Client "AP", Session 178: March 06, 2014: Client discusses his impending move abroad and the feelings that are starting to creep in. Client is beginning to realize that he is actually leaving and is feeling a sense of sadness for everything he's leaving behind. trial
TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:
BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:
CLIENT: What’s up?
THERAPIST: Nothing.
CLIENT: [inaudible whispering] Chuck loved the letter. Well, I don’t know if love is the right word but...
THERAPIST: [inaudible]
CLIENT: He’s like…
THERAPIST: Said what it needed.
CLIENT: He’s like... I think... he’s like I’m not an expert but it seems perfect to me. He said e-mailing it is fine as long as maybe the e-mail just says we’re going to send an official hard copy. The only thing I didn’t know is if he meant I should e-mail it or… I don’t know if that matters but...
THERAPIST: Do you want me to just send a hard copy? It’ll be there in a day.
CLIENT: Yes, please. Thanks.
THERAPIST: Right? It’s not...
CLIENT: Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. And maybe I can just e-mail them and say hey, the letter’s on its way.
THERAPIST: To two different departments then? Should I put one to... in other words, send two letters you think.
CLIENT: That, I don’t know. I don’t know who this other guy... I mean it’s definitely got to go to that Cheryl Nixon woman, so maybe just send it to her I guess. Yeah. [00:01:10]
THERAPIST: I’m happy to send it to both of them.
CLIENT: I mean if you can, that’d be great. If you don’t mind. Thank you.
THERAPIST: Yeah, no, it’s easy enough.
CLIENT: Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, but... yeah, he was like I don’t see... this is absolutely exactly what I was getting at [inaudible] Going to the vet after here, have Cecelia looked at, see what’s going on.
THERAPIST: She’s okay.
CLIENT: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
THERAPIST: [inaudible]
CLIENT: In terms of what’s going on, what’s he going to say about...
THERAPIST: [inaudible]
CLIENT: I didn’t know that they have even special vets, that this is what they deal with. This... he’s like oh, well you have to see this vet because he does all the travel... he knows... they asked me what country I’m going to and this and that. So we’ll see what he says. [00:02:01]
THERAPIST: [inaudible] specialization.
CLIENT: Exactly, exactly. Meanwhile, so you know I published that post, like I said, that article. Got tons and tons of... it’s been very sweet, really. People are like it’s so amazing to be able to read something that articulates things that I think or struggle with, but... all this stuff. Then this one fucking... this girl Eva, who I’ve just had this weird annoying... ever since... this is why I’m glad I’m not a life coach; this is the reason. Ever since this broad became a life coach, these are the exchanges, okay. You’re getting a lot of inputs about your post on Facebook At the risk of being...
THERAPIST: This is Eva who you rented a space from?
CLIENT: No. No, no, no. That...
THERAPIST: [inaudible] life coach. [00:03:02]
CLIENT: Yeah. No, no, no, that Eva is really cool. This is a girl I dated briefly a long time ago and then, whatever, she became a life... she went to Phoenix, it’s a big life... she got all these certificates. And ever since then you cannot have a normal exchange with this woman because everything is like well, Claire, [ph] I don’t know. I mean are you really happy. You know what I mean? Everything is... so at the risk of being one among many, a place that has always been unappealing to me, while at the same time being a place of comfort I don’t know what any of that means let me share with you. Your writing is amazing, your choices courageous. My wish is that you’ll find all that you need and hope for in your move. Fine. As you know this is the part that I had to give her a little bit of a backhand as you know, wherever you go, there you are. [00:04:04] I hope it’s easier to be and love who you are where you’re headed. Most amazing wishes to you. I was like well... so I just said well, that’s the... one of the points I made in the essay, that wherever you go, there you are, right, I get that. And I was like it has nothing to do with me loving or knowing myself at all. But I was like... but regardless, thanks for the note. It’s... this is the kind of people... I know there are a lot of people in Assyria who are dipshits, but they’re not this, yet. They’re not there yet. They’re getting there, but they’re not that yet, this kind of sappy like that’s about you, it’s not about me. You know what I mean?
THERAPIST: [inaudible]
CLIENT: Fucking unbelievable. I really almost want to tell her you know what? Ever since I decided to be a life coach and got back in touch with you, each one of our exchanges has fortified my doubts about becoming a life coach. [00:05:02] This is why. It’s like all my therapist friends, all my... they... I don’t know what it is. I don’t know. I don’t know how you’re not. I mean, I don’t know, you don’t seem like you’re this way but I don’t know what you’re like in a bar or whatever. But it’s really fucking annoying. It’s really fucking annoying. Anyway...
THERAPIST: It’s... it feels inauthentic. It’s sort of never actually just being... having a real conversation.
CLIENT: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. Why can’t you just leave it at courageous; your writing is amazing.
THERAPIST: Good for you.
CLIENT: Yeah, like why...
THERAPIST: Best of luck.
CLIENT: Exactly. As you know, it says... if she’s... it’s a little... don’t get ahead of yourself. I’ve got five certificates in life coaching so I know better than you do. It’s like go fuck yourself.
THERAPIST: [inaudible]
CLIENT: Yeah. Anyway. So yeah. So overall I feel pretty good. I mean I’m really stressed about getting there with no money still, but there’s nothing I can do about that. [00:06:04] At this point, as long as I can just literally get there with even just enough to just get there. You know what I mean? If they charge me more at the airport or if they... those are the kinds of things they... and then figure it out I guess. Last night I met up with this chick Selena [ph]. Have I told you about this girl? Off and on I’ve been seeing this girl. She’s got... she used to be a fashion designer in San Diego, whatever, all this stuff. This whole time I thought... I mean I know that she’s very attracted to me, whatever, whatever, we’ve hung out. But there’s something also very reserved about her. In some ways she’s actually very Samantha-esque. [00:07:00] She’s very... she can trace her family back like daughters of the revolution and fucking England and very kind of like that whole thing. Last night I meet her for a drink and she starts crying. She’s like I’m really going to miss you and... so what the fuck is happening. It’s not that I didn’t know she liked me but I just... say what? It was almost kind of annoying a little bit. But yeah, it’s like sometimes you think you know kind of what someone’s... where someone’s coming from.
THERAPIST: Like it’s almost too much.
CLIENT: Well she went from being a pretty... she was very... she’s got that kind of blue blood kind of whatever thing about her so she’s not really emotive per se. You know what I mean? So I was just kind of like whoa, just...
THERAPIST: It’s all the same to me. [00:08:08]
CLIENT: I guess, yeah.
THERAPIST: You’re adding [inaudible]
CLIENT: Yeah, right. Right. I’m kind of scared to hang out with her again now. I don’t want to... it’s... I kind of can’t deal with it. You know what I mean? So I don’t know what she’s... you know what I mean?
THERAPIST: I wonder if it also sets off for you something about your relations to your mother. Is there kind of... was either your stoic father or your mother’s obtrusiveness and too much of her. Too much...
CLIENT: Yeah, that’s true, yeah. In the past, though, that does... that... yeah, you’re right. You’re right. I don’t handle women getting emotional very well. Yeah, you’re right.
THERAPIST: I think it’s a turnoff almost.
CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. It can be. Yeah. It’s true. [00:09:02]
THERAPIST: Well especially if also it’s [inaudible] is her being somewhat aloof and accessible.
CLIENT: But I also don’t like extremes. Like you can’t be one and then... just be it. Be more emotive and blah, blah, blah, and then I can generally kind of adjust. But...
THERAPIST: It’s the unpredictability.
CLIENT: Yeah, that’s only thing I don’t... yeah, that... because then I start worrying that holy shit this is like a Michelle type situation, like one minute like this, one minute like that, this week all kind of cold, next week can’t live without you. It’s...
THERAPIST: She’s also your mom.
CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, that’s true kind of, yeah.
THERAPIST: Loving and warm one minute [inaudible]
CLIENT: Yeah, you’re right. You’re right, yeah. More consistent the last number of years, but yes, I mean my formative years, that’s what it’s been, yeah. [00:10:00]
THERAPIST: I also wonder if the tears in general right now [inaudible]
CLIENT: Yeah, I mean I’m leaving. I mean I get that I’m leaving. It’s already kind of a big thing. I don’t want to... which I’m always like that, by the way. I’m not a big... I don’t like big goodbyes and this and that, which, I don’t know, for me, I think that’s healthy for me. You know what I mean? I don’t like that kind of melodrama. Yes, it is a big deal and I get it. It’s a big fucking deal, but just... it doesn’t do anything for me to sit there in a bar and let it kind of overtake me. Do you know what I mean? I think all of these things have their healthy parts. Do you know what I mean? Sometimes... if I go to an Assyrian monastery and I feel like having a cry, of course I’ll have a cry. But then am I going to talk about that monastery at the bar and get super emotional and break down at the bar? [00:11:06] I hope not. That... to me that’s... you know what I mean? That’s maybe not so… there are people there and they’re having drinks and they might want to have a very serious discussion about it, very heartfelt, but I don’t know.
THERAPIST: So you’re saying you don’t want me to start a countdown?
CLIENT: Yeah, don’t... when I come in every day like a... yeah. A countdown, that’d be hilarious. A countdown where every day Claire’s face gets a little sadder.
THERAPIST: It does somehow feel like a warning to me.
CLIENT: What.
THERAPIST: No tears.
CLIENT: Yeah, you’re not good very good at... you’re not allowed. You’re not allowed. Plus, see, again, that’s the thing. This isn’t like going to London. It’s just not. You know what I mean? It’s just not. It’s very different. It’s like...
THERAPIST: Yeah, I think that’s one of the things that made me... I’m... I would see differently than the way you’re constructing it. [00:12:09] It’s as though the more tears the more permanent it is.
CLIENT: No, I don’t mean it that way. I just mean maybe I don’t feel that emotional about it, honestly. I think I don’t, kind of. I just feel like yes, I’m... for example [inaudible] my Assyrian friends, who I love so much, even my mom, my grandmother, actually more than my mom, right. I mean someone who really is... God knows how many months or whatever she has left. I somehow feel... I don’t not feel sad or anything like that, or not emotional, I just... I don’t know how to explain. I mean I feel like I’ve somehow reconciled everything. You know what I mean? I’m just like...
THERAPIST: Well maybe another way of putting it is it’s sort of like... I think about the transition of people going off to college for the first time. [00:13:09] Often, if they’re... especially if they’re moving out of the home. It’s certainly sad, you’re going to miss your family, but it’s not really globally a sad event. It’s a really exciting forward event. If it’s... you’re ready for it and it’s... that’s the next step in development, it’s a really good thing that is happening. So sadness isn’t sort of what’s running the show.
CLIENT: Right, right. Or not that level of sadness, where there’s crying and this and that. It’s more like I’m really going to miss you but man...
THERAPIST: It’s really [inaudible]
CLIENT: Yeah, it’s a new adventure. And who the fuck knows, maybe I’ll be back in the summer to visit, you know what I mean? Who knows what... I mean it’s not... it’s really not that big of a... it is a big deal to me but overall, in terms of when I’m going to see my friends again or whatever, I mean come on, it’s not that big of a deal. Yeah. [00:14:09] And I think sometimes it is important to be a little self-protective. Do you know what I mean? I just need to get there. I don’t want to... I feel pretty good. I’m trying to take things a day at a time. So I don’t want to really wallow in that. Or not wallow, I don’t want to open that door of just wow, I really might not see my grandmother. Maybe I’ll deal with that when I get there. You know what I mean? But I don’t... that’s not going to help me right now.
THERAPIST: What are you worried about, that if you actually let in the feelings about potentially not seeing your grandmother or the feelings about this changing?
CLIENT: Well no, I mean personally I can let it in, but I can’t sit with someone and have a cry about it.
THERAPIST: How come?
CLIENT: That doesn’t feel helpful to me. [00:15:01] Well honestly because I don’t feel like I... I don’t feel compelled. I don’t feel teary. You know what I mean? But also because it’s just not helpful, because it does make it seem more kind of melancholy than it really is. It’s just not.
THERAPIST: [inaudible] it doesn’t?
CLIENT: What’s that?
THERAPIST: Just because you are full of feeling and a day with your grandmother or a session here, that makes it more like depressing?
CLIENT: I guess. Yeah, I don’t know. Maybe I’m just so sick of the melodrama in the family that I just... I so love my friends. They’re so... like one of them goes to Cairo for three months, one of them goes… it’s just like hug and awesome. When you get back let me know if you need a ride from the airport. Just... that’s... something about that just seems so much healthier to me.
THERAPIST: Well especially when the alternative is melodrama.
CLIENT: Yeah.
THERAPIST: I think that’s what... it’s sort of like anything emotional. [00:16:08]
CLIENT: Well because I just feel like you don’t need... we don’t need to spell things. I get it. You know what I mean? Of course I’m going to terribly miss here and my friends, but it’s like those are givens. I don’t need to put it on display. Do you know what I mean? Unless I genuinely feel like crying, then I will. You can’t control that anyway, right, if you’re going to get choked up you will. So...
THERAPIST: You don’t need to do it as a performance or...
CLIENT: That’s what I mean. That’s what I’m trying to say. I’m not feeling that level of... I’ve even tried. I’ll be like wow, I’m leaving this apartment. It just feels more like wow, holy shit, I’m leaving this apartment. And one day I’ll come back and this apartment will be here and I’ll kick out the tenant and I’ll move right back up here. I mean what... yeah, I just...
THERAPIST: Or not. [00:17:06]
CLIENT: Exactly. Or I’ll come back and I’ll get a nice fucking apartment somewhere where I don’t have to be right next to my family and or whatever. You know what I mean? Maybe I’ll move to Maine. Maybe I’ll move to fucking San Diego or Halifax. Who the fuck knows. But yeah, I’m not... I’m just not... it’s just not the same. When I went to London I did get teary eyed by the way. And when I saw my friends the last night, whatever, I felt... suddenly I felt overcome. But this time I’m not... just not feeling it. Maybe I will a little bit but...
THERAPIST: [inaudible]
CLIENT: I’m sorry?
THERAPIST: [inaudible]
CLIENT: Yeah, exactly.
THERAPIST: [inaudible] sorry.
CLIENT: No, I do too. So I don’t know. [00:18:10] Maybe it’s also that... some of my Assyrian friends will come to Assyria. You know what I mean? It’s different. London really was like who the fuck’s going to... I mean someone really has to go out of their way to visit you there. Assyria’s just... my mom wants to come now. All my friends are like holy shit, now we have... now Brian’s going to be there. I’ve got to go to Assyria. So that... even that feels a little different. And knowing people once I get there feels very different. I don’t know. I just... I’m not...
THERAPIST: It’s more continuous.
CLIENT: Yeah, something... yeah, something just feels like I’m... I mean I know I’m kind of like... it’s not the same but I’m like honestly it’s a ten hour drive. [00:19:02] I mean I can drive those ten hours back. It’s not... it is a big deal and it’s not. So I mean it’s the same as what I wrote about the country, right. Yeah, it’s Assyria, but it’s also just a place. I mean I... those two things can inhabit you equally. You can be overcome by whatever and then be really fucking annoyed at the bad service at the café or whatever it is.
THERAPIST: You don’t want to [inaudible] like have a last band practice for example.
CLIENT: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Because it’s not a bridge that somehow is being burned down or... we’ll be in touch, we’ll swap files, we’ll whatever. It’s not...
THERAPIST: And maybe it feels that way here, too.
CLIENT: Oh, totally. Well I mean here it feels that way the most because this is the most continuous, long term, right. So I mean to me it’s just like you pick it up where you left off. [00:21:04] It’s not
THERAPIST: There’s a way, though, that you’re talking about it, Brian, is I get how much it feels like this is healthier than getting pulled into the extremes, and I think... I agree with you. [00:24:11] But there’s something that sounds like you’re afraid that could happen. So almost like no tears so that that doesn’t... I don’t risk getting pulled into it.
CLIENT: Right, even though I know I won’t.
THERAPIST: Right, that’s different than just knowing you won’t. This is actually what your experience is right now.
CLIENT: Right, right.
THERAPIST: There’s some anxiety that that could happen.
CLIENT: But the thing is... but yeah, but let’s... I’ve been saying, right, for a while that’s just going to be how it is right now. I’m just hyper-vigilant. I know that I won’t... I keep... obviously there’s evidence every single day that things aren’t triggering this or that, but right now I just... it kind of feels good to be like I’m just going to be hyper-vigilant about this one fucking thing.
THERAPIST: Are you afraid you wouldn’t go, for example, if you walk out that fantasy. I don’t mean literally but what’s the fear of if you actually got sucked into the tears, what would happen? [00:25:08]
CLIENT: Well there...
THERAPIST: What would that look like?
CLIENT: Well there isn’t a fear because I can’t imagine getting sucked into that.
THERAPIST: And I know you can’t, in reality, now about who you are, but what... the fear at least.
CLIENT: Well I don’t know, that I just don’t want to be... I’m going to... yeah, would I not want to leave? I don’t know. Yeah, it might make me doubt the logistics. Not the going. Like shit I can stay two more months maybe and just get there right when I’m about to start working or something like that. Or yeah, that I don’t want to start feeling depressed and more nervous and anxious about leaving my mom here and not seeing my grandmother. I don’t want to go there because I’ve been dealing with that my whole life. So I just feel very self-protective. [00:26:01] I don’t want to think about those things right now. And I feel like I have a right to not think about them. Whether I... whether they’re going to trigger something or not. You know what I mean? I’m just...
THERAPIST: And I think as a... I persist in bringing it up, though, still because I think you were even more truly protected from it not going there. To the degree that we can talk about that in advance, that those are the fears. In other words, even what you just articulated was... that’s a little bit news to me, just thinking... it’s not that it’s hard to imagine, but the kinds of things... what I would worry about is the things you’re guarding against right now is what happens three weeks into being Assyria. Do those start to come in, like oh shit, I left my mother, I’ll never see my grandmother again.
CLIENT: But see, that’s what I’m saying. That’s why I said I’ll deal with that when I’m there. Of course that’s going to happen.
THERAPIST: But I think if you deal with it now you’re so much better off going there.
CLIENT: Right, but see... but that’s what I’m trying to say. I have nothing to give about it right now because I don’t really feel sad. [00:27:05] I don’t... even if I stop and really think, like I said, my mom, my grandmother, somehow I can’t...
THERAPIST: You’re not feeling it.
CLIENT: Yeah, I’m not feeling it. So when I get there I have no doubt that I might... if I get there and I find out God forbid about my grandmother or whatever, that’s really going to suck. It’s as if I’m going into it knowing that fully. I fully get that. And I’ve kind of made peace with it. I mean I’m like well my grandmother kind of doesn’t know me now anyway. She knows me in the moment. And the minute I leave it’s as if I wasn’t there. And so I’ve just made peace with that. And with my mom it’s a little bit of a lesser degree of the same thing. Well I mean I’m in my 40s now. I can’t... Jesus Christ, I mean I... and my mom is old. So she’s healthy, all is well, so I don’t see why that shouldn’t continue. So I mean I can’t... that can’t be something that becomes some heavy thing for me. [00:28:11]
THERAPIST: [inaudible] left home.
CLIENT: I’m sorry?
THERAPIST: A long time ago.
CLIENT: It would’ve what?
THERAPIST: Been good for you. In other words, I [inaudible]
CLIENT: Right. Well, and I kept trying, yeah. I kept trying.
THERAPIST: I start to wonder, Brian, if there’s something that’s kept you bound to her unconsciously because of losing your father.
CLIENT: Oh yeah, sure.
THERAPIST: Having to be around to protect her or...
CLIENT: Oh yeah, well I mean there is something, again it doesn’t make me emotional right now, but yeah, of course, if I lose my mom that’s fucked up. It’s me. I mean there is no immediate nuclear family. That’s weird. That’s really weird. But I’m at a place now where I’m like... well, but see, again, I’m making it kind of about me and my... yeah, of course it’s fucking terrible. [00:29:03] That is terrible and I will feel it and I’ll be sobbing and... but I look around me and lots of people that get into their 40s don’t have their parents. I mean that’s just... it just happens. So that...
THERAPIST: And would not consider not moving to then be stuck in their development in order to...
CLIENT: Right, so that’s what I’m saying. So it just feels good right now to be like no, I’m not going to... I know it won’t suck me into anything but right now it just feels good to go. I like just whatever this is. When I get to Assyria, I mean I think the way I’m thinking about it is it’s already going to be emotional, right, so if... I mean I don’t even know if it’s going to happen, but if I get there and I’m like oh, my mom, my grandmother, it’s fine. I’ll go to a monastery and cry about... I’ll just... I’ll get that... all that shit out of the way. Because in a way it’s all connected. It’s not London, it’s Assyria, right. So it’s their stories, their whole fucking lives, the shit they’ve been through, they’re all encapsulated in these God damn ruins. So... or it’s because I’m ready. [00:30:09] Just writing that one essay, I think, even... like I just said what had to be said and that’s... it’s not rattling around inside me. It’s being processed. So I feel melancholy a little, I mean, even though I actually don’t but...
THERAPIST: You don’t seem melancholy to me.
CLIENT: No, I’m not.
THERAPIST: It’s different than feeling sad for a second or I’m going to miss somebody.
CLIENT: That’s what I was going to say. At moments I feel sad and whatever but yeah I just... just not... it just changes when you’re able to really step outside yourself, really do it, not just kind of say you’re doing it. And then live by that. You know what I mean? Because today I’m like wait a minute, I have all these friends who... they do all kinds of shit. My friends, the Leo’s Place guys, they just lost their mom, okay. Now both their parents are dead. Their oldest brother’s the filmmaker. That’s guy’s been away forever. [00:31:07] Forever. So he never really... and they’re all... they’re a family. It’s not like he was oh, go fuck yourselves. But the guy just had to do what he had to do. And so I’m sure there’s sadness, there’s this, there’s that, but I mean... and I haven’t been able to do that because...
THERAPIST: There’s so much excitement if that’s... if this is part of becoming who you are.
CLIENT: That’s what I’m saying. That’s what I’m saying.
THERAPIST: I mean again, Brian, I think it’s like... I keep saying about the transition from high school to college, when things are going ordinarily and healthily, that it is so sad to say goodbye to your family, to say... your friends and moving off to college. It’s... things are changing. It’s not high school anymore. You will never be with that group in exactly the same way ever again even though you might keep in touch. It’s sad. And you absolutely would not have it any other way because you’re so ready for the next step. [00:32:01] The excitement about the forward momentum is running the show. And that sounds like this is just part of what makes this sound so healthy for you, is it... that’s what this feels like.
CLIENT: Yeah, that’s right.
THERAPIST: I think there will be sadness, moments, even if it’s just the night before.
CLIENT: Of course. No, of course.
THERAPIST: And it’s not the same as melancholy or depression. It just... I don’t think it’s going to be that.
CLIENT: No, no, it’s not. I mean even when I... I’m in the apartment. Well, I guess I really have to slowly start. I mean I don’t really have anything in there so I’m leaving it to the week of or whatever, two weeks, whatever, next week, whatever. But I’m like wow, I’m going to have to empty all these drawers and whatever. It’s like a pang, you know what I mean? But then I’m like yeah, I’ve got to empty these drawers. So in some ways it’s... honestly, it’s a relief in some ways. It’s been a shitty nine months so I’m just ready for a change. [00:33:08] I mean shitty employment wise and not shitty in a lot of other ways. But between the unemployment and coming to terms with working and here and coming to terms with the family stuff, those two things are enough to make it like all right, look, it’s time to start a new chapter and all this good stuff will be here and... but it’s... I’m more than ready to be there.
THERAPIST: [inaudible] you’ve been working tremendously hard coming into real time, reality, really who you are, that you’re not someone who [inaudible] your mother [inaudible] And all of those things are part of what is creating this next step, is you in real time being yourself and finding what is a pathway that’s actually [inaudible] for you. [00:34:33] In other words. Brian, I’m trying to say that it’s not just this year’s been so hard I have to get the hell out of Dodge...
CLIENT: Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it’s not an escape.
THERAPIST: This is... it actually is you growing up in a way.
CLIENT: Yeah, yeah. No, well it’s when I say I am getting the hell out of Dodge it’s not like I’m running away. It’s like I’ve sat down, I’ve thought this out, processed it, I’m going to write a fucking essay about it and tell you why I’m going. And also tell you why I know that yeah, I get it that where I’m going isn’t an answer. [00:35:03] It’s not some kind of panacea or whatever. It’s a fucking place. But it is a different possibility. That’s all.
THERAPIST: Do you know what it’s called?
CLIENT: I don’t remember. I don’t remember. It’s on creativity and writing or something like that. But basically he says all loneliness and all... loneliness and something else, ahh fuck, I don’t remember it. [00:36:10] But he says these two things, all they are, are just fear, a fear of death, right, a fear of... and I’ve said this here before, a lot, right. All... that’s what all... that’s why it’s been hard to let go of my... on some level. And he’s like... and the way he ties that in is to... so I mean it’s much more articulate than I can say it now, but just the idea that that’s the paradox of art and writing, is that you’re allowing the reader to step into this other consciousness while also knowing that we’re all going to die alone and miserably. But you’re willing... but the... so he’s like... so the artist, in a way, has to allow themselves to die in the process of making that art, if they want to make good art. [00:37:07] So that that other person can kind of enter that world and forget for a while that this is going to enrich me or I’m being whatever while also knowing that I’m really scared of being alone and whatever. So really that’s... I think that’s a lot of what’s happening here is that... so his whole point, basically, is you’ve just got to... it’s only when you face it that it’s possible to go get beyond it. And I think that’s what this is. You know what I mean? I don’t know if I’m quite there yet but it’s a big, big... yeah. It’s very different than it was a year ago or whatever. He’s...
THERAPIST: Well more of the feelings around the separation and loss and embracing alone can come up when you’re actually there. [00:38:10]
CLIENT: Yeah, of course.
THERAPIST: [inaudible] say I don’t know if I’m there yet.
CLIENT: Yeah, of course. And that’s going to happen anyway because I... every single person has said that. They’re like then you’re going to hit this other point, this... where you’re like... you feel alone, you feel isolated, it starts hitting you that you’re in a little landlocked country in the middle of fucking nowhere. They’re like stuff like that will start bothering you. I’m hoping that creativity, the work I’ll be doing, will just help me process that. Yeah. And also, see, it’s not... I mean I have no way of knowing until I’m there but there... just something feels different about the... when you think like well yeah, but yes, I will feel those things but to feel those things that drastically, it makes it sound like you’re in some God damn prison. [00:39:21] I’m an American with an American passport. I will get on the plane and come back. I mean it’s hard for me to... I get that that will happen, there’s no question that’s going to happen, but I just don’t...
THERAPIST: Well [inaudible] here, too, Brian. That’s somewhat of a fantasy, also, that you’ll then be deadlocked there in loneliness but not here. You’ve felt that here too.
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: Do you know what I mean? In other words it’s... the loneliness is inside you
CLIENT: Oh yeah, yeah. No, that part I get. But just this idea that... yes, I mean I get that. This is home. So if I’m lonely here it’s not like I can be like well that’s fine. I can get a ticket and go... no, this is home so you’ve got to work that out somehow. [00:40:09] But the idea that Philip [ph] started feeling isolated in Assyria, I get that I will feel that way. No doubt. I’m sure these fucking Assyrians, a lot of them are going to annoy me and all that. I get it. But I also just... I’m like well, but that’s the whole point though. I went there... I’ve constructed this whole fucking thing, right? I’m not... I’ve taken a full time job, I’m making a permanent move to Assyria, I’m going to teach for a summer and a semester. If it goes great, great. If it doesn’t, that shit’s going on my CD and I’m coming back. So it’s hard for me to be like I’m going to have a whole month or I’m not going to have a ton... in a way I don’t have time to feel that because in my mind I’m already counting down to coming back in a way. Do you know what I mean? So that’s what’s... it’s not like grad school, like some indefinite PhD, whatever. I’m there on a contract. And they would love to have me stay and I would love to stay. [00:41:09] But I’ve got to see what it’s like.
THERAPIST: And if you feel really homesick you can go home.
CLIENT: Exactly. Or I will also know that okay, I’m homesick but no, no, no, I want to be here.
THERAPIST: Exactly. That will be a choice.
CLIENT: Right.
THERAPIST: See you tomorrow.
CLIENT: Thanks Claire, see you tomorrow.
THERAPIST: This is [inaudible]
CLIENT: Oh, okay.
THERAPIST: It didn’t include the [inaudible] yesterday.
CLIENT: Okay, thank you. See you.
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