels good. I’m saying that the other part is harder for me. Do you understand what I’m saying? I get at a bar why a chick is really into talking to me and I know that part of that is that she’s not going to talk to me if she wasn’t also physically wanting to be near me, but that part I get less than the part that “this dude is really interesting and cool.” Do you understand what I’m saying?
THERAPIST: “Get less” meaning you don’t see it in yourself?
CLIENT: I see it less. I have less ownership of that. That’s what I’m saying. I totally own now the fact that, yeah, I’m a pretty cool and very interesting guy and I’m very lucky because that’s something that builds even more confidence because I’m like now I get why my older Assyrian friends are so cool. [00:40:02] It doesn’t matter if they don’t have hair or they have a big pot belly. They’re just fucking cool. There is something attractive about that. Or Tony Soprano or those kinds of guys. They just own who they are. What I’m saying is the part where a woman just wants to blow me in the car. That has something to do with my whole personality, but clearly – right? That part I’m always in very happy surprise when that happens. Do you see what I’m saying?
THERAPIST: I do. I don’t know exactly what’s going on in each of these people’s psyches, but it still feels a little like you’re split up in not seeing yourself as a whole person, like they are all part one person.
CLIENT: But those are different parts, right? [00:41:00] You go into a bar and someone hasn’t even opened their mouths and you want to have sex with them.
THERAPIST: But then they open your mouths and if you don’t like who they are, they can suddenly become much less attractive.
CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, right. But, let’s face it, a lot of time sex happens between people – you see it all the time in TV shows and movies, right? A girl is just fucking some very attractive dude and she keeps telling him to shut up because he’s saying dumb . . .
THERAPIST: It’s a movie. (laughs)
CLIENT: I understand.
THERAPIST: I’m not saying that doesn’t happen, but . . .
CLIENT: That’s an extreme, but I’m saying a lot of sex happens where you’re like “the person is kind of . . . that’s not going to go anywhere but, man, they were just so sexy.”
THERAPIST: But you’re not even talking about people who are saying they just want to have sex and be out of there, Brian. You were talking about people who were saying they were actually interested in a relationship.
CLIENT: Yeah, I guess.
THERAPIST: So they’re not just interested in you to have sex. [00:41:59]
CLIENT: But I’m saying both of them – that might be true, but the sex is definitely hyper-sexualized from the beginning. So whether they want to get serious or not, that’s a very weird way – not weird. I’m not . . .
THERAPIST: I get that that’s weird. I understand what you’re saying.
CLIENT: Unless I’m wrong. Maybe that’s how everyone is getting together these days.
THERAPIST: No. No, no, no.
CLIENT: But I don’t think it is. All my friends go on dates and on the third or fourth date they have sex; or maybe on the first date they make out. I have more extreme situations oftentimes on my hands.
THERAPIST: We used to talk about were you hyper-sexualized with them. Does it feel like that’s lessening? In other words, being seductive, being like “can I get this woman to want to have sex with me?”
CLIENT: Oh, is that less now? It kind of is because now it doesn’t feel like a big deal. Now it feels like Jesus Christ. Listen, this Okay, Stupid thing? One of my friends – remember the one girl I said I like as a person? She is like this is hot to me and sexy. She’s very fun and sexy and all that. I would flirt with her and say things about her bringing a girlfriend with her and whatever. She is so fucking awesome that she was like, “You know, I’ll do that for you. You’re moving and you’ve never done that and I want to be part of that. I want to make that happen for you.” That’s not sleazy or weird to me. That’s someone who I already know and we already have a history. She’s a good person and she just likes sex like I do, but she’s not a douche bag or a sleaze bag. [00:44:02] So on Okay, Stupid I made a profile, like a female bi looking for . . . It’s so fascinating as a dude. I didn’t say that I was a woman, I used her info but I’m like it’s me and her and whatever. Maybe that is what’s happening now because there are all these totally professional, otherwise-together women who are like “Yep, I’m into that.” It’s like what? I guess that’s great, but I don’t know if (chuckles) that’s just what’s happening now? I don’t know what I’m saying. I think all of it is, again – I think you’re right – it all goes back down to I just have trouble on some level being totally comfortable with the fact that I can have any of that or whatever. [00:45:02]
THERAPIST: Or what it is even about you. Like I wonder. We talked about your seeing her, talking about her.
CLIENT: Seeing her?
THERAPIST: In other words, whoever your with is really attending to her mind in the beginning for a long time even sort of yourself not really existing and making it look like you were talking about yourself but never really doing that, the recognition of being seen in another way. These are all kinds of big parts of you, things that you would do in a relationship that could be appealing to a person, but that I don’t think has ever been seen by your parents, like recognizing that you’re good at seeing people and people enjoy being seen. Or a poet is going to be incredibly sensitive and articulate. [00:46:02]
CLIENT: Even little things, like a gentle ribbing that could mean nothing, but actually it means a lot to a young person. Like if your dad is like “my son is going to do great with the ladies; a musician, a poet,” or whatever. But never. Nothing. Maybe he would have. Maybe we were getting to that point that maybe he would have seen it, because I also kept myself hidden. It’s hard to say that about your kid if your kid is not out there playing rock and roll. In a way it was hard, I think, for him to even think “does this kid even know any girls?” Do you know what I mean? Because I always stayed in my room. It’s not like I had a rock band in the garage. [00:46:58]
THERAPIST: I do, but I also think it starts with knowing your kid when he’s three, too, and being in awe of your child and thinking he’s the next best thing to sliced bread because he’s him; and then that gets internalized. And it doesn’t sound like that happened. Next time.
CLIENT: 2:20? See you tomorrow.
THERAPIST: Bye.
END TRANSCRIPT
