TRANSCRIPT OF AUDIO FILE:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT:

THERAPIST: Yeah, I'm going to make a copy of these over the weekend and leave them by the door.

CLIENT: Okay.

THERAPIST: We had nothing to do with it. The building management just had somebody replace all the doors in the building and gave us keys. It was to replace the little lock.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: That's it.

CLIENT: Or whatever it is. Yeah.

THERAPIST: Yeah. And they're like here, now there are keys. Okay, so. Sorry.

CLIENT: I just guess I want to....

THERAPIST: Yeah, I've reached the total number pattern.

CLIENT: Yeah. The condo at my psychiatrist's office is almost the same.

THERAPIST: Oh, really?

CLIENT: Yeah. It just sort of struck me.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Actually, I almost forgot I had therapy today. So, I, just like my legs really hurt all last night. I mean, like, it was uncomfortable when I was here and it just sort of got just feeling like lessened which was very frustrating. So, you know, I think okay, I'll try valium and it didn't do anything. Well, valium and ibuprofen. I was like there is no change. So, then I'm like okay, well, I'll try like a sticky heat pad. No change. I was like, okay. You know, like, I'll try like Icy Hot or whatever. [00:01:45]

So, really, Ashby ended up falling asleep really early and just being out like a light while I was just kind of like well, I was sort of debating like I could sit in the living room and be uncomfortable. I could lie on my bed and be uncomfortable. And I just couldn't really sleep. Like, I slept for a couple hours. Woke up. Was uncomfortable for a couple hours. I think it was finally like the 3:00am valium that helped. So, the pressure was just really uncomfortable, but I was also feeling... I'm just still feeling really like nervous and anxious about work stuff. Like, still not getting many calls back which is really frustrating. [00:03:00]

Since Ashby does some human resources stuff at her job, I was like can you go over this format for me? I was like maybe it will make sense to you. I was also debating calling another friend of mine who works in HR and be like what do I do? Let me go. But, Monica was sick and I was too. But, yeah. It's just kind of tense and just really tense and miserable. You know? Like, tell me what you think.

THERAPIST: It seems that the anxiety and stress contributed?

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: To the physical.

CLIENT: I think like, I think at least in part because well, unless because I always tighten my muscles and laugh it off when I get stressed.

THERAPIST: Yeah. I remember you saying it. (inaudible at 00:04:07)

CLIENT: No. It's just one of those thing where it's like every time see a massage therapist they're like you carry a lot of tension in your neck and shoulders. Also, your back's really tight. Like, I don't always think of it until someone's like poke.

THERAPIST: Right. [00:04:30]

CLIENT: Yeah. And also possibly that way it can be. You know, like yesterday I didn't really feel like doing much today which is weird for me.

THERAPIST: Like I'm also wondering if like almost forgetting about therapy was like maybe I don't want to go back there and talk about all that stuff anymore.

CLIENT: So, a little bit. Like, I was on the sofa and kind of felt sick.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Then I'm just like wait, what day is it? Oh my god. I have to go to therapy and I'm in my pajamas and it's 3:30. So, you know, I put on my clothes. And I kind of don't want to talk about feelings. I just want to, I don't want to do anything. I want to lay on the sofa. And then Monica told me feelings were awesome and I left. The other day she said that she liked talking about feelings and I'm like no you don't, but whatever. [00:05:30]

Yeah. I just, I didn't want any of it to be happening or I want it to have happened. There's also like, so, there are various like grown up things that I hate doing. I really hate dealing with those. If I'm getting depressed I just won't do them which is a problem. And, I basically I cut my credit cards and do on line pay for the community toll fees or whatever. [00:06:30]

But, and I hate, hate, hate doing my taxes. It makes me super anxious and upset. And what makes me more anxious is people telling me it's really easy and I should just fill out the form. And I want to say fuck you. I don't want like and I remember when I was dating Pete a while ago. One time I was like, I asked my mom if I should do my taxes for a couple years after college and then she's like do your taxes. And I was like I want you to do my taxes for me because your my boyfriend and I don't want to do this. We had like a fight of him saying he'd do it with me and I was getting really frustrated and upset and like the numbers weren't adding up. And it was just so frustrating. [00:07:30]

So, like, because I kind of have the fantasy of someone, not just, but I just want like someone. Like, I kind of want someone who is my boyfriend or girlfriend or whatever to just make the calls for me and then you can fill out the paperwork and then it'll be done. You know. I don't know.

THERAPIST: It's nice to be taken care of.

CLIENT: It is very nice to be taken care of. And it's not something I get a lot of in life right now. Which, you know, I don't know. Like, I mean sometimes he takes care of things. Like where it really I'm like that would probably be like someone I'm dating would do that. Like, I'm feeling cranky. You brought me like hot tea in bed. But, also, sometimes I'm just like I want to be like grumpy and sulky and watch bad television and get snuggles. Which I have some friends who would, but it's a little awkward. Like, I feel a little awkward about it. I mean I hate asking for anything, so.

THERAPIST: Right. [00:09:40]

CLIENT: The idea of asking for it. And, like, I most of the times do taking care of things for Ashby. Not really thinking about it. Just more like well, I don't know, like you're sick, let me get you a cup of tea or like we're both home on the weekend and I'm making coffee, I'll make you coffee or whatever. And she's like I guess that's the kind of person how I tend to do things and she does not tend do it that way. Which, I'm not like, I guess I'm not upset. Like, I don't feel like she's, well, some things I think she's pretty much manipulative, but in this case of like, I don't know, let me bring you a cup of hot tea or let me like whatever. [00:11:00]

Like, those kinds of little things. Like, she has to ask and she's always surprised, kind of surprised when I do it. And, she doesn't do the same. I mean like very occasionally. But, I don't know like it isn't, I guess it's just what I ask for or whined about because of a problem. Also, I'm, so I'm someone who and I had this discussion with a coworker of mine, who like if I'm getting up to get a glass of water or like oh, do you want a glass of water and if someone else gets up, I'm like, oh, could you get me a glass of water?

THERAPIST: Right. [00:12:00]

CLIENT: And some people are like what the fuck are you talking about? Like, some people are just very weird. Like, why would you do that? Why are you asking that? And both of us are like I don't know. I'm already up, you're up.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Like, I don't know. I mean she'll do it usually, but she always says you have to ask. And so the other thing that is stressing me is packing. One of my friends very kindly, she just brought me like two clothes of boxes. Like I had all that.

THERAPIST: It's too bad you don't have more people like, they seem to like taking care of you more so. [00:13:20]

CLIENT: Yeah. I mean I think...

THERAPIST: I imagine you might feel a lot less stressed.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Anxiety that you had that.

CLIENT: Yeah. One part of when I used to live very close to my whole family we got a lot of just like talking about it.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: It was just lovely. And Ashley and his family popped in like super blind in a lot of ways. But, yeah, it would be nice if someone would sort of, I don't know. Like make, I guess I always think of this like I would like to hang out with you, Jane Doe. Can you make it go? Like can you figure out where we're going? [00:14:30]

And I don't like making group social plans. It makes me super anxious. Because (inaudible at 00:14:45) which, you know. And sometimes it's just kind like I don't care. I don't like you like doing the part where I figure out like we should go here because, you know, it's like I mean I feel like I have done that a lot with friends. With like various allergies. You know, calling ahead or checking in, etc. And I was like well, I like don't even know what I want them to make or impress upon them. [00:15:30]

I'm kind of like how about we, how about you put as much thought in to where we're going to eat as I did for you. Like, on Friday, my appointments were out. Which obviously for work. I was super worried. I was worried that no one would come. Because it was a thing where like I e-mailed like a dozen people much more than that and was like hey, let's all go to this place and we could hang out between like 8:30 and 11:00 or whenever you get tired. I said like, you know, it's just drop in. Don't worry about it. Bring your friend. Bring a roommate. I don't care. And, so, one of my friends had just done a similar organization and we were talking about how we're both like what if no one shows up? What if even worse? One person shows up and then it's super awkward. [00:16:40]

And all of the things that we think about when doing this. And, so, also part of thinking where I picked was they have a good menu. They have a vegetarian food. They can probably do vegan food. They, you know,

THERAPIST: Pretty much.

CLIENT: Yeah. I mean, like that they have, that they can give you. Basically like they can give you gluten free food. They totally have nice vegetarian food. I'm sure you could sort out vegan. We're mostly having just appetizers. Which I mentioned. And I was thinking, and so part of me was thinking and I said kind of, I don't know, it was like I just do that. Like, I do that a lot making a plan something with more than like six people. I mean I know a lot of my friends like that eat vegetarian would totally like it. [00:17:50]

And I always feel awful when we get there and like on the phone they said oh, yeah but the restaurant, like there's some kind of hitch. Where someone's like I forgot to mention that I'm now doing the stupid paleo diet. Which one of my friends is doing and everybody is just like, but I don't know. Like, I don't know what the thing is I want people to do that's similar, but I guess I want...

THERAPIST: In my heart, I imagine you want somebody else to do the planning and bring the people together and you know if you don't have dietary restrictions that they have to keep. Just kind of take the initiative and take the responsibility off your shoulder.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And plan things that you can enjoy. [00:18:50]

CLIENT: You know, one of the, one of the things that was sometimes good and others strictly funny was that it's like sometimes, I just really can't, like, I don't know. Like, I could say I don't know what I want to do for dinner. Can you like pick? And she was like totally fine with that. I just wanted her say like do you just want me to make it happen? Yes. I'm like let's just, you know, go. I do just, you know, I don't like that. I think I manage, I do think that I somehow successfully fake people out in to thinking that this doesn't stress me out which I'm most surprised by. I feel like oh, my god I'm so like obviously losing my mind over this. But I'm also like well, like at least I don't come off like a basket case. [00:20:00]

THERAPIST: Tell me why it was hard for you to think of what you wanted a minute ago.

CLIENT: I don't know. Like, I was just kind of focused on thinking about like in the case of like going out somewhere. Like, people always very clear like restriction of, you know.

THERAPIST: I guess I feel that you don't have a parallel restriction to.

CLIENT: Right. It's more like they have the, yeah, they have a need that they need have it be x. You know? Like, I can't take my friend Megan out to...

THERAPIST: Pizza.

CLIENT: Yes.

THERAPIST: Or pasta land or whatever.

CLIENT: But, in terms of like what do I want? Like, I don't know.

THERAPIST: It's hard. [00:21:20]

CLIENT: I guess what I'm sort of worried about is whether...

THERAPIST: You tend to downplay or not so much think in terms of your own needs or wishes.

CLIENT: Yes. Which, and, so, it's just one of... So, one other thing that has been difficult relating to as far as people have asked me more than once can we share you room? Like, can we be roommates? And we had, we were like one person, one bed is awesome. And so, the reason and I was like I want to like oh, I want to help you out, but no, I really don't. Like, I know. Yeah.

THERAPIST: (inaudible at 00:22:30)

CLIENT: And it can get super frustrating when I don't know I think it was like two years ago, I think. Molly and I were like, okay we're going to have like dinner out. Maximum six people, maybe eight. And it somehow turned in to like 14. And we were both like, you know, like, we're both too nice to just be like no, go away. We had decided and really it wasn't what I wanted. Like, I wanted to all be here at this table. Like, and I didn't want to be jostled and sort of crowded and, you know. [00:23:40]

THERAPIST: Do you feel like in a way I could carry you?

CLIENT: It's, it's hard for me to think of it that way. I don't know. Like, what do you think of it? I feel in a lot of ways. I mean one thing I do think depends if I feel like I'm repeating myself on something or I've said something to the extent where I'm like I don't want to talk about it anymore. Except that's all you think about? And I'm like, well, that's your job and that makes it a lot easier to, it's just very much a problem like I feel like I don't want to ask my friends to deal with this again, so yes. But, I think there's like some things that I find really stressful. I tend to think of it more transactionally, because it makes it easier.

THERAPIST: Is that what you were just referring to or no? [00:25:10]

CLIENT: Yeah. Like, like, intense emotional stuff. I have a really hard time asking of my friends to listen to that or be supportive in that and like I just hang on to a ton of guilt about that. That I don't have guilt about cure. At least in part because I could think to myself well, like, that's what you do. That's part of your job, so it's not like asking a favor or I mean like in some way I'm like not asking my friends to meet my friends. It's like I'm not putting demands on them.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: So, that's easier. But it would be easier if we didn't offer demands to them. [00:26:20]

THERAPIST: Yeah and I can see how it sounds like it can take a bit of work sometimes to manage the guilt here. Like, kind of remind yourself somewhat that this is part of my job.

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: And part of why you're here.

CLIENT: Yeah. I guess I'm talking to my friends about what the whole things that often like it will take me a while to get around to the thing that I want to talk to them about. So, like, when I'm talking about Christmas, and ask is Zoe coming out for a walk. Like, it took me like half of that walk, at least, to kind of get myself to ask what I really wanted to talk about it. Which, you know, I'd rather talk. Not that mad that we would have gone much further with it, but I was frustrated with myself that I couldn't like, just get, like, just ask her or talk to her about it. [00:28:00]

THERAPIST: I guess I kind of sound like for I'm asking for some sort of evaluation or feedback, but that was not what I'm intending to do. But, I am wondering if you feel like some things here like the need not to talk about it is met?

CLIENT: Can you rephrase that?

THERAPIST: You said that, that not talking is easier to bring up things that are stressing you out or are feeling so tense here because of the context. And, I sort of can't speak to whether we're talking about them in the way that you want to be or whether you feel satisfied about having brought it up and talked about it, whatever it is. And like, this, you know, you probably do, but the reason I'm asking is because so much of what we're talking about today is like you're being taken care of and having other people need you have and I guess it strikes me that you kind of stop short of saying that one way or the other while you're here. Like, well, easier to bring it up here. But, don't go so far as to say yeah, sometimes it helps and sometimes it doesn't. Or and, you know, like you pretty much you listen and that's good or you never pay any attention and that's horrible. Whatever it is. You know what I'm saying? [00:29:30]

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: I think it's probably an uncomfortable thing for you to talk about and that's probably why I'm asking and I'm sorry, but I think that would be helpful.

CLIENT: I think that, I do think my ability to talk about things here is met as much as I can. Does that make sense? That there's something there that I just find really hard to talk about at all or to think about or to or it just takes me a while to kind of get over and actually want to talk about it.

THERAPIST: What do you have in mind? I'm not going to ask you much about them today. I'm just wondering because it's not always easy for me to tell kind of where you're at with what like is stressful and not stressful. Excuse me. [00:30:45]

CLIENT: Sometimes, sometimes it's things around race. Sometimes it's things around friendness and sometimes things around kink. And part of that I think is like there are some things where I feel like I would like, I would I feel like if I talked about it in the way I think about it, like there's this whole like context background that you wouldn't necessarily have. And not like for everything. For some things. [00:31:50]

THERAPIST: I guess what I'm thinking of is the thing about your reaction to getting in to college. Deciding with, I don't know her name. It's not Zoe, but and how when you mentioned it to Ashby she was like kind of cocked the whole story, not just that incident .

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Sort of automatically in a way that I didn't.

CLIENT: Yeah. And, so, there's also like, I don't know like how to describe it. Some of the, the like, it's one of those things where I'm like you know what, I think I fought for better or for worse and probably one step away from like if I were to think of like some ludicrously like human consensual cannibalism and one step away from someone who does that.

THERAPIST: You feel like what you're doing...

CLIENT: No, no, no.

THERAPIST: Okay. [00:33:00]

CLIENT: So, I don't do anything close to that because that grosses me out. Like, in a bazillion ways, but it's hard sometimes when I think and I'm like well, I like, I listen to where I am in like the beating of the universe.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: Right. And I have a lot of friends who are doing a lot of things.

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: And, then there's the like two steps next door. Where some things like that where I'm just like that is horrifying and like a friend of a friend has like seen that.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And, it's it's just kind of hard to... I don't know. Like, I find it hard and this is basically anyone who is not kinky, you know, and like it kind of annoying lead to an involvement in the kink subculture of blah, blah, blah. It's just got a lot of stuff going on that when you're involved, you're like yeah, that's just happening. And like what's normal? What's not normal? What's coming or uncoming? I guess it's really hard to sort of talk about. [00:35:00]

THERAPIST: And, with like the race stuff, my impression is less that you're concerned about not being kind of judgmental and more that it takes work and more risk to explain it, things?

CLIENT: Yeah. Like, it's, it's I find it difficult to talk about with like other people of color where there's probably less of a risk. And, so, with anyone who's white there's the moment of like you don't, the way you found out if that was safe is the that way.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah. There must be a lot of involved with that.

CLIENT: Yeah. And there's a ton of resistance by like virgins and people who are like at like fancy colleges are like but, we're educated and in the norms and blah, blah, blah. And I'm just like don't care.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: And like, you know, the most, the worst thing that it is worse to imply that I might have been racist and that I did a racist thing.

THERAPIST: Yeah. I would imagine hearing a white person talk about how they're not racist is this kind of horrifying and... [00:36:50]

CLIENT: Yeah.

THERAPIST: Immediately means you don't ever want to talk to them about that kind of thing, ever.

CLIENT: Yeah. And, you know, I definitely know people who I'm like oh, didn't know that about you too now?

THERAPIST: Sure.

CLIENT: Good job.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And that can often lead in to other things. Like, there's someone I know who I'm not really close to her. So, she had some camala (sp?). As it turns out, a lot of like, there's a lot of gender centralism in her frame and uniformism in her spiritual beliefs which was, which I found out or whether which actually Ashley found out to his disappointment. So, Ashley's been transitioning and Joanne lost her shit. And they were living, like they were literally neighbors. So, that was really awkward.

THERAPIST: Yeah. [00:38:00]

CLIENT: And, her husband also is, can be really, really racist about things and he has this, he's like well, I'm not from America, so it's just like, it's just different than that.

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: And also the fact that he makes a ton of money means that she can sort of fuck around doing things. So, she has said a lot of really awful, well meant things about like how she's not gender essentialist and she's totally feminist and she's totally supportive of transgender people and she's not a racist. Like, on and on. And then she'll say things and I'm just like you are, like, you're kind of, like, it's not even that you're horrible. Although, what you're saying is horrible. It's that you've insulated yourself so well.

THERAPIST: Yeah. [00:39:25]

CLIENT: That you don't even know.

THERAPIST: Right. Yeah. I mean if I follow you the truth is varied dependent against your idea of how she can be?

CLIENT: Yeah. You know, she, like she's a very close minded person and for a while she also at per dom and did like I think the worship sessions or something. So, for a while her job was, you know.

THERAPIST: Was it per dom being professional?

CLIENT: Professional.

THERAPIST: Dominatrix.

CLIENT: Yeah. Yeah. So, that was like kind of her job for a little bit. Not really. So, you know, the job included people telling her she was right a lot. And, so, because her and her husband have money and because of her particular spiritual interests are very white. And her social circle is very white. She, and not just white. It's like upper middle class. Well educated. Able bodied white people who have mostly strayed but occasionally call each other. Very, pretty much gender normative, but there's like certain allowed gender variations that like aren't really. Like, a guy in a kilt might be okay at a party, but, you know, you can't have a guy wearing a dress. [00:41:00]

THERAPIST: Right.

CLIENT: That would just be horrible.

THERAPIST: Yeah. Yeah. I'm trying to think if there's a word for the kind of value of thinking of one's self as kind of enlightened. Sounds like there's kind of a lot of that?

CLIENT: Oh, she thinks she's very enlightened.

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: And part of that I think that she wants. I think she feels kind of bad that her husband is supporting her in her household. So, that means that whatever spiritual stuff she's doing has to be super. Like, I think, like in her head, she's contributing, you know.

THERAPIST: I see.

CLIENT: $40,000 a year worth of spirituality. So, she was, she, I just have super tendency to other, to treat people who are not like her as very hovering I think you could say. She blogged about having a blind client and how it was just so confusing and difficult to try and talk about and speak and she's like it was so confusing that I didn't know what to do. I'm like you talk to the blind person. That's pretty much it. [00:42:40]

THERAPIST: Yeah.

CLIENT: Like, it doesn't really matter if like and she's just like oh, god some interesting blind people. It's fascinating. Blah, blah, blah. And I'm like oh, my God.

THERAPIST: Just kind of gross.

CLIENT: It really was. It really was.

THERAPIST: We'll stop.

CLIENT: Okay. Thank you.

THERAPIST: Sure.

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