TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: ...wondering.

CLIENT: Better safe than sorry. (sigh)

THERAPIST: These are your two signed copies.

CLIENT: Oh thank you so much.

THERAPIST: I don’t know if you need more. You can get photocopies.

CLIENT: Yeah. I am sure it is fine. Thank you so much, Claire. I appreciate it. Thank you. (sigh) Yeah, I mean it should be. They are not more specific than what they say in that link. Do you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: So I don’t know what else they could possibly want.

THERAPIST: Everything that was there is included.

CLIENT: Okay. Yeah. Cool. Thank you. It is actually kind of good timing because I finally did hear back from UConn. So they are ready to help me finish up.

THERAPIST: Oh!

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Wow!

CLIENT: One thing I don’t understand is there is something about they have to convince the graduate registrar or something of why I wasn’t registered. I kind of couldn’t tell. So they basically need whatever documentation. Like what I was doing, I guess, this whole time. So I might need a version of that letter without the cat part. [00:01:19]

THERAPIST: (laughs)

CLIENT: Just saying that this is what I have been dealing with. You know?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And then I guess if I just have even something, just the thing from Brown and London saying, “Yes, he was here.” I don’t know.

THERAPIST: From those universities saying that is part of what you were doing, you mean?

CLIENT: I guess. Yeah. I guess they want just some kind of In a way I am not sure I understand. Let me read it to you because I don’t understand actually what Lloyd was saying. Because in a way I don’t want to incriminate myself. Then aren’t they going to say, “What the hell. Why didn’t you just finish here? Why were you “ (laughs) I don’t know what.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: So he said (pause), okay. So he said, “Documentation.” I said, “Okay, let me know anything and I will put it together. Whatever you need.” [00:02:20]

“The more official looking the better. I am not sure I know all the reasons but anything you can come up with beyond your own personal statement. Doctors reports, passports, diplomas. Think of anything else you can come up with. The main issue, it has been explained to me, is that the university is going to want to be reimbursed for all the semesters you weren’t registered.”

What does that mean? I don’t know what that means?

THERAPIST: Is there a registration fee? Do you pay every semester to be enrolled as a registered student?

CLIENT: I guess. Yeah. But then why would they Reimbursed for what though? If I wasn’t there what are they going to be reimbursed for?

THERAPIST: I think in order to Like if you don’t pay to stay on as a registered student there you are considered dropping out.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: And then they can’t reinstate you. So in other words, in order to retroactively say -

CLIENT: Oh!

THERAPIST: “Okay, well let him finish his degree but you now have to pay your fees as though you have been -

CLIENT: There the whole time.

THERAPIST: a student, at least registered. It is probably some It is not like a course fee. [00:03:26]

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: Maybe 50 dollars a semester. I don’t know what it would be. But something like that.

CLIENT: But it is still going to be a lot of money.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I mean it has been years and years.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Huh. Okay, so, “...going to want to be reimbursed for all the semesters you weren’t And you need to prove the necessity of not being registered.” (pause)

THERAPIST: A little hard to prove. Like you could have paid 50 dollars even when you had gone to London.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: I don’t know how.

CLIENT: Alright.

THERAPIST: You might want to write him back for clarification.

CLIENT: I mean, the thing is, the poor guy, is he is kind of being an intermediary. So I think he is not, you know, entirely sure either. But, yeah, I will just tell him -

THERAPIST: Maybe you can say, “Who should I talk to so I can more clarification.” You don’t want to put forward something that is then going to hurt you.

CLIENT: That’s the I think I am going to tell him, “Well, I am not sure. I don’t want to present anything that then is going to make it “ I don’t know. I mean, honestly, I would think what is in your letter is enough. I mean (laughs) everything That is so clearly spelled out that it is clear that, yeah, this person could not function in any kind of consistent way. So, I will see if maybe that is enough. [00:04:46]

Because I feel like, well, if I just say I mean, if say I was at Brown they are going to be like, “What the fuck?”

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: “Why should we help you out. You left us to go to “ That doesn’t make any sense. You know? I could, however He says also death certificates. I mean I could. I mean it is fucking morbid but I guess I could get my aunt and my grandfather’s. Although I found out it is like 50 dollars to get a death certificate. I mean it is like everything is money (ph). (sigh)

THERAPIST: You should talk to the registrar.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And see because they may be able to say, “Oh no. These are the circumstances where we would allow that. Mental health leave.”

CLIENT: Right. Right.

THERAPIST: So then you would know to just do that part.

CLIENT: Yeah. I think. I have a feeling. Yeah. But anyway, I am just psyched that it is -

THERAPIST: There is a potential.

CLIENT: They obviously want to. They obviously want to. I mean I think they would have just said, “We can’t do it.” So obviously there is a way to do it. Do you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: Because he talked to the I called the department chair and all that stuff. I mean they would have already told me that they can’t. [00:05:57]

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: So that is good.

THERAPIST: It is great. (pause) So if this all gets cleared out, the registrar stuff, then it takes writing your thesis.

CLIENT: Honestly, I will just slop together stuff I already have from London and stuff.

THERAPIST: But that is what I mean. Like that is all there is?

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

THERAPIST: You don’t have All your classes are done.

CLIENT: Everything is done. I have just got to hand in this fucking project. It is nothing. It is absolutely nothing.

THERAPIST: Do you have to defend it?

CLIENT: No. No. Because it is a master’s degree. There is nothing to You don’t have to defend. As a matter of fact I think they even have (laughs) like a, it is a thesis or project option for more creative writing.

THERAPIST: Uh huh.

CLIENT: So I think I could even hand in like a -

THERAPIST: Hand in the book of poems you are working on.

CLIENT: Yeah. That is exactly what I am going to do. And then that with like a I think you just have to write some kind of like, “This is what I was reading during this time. And this is what “ You know, kind of like discuss your work, kind of. It is really not a big deal. So, yeah, that will be great. (pause) [00:07:19]

THERAPIST: That is amazing that that is all that is left.

CLIENT: You said it yourself in the letter, right? That is what happens when things are, you know. When you are in that kind of state of mind you just, it doesn’t matter what is only left or what is Do you know what I mean? You can’t think straight.

You can’t even think straight enough to go like, “Do I really want to go to Brown?” Or, “Wait, how about I just finish. This is so easy. Why don’t I just finish this?” I mean there is no You are somehow not in control of clear thinking. You know?

(long pause) [00:08:14]

But it has been a very productive week. There is a woman in Assyria who I knew here from Yale. She is like this older French Assyrian lady. Very intelligent woman. Cool lady. She wrote me yesterday and said, “Your resume is You have such amazing skills that would be great here,” bah, bah, bah. She was like, “There are some people. I have a few things in mind.” And she was like “I will get back to you in a few days. Let me contact a few people.”

THERAPIST: Oh!

CLIENT: Yeah. She is kind of big shot. She runs a huge nonprofit something. So that would be cool.

THERAPIST: That is exciting.

CLIENT: Yeah. That would be cool. Because I am really, I mean, I am nervous. I am not going there with much money. This is not going to This is really going to be cutting it close. Really, really cutting it close. So that is the only thing that is making me kind of nervous. But (sigh). [00:09:20]

THERAPIST: Have you yet posted the apartment?

CLIENT: Yeah. Yep. That is up.

THERAPIST: So that could bring a check your way.

CLIENT: Oh yeah. As soon as that But, yeah.

THERAPIST: No?

CLIENT: No, it will. It will. I am definitely not going there with like five or, you know. I mean, to move to a whole other country even if it is just for a few months.

THERAPIST: You need some cash.

CLIENT: Yeah. You want to go with like five grand or whatever or something like that. I am not going with that. But I will get every month, whatever it is, 500 bucks or whatever. And if I can quickly start some kind of job then I will be fine. You know?

(long pause, tapping sounds)

But yeah. (tapping sounds) I took a part of my website and I put my C.V. on there, all my writing links and this and that. That is good. (pause, tapping sounds) [00:10:33]

And I wrote to Walter (ph) in London to ask how is it going there. I am just going to write to the registrar directly, actually. I don’t know why I am asking him. I mean, because he asked so that is why I am asking him.

But he wrote to the registrar but then we didn’t hear anything back. So I think I am just going to write directly. I am just going to be like, “I am almost done.” And I started writing so that has been good. I got a bunch of index cards. I came up with a new system. I just have a shitload of index cards, on each index card is just like a memory or some kind of snapshot.

I was like, you know what? I am just going to start with that. Like compartmentalize. And then if each one of those cards is like three pages that is already like a hundred (laughs) page book right there. Do you know what I mean? (pause) [00:11:44]

THERAPIST: And you are still [enacting the process of what actually happened as it gets cut up into pieces.]

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:11:54)

CLIENT: Yeah, I talked to my friend Alp (sp) about this, yeah. We were saying how this is the problem. These stories, not just my families but a lot of my kind of families, you just can’t make this shit up. You know? And the problem is She is right about one thing, that it is a bit of a language issue. It is like, how do you write about this stuff in English? You know? Some of it doesn’t translate.

THERAPIST: Particular kind of experiences?

CLIENT: There is something about it that doesn’t translate in English. It is hard to describe and it is hard to evoke what is in your mind. Because what is in your mind is so rooted in this cultural You know? So some of it sounds flat, even boring. Like the memory just comes out like, “That is not interesting.” Or something. Something just doesn’t translate about it very well.

Or it just sounds like one of these stupid, like all these novels that are, “Oh, my fucking family in Mumbai,” or whatever. These kind of like very Anglicized, western, watered down, immigrant. They are all the same story over and over and over. [00:13:05]

It is like it has become like its own genre that is just palatable for white people to feel like they connect with the world. But really there is nothing really other than just kind of some schlocky entertainment value, there is really no literary -

Like what is really the art? What is the point? There are a lot of books like that about kind of making you a little teary eyed about identity stuff and, you know. And she is right. Alp (sp) is right about that. She is very hard-nosed about that kind of thing. Now I can’t do anything about that because I am not like her. I have to write it in English. So for me it is a little more I don’t have that choice. You know?

So that is why it is what is what you said. That is why I was like, you know what? Then just chop it all up. It is already impossible to tell it in some kind of linear way. You might as well just chop it up. And I am going to try to write about it very straight. Like take myself out of it. Because I think that is the other thing I don’t like. [00:14:10]

Because otherwise it is going to sound like some kind of angry You know, I just can’t help it. It is just going to sound angry and sad. So it is almost going to be like some kind of reportage type writing. You know, just very like, “They did this. They did that.” You know? (pause)

THERAPIST: I mean, the way you talk about it to me it never actually sounds like the central essence is an immigrant’s story. There is so much more as you are talking about it that has to do with memory and waking up that is very -

It ties in your experience of family or your experience that ties in with Assyrian history. But that is its own thing, that broken up sense of self and how memory gets sort of pieced apart. And how do you put this all together in one place. Do you know what I mean? [00:15:29]

CLIENT: Kind of.

THERAPIST: No?

CLIENT: But it is hard to separate.

THERAPIST: Oh, I am not saying you would. It is impossible to separate. But it feels -

CLIENT: But you are saying the main theme is kind of about Yeah. I mean, I don’t know. Quite honestly, I am not even sure what the main. I don’t know. That is why I am thinking maybe this needs to be very different than what I thought. Maybe it almost does need to be like a, even if it is a novel, it has to be in some kind of like almost like a cultural history type way. Not some kind of like Do you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: So I was even thinking there could be letters in there. There could be newspaper clippings. I am not sure how that works exactly. I mean, obviously I think I would have to make all that up, I guess, or something.

But in other words, that it would be some kind of more like a document even if it is fake, even if it is fictionalized. Because I can’t tell. I don’t know what is the story to tell? It is such a clusterfuck. Which one do I tell? You know? So it is better that it just be some kind of piecemeal set of documents or something. [00:16:42]

THERAPIST: Do you remember the title you thought of? I don’t know if you are still sticking to that.

CLIENT: “Icing Glass?” Oh.

THERAPIST: Not of your poetry.

CLIENT: Oh. “There is No Hiding Place Down Here?”

THERAPIST: No. [I already read that one.] (ph) (laughs)

CLIENT: Wow. That is a good one.

THERAPIST: It is a different one. I am not going to get all the words right but it was something about, “I don’t know where I have been.”

CLIENT: Oh, the recent. Recently.

THERAPIST: Yes.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

THERAPIST: In other words, that captures the feeling of being lost which is very That is not going to be the central theme of every pop story you are talking about. It is a very particular story. I mean, in a way, Brian, I guess one of the things I am trying to say is, you know how we talked about how hard it is for you, even in here, to kind of get into the particulars of your experience?

There are so many particulars that are your story that are not in anyone else’s story that is unique. You know, you are so -

CLIENT: Well then you are saying that it does have to be about me. [00:17:52]

THERAPIST: Maybe. I mean, it always sounds like you are talking about you even if you are not talking, even if you don’t write it autobiographically.

CLIENT: But that is the thing. That is what she is saying. She is like, you know, obviously, how could it not be about you?

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I mean you are the one writing. But just that to not make it It does become Once you get past a couple of pages that is some very self indulgent You know, to make it And also, how do you maintain that for 200 pages or whatever? I mean that is, you know. So in other words, yes, some memories I write about of course it has to be me. You know, so if that little piece is about playing with my grandmother, well I am there. You know?

But that is not every single little chapter or whatever is from my perspective, my memory. Because by telling these other stories then it is already clear that, you know, as the son of all this then obviously that it somehow is very deeply related. [00:19:03]

THERAPIST: You are stuck in this kind of that it is self-indulgent. What is the problem (ph)?

CLIENT: I mean, I have never had an interest in reading a whole book that would be only about, like very strictly memoir. Kind of like, “This is what happened to me.”

THERAPIST: What if it is fictional? Are you saying even then it feels (inaudible at 19:26)?

CLIENT: Oh, fictionalized? But that is what this is going to be. But I am saying even fictionalized it can’t just be 200 pages of this one That is really hard to pull off. Like I don’t think that is I don’t think I have that in me. I don’t know what I would have to say for 200 pages about that particular theme. I need other things to buttress. Do you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Sure, sure, sure.

CLIENT: But, yeah, of course. I mean, there are going to be all kinds of parts that are then me. You know? But then, you know, these other stories are so crazy and they speak to those parts about me.

THERAPIST: Yes, yes. It is more like you are talking about the intergenerational transmission of trauma.

CLIENT: Mm hm. Exactly. And that I am the only one who doesn’t know where I have been. These fuckers don’t know where they have been. I am the one trying to wake up from it. They are just resigned to it. So that is what needs to be made clear. So they will be -

THERAPIST: So that could start 200 years ago. [00:20:34]

CLIENT: Yeah. I am not going to, but yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So in a way it will be very much about me. Those parts where I am in the memory that will be maybe the parts of the book where it is like, wow, so this is what This is the result of all this other stuff of that is in the book. You know?

THERAPIST: Mm hm.

CLIENT: Something like that. I am not sure. But the important thing is just the fact of doing it. Like just the index cards, writing the memories on each card. That is pretty cool. You know? (pause)

THERAPIST: You bought your ticket.

CLIENT: Yep. Got my ticket.

THERAPIST: And you are writing. (laughs)]

CLIENT: Yup.

THERAPIST: It is a big deal.

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean it is already paying off, going to Assyria, even though I haven’t gone yet. Yeah, it is necessary.

(pause, tapping sounds) [00:21:57]

Yeah, because I think I am finally in the place where I am not, you know. I look at my CV now and I am like, “What?” I mean, come on. Give me a break. I am finally owning up to how qualified I am and how much I have to offer. Do you know what I mean?

And that changes a lot of things. Even with writing. I think the reason I am writing now because I was like, “Well, how does this other writer do it.” How did fucking Nabokov. It is like, do you know what? I don’t give a shit. I don’t even like Nabokov that much.

THERAPIST: (laughs)

CLIENT: You know? So I don’t care how other people did it. You know? It is just -

(long pause, sighs) [00:23:09]

It is like I have been doing what they do. Like my whole life I have been comparing. Do you know what I mean? Like comparing myself to others. That is (sigh) Even though I hate that I was doing it.

(long pause, tapping sounds)

It is like the very thing I have told them, no, the very thing that upsets me about them which is that they don’t own up to their own talents and value and worth and this. It is like I have tried not to do that but I have done that to myself a lot. Do you know what I mean? It has taken me up until now. You know? That is why I was always like two steps forward, four steps back. One step forward, three steps back. It is like, you know? [00:24:21]

(long pause, tapping sounds)

THERAPIST: [You’re feeling how to feel] (ph) kind of a rage at them for not being themselves and living up to themselves.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And yet you are also saying you are not going to do the same.

CLIENT: Yeah. (pause)

THERAPIST: [Or feeling out your capacity] (ph) in your self-doubt and self-loathing.

CLIENT: Yeah. That is why, I don’t know, I think there is something very liberating about going to Assyria. I never thought I would say that in my life. I didn’t even want to go that much and now I find it very liberating. You know? I am like, you know what? I am going somewhere where not only have I never been, yet I have friends there so that I will have that comfort. [00:25:25]

But really I will be able to just It is a whole new fucking world. And it is a meaningful It is not just like I am going to explore London. You know? That is amazing. But here every little place I explore is going to have a lot of meaning to it. You know? And I think, yeah, I think it is right. You know? It is really good timing. (pause)

THERAPIST: Well it also representative, it is a concrete version right now of what you have doing internally anyway in separating.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: In a way, you are saying, “It is freeing to go to Assyria.” I think you have been saying it is freeing to let go of looking for something from this family that you will never get.

CLIENT: Yeah. That is right. That is right. And look how quickly, right after last week, yeah, that sucked. But look at that. Just a couple of days later I am getting shit done. [00:26:37]

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I am, you know, it is night and day almost. You know? I am following through on things. You know, it is not all perfect but that is a lot. UConn, writing, getting jobs.

THERAPIST: [It’s a ton.] (ph)

CLIENT: You know, I mean, preparing to move. Whatever. Renting the apartment. I mean it is a lot of shit. So, you know.

(long pause)

CLIENT: I have a question about the letter. There is one thing I don’t know what that means. I got the PTSD, I got the anxiety, I got the something else. What is the rhythm something? [00:27:42]

THERAPIST: Dysthymic disorder?

CLIENT: Yeah, what is that.

THERAPIST: It just means a milder version, a long term milder version of depression.

CLIENT: Oh. Okay.

THERAPIST: This is where it is a kind of I mean it is just terminology.

CLIENT: Got it. Got it.

THERAPIST: Some people never meet the criteria for a full on depressive episode but can have a kind of chronic depressive (cross talking at 28:04).

CLIENT: It is a like a low grade fever. (laughs)

THERAPIST: Yeah, exactly.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: And it actually has to be for two years or longer. Whereas, a depressive episode is a more severe version and lasts two weeks or longer.

CLIENT: Right. Right. Well in a way, that makes more sense.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: I have never understood the Actually, I don’t understand That I understand.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Mild depression.

CLIENT: Yeah. Even my friends sometimes. We are like, “That just I mean, who doesn’t get depressed for two weeks?” I mean how is that clinical, in a way? But, yeah, that makes perfect sense. Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

THERAPIST: You know, I think you have had I don’t think you have had a depressive episode, a full depressive episode, in a long time. I put that down because it helps your case to have that have been there in the history.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: But you have had periods where it is, like if it is hard to get out of bed, you are sleeping a lot, you are not eating right.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: Like basic even self-care issues.

CLIENT: Right, right. No, I think when I met you that was depression.

THERAPIST: Yes.

CLIENT: That was. Yeah, yeah. That was. But since then it has been more situational kind of and more like just -

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Or what is happening, I think, gradually is even where there have been things that rather than leading to a month long depression, and it led to two weeks. [00:29:17]

CLIENT: Yeah. Right.

THERAPIST: And then it led to a week and then it went to three days.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: So it has been slowly that the situational things that would have triggered a depression just don’t anymore.

CLIENT: Just don’t. Yeah.

THERAPIST: You get what they mean. You are catching it.

CLIENT: I mean look at this. I mean this is a big deal what happened last week. That is a big deal. Like that could have easily put someone in a tailspin. (laughs) You know, but, yeah. I mean it is also healthy that I am not gloating about it. Do you know what I mean? I do feel bad. I do feel bad. I wish that it didn’t have to be this way. You know?

My uncle is a good guy. I have never said that he is not, whatever, but they don’t understand sometimes until you kind of use blunt language. They don’t fucking get it. They don’t get it. And I am kind of tired of feeling bad about that. So I feel bad about the situation but the situation didn’t need to exist to begin with. It is not my fault. You know? [00:30:20]

Whereas, in the past I would put it on me. I would get all sensitive about it and this and I just don’t fucking care anymore. You know? It is an overall sad situation but (pause)

THERAPIST: Well it is another breaking through of barriers to being in reality, Brian. You were saying, “I am not going to tolerate colluding with your delusions around this anymore.”

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: And here is a place where, you know we talk about like the bubbles that protect you from knowing parts of reality. Your entire family is in a bubble around your grandmother.

CLIENT: Right.

THERAPIST: And there is no one on your side supporting trying to break out of this bubble.

CLIENT: Right. Well, or one day they are, one day they are not. One day they are, one day they are not. Yeah. Which I knew. I mean that is the both sad and beautiful part of this plan. I knew that all I had to do was say that I was going to call and that they were going to freak out. And I also knew that my Mom was going to turn on me (laughs), like the next day. [00:31:29]

You know, now she is all cool but I knew. I knew that they are just not I can’t get them to be consistent. They are going to keep, you know?

(long pause)

THERAPIST: That same day, you know, we have this exchange around the snowstorm and you are showing and not showing, which I know there is a way you could sort of think it was unrelated to the feelings you were having. But I also wonder if there wasn’t something that got repeated here in some way.

Like if my message was confusing to you when I called. You know, if it was just sort of ambiguous something. Or that I have feelings about your not calling to cancel. You were so, so powerfully expressive of your frustrations with your mother before. Like wanting to call her up and have a conversation and then she is upset about something. You know, was there something alive in that in here too around maybe things with money or time? [00:32:52]

CLIENT: Maybe, yeah. I don’t know. (tapping sounds) I don’t know. I mean, yeah, I was like I mean, I wasn’t thinking about but now if I really, really, nitpick at it, yeah, I mean, you know. Maybe on some level I was like, “Well, so are we meeting or are we not?” You know? I don’t want to park in the garage. Whatever. If we have to park in the garage then I am not coming in (laughs) or whatever.

THERAPIST: Did it feel like I didn’t want you to come in? Was there anything like -

CLIENT: No. Not at all.

THERAPIST: Okay.

CLIENT: No, no, no. Not at all. No, I mean it was very clear. You were just like, “Look, it is bad out. If you come in you can’t park on the street. You have go to, you know. Just let me know.” I mean it was actually very clear. Which is why I didn’t think I mean, honestly, I literally glossed over it. (laughs) [00:34:00]

THERAPIST: Yeah, thinking about it after the fact, just so you know, I am not going to charge you for that day because I think I do understand that my message might have left you feeling ambiguous enough about it that it doesn’t make sense to do that to me.

CLIENT: That is okay. It is alright. I appreciate it. That is okay.

THERAPIST: I still think there is something, there is a lot happening in the ambiguity of that day that -

CLIENT: Yeah. I mean, I think you could have been anybody calling me and I was going to shut down.

THERAPIST: And I get that.

CLIENT: Yeah, I just shut down. I was like, who am I going to call and say what right now? I am about to lose my fucking mind. Just beside myself. And that is a whole other. That has nothing to do with you or anybody. That is just a general. Like that I agree with you. I don’t like that, when I get like that. What if I had a job interview, let’s say, by phone? What am I going to do shut down and just bail on the job interview? Do you know what I mean?

You can’t. It happens but I know that that happens with me and I don’t like that. It doesn’t happen much anymore. Like for example, let’s say if it just wasn’t snowing. I think that would have even changed. [00:35:10]

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Because I would have come in and the day would have just, you know. It was just such a like, Jesus Christ, you can’t get out of the house. The plow guy isn’t here yet. Just it was intense. It was just too much.

THERAPIST: Intense with some kind of feeling about being intruded upon.

CLIENT: Yeah, like just smothered and once again, like instead of just having a nice snow day. “Yeah, I probably won’t be able to come in because, yeah, I can’t get out.” Whatever. You know? I was like, yet again I opened my fucking eyes first thing and this is what, again. Like how many times does this keep happening. You know?

But in that way it was good. Because, see, it would be different if I shut down, I didn’t come in here and then it just kind of little things like that kept happening since that day. Do you know what I mean?

THERAPIST: Yeah. Sure.

CLIENT: I stayed shut down. I am all pissed. It was just one day. Even the next day I was out, I talked to my cousin, I was doing shit. You know? I think in that moment because it was the last straw. It was just a total So it wasn’t like other times in a weird way. It was more like, okay. This one last time (laughs) I am going to hunker down and I am dealing with this fucking thing. This stops right now. You know? [00:36:37]

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And it just became a bit, what is the word? Like hyper-focused.

THERAPIST: All consumed.

CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. That had to get done and then that was it.

THERAPIST: The specifics of what was the last straw that I think is really important because I remember listening that day. Your language was so much about once again this is coming to me. Like the intrusiveness of your family into your life, into your psyche, into your being, into your cells in a way that doesn’t register as good.

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah.

THERAPIST: So I could imagine if that is the state inside of you that is getting triggered a little bit even coming in to see me could have a level of just too much, people get away.

CLIENT: Hm.

THERAPIST: A phone call can feel like an intrusion. Do you know what I mean?

CLIENT: The phone call can, yeah. Coming in here though, no. I don’t know why. Because I was just kind of looking forward. That is what I am saying. If there was no snow, it was like, great, at least I can go and I can just fucking vent to Claire.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And she is the one person who will understand what the fuck I am saying.

THERAPIST: So maybe not me then but maybe the snow is another kind of -

CLIENT: Oh yeah. Totally. [00:37:51]

THERAPIST: The snow plow. You can’t get out. You are stuck.

CLIENT: I mean, literally, I was claustrophobic. Yeah. Especially with all the snow we have been getting. It is like tomorrow again. So, yeah, it was just one thing after another. But, again, see the difference now is instead of saying, “It is happening to me.” Or, “Why is the world against me?” The world isn’t against me. These people are nuts and they don’t have the respect and thoughtfulness to be like -

I mean, now they do. Right? After I lost it. My Mom, she is like, “You know, I told them. I said, ‘You know, what, Brian is Where is everybody else’s children? Brian has put up with this for years now. He sees. We are downstairs. he sees the situation day in and day out. It is very stressful for him.’“ You know?

But again it is like, great, but (banging noise). I had to be kind of the bad guy. And now I have to be estranged from my uncle for a while. You know, use your brains, man. Use your brains. So that is a good feeling. To be like, no one is conspiring. The world isn’t. I am surrounded by nut jobs and I just need to extricate and then they can do whatever they want. (laughs) [00:39:01]

I don’t have this problem. I didn’t have this problem is London even when I was all by myself. So the problem is, though, then that triggers feelings about money. Do you know what I mean? It is Darien. You know? It feels so claustrophobic. I can’t. I literally can’t. I need to make ‘x’ amount of dollars to have a life in this city without roommates and without living with three people wherever the fuck, that some of my friends do.

Well that is not going to happen anytime I don’t see even a hint of that happening. And I don’t want some rinky dink 40,000 dollar a year job. That is not really I am still going to kind of be scrambling. Do you know what I mean? Like it triggers these And then that is not about the world against me. It is just the reality of where we are and economics.

So now I understand that that is not about me. It is not that I am a shitty person. (laughs) Join the club. I mean a lot of people here that is why they live with roommates. That is why. It is okay that I don’t want to live with roommates but that means that I have to make other decisions about what I am going to. You know? [00:40:19]

(long pause)

THERAPIST: So tomorrow.

CLIENT: Thanks, Claire. See you at noon.

THERAPIST: See you.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: Well, we will see. Right? (laughs)

CLIENT: Oh, shit, right. Okay. Well, I will definitely -

THERAPIST: I will most likely be here. If I am not here you will hear from me.

CLIENT: And I will call you.

THERAPIST: Let me know if it Yeah.

CLIENT: Thanks, Claire. See you later.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Bye.

END TRANSCRIPT